Ecuador indigenous leader found dead days before planned Lima protest

The fact that there is no freedom of speech or press in Ecuador is not news.
The death penalty is harsher than most expected.
See what happens when you turn down bribes?

Maybe diving into the wider waters of these issues.....

Aren't the Chinese supposed to be funding a multi-billion dollar refinery outside of Manta for the purpose of processing this oil? Is the refinery under construction yet?

And won't such a refinery increase environmental degradation, not only drilling up the Amazon, but piping the oil over the Andes, and then polluting the coast? Anybody who has ever been in south Texas should know only too well what a nasty business oil refineries are. The whole thing would seem to lead from bad to worse....

I think none of it possible without Chinese investment, but if Ecuador just ends up owing all the money right back to the Chinese, where is the win?

What happens when you turn down bribes??  I haven't had this experience.

Four dead days before the Summit in Peru. The Tribal leaders speak for Nature and the petrol folks speak to bottom line. The profiteers would seemingly disregard our atmosphere and all living things on earth. I would think the majority of people on earth want their grandchildren to be able to breath but it is a question of majority rule or rule by Plutocracy.     

Should you not understand the word 'Plutocracy' you best read up on it do to the fact that it is about to replace 'Democracy'.

Regards ... Tom

Lev_Ant wrote:

What happens when you turn down bribes??  I haven't had this experience.

Read the story posted by Gardener

Amazing how people is being mislead... God save the poor foreigners who relocate to a host country they never really assimilate, where they want things done their way instead of the local way, those who dont even master Spanish to hear info directly from the source, in the original language and from every side of the story, those that are then sucked into political discussions that dont have to do with what their host country is about and only tend to reproduce the same fear, hatred and war rhetoric of their places of origin! Ecuador is such generous country... everybody can post anything they want, but as a breath of fresh air, luckily lying does gets you in trouble in Ecuador.
Anyways, my grandma used to say: "Honey, people take their 'miserability' every where they go. Thats part of freedom too". Now watch for a rain of censorship, hatred and resentment to come down.. "unhappy people hates happiness", grandma knew it well, and she knew what to do when things could be done to improve her surroundings Enjoy life, folks, it is short

"everybody can post anything they want, but as a breath of fresh air, luckily lying does gets you in trouble in Ecuador"

And who exactly determines whether you are lying in Ecuador?  Answer: Governmental minders appointed by President Correa.

Loving Ecuador wrote:

Amazing how people is being mislead... God save the poor foreigners who relocate to a host country they never really assimilate, where they want things done their way instead of the local way, those who dont even master Spanish to hear info directly from the source, in the original language and from every side of the story, those that are then sucked into political discussions that dont have to do with what their host country is about

Directly from the source? The source was the internationally respected newspaper, The Guardian UK, and the article was originally written in English by their latin American correspondents in Lima.

So I'm kind of stumped by your objection to that.

Then the article went on to describe various commodity extraction schemes and agreements between Ecuador and China. Did you find some inaccuracy there?

Did you read the article? Or are you just making random assumptions based on something your grandmother said?

Nards Barley wrote:

"everybody can post anything they want, but as a breath of fresh air, luckily lying does gets you in trouble in Ecuador"

And who exactly determines whether you are lying in Ecuador?  Answer: Governmental minders appointed by President Correa.

Isn't that always the problem? If you say, "I'm in favor of freedom of speech, but it should be illegal to lie," then somebody has to determine what is true and what isn't. And if that someone is a political appointee (and it generally is), then 'lying' will be defined as 'anything el jefe doesn't like."

How lovely. Quite gentle of you guys to have addressed my statements. I have seen and heard many inflated ego fights from foreigners to address local problems! you all seem quite sensitive instead. That was nice of you'all. Thank you! love, tolerance and respect build bridges.
It may have been more fun for many to go down the online political discussion road so that you can prove your points. I may disappoint you. There are lots of info we could all share about this one subject you wish to open, but I have always found it better to address them personally so please take my invitation to come over to the coast, and get together to talk. Sounds good? a lot more fun with the human interaction bonus...very Latin. You may benefit from that. In fact, havent you noticed how average Ecuadorians dont tend to follow up on online messages? They actually talk things over face to face
I know...me not helping your political cause here. Damn this Loving, you must prove that you are right and you see tyranny in Ecuador, you need to create confusion, and best if done online, in the comfort of your home. Then for those of you living here...what the heck are you doing living in a dictatorship? cant you find a better place to live?
And for those not yet here please...dont come. It is NOT going to work for you. For all the reasons you believe. By all means. Stay where you are.
The reality is that the people who know local history from the Latin American view point, are not engaging in online political debates. They are busy getting organized, working together and integrating towards new regional alliances thanks to the acceptance of the majority. They have a plan, a vision, a strategy, they are not invading/bombing/looting other countries to achieve their goals and they are certainly NOT engaging in political discussions. They see positive where others sit down to criticize and complain.
They dont need a guy in Peru to write in English for its UK news source about an Ecuadorian reality. Stories have always been written by the people with the money to print their versions, but that doesnt mean they are legit... would you buy what a Haitian have to say about life in Congo through a Malaysian news paper? in Arabic? lol...

