Moving with Children procedures and considerations

Hi, it would be easiest if you get an official letter, from a lawyer, stating that you have full consent to leave the country with your child and that the father gives all rights of decisions of the child to you. The Maltese are very hot on child abduction and most of the formalities are in place to prevent that. Once you have an official letter, then you won't need his signature for anything and enrollment into school will be straight forward.

There are two threads for this same question........Agreed and not just from Malta that issues could arise but depending upon the terms of any agreements with the father and considering his rights (without knowing the history) generally, you may need his permission to remove the child from Bulgaria. I would check up at the Bulgarian end first to prevent issues arising, under Bulgarian or EU law, later.
Then sort out Malta.

redmik wrote:

There are two threads for this same question........Agreed and not just from Malta that issues could arise but depending upon the terms of any agreements with the father and considering his rights (without knowing the history) generally, you may need his permission to remove the child from Bulgaria. I would check up at the Bulgarian end first to prevent issues arising, under Bulgarian or EU law, later.
Then sort out Malta.

Believe it or not, the Uk are not so concerned. There you don't need 2 signatures for the passport, only one signature for starting school and no evidence what so ever that you have custody of the child to claim benefit!!

The reason I mentioned it is that sometimes one parent will remove a child without permission (though that does depend upon agreements and any orders made in the child's country of birth). That can and sometimes does lead to nasty legal proceedings.

redmik wrote:

The reason I mentioned it is that sometimes one parent will remove a child without permission (though that does depend upon agreements and any orders made in the child's country of birth). That can and sometimes does lead to nasty legal proceedings.

Yes I realised that, which is why I said Malta is very hot on that unlike the UK that don't have any safe guards for this, at all! You just turn up with the child, no questions asked, if you have their birth certificate, that matches your surname, that's it. No reference to whether you have custody of that child. Then yes, very lengthy proceedings through the Hague Convention to have the child returned. At least Malta has safe guards in place to reduce the chance of that happening.

For international travel with a minor child (under 16 years of age) accompanied by one parent only (or other adult) one needs the following to satisfy international rules and local immigrations laws in most countries:

1.  Notarized letter of permission to travel from the other parent(s) which outlines such things as proposed date of departure and return, full name of adult and child, identifying information such as passport number, address where child will normally reside in destination, contact numbers for both parents; or

2.  If the letter mentioned above is unavailable then one requires an order of a competent Court of Law allowing travel; or

3.  Order granting sole custody to the parent who is traveling with the minor; or

(note that in most countries planning to move outside the jurisdiction is grounds for the Courts to review custody and revert any former Court Orders should the move be challenged)

4.  Death certificate of the other parent; and

5.  Valid passport for child; and

6.  Valid visa(s) as required, including Transit Visas where necessary; and

7.  Any other such documents that may be necessary for entry such as vaccination records, return or outward bound ticket, etc.

In most cases you would not even pass through airport or other point of entry/exit security without such documents and likely would not even be permitted by the lines to board the aircraft or vessel or other means of transportation.

This is certainly the case with most countries that have ratified the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction. Regarding entry, many countries may even have more stringent requirements so it is always wise to check with their Consulate to obtain a full and up to date list of their requirements for entry with a minor child.

Cheers,
James         Expat-blog Experts Team

James wrote:

For international travel with a minor child (under 16 years of age) accompanied by one parent only (or other adult) one needs the following to satisfy international rules and local immigrations laws in most countries:

1.  Notarized letter of permission to travel from the other parent(s) which outlines such things as proposed date of departure and return, full name of adult and child, identifying information such as passport number, address where child will normally reside in destination, contact numbers for both parents; or

2.  If the letter mentioned above is unavailable then one requires an order of a competent Court of Law allowing travel; or

3.  Order granting sole custody to the parent who is traveling with the minor; or

(note that in most countries planning to move outside the jurisdiction is grounds for the Courts to review custody and revert any former Court Orders should the move be challenged)

4.  Death certificate of the other parent; and

5.  Valid passport for child; and

6.  Valid visa(s) as required, including Transit Visas where necessary; and

7.  Any other such documents that may be necessary for entry such as vaccination records, return or outward bound ticket, etc.

In most cases you would not even pass through airport or other point of entry/exit security without such documents and likely would not even be permitted by the lines to board the aircraft or vessel or other means of transportation.

This is certainly the case with most countries that have ratified the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction. Regarding entry, many countries may even have more stringent requirements so it is always wise to check with their Consulate to obtain a full and up to date list of their requirements for entry with a minor child.

Cheers,
James         Expat-blog Experts Team

That might be the law but through experience this is NOT the case.

