Getting married, but have doubts...

I wish I didn't suffer from ADD because I really would of loved to have read all of this long arse post. 
Sounds like she has got a lot of bones in her closet and if you like sleeping in a cemetery then go ahead and marry her since you love her so much. But..... I have a feeling that if you do marry her you won't be for long or be happy having done so. Good Luck.

Yeah. Sorry for the long write up! But really need the advice how to cope. Really, any VN woman I meet could have bones in the closet. Same for men here. But have to admit after reading about others, some are great and some horrible. I just need to know how to cope with jealousy. Or how to bring this up. For a western woman, it's not difficult but for us, it's cultural and language barrier.

I appreciate you words. Really.

Can't say part of me is inclined not to agree with you!

Sorry dude but you're being taken for a ride. I've seen this many times over and, though it feels unique to you, this is a classic game. Your whole post is a warning sign. My guess is she has multiple boyfriends she's getting money from and you're just one of them. You need to stop making excuses for her actions and see them for what they are. What you think is jealousy is really your better judgment telling you to get the hell out of there.

Do me a favor, reread your post and pretend it was written by someone you didn't know. What would your opinion be?

I don't mean to be cruel but a blind lotto salesman can see what's happening here.

I usually don't comment on these types of topics because I see/hear about 100 stories like this everyday, and they're all the same. The truth of the matter is, all you need to do is take a look at the heading of your post, "Getting married, but have doubts", and that should be all the information you need to know. Cold feet is one thing; you are wise enough to know what you are going through is not cold feet. What would you say to a friend of yours if it was him that was going through this and not you? You would probably look at him like he was crazy for continuing on with the relationship. Don't be blinded by the situation. There are a lot of great girls in Vietnam. Not saying your fiance isn't one of them, but nothing she is doing would illustrate that she is. Quite the opposite actually

If in doubt - DON'T.

Problems always magnify if there are legal bonds between you and the other party.

Hi Fredgo.  Personally from reading that, I'd start running now.  I've had similar situations and they all turned to crap very quickly.  It's very hard to find a girl here that you are culturally compatible with and the relationship expectations are realistic .  I've known several older vietnamese women who have ALL said, " the woman here will never love YOU, they only like what you do for them and the family"  . They see you as a solution to a problem.  If the age gap is more than 15/20 years your kidding yourself.   A lot of older guys confuse lust with love.  They get " star struck" and flattered that a young pretty girl wants to marry them.  Some of them are very good actors and illusionists.
If your lonely and gullible your screwed.  Every wedding I've been to here has crashed .  Come to think of it....every wedding I went to back home turned to crap as well, including two of my own. Ha ha ...life can be interesting eh.  Good luck Fred.

@fredgo
Move on my friend at a great rate of knots as in running. You are being taken for a ride. She is playing on your jealousy which is driving you to distraction and unable to think rationally anymore.
Have nothing more to do with her.

In my 48+ years of coming, going and finally settling in Asia I have heard this story many times before.

Don't get all bitter and twisted over it. Move on. Take this as one of life's lessons and learn from it.

The ball is in your court now, your move.

I married a Vietnamese woman and brought her to the USA 5 years ago. Things have worked out well. We love each other and are very interested in each others culture. We work together as a team. We are thinking of moving back to VN in a few years and start another adventure over there. I can understand how you could fall for a VN woman, they have allot of the boxes checked that western women don't... HOWEVER,

From your post above, I don't think that your differences are cultural, I think they are gender based... I think she is playing you like a fiddle... I suggest that you continue to shop around. VN is full of beautiful women with allot less baggage. And besides... WHATS THE RUSH TO GET MARRIED? If you are not sure at this point...... You know what to do.

Oh man!
I feel giddiness 
Unfortunately no time for this loooooooooooooooooooong post 
You should write some blog.
May be dejavu.dot is suitable to answer your queries 
Em oi! come fast!