While the rest of us...well, we actually live in Ecuador. We have seen the changes, we know where it comes from and where it goes.. oh and BTW we see increasing FDI, new trade alliances (oh yeah, China, Qatar, Canada, Colombia..please..bring the infrastructure we will start creating in the long term ourselves, and all with out taking our land for military bases to satisfy your geopolitical interests). We see increasing numbers of tourists, entrepreneurs and retirees too, somehow relocating into this "tyranny". God know sometimes we could keep some retirees well away for the sake of our communities, but we are an open country, and we treat our guests so well they actually come back in larger numbers. I just dont understand how they dont freak out with all they read in the "independent private media".
Other than that, according to you guys it seems anybody saying anything positive about Ecuador, is "paid for" LOL. I have heard the same psychological rhetoric before. No evidence, Just plain censorship and ridiculization. Nothing new under the sun. However, I must say I find it very unfair. Because if some out there do so, then boy.... I could certainly take some $$ from Correa for writing a personal viewpoint about life here thats happens to be positive...do any of you know how I can reach him? I should start the negotiation now...seriously.

gardener1 wrote:

Directly from the source? The source was the internationally respected newspaper, The Guardian UK, and the article was originally written in English by their latin American correspondents in Lima.

So I'm kind of stumped by your objection to that.

Then the article went on to describe various commodity extraction schemes and agreements between Ecuador and China. Did you find some inaccuracy there?

Did you read the article? Or are you just making random assumptions based on something your grandmother said?

He maintains that people in Ecuador know best, they are right on the scene.  How could foreigners know more?  Not unlike the Germans in the 1930's knowing what was best for Germany and the world.  Immigrants with perm res status and a cedula are not guests, but residents of said country.  They may live better and have a better life if they blend with the locals, but it is not required.  At my house when we have guests over we feed them and provide sleeping quarters, bathrooms etc.  Does Ecuador provide these to retirees?  Of course not, they are not guests, and in some instances they are charged gringo prices.  Is that any way to treat a guest?  Perhaps you could advocate changing the laws instead of changing the people.  The death penalty for disagreeing with the government is rather harsh.

My personal feeling, which certainly was not stated in the Guardian article, is that if/when Ecuador becomes inextricably indebted to China or any other foreign country for financial support - support which does seem to funding many projects that will benefit the Ecuadoran people - just like Shylock when the bill comes due the debt must be paid. And it may be paid in environmental degradation, with the lives of opposing minority peoples, in the pollution and degradation of their unique rainforest and coastal opulence. China will come around to demand its pound of flesh. At any cost to the borrower. And then the borrower must pay.

It's not hard to see how much China values the environment or the people or the natural resources when there is money to be made - that is, not at all. I have been in their country and I fondly refer to it as "hell on earth". If they trash Ecuador in the same way they have done to their own land, what do they care? Post-ravagement of Ecuador the Chinese will just move on to the next willing victim, the next desperate borrower.

It's not a bet that Ecuador will win.

Fortunately I hope to be long passed before the game plays itself out. But I still care bout the consequences I will never live to see.

gardener1 wrote:

It's not hard to see how much China values the environment or the people or the natural resources when there is money to be made - that is, not at all. I have been in their country and I fondly refer to it as "hell on earth". If they trash Ecuador in the same way they have done to their own land, what do they care? Post-ravagement of Ecuador the Chinese will just move on to the next willing victim, the next desperate borrower.

This is exactly what's happening here in Mauritius and I'm also seeing the same globally in Africa.  I assume it's the colonization scheme of the 21st century.  The Chinese are coming with their pile of money, helping building and financing infrastructure (which are not built at the highest standards) until they basically control the government's balance sheet.  They are using countries with amazing natural resources and cheap labor to source what they need for their own growth.  And they have to do it abroad, because as gardener stated, they can't do it in their own country because it's too polluted.  Try to have a 5 minutes jog in Beijing or Shangai.  It's simply impossible, you just can't breath the air.  Ecuador enjoys many beautiful natural treasures, it would be sad to see that disappear just because a shylock threatens us.

That is assuming this and the next EC admin will let China come and do as they please...Those who live here know that Ecuadorians are very proud people and more often than not, they refuse to negotiate under circumstances they consider negative for them, no matter the amount of money. The communities are strong. The fact that there was irreversible damage caused in the past by Chevron in the Ecuadorian forest, was precisely because there was no sovereign administration, just a handful of oligarc families tied to natural resources exports, keeping the people poor and the country in ruins to enrich themselves. So far the Chinese bring much needed development and technology to continue EC growth, we will see eventually what the EC people do about possible future polution.