[moderated]
All one needs is a certified copy of any order or agreement specifying permission to take child out of the country and which gives parental control to the parent taking the child.
I know..................through experience.

[moderated] have you checked the reguations listed by TSA or other countries regarding travel with minor children? As I stated in the posting, most countries that have ratified the Hague Convention require these documents. Maybe you should see what they require in Canada, it goes way beyond that, and would scare your pants off, or maybe Brazil's requirements, or those of the USA. 

Whenever anyone travels internationally with minor children they would do well to have more documentation than they need. It will avoid being detained by immigrations officials at a point of entry should the ask for them, and they can't be produced.

Maybe Malta hasn't ratified the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction, or has even heard of it.... who know? Many countries have, and take its provisions very seriously. Perhaps you should read it.

BTW, exactly when was it that you last traveled (unaccompanied) internationally with one of your grandchildren or great grandchildren? Do you have any personal experience on the subject?

Don't forget, you must also consider the requirement of the country you're leaving as well.

http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act=co … amp;cid=24

Cheers,
James        Expat-blog Experts Team

Quote. BTW, exactly when was it that you last traveled (unaccompanied) internationally with one of your grandchildren or great grandchildren? Do you have any personal experience on the subject?

A personal question of no relevance but yes I have.
And I did mention requirements of the country travelling from.
And I cannot remember the last time I or any member of my family was checked for vaccination certificates.
(Except for the Maldives, America, Canada and Belize.)

redmik wrote:

All one needs is a certified copy of any order or agreement specifying permission to take child out of the country and which gives parental control to the parent taking the child

And isn't that essentially exactly what is contained in the information I posted, and the alternatives if it is not available? (Moderated)

Whilst me and redmik have our own personal differences , i am really not sure on this occasion James on how you can offer information on bringing children into Malta when you haven't , i don't know what is required - i took my niece to France but i wouldn't assume the procedures for France applied to Malta although they are more likely too as they are both EU countries.

Hello robpw2,

If you take the time to read my original posting I clearly was stating what is required by MOST countries (especially those that have ratified the Hague Convention) all of the information that I stated is on numerous websites (some of them governmental) all over the world and easily accessible.

None of the information is "specific" to any particular country, but rather a general guideline for anyone traveling internationally with minor children. They are also just plain old common sense things too, there is nothing more annoying that being detained at an airport if and when immigrations officials somewhere ask you to produce something you don't have, until they clear up their doubts.

Just because one person isn't asked to produce their documentation, or hasn't been asked for everything on the list, does not mean that they cannot or will not be at some point, or that others won't be. Try passing through Canada or Brazil without a Transit Visa and ALL of those documents and see what happens, even though they may not be your country of destination. You don't want to even think about the headaches that's going to cause.

Please do a Google search on "unaccompanied international travel with minors", if you find ANYTHING that I stated to be incorrect please, I'm all ears.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

The question was specific regarding travel from Bulgaria to Malta. Let's keep it specific shall we and not confuse the issues with general  information? That's my point; specific questions require specific answers relevant to Malta (moderated)

But you haven't bothered to read my posts James, that tells you the requirements of Malta and my personal experience that the UK do not give 2 hoots where the child comes from or who has rights over said child BUT Malta does, hence why I posted the requirements (although I know the person is coming from Bulgaria) Malta is in the Hague Convention, Uk too and Malta take it seriously when it comes to Maltese children leaving, not so serious to foreign children leaving.

coxf0001 wrote:

But you haven't bothered to read my posts James,

I did read your post. I have given you the recommendations of almost every governmental agency involved with immigrations. These are the documents that can be demanded anywhere. It's up to you what you do. You are prepared for ANYTHING that they could possibly ask you to produce or you accept whatever the consequences or inconvenience of not doing so may be. I know I sure wouldn't want to sit in detention somewhere for a couple of hours while they sorted things out and found out I really did have the right to travel with a child. Remember, they won't even give you an apology or compensate you in any way... they're just doing their job.

It's up to you.

Sorry, I gave you the complete list; . Go with whatever feels good!

I quite agree with coxf0001. Answers should be presented in the context within which the questions are asked. This question was about Bulgaria to Malta, not worldwide!!

Dear members,

I would like to thank everyone here for their contributions. We are all here, on this forum to help others to find information on their project.

So, can we please stop your debate and argument and try to help the author woqii with her questions? Can we now concentrate on the initial topic?