Too long dont read

pity post~

fredgo wrote:

Hi all,

I am new to this site, so bear with me.  To the point, I have finally met a woman in Viet Nam that I love truly.  In fact, I just spent 3 months with her in Nam Dinh and at the end I asked her to marry me.  She is divorced and 2 children from the husband and one from a man in the UK (he is Vietnamese). That said, I have some problems to cope with that maybe some can help me with about Viet Nam women.  First, when we initially started chatting back in December, it was crazy.  I almost felt like I could not keep up with chatting with her.  Then, in January, on a business trip, we met for the first time.  She flew down to Saigon to be with me.  Well, I didn't make a great impression.  I was 222 lbs. at 5'-9", the hotel I chose was from my shipping agency choice as it was convenient for traveling to my factory, I told her when I picked her up that I was on a budget (should not have done that), I wore football jersey's a lot (I am an FSU alum and we just won the NC and also been a Seahawks fan since 1982).  I wasn't really thinking.  Anyway, we were together for 4 days and then she went back home.  After she left, a couple of days later, we are chatting, and I start getting a different impression. By the way, she is drop dead gorgeous for Vietnamese standards and US.  Really.

The above things came up in our chats on Viber. I told her I was sorry and explained why.  Over time, she understands. But, a couple more days later, she sends me a message that her sister wanted her to marry an American man that my fiance had met.  She was tired, confused and a lot of stress as she put it.  I tried to understand, but, it's difficult when you think you are going right and why she would say such a thing.  Why even consider another?

I always try to stay awake as long as I can when I am heading home.  Helps me sleep on the flight back.  Well, a short time later, the night I was leaving for the US, I did another stupid thing.  For the first time in my life, I was jealous.  I looked at her facebook and on it, she had put pictures of her when we were together, but they didn't include me.  Some foreign guys posted on it that she was beautiful and other odd compliments.  I've always had the impression she is a depressive person because of her life story, so, maybe she posts pictures on facebook to get the compliments. Anyway, I commented on one of the pictures of how great it was we were together.  I did it solely to make sure others knew she was with me.  Now, I have to tell you, I hate jealousy.  It never works out and if you're jealous, best to depart.  Anyway, I wasn't thinking so clearly when I did it.

I finally got to sleep, and woke up 2 hours later to an angry message from her on my texts.  I did not think this through. I just thought of the guys and not her sister, mom, etc. Well, she blocked me right away.  Said you can't do that in Vietnam.  Not the same as US.  Her family knew she went to Saigon, and after my message, I guess she had to explain that.  Again, stupidity on my part and why I think jealousy is always bad.

I called her and apologized, but didn't say why I did it. Just that I was tired, and wasn't thinking clearly.

So, I go back to the US.

And I'm miserable.  She starts going through Tet festivities with family, and for the first time, I actually wished I was there for Tet.  I've been invited before, but always declined friends as thinking it was all family, and I'd be bored.  But, this time, I truly wished I was there and partaking in family events.  For through the rest of January to February, I was pretty miserable to say the least.  It was the first time I had a girlfriend that I felt all of these emotions and not know what to do.

She is a good and kind person.  During Tet, she would help others.  She had an aunt (disreputable in her family eyes) that was having a baby from "outside" the marriage.  Her mom and others would not take her in, but she did in her little tiny apartment.  This was during Tet.  Her aunt delivered and she was the only one to go to the hospital at 01:00 in the morning and help.  She even helped with the bill.  A few days later, her brother's wife was sick, so she went again, in the wee hours of the morning and took care of her.  And there are other things she does.  It may because she feels wrong because she has 3 kids and not married, so, she helps family because of this.

Then, I received a shipment one day in February.  While unloading it and sorting the orders out, we are texting on Viber.  She starts to tell me that she doesn't think I can make her life better.  Well, that really sucked.  I won't go into details here about that, because only thing that matters to my eventual question here is that she said it.  And has said it a few times since.

We kept chatting since then, and she finally unblocked me from facebook.  Really, I am crazy because I did not use facebook except for business until her.  I would check her out on there often. 

In February, we chatted more.  She told me how she had suitors last year and before, but she didn't like them or love them.  Including the American her sister wanted.  She told me bits and pieces about her husband and the UK guy, but not much.

