I am starting to wonder why anyone moves to Brazil !!!!

Hi FloridaGuy,

No, I do agree with you on that point. Unfortunately, in the U.S, they do suffer from a deep-seeded racism, and I do not think that is the issue here. But I do think there is a prejudice here in Brazil as there exists in most countries.

LolaaLolitaa wrote:

Great comment. I haven't been here too long but I have seen similar things, regarding security workers, maids, servants usually being darker skinned.  I have also heard the same complaints from people in the South paying heavy taxes because of the "lazy" people in the North (referring to Bahia.)
I have yet to visit Rio or Sao Paolo, so I am not sure if the colour divide gets better once you hit the bigger cities.

A friend of mine who has lived in Brazil for four years now quipped how the big uproar in the US over the Mike Brown case or the Trayvon Martin case had little effect on her. She noted that in Rio, police kill thousands of black brazilian young people every year, significantly more than the US does

This article (theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/ferguson-missouri-michael-brown-brazil-rio-black-teenager-lucas-lima) is a good read if you have the time.

Thank you for sharing The Guardian article. I just read it, and yes, it just reiterates my point about the plight of blacks here in Brazil. 

This may sound very cliche, but when I first moved to Brazil about 6 months ago, my husband said that I needed to see Tropa de Elite and Tropa de Elite 2.    I saw both films and enjoyed both of them for what they were - interesting film-making. While I know that both films were semi-fictional or fictional accounts of what goes on in the favelas of Rio, my husband told me that many Brazilians saw these films and that they applauded the police brutality portrayed in the films as a necessary evil. The innocent that were killed along with the guilty were just collateral damage. Basically, the crime situation has gotten SO BAD in Brazil's major cities that many Brazilians turn a blind eye to to the poor that are killed every day in the streets. Whether the poor are killing each other or are being killed by the police, most Brazilians don't care because they believe the poor are the ones that commit the crimes and there are way too many poor people in their country, so basically, they are expendable. I'm generalizing, of course...but I don't think I'm that far off from the truth, am I?

In my opinion, POOR in this country basically equates to BLACK. Yes, there are poor whites in Brazil....but  POOR is basically synonymous with BLACK here...and many of the crimes are being committed by poor blacks. (When the whites freed their slaves, the slaves didn't have a whole lot of options, did they? Sure, they were now free, but they had no money, no education, and few opportunities...it's no wonder that the Brazilian criminal element is strongly associated with poor blacks.) So who is getting murdered every day? Poor Brazilians. Black Brazilians. Both innocent and guilty. And since the dead have no voice, the media sweeps the statistics under the rug...and life goes on in Brazil.

FloridaGuyinBR wrote:

Hi Lolaa
I'd sure like to know the circumstances of all these killings in Brasil. Is it drug related or just violence against Blacks ?
Still I believe the hatred towards blacks in the US is different. It's racist hate.
I am no expert on Brasil but I do know the general population as a whole doesn't HATE blacks. They don't treat them like trash like in the US. They may not associate with them but they don't HATE them.

How can white Brazilians hate a group of people that have no power? Don't you see that the racism here is worse than the racism back in the United States? Racism here is practically institutionalized.   Black Brazilians have zero power in this country. There are exceptions (soccer players, entertainers, etc) but the vast majority of blacks are poor and powerless. How many black doctors, lawyers, bankers, and professionals have you met here in Brazil? I know one. Just one. Every other black or dark-skinned Brazilian I've seen was a waiter, a maid, a security guard, or someone working in a menial job. American blacks have power. How many times have you heard a racist white American say that a black person was getting "uppity."  That's because American blacks do get "uppity" (I hate this word, but I'm using it to prove a point.) because they CAN. Here in Brazil, what do you think would happen to a black Brazilian who gets "uppity?" They'd lose their job, or worse...get killed...which is why they don't fight back. Why would whites hate a group of people who have ZERO POWER? No, instead, they just complain about how their tax dollars are going to help all the poor people in Bahia. I've never heard a white Brazilian say, "My tax dollars are going to help the BLACK people in Bahia." No, they always refer to the "POOR people in Bahia." But c'mon...we all know the racist inference is there. Sadly, these Brazilians that I'm referring to...are wonderful people...people that I've come to call my friends. I don't blame them...they are also a product of this society...a society that gives all power to the mighty white face...and none to the poor black face. I just had no idea that this was what Brazil was like...until I moved here. 

A little confusing.

I said American (US) whites HATE blacks. I did NOT say Brasilian whites HATE blacks.
This American (US) HATRED is cultural plus they think blacks are totally stupid and useless. Has nothing to do with their power or lack of it, even tho I agree with you that US blacks DO have power and representation.
YES some white (ish) Brasilians do hate their tax money going to help the 'under class'. I say white-ish because few Brasilans are pure white. BUT to say Brasilians HATE blacks here, I don't think so.

