Thieves

I would welcome a thieve try to steal from me. Yeah I have anger issues I need to take it out on someone. My wife says they work in gangs with spotters everywhere but I say fine I will take them all on in a public place.

Both my wife and my Vietnamese housekeeper have been the victims of attempted motorcycle snatch and grabs (both failed because the straps broke and they were holding the bags in front of them not hanging by their sides). My wife has since switched to a smaller bag with straps running inside her clothing rather than outside. My housekeeper fell off her bike when attacked but luckily was relatively unhurt.

I have Russian friends whose homes were broken into and ransacked and others that had laptops and iphones snatched out of their hands or taken at the beach within reach of their hands by fast running individuals that leapt onto their accomplices motorcycle to escape before they could catch up to them.

Take care and don't wave expensive goods too far from your body or wear expensive necklaces (choking risk if they try to snatch and it does not break). Put money away before you leave the restaurant and count the money inside the bank or ATM, not out in the street. Don't use your phone on the edge of the road or while crossing the street. This just offers them opportunities for a snatch. This is a poor country and they are quite desperate to get your goods. 

Stay calm and if possible try to get a photo or call attention to the thief. These gangs are not so well organised as you think and the police will happily find and jail them if you can provide a positive id.

Crime hits all cities, so take precautions but don't live in fear. This city is no better or worse than most others. At least most of these are non-weapon using crimes.

And most often the thieves are skinny little guys so if caught you can crush them with your pinkies.

With average incomes ranging from Banking - 7.6-million VND/month; Pharmacy - 7-million VND/month; jobs like Textile or Food Industry workers 2.1 to 2.3-million VND/month; secretaries - 2 to 2.5-million VND/month it is hardly surprising when a Foreigner flashing a iThingy that costs VND13,900,000 gets robbed.

If you want to flash your bling, go to Bangkok or HongKong. Apart from the stupidity of flaunting wealth unnecessarily, it is also considered rude - you are, in the main, guests.

I have every sympathy with the desperately poor or unemployed trying to get something, anything to make life a little more bearable. I used to get POV video of CGST/Cong An soliciting bribes, even got a couple fired. Now I don't - I have seen just how poor off some government employees are - I have visited the homes of two CGST officers. I saw no signs of wealth; I did see threadbare furniture, old appliances, tube TV (no flat-screen).

In the past 22-years I have lost one T-shirt. Period.

I help out at a food kitchen once a month. That's where you stare poverty in the face. Where we erected a canvas walled shower outside so people could clean themselves up with a hosepipe.

You won't find the down and outers in tourist areas - they get scooped by the Cong An and sent to the nut-shelling jails for a month. Out in the other parts of the city they are much more common.

And you can take precautions: nothing in your back pockets; don't clean your motorcycle (old looking motorcycles rarely get stolen); have belt-hanging pouches for your cell handset, etc. so you can keep your hands free to fight off any would be thieves.

Never let anyone, including children, near your person unless you know them. Walk against the prevailing crowd on sidewalks, walk close to the stores and not the kerb, walk against the traffic - facing oncoming vehicles - making it difficult for motorcycle thieves.

Be aware of your surroundings, playing with your electronics and losing situational awareness is dumb. If you MUST make a call, lean against a pole with the handset between you and the pole. Or sit down, get a coffee and make your calls.

A couple of years ago I was taking a Mother and her child to Long An. We were stopped at a light near Pasteur and Ham Nghi at 04.35H. A motorcyclist pulls up and stops to one side behind us - a common move for thieves. Light goes to green, I turn across the thief's escape route, he misses grabbing the woman's bag, and enters the intersection at the very moment a Vinasun taxi runs a red light. The thief is knocked over, he was reported dead in the papers, the Vinasun taxi took off like a rocket and we drove on to Long An.

I guess American police would call it justifiable homicide!

Jaitch wrote:

With average incomes ranging from Banking - 7.6-million VND/month; Pharmacy - 7-million VND/month; jobs like Textile or Food Industry workers 2.1 to 2.3-million VND/month; secretaries - 2 to 2.5-million VND/month it is hardly surprising when a Foreigner flashing a iThingy that costs VND13,900,000 gets robbed.

If you want to flash your bling, go to Bangkok or HongKong. Apart from the stupidity of flaunting wealth unnecessarily, it is also considered rude - you are, in the main, guests.