In March, I decided I would go back to Vietnam on business, but this time, I would spend months there.  This time with the intent to show her she had the wrong impression.  So, from January to beginning of March, I lost 40 plus pounds.  She told me that she was happy about this (in her anger in January, she told me once she didn't want to see me unless I was a lot lighter, A LOT lighter).  Later, she said she wasn't serious but happy I lost the weight.  She would tell me not to lose it so quickly.  But, I wanted so much to show her the real me.  I had just let myself go the past couple of years.

So, I flew to Ha Noi, and took a taxi to Nam Dinh and was pleasantly surprised that she had the driver take me to her home.  That was big, because all she talked about was that I would not meet her family or friends, so, I fully expected to be directed to a hotel. When I met her at her home that first day, she also invited friends over and we had lunch.  It was great. She would tell me if I was tired, I could sleep on her bed, but I declined because I felt fine.

But the next day, always is, was hard, and when I was there, I did fall asleep on her bed.  She lives in a one bedroom style apartment (not like the US).  When I woke up, she was sitting at the edge of the bed and seemed sad.

I asked her what happened, and she told me her neighbors saw me and they were talking.  I apologized and understood.  As she took me back to my hotel, she started talking about how I could not make her life better.  Only now, in present times, I realize this is more about her escaping her current life.

Likely, as beautiful as she is, she had a plan for her life.  Her husband got hooked on gambling, and took out all of their money and family money (his).  She said at one point, he even went to prison for 3 years. I know Vietnam, and this is very difficult for a woman because she has 2 children.  After he got out of prison, he ended up getting into more trouble, and sold the last things they had.  I can imagine that the "bad guys" came to her for his debts too.

So, she divorced him.  And now lives in a small apartment and poor.  Not the life she probably imagined for herself and I can fully empathize with her situation.  No money, poor, work is bad (she is in the metal industry and family traded in metal).  Her father passed away 2 years ago, and they couldn't run the business.  They borrowed money from the bank, but for whatever reason, they lost it all.  I know she works in this industry from many pictures from her and facetime while she was working last December.

Then, there is this second guy that I only know he is from the UK, and she got pregnant.  This has always bothered me because I know Vietnam culture and I know that if you have unprotected sex, you will get pregnant.  The fact she is older, had 2 already and was single and still did this, well, it bothers me to this day.  She only tells me that he wanted to marry her, but he was "irresponsible" and didn't want him.  He has offered to marry her, still loves her.  she told me in the months before I proposed to her that he was married.  So, I had hoped that what happened was he was a liar and was married.  But, in the last month, she told me he had a girlfriend and child in the UK and would leave them to be with her.  So, I really don't know the real story.  Married or girlfriend?  I only know that I have met this now 3 year old girl, and I love her dearly as my own daughter.  She's funny, cute and a handful.

So, that's the background about her.  She really is a nice lady, but I think she made choices that have not worked out.  And the reason she doesn't talk about the UK guy is probably more out of embarrassment.  I've heard people in the south tell me that women in the north are like that.  Prideful.  Willing to have a baby to get a man.  So, again, I just don't know, but in the end, I have to choose.  And since I do love her, and her daughter, either I accept and marry or I don't.  Obviously, I chose the first.

Anyway, I was there for a week the first visit, and in that time, she invited me to her family Gio for her grandfather that passed away just after Tet this year.  I learned that was a huge deal because I would be meeting her family. I met more of her friends and all of her direct family at home.  Her mom is an awesome cook and cooks for the family on all events.  Her brother had a birthday party for her son the first week, and I got to go.

Wow, this is getting long.  So, let me try to wrap this up.  I just want to get good advice, and think telling more detail will get that for me.

I ended up spending 3 months in Vietnam and visiting her 5 times before coming home.

During that time, I started supporting her.  Because I wanted this to be my family.  I didn't do it for any other reason than this is a responsibility, and in Vietnam, it's what you do.  So, I started giving money and bought things for them like a washing machine, air conditioner, household things and more.  I would help her out and watch the little one without her.  To give her a break.  She is a single mom, and it is the toughest job in the world and in Vietnam, it is even harder.

Neighbors did talk.

But, always, when she needed things, she would not just come out and ask.  Maybe for pride's sake as she is EXTREMELY conservative and proud despite the UK choice.  The husband, I can accept fully.