Thank you,
Christine
Expat.com team

The answers are:
Get an official letter, from a lawyer, stating that you have full consent to leave the country with your child and that the father gives all rights of decisions of the child to you. Or
All one needs is a certified copy of any order or agreement specifying permission to take child out of the country and which gives parental control to the parent taking the child.
Once you have an official letter, then you won't need the father's signature for anything and enrolment into school will be straight forward.

redmik wrote:

The answers are:
Get an official letter, from a lawyer, stating that you have full consent to leave the country with your child and that the father gives all rights of decisions of the child to you. Or
All one needs is a certified copy of any order or agreement specifying permission to take child out of the country and which gives parental control to the parent taking the child.
Once you have an official letter, then you won't need the father's signature for anything and enrolment into school will be straight forward.

And it all needs to be in English !!!

Terry

Yes, thanks Terry, I forgot to include that. 

My fiancee will be joining me in Malta this coming March, we have arranged for marriage in Valetta, she will arrive with her 2 daughters, one child is deaf and dumb aged 19, she receives a monthly pension for her condition and is therefore self sufficient, her 2nd daughter is now 15 years and will continue her education in Malta. My fiancee has a document signed by the supreme court to have full custody of the child, is this sufficient documentation for the Maltese authorities or will she also need a letter from a lawyer stating that she can bring her out of her home country.

I am a British National living in Malta.

I would say that as she has full custody, (rather than shared) nothing else is required.

I'm not so sure Redmik, she might still need consent to leave the country, Having full custody doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have access to see her and therefore may not be able to leave. Also, whether it is okay or not, Maltese culture tends to have 'involved' dads and they can't always get their heads around having one parent make all the decisions. So it might save hassle to have something in writing.

Fair comment regarding Maltese culture (and their interpretation and application of the law)  better safe than sorry.

Please could someone give me some advice regarding moving my children aged 10 & 11 during the school year.
My partners employer would like him to start earlier than we first thought, meaning we may need to move very soon but my daughter is meant to be sitting her SATs in May, do you know if they do SATs in Malta and if it would make an impact on school if she did them or not over here? It's the only thing delaying our move.
Also how the healthcare system works out there?

Samantha x :-)

Most of the time the standard procedure requires a lawyer formal letter in which the other parent consents the traveling or moving or whatever. This since in many countries the kidnapping charges against one relative exist. So, better safe than sorry. Anyway, it's something very simple and probably wont take more thn 15 minutes to your lawyer

Hello all,

Would it be correct to say that if a child is 16yrs old there would be no need for dual signatures should he want to reside in Malta?

Thanks...most appreciate some enlightenment..

eurobel wrote:

Hello all,

Would it be correct to say that if a child is 16yrs old there would be no need for dual signatures should he want to reside in Malta?

Thanks...most appreciate some enlightenment..

I can not say for sure but the legal age of consent is 18 here and technically they are still children at 16.

A child is a child until aged 18 years. (The age of consent is a different thing.) Dual signatures? That depends upon your arrangements/orders etc regarding care of the child and custody etc.
Be on the safe side have a legal agreement drawn up.

Samantha oreilly wrote:

Also how the healthcare system works out there?
Samantha x :-)

Click and read the link below but also if your husband is working then you and your family are covered by his SS payments. You could if desired also take out health insurance.

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=370643

redmik wrote:

A child is a child until aged 18 years. (The age of consent is a different thing.) Dual signatures? That depends upon your arrangements/orders etc regarding care of the child and custody etc.
Be on the safe side have a legal agreement drawn up.

Until they are 18, technically they can not be seen by a doctor without the parents consent, can not report a crime committed to themselves without the parents consent (including rape.) They can not leave home until they are 18 or leave the country without their parents consent. Unlike the UK for example, where all of the above things can be done at 16...The UK age of consent.

Agreed but age of maturity and age of consent are two different things.
The age of consent is the age at which a person is considered to be legally competent to consent to sexual acts, and is thus the minimum age of a person with whom another person is legally permitted to engage in sexual activity.
The status of maturity is distinguished by the shift away from reliance on guardianship and the oversight of an adult in decision-making acts.

The age at which a child may make some decisions or their wishes attended to, in law, is open to interpretation and 'testing' in the UK. For example, 'Gillick competence' is a term originating in England and is used in medical law to decide whether a child (16 years or younger) is able to consent to his or her own medical treatment, without the need for parental permission or knowledge. It is also used in childcare disputes and other issues regarding a child's rights.
A child of 16 years has the right to live anywhere, unless it can be proven that they are at risk of serious harm. Then, certain actions may be taken to prevent harm to that child which would override the child's wishes.

We also have, out here, the paradox in which a child may be married at 16 years of age but the age of consent is 18 years. Technically then a child who marries ate age 16 years cannot have sexual relations with their husband/wife and if their husband/wife is over 18 years then they are committing a sexual offence. A subject of current debate.

Thank you all for your input...yes been doing alot of homework and its complicated...much appreciate yr time