I have every sympathy with the desperately poor or unemployed trying to get something, anything to make life a little more bearable. I used to get POV video of CGST/Cong An soliciting bribes, even got a couple fired. Now I don't - I have seen just how poor off some government employees are - I have visited the homes of two CGST officers. I saw no signs of wealth; I did see threadbare furniture, old appliances, tube TV (no flat-screen).

In the past 22-years I have lost one T-shirt. Period.

I help out at a food kitchen once a month. That's where you stare poverty in the face. Where we erected a canvas walled shower outside so people could clean themselves up with a hosepipe.

You won't find the down and outers in tourist areas - they get scooped by the Cong An and sent to the nut-shelling jails for a month. Out in the other parts of the city they are much more common.

And you can take precautions: nothing in your back pockets; don't clean your motorcycle (old looking motorcycles rarely get stolen); have belt-hanging pouches for your cell handset, etc. so you can keep your hands free to fight off any would be thieves.

Never let anyone, including children, near your person unless you know them. Walk against the prevailing crowd on sidewalks, walk close to the stores and not the kerb, walk against the traffic - facing oncoming vehicles - making it difficult for motorcycle thieves.

Be aware of your surroundings, playing with your electronics and losing situational awareness is dumb. If you MUST make a call, lean against a pole with the handset between you and the pole. Or sit down, get a coffee and make your calls.

A couple of years ago I was taking a Mother and her child to Long An. We were stopped at a light near Pasteur and Ham Nghi at 04.35H. A motorcyclist pulls up and stops to one side behind us - a common move for thieves. Light goes to green, I turn across the thief's escape route, he misses grabbing the woman's bag, and enters the intersection at the very moment a Vinasun taxi runs a red light. The thief is knocked over, he was reported dead in the papers, the Vinasun taxi took off like a rocket and we drove on to Long An.

I guess American police would call it justifiable homicide!

hahahha, for the moneys you mention, you can't even hire a part time cleaner here in NT.

My wife and most of the factory workers in Binh Duong Industrial area make around $6 mil VND. Just goes to show the discrepancy in getting an education doesn't pay all too well.

l3ully wrote:

hahahha, for the moneys you mention, you can't even hire a part time cleaner here in NT.

No no, sometimes it's right. My salary (a lecturer in a university) is lower than a housekeeper, 4mils. Poor me!
I am more luckily than some my friends, I can teach so much. Some my friends, they even don't have enough classes to teach, because there are many lecturers in their university. They must find many classes in other ones.
Salary of Vietnamese teachers with some subjects are lower than me!

My cousin is a university professor with a masters in electronic engineering from Thailand. 13 years ago he was making about $4 mil vnd. Don't know about now but he takes on lots of side projects to supplement his income.

But still I believe education is the way to go in Vietnam long term. As the economy improves the wage gap between professional jobs and non professional will widen with demand for people educated in certain fields of study.

l3ully wrote:

hahahha, for the moneys you mention, you can't even hire a part time cleaner here in NT.

These were averaged country-wide figures which means they would be higher in the cities and lower in rural areas.

One of my students, with a degree in finance, got a job with VietInBank - first job - where he is paid VND3,500,000/month to go out and solicit loans business (do you need money). He has VND400,000,000 at his disposal.

Another student is an automotive electronics technician and earns VND6,500,000/month; yet another is a Customer Service supervisor at a large supermarket near the FV Hospital where she earns VND3,500,000 (she was offered a 'promotion' for assistant store manager with an increase of VND1,000,000 provided she slept with a senior person - I have a copy of her iThingy recording); another student is a senior Order Processing Clerk who gets VND3.600,000/month.

VNese employers are despised as the are generally tight-wads, Foreign employers are preferred but generally they require employees to speak English as they use pay scales influenced by the overseas parental companies.

Remember, the majority of employees are 'off the books' - cash - so no tax is paid by them or their employers who also gain by not having to pay 'social taxes' such as health, etc.

With salaries like this who can blame them by supplementing their incomes with theft, etc.? I don't, as long as the people they steal from don't include me but do include PMH residents!

perhaps a bit off topic from the OP's post, but since we're at salaries, here's an interesting article comparing salaries, with Vietnam Airlines pilots netting around 200mil/month, compared to others, such as the prime minister for example with only 17mil/month (found that one quite interesting...)

anyway here's the article: http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/busine … earn-.html

How much do Vietnamese pilots really earn?