So, on my last trip there before going to the US, I asked her, "Em biet anh yeu con gai cua em?  Em biet anh yeu em nhieu lam?  Em, cuoi anh nhe?"  Well, first she laughed because she's always said she is NOT romantic and really, she it not at all.  She has her way.  I told her to please answer me and not laugh.  She said  yes.  For sure.

Oh, on about my 4th trip to visit her from saigon, she blocked me again from facebook.  I had posted a picture of us together on my facebook and to select friends.  I do not know or pretend to know so much about posting photos and it links everyone.  Anyway, she immediately blocked me and asked I not post that picture on facebook.

So, to my real question here.  I am still blocked, and when I ask about it, she says she doesn't chat with foreigners or men.  I told her that for marrying and coming to the US, things like that are great for proof to the US government.  We have to keep a history and more pictures of us together, plane tickets, etc.  But she still blocks me.  She has a friend here who is helping me with the marriage process to come to the US. 

Last week, a good friend of mine, decided to look up her facebook.  Keep in mind, she told me, and her friend here more than a week ago now that she stopped on facebook. My friend shows me she did not stop.  In fact, there are videos she made of my little princes dancing late at night. The heading on the post is, " I love her so much!"

Well, I see a foreigner that "Liked" the video.  He also commented, "Me too".  She "Liked" his comment.

In my view, you just don't tell a woman that you love her children unless you love her and the children.  I would  never tell a woman that unless it is a long relationship, friendship.  The worse part is that this is not on her timeline.  And there are others like this from this same guy.

I don't know what to make of this.  Of course, she is not great with english and only liked his comment because it was nice.  But, I don't think she understands that "Me too" is the same as saying he loved MY daughter.  No, I do not know this man. I don't know if this is the man that she met and her sister wants her to marry.  She said the man already asked her to marry him, but she declined.

I did see other posts that my friend showed me.  In past timeline posts.  In there, I find that his daughter "likes" posts on my fiance's facebook, which obviously means shes on her friends list.  I see she "likes" a couple things on his facebook.  The recent one (not the video that was on July 12th after she supposedly stopped facebook), is on June 14th.  That's the day she and my daughter sent me off to the US.

I am new to jealousy.  Really.  I don't know what to make of this.  I hate that everyone in the world can see her on facebook (which means she has messanger too and we used to chat there also).  I don't want to confront her lest I look like some crazed jealous man.  That could be alarming.  I don't want to control her.  She's the one that volunteered to stop facebook (by the way, that's how she puts it).

This is combined with that she doesn't like to chat as she says.  I have since found out that she uses skype, Tango and who knows what else.  So, this jealousy is driving me crazy with more doubt.

Please keep in mind, that I am sure she will marry me.  She is just waiting on me and forms.  If I could fly over there and marry her today, she would.

But, how do I handle this?  There's more information, but I can see I wrote a lot already.  But, this is the crux of my question.  Do I do as some tell me and stop chatting with her?  Remember that in the beginning, we chatted so much that I was worried I could keep up.  Told her myself.  But, now, are chats are brief.  She always says she doesn't like to chat though in December she said she loved it with me.  She tells me she is "sorry, I not keep my phone".  But, when I was there, she always had it with her except at home when it was charging.  But, I will send her a message and almost 24 hours will go by.  How can she not check?  And if I'm her fiance, and she knows the time I try to contact her, why she wouldn't check?  It's an iphone, so, I know she gets the messages on Viber or from sms, because both show delivered.  She'll tell me the internet is slow, and it is; I was there.  But, when it shows delivered, it's on her phone.  It will show me when she actually reads the message as "Seen" on Viber.  So, I have yet to challenge her about it.

So, that's not true either.  So, combined with the facebook thing that she doesn't think I see yet, and the few chats, what's up?  Am I just worked up with jealousy?  Or is there truth to my feelings of doubt?  How do I cope with this?  How do I ignore her for a few days as friends tell me to do? I am always available when she writes me.  I'm older and I don't see the need for a "game".

Hope to get real help here.  I just don't know what to do.  Thanks for advice in advance!