There are plenty of professional blacks; mayors, police, doctors, teachers.

Now, if you really look around, you will see that is NOT uncommon for a white guy to marry a black woman. Vice versa too. I see this all the time at the grocery store.

Some of best friends of all time here in Brasil were mulato or black. High quality genuine people and POOR.
My wife told me one time that a POOR person does not equate to a robber or thief, they're just POOR.
I agreed totally. Got lost in Sao Paulo after buying a car one time and ended up in some ugly looking neighborhoods. Stopped and asked for directions and had no problems.

FloridaGuyinBR wrote:

A little confusing.

I said American (US) whites HATE blacks. I did NOT say Brasilian whites HATE blacks.
This American (US) HATRED is cultural plus they think blacks are totally stupid and useless. Has nothing to do with their power or lack of it, even tho I agree with you that US blacks DO have power and representation.
YES some white (ish) Brasilians do hate their tax money going to help the 'under class'. I say white-ish because few Brasilans are pure white. BUT to say Brasilians HATE blacks here, I don't think so.

There are plenty of professional blacks; mayors, police, doctors, teachers.

Now, if you really look around, you will see that is NOT uncommon for a white guy to marry a black woman. Vice versa too. I see this all the time at the grocery store.

Some of best friends of all time here in Brasil were mulato or black. High quality genuine people and POOR.
My wife told me one time that a POOR person does not equate to a robber or thief, they're just POOR.
I agreed totally. Got lost in Sao Paulo after buying a car one time and ended up in some ugly looking neighborhoods. Stopped and asked for directions and had no problems.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I've tried to explain my stance in two different posts but now, I'm just tired of explaining.    Sorry. Nothing personal.

Yeah, you contradict yourself if you read it.

FloridaGuyinBR wrote:

Yeah, you contradict yourself if you read it.

No, I don't. I think your reading comprehension needs some work.

LolaaLolitaa wrote:

A friend of mine who has lived in Brazil for four years now quipped how the big uproar in the US over the Mike Brown case or the Trayvon Martin case had little effect on her. She noted that in Rio, police kill thousands of black brazilian young people every year, significantly more than the US does.

While your friend is quite correct that Brazilian police kill more suspects than do US Police, the "thousands" every year is a gross exaggeration, trust me. I have lived in Brazil for over 13 years now (in 5 different states) and in Rio for the past 3. I can tell you from personal experience that number simply is not true even if you added all the non-blacks to it the figure is nowhere near close. So you can't always believe what you hear, even from your friends.

Police in Brazil tend to kill more for a number of different reasons that for the most part don't exist in the USA either. Firstly they don't receive the kind of firearms training as in the US; where the greater part of the training is "when not to shoot" than actual marksmanship. In Brazil they hardly get any marksmanship training because their superiors claim they don't have the ammunition for it. (Believe it or not!!!). Secondly, unlike North American Police they are taught to shoot to kill, not shoot to disable or shoot to end the threat. Most US police will not shoot to kill unless the situation truly warrants it. It's not like that in Brazil, the concept of equal force does not exist here. Thirdly, police in Brazil kill more because for the most part there are absolutely no consequences for doing so, unlike in the USA. But, they don't single out any particular race or color here, trust me. This is also evident by the fact that so many of the officers involved here are themselves Afro-Brazilians.

Are more Afro-Brazilians killed each year, probably yes. But let's examine that further before we make wild assumptions about the figure. Approximately 75% of Brazil's prison population is made up of Afro-Brazilians. Yes, some of that is due to their socioeconomic situation and not getting great legal representation, but it is also largely due to the fact that they are proportionately more involved in criminality too. No judgements on this statement please, I'm just relating a fact here. If you look at it one way, they also make up the greater percentage of the population too, so it stands to reason they're going to make up an equally high portion of prison population too.

That said, most of the young Afro-Brazilian men that are killed each year in Brazil are killed by other young men, many of whom are also Afro-Brazilians. These killings are almost always linked to drug trafficking in some way and are perpetrated to settle scores, settle debts or disputes over turf.

One cannot compare Brazil to the United States, not ever and not in anything. They are two vastly different countries with two vastly different cultures and historical backgrounds. They could never be like each other in a million years. So you do Brazil and all Brazilians a great injustice if you try to compare.

Cheers,
James         Expat-blog Experts Team

Well said.....

The fact you said "Most US police will not shoot to kill unless the situation truly warrants it." makes me now question everything you ever posted lol.  I don't even really wanna turn it into a debate or change the subject at hand, cuz this is my last comment but...are you kidding me dude?  I'm not comparing which country is worst but you should choose your words wisely when trying to make reference and comparing something as serious as this topic.  Just saying... Police corruption in America towards black people is absolutely disgusting.  If being black and unarmed warrants deadly force then I guess you're right.  That's as honest as one can even begin to start that convo... you obviously have internet so the truth is there for you too.