VietNamNet Bridge – Like colleagues in many other countries in the world, Vietnamese pilots are very well paid. According to the national flag air carrier Vietnam Airlines, a captain of the airline can receive VND200 million a month.

This salary, according to Sohanews, a website run by VC Corporation, is 11 times higher than the salary paid to the Prime Minister (VND17.1 million).

The monthly salary is equivalent to a 14-month income of a Vietnamese minister (VND14.4 million). And it is 20-29 times higher than the salary of a Vietnamese professor or associate professor (VND7-10 million).

A captain just needs to work one month to get enough money to buy the Indian car Tata Nano, two Rolex watches (VND100 million each), two 65-inch TVs, three Vespa scooters and 11 iPhone 6s.

This sum of money would be a fortune for a poor family because it is enough to buy 13.5 tons of rice, an amount that could feed a four-member family for 4,104 days, or 11.25 years.

It is enough to buy 13,333 loaves of bread. Suppose that a person eats one loaf of bread per day, then the amount of bread would be enough for 36.5 years.

Mot The Gioi quoted foreign journals as reporting that the salaries of Vietnam Airlines' pilots receive are equal to, or a little higher, than the average level in the world.

Pro Pilot, a journal which carries out an annual survey on professional pilots' incomes, has released a report, showing that in 2014, the lowest income level was $33,000 per annum and the highest was $259,000, paid to a management post.

Also according to the journal, a chief pilot can earn $41,000-195,000 a year. The average pay level globally is $103,000, or VND2.1 billion a year.

There are three pay levels applied to Vietnam Airlines' pilots. Those who pilot ATR 72 planes receive VND1.4 billion a year and will receive VND1.5 billion from July 2015. Pilots flying Airbus 321 aircraft now receive VND1.7 billion and will receive VND1.9 billion.  Those who fly Boeing 777 and Airbus 330 are paid VND2 billion and will be paid VND2.1 billion.

The pilots-instructors receive VND2.4 billion and will get 2.6 billion, figures which are believed to be much higher than the average level of pilots worldwide.

A tax officer noted that the money Vietnam Airlines' pilots can pocket is much higher than their colleagues in European countries, such as Belgium and Germany, where the income tax is at 42-50 percent.

Pham Ngoc Minh, general director of Vietnam Airlines, also said that Vietnam Airlines' pilots' incomes are not low as people think.

“The VND200 million a month income is higher than the pay to professors, doctors and workers in other business fields,” Minh said.

Jaitch wrote:

With average incomes ranging from Banking - 7.6-million VND/month; Pharmacy - 7-million VND/month; jobs like Textile or Food Industry workers 2.1 to 2.3-million VND/month; secretaries - 2 to 2.5-million VND/month it is hardly surprising when a Foreigner flashing a iThingy that costs VND13,900,000 gets robbed.

If you want to flash your bling, go to Bangkok or HongKong. Apart from the stupidity of flaunting wealth unnecessarily, it is also considered rude - you are, in the main, guests.

I have every sympathy with the desperately poor or unemployed trying to get something, anything to make life a little more bearable. I used to get POV video of CGST/Cong An soliciting bribes, even got a couple fired. Now I don't - I have seen just how poor off some government employees are - I have visited the homes of two CGST officers. I saw no signs of wealth; I did see threadbare furniture, old appliances, tube TV (no flat-screen).

In the past 22-years I have lost one T-shirt. Period.

I help out at a food kitchen once a month. That's where you stare poverty in the face. Where we erected a canvas walled shower outside so people could clean themselves up with a hosepipe.

You won't find the down and outers in tourist areas - they get scooped by the Cong An and sent to the nut-shelling jails for a month. Out in the other parts of the city they are much more common.

And you can take precautions: nothing in your back pockets; don't clean your motorcycle (old looking motorcycles rarely get stolen); have belt-hanging pouches for your cell handset, etc. so you can keep your hands free to fight off any would be thieves.

Never let anyone, including children, near your person unless you know them. Walk against the prevailing crowd on sidewalks, walk close to the stores and not the kerb, walk against the traffic - facing oncoming vehicles - making it difficult for motorcycle thieves.