Run Fredgo run....

fredgo anh oi!
I read first and last paras 
She really got what she want within '4 days' and understood  the size of your wallet,etc.
Better don't bother her. She may be 'very soft hearted' and wish to welcome different nationalities!

Your smartest move was wearing the Jerseys and living in a cheap hotel. She told you what she thought of you than. No need to apologize.

Hi,

Charm sent me this. I read all your letters and I have to say that you are cheated. I know someone had the same thought as you and the married finished after 3 years and that man usually blamed his ex-wife as a cheater.

Pls correct me if I am wrong: I feel your love is a hunting-chasing game

I want to tell you that "Don't married with a vietnamese lady who has a complicated life like her and seems her family is complicated too". No Vietnamese man dare to marry a lady who has 2 children  from last marriage and 1 from a relationship with Vietkieu ? It is abnormal in VN. I don't think she is "kind" when she took care of her relative in Tet holiday. Taking care of our relatives is normal in VN.

Are you sure that she told you all the things in her life or just good things to impress you? Are you sure that she does not sleep or fly to hcm or Ha noi to sleep with a foreigner or Viet kieu during the time you have known her? What's the problem when you commented in her post to appreciate the time you were together? Why did she blocked you the second time when you have already met her family, bought a lot of expensive things for them and even engaged her? She is a cave!

Don't feel pity for her life. Those females are born to attracted men so they have to be beautiful and gorgeous. But at the same time they usually take bad results for being greedy, material, or easy- going for men when they don't want to work harder, instead of looking at someone's pocket or getting married with a person who can help their life.

Seems all her family does not have any self-respect to let you buy those things for them. Are you sure your pocket is unlimited to be taken advantages all the time?

Make sure you will get married with someone who is understanding, doesn't have complicated family  and can be with you in the worst days when you don't have anything and even give you her saving money to bring you back.

I am sure her family is thinking that you are a stupid guy and she is lucky to meet you. Don't make them to call you " stubborn" again by getting married with her. Seems she doesn't know how to live when she is in a relationship to make her partner feel safe.

Sorry if I use very straight words to comment about her. Sometimes it is a long distance between loving and getting married with someone.

Regards

I didn't have ADD that I know of, but sure do now.
But seriously, the fact you wrote this means you too have serious doubts. Trust those doubts and move on. There are oodles more looking for a spouse. Trust me it does not matter your waist size or anything else.
I have run into many here who play the long lust of suitors just waiting to marry them. Seems it might be one of their tricks in the dating game.
As for your mistake in going down the jealousy trail I'm afraid you wi have to own that one. Jealousy is born out of our own lack of confidence in ourselves. And you sound ias if you indeed might suffer from that. Until you rectify that jealousy will be with you and haunt only you.
Throw that fish back and keep on searching. Above all don't try and buy her love. Like the other poster said she has shown her cards when she dinned your dress and the cubit of your hotel. Good luck, they do make great wives!!!

Hi Fredgo. DHuong here,& i am an American from Florida now living in Vietnam.That is quite a LONG story but i did read it all,i promise.I have learned that the majority,if not all,of the Vietnamese women can be very difficult to figure out, or understand, and deal with.It is the way they are mostly due to their culture & customs,upbringing, and economy. Most are born into a predestined life of hardship,and if they want something better for themselves,more times than not it will take the assistance ( boyfriend,fiance,husband ) of someone from outside their country to provide that for them. Many of the women here just accept the life they are born into,marry a Vietnamese man,and live the typical tough life they have been 'dealt'. It doesn't mean they don't yearn for more,dream of & wish there was a better life & way for them,and maybe even have a lot of jealousy & even some animosity for those who have what they don't,& probably never will,have.
  Now,if you add to all of that all of the problems,disappointment,hurt,resentment,anger,and probably some other things that this women you love & want to marry has,then you are going to have a women with some serious 'issues'.Noone can decide for you what to do,or what is the best thing to do,but you asked for some advice,so here is mine.I do not believe there is a 'right' or 'wrong' decision here on your part. Search your heart,be honest,and ask yourself: Do i really love this woman & her child(ren) & want to bring her/them to the U.S.?Just how much do i love her/them,& is my love conditional or unconditional?Am i willing to accept her & her problems completely,be patient, help & support her,and prove to her that she can trust me not to hurt or disappoint her?Am i willing to do anything & everything i can to give her/them a better life,and give her all the time she needs to get over the past & move ahead with a new life with me?And last,does she really love you,want to marry you for love,& can you trust her to stay with you & keep loving you through the easy & difficult times?If that last question doesn't really matter to you,that is your decision,& it's okay.So,if you can't answer yes to the first four questions knowing that in reality,no matter what you say or do,there are no guarantees as to how the relationship will go,you may want to think long & hard about pursuing the relationship any further.
  I hope this has helped you to see things in a better light, and maybe make your decision as to how to handle things a little easier.I wish you all the best.A 'traditional' Asian ( Vietnamese,Japanese,Chinese,Thai,etc.) woman can make for a very wonderful wife & companion,but with the passing of time it has become more & more difficult to find one.Welcome to the real world my friend!

  Best wishes,
  DHuong

It amazes me how we, men, often don't think with our upper brain but the lower one. Been there, done that... my own suggestion is get a good bottle of scotch, get drunk, destroy and delete all references to her and move on. Easier said than done, and I get the feeling that it will take you much more pain to realize this yourself. People certainly won't agree with me, but I can tell you that many, if not most Vietnamese women don't have love as priority. They want financial security, money for their family and most of the time escape Vietnam. Love is a bonus but it's being hindered by superficial requirements. Who can blame them? Life is really not easy in Vietnam, unless you're part of a wealthy family. This is from someone who has been happily married to a Vietnamese woman for four years. But I spent one year in Vietnam to get to know her, and also got to know her family. I suggest that next time you start using your other brain, and maybe you'll realize faster if she's worth it or not.

Often some Westerners go to Vietnam and use the fact that they're Westerners to have sex with (innocent or not so innocent) Vietnamese women. They make false promises and abuse Vietnamese culture to get what they want. Often some Vietnamese women prey on (the innocent or not so innocent) Westerners to get money or even better, foreign passports. There's bad people on both sides. You seem to be one of the good guys, so I feel sorry for you.

WillyBaldy wrote:

Often some Westerners go to Vietnam and use the fact that they're Westerners to have sex with (innocent or not so innocent) Vietnamese women. They make false promises and abuse Vietnamese culture to get what they want.

This statement I have qouted from your post is both offensive and derogatory to 'Westerners'.

Do you,WillyBaldy,who is right now living in Canada,
realize just how many hundreds of Vietnamese read these posts??

Yet,you only mention  'Westerners' in the above inflammatory comment.
Please define 'Westerners'.........

How about talking about the Africans in Vietnam?
Or say something about the Indians in Vietnam?
Talk about the Chinese in Vietnam?

These are non 'Westerners',yet they are in Vietnam too and are just as guilty of the claims you're making about 'Westerners'.

you still have a job, get married  so you need to work hard to keep your job and get money, in case if no money, unemployed, " Sorry, we need to divorce bc you can not take good care for me and my children any more so i need to find another man who is same as you at that time who help us". As what you description i guess that is the end result.
Actually, you knew the answer by yourself already but you would ask other advice to make sure that you are right. Hope you are awake and be stronger. God bless

jimbream wrote:

Yet,you only mention  'Westerners' in the above inflammatory comment.
Please define 'Westerners'.........

How about talking about the Africans in Vietnam?
Or say something about the Indians in Vietnam?
Talk about the Chinese in Vietnam?

These are non 'Westerners',yet they are in Vietnam too and are just as guilty of the claims you're making about 'Westerners'.

My friend, maybe you have a different view of things but from my own experience (and my wife's knowledge of her own culture) I can tell you that being a white Westerner gives you the highest status in Vietnam. Africans or Indians and even Malaysians won't have the same success in trying to "abuse" the local women as white Westerners do. Also, the person who wrote this thread is a Westerner, and it was in relation to him I wrote this. It's just the reality on the ground and if you see this comment as racist or offensive, I'm sorry you do but that's the way I see things.

charmavietnam wrote:

fredgo anh oi!
I read first and last paras 
She really got what she want within '4 days' and understood  the size of your wallet,etc.
Better don't bother her. She may be 'very soft hearted' and wish to welcome different nationalities!