Be aware of your surroundings, playing with your electronics and losing situational awareness is dumb. If you MUST make a call, lean against a pole with the handset between you and the pole. Or sit down, get a coffee and make your calls.

A couple of years ago I was taking a Mother and her child to Long An. We were stopped at a light near Pasteur and Ham Nghi at 04.35H. A motorcyclist pulls up and stops to one side behind us - a common move for thieves. Light goes to green, I turn across the thief's escape route, he misses grabbing the woman's bag, and enters the intersection at the very moment a Vinasun taxi runs a red light. The thief is knocked over, he was reported dead in the papers, the Vinasun taxi took off like a rocket and we drove on to Long An.

I guess American police would call it justifiable homicide!

Jaitch is right, TRAVELLER 101 people. Don't blame the thieves or the city, blame ourselves for not being cautious.

Exactly..... I got ripped off by a well known Kiwi guy here in Hoi An.... I gave him $600usd for a machine, that he told me, he was the VN agent/distributor for... After a week or so, I asked for a receipt for the 600 bucks, that he had purchased the machine from Canada.. He gave me a screen dump/print of an email that he wrote him self, with false DHL delivery consignment numbers.... And, as the lies continued, I contacted the company in Canada...... They had never heard of this fucker, and there was no machine on the way to Vietnam..... I followed this prick to the petrol station and pulled a boning knife on him, in front of maybe 20+ VN people at the petrol pump, and gave him 24 hours to return the money....... Sometimes the ex-pats are just as bad as the VN thieves.... (I did get the money back, eventually)
The Vietnamese call him, mặt đỏ, he's well known here...

Not sure what happened with my above post???
/!\ I AM A STUPID SPAMMER /!\    Errr, don't know where that came from.
I think I wrote "this Theif".... and it came out as /!\ I AM A STUPID SPAMMER /!\
Weird.........

The occasional anecdote of honesty warms the heart but they're rarities. 

I know maybe three Vietnamese I'd trust with my lunch money.  They'll steal anything.

When my grandmother passed away this year we had people guarding her casket and ceremonial stuff for lack of better words around the clock for 4 days straight.

Stealing those little religious statues you see in Vietnamese homes is common. My brother in law had one stolen.

I had my flip flops stolen few times at events. Probably because they are shredded and cheap in value. And they leave the expensive sandals untouched. Go figure the Vietnamese.

Worst I found is stealing the food offerings and incense candles.

khanh44 wrote:

I had my flip flops stolen few times at events.

Dumb tourists leave their backpacks outside HO Chi Minh's Mausoleum and expect them to be there when they return. Some people do the same with shoes.

Happens in Agara (India) and many other places. Just a footwear upgrade!

Watch the buses and trains, too. I never leave a bus or train when they pull in for a stay, When I used a bus earlier this week, I remained in the bus during a mandatory "make my friendly restaurant owner rich" stop.

I was sleeping and the door opened (push rubber button [under door handle]) and in creeps this guy. He checked a couple of sleeper beds and then he saw me and off he ran.

Use Tie Wraps on checked baggage - slows thieves down - and keep an eye on luggage lockers/coaches to make sure no one wants to 'upgrade' their suitcase whenever the bus/train stops. I use a chain and lock and secure my bags to any beam, etc. I see in a locker.

Better still, minimise your pricey stuff, use a toilet to get at your stash of big money or your iThingy. Don't insult your hosts by flashing your bling - they know you are rich. Do what US security firms say (for huge fees) - DRESS DOWN.

In my experience some of the most honest and most generous people are the poorest in society. A while ago I witnessed a tourist leave her purse on a chair. The vendors assistant ran after the woman and made her return to collect the purse that had been left, guarded, on the chair, untouched. I suggested she make a payment of hundred thousand Dong - her passport was in the purse along with her iThingy.

Shortly after I arrived here in VN, my Palm Pilot (that long ago) slipped out of my pocket whilst I was riding in a Vina Taxi (NOT VinaSun). The opening screen had a Canadian contact number and VinaTaxi called it and found out where I was staying. It was returned by the driver and his manager. My company has a 10% finders fee for a list of incidents and two very happy VinaTaxi employees left the hotel after they got the CAD$40 equivalent in Dong!

Repay honesty, and they will spread the word (maybe even kidnap your pet for a ransom!) but at least you get your goodies back.