Thanks charmavietnam.  I appreciate your words.  My wallet is pretty significant, but, I don't show all.  Despite my weariness, guess I still fell.

DHuong wrote:

Hi Fredgo. DHuong here,& i am an American from Florida now living in Vietnam.That is quite a LONG story but i did read it all,i promise.I have learned that the majority,if not all,of the Vietnamese women can be very difficult to figure out, or understand, and deal with.It is the way they are mostly due to their culture & customs,upbringing, and economy. Most are born into a predestined life of hardship,and if they want something better for themselves,more times than not it will take the assistance ( boyfriend,fiance,husband ) of someone from outside their country to provide that for them. Many of the women here just accept the life they are born into,marry a Vietnamese man,and live the typical tough life they have been 'dealt'. It doesn't mean they don't yearn for more,dream of & wish there was a better life & way for them,and maybe even have a lot of jealousy & even some animosity for those who have what they don't,& probably never will,have.
  Now,if you add to all of that all of the problems,disappointment,hurt,resentment,anger,and probably some other things that this women you love & want to marry has,then you are going to have a women with some serious 'issues'.Noone can decide for you what to do,or what is the best thing to do,but you asked for some advice,so here is mine.I do not believe there is a 'right' or 'wrong' decision here on your part. Search your heart,be honest,and ask yourself: Do i really love this woman & her child(ren) & want to bring her/them to the U.S.?Just how much do i love her/them,& is my love conditional or unconditional?Am i willing to accept her & her problems completely,be patient, help & support her,and prove to her that she can trust me not to hurt or disappoint her?Am i willing to do anything & everything i can to give her/them a better life,and give her all the time she needs to get over the past & move ahead with a new life with me?And last,does she really love you,want to marry you for love,& can you trust her to stay with you & keep loving you through the easy & difficult times?If that last question doesn't really matter to you,that is your decision,& it's okay.So,if you can't answer yes to the first four questions knowing that in reality,no matter what you say or do,there are no guarantees as to how the relationship will go,you may want to think long & hard about pursuing the relationship any further.
  I hope this has helped you to see things in a better light, and maybe make your decision as to how to handle things a little easier.I wish you all the best.A 'traditional' Asian ( Vietnamese,Japanese,Chinese,Thai,etc.) woman can make for a very wonderful wife & companion,but with the passing of time it has become more & more difficult to find one.Welcome to the real world my friend!

  Best wishes,
  DHuong

Thanks DHuong.  Of all the replies to my request for help, yours was the closest to helping me.  I agree with all posts (except the one about thinking with my second head.  I am 49, and falling for that is not as strong as it was when I was 22. LOL).

I liked your reply, because it really got to my point describing her.  If my post was a western man and western woman (asian western), I would run long ago.  But, considering her background and vietnam culture, this is a little different.  I know that in Vietnam, what is most important to most women there is providing for family.  Love is good if it can be achieved, but I also know women will marry for family, for better life, for changing the "lot" in life and more like this.  For a westerner, this seems so materialistic, but in Vietnam it is more for priority than love.  Many cannot afford the latter.  It's one of the many reasons that when I marry again, it will be only to a Vietnam woman.  My hope is that it is this one.

Truly, after much thought, I can say yes to all of your questions.  My truest concern is dealing/coping with the jealousy thing.  Again, for western cultures, if I inserted a woman from the US, this would make me run and likely I would not even consider writing about this.  It is also why I am writing on this forum and not any others.  I figure there are men here (and women) that have dealt with the culture side of my situation.  And advice like yours is very helpful.

Thanks again for  your reply and hope to hear from you more!

Sincerely,

Fred

MIA2013 wrote:

I wish I didn't suffer from ADD because I really would of loved to have read all of this long arse post. 
Sounds like she has got a lot of bones in her closet and if you like sleeping in a cemetery then go ahead and marry her since you love her so much. But..... I have a feeling that if you do marry her you won't be for long or be happy having done so. Good Luck.

Thanks.  You may be right about this by a lot.  But, I am having trouble with the "What if..."  What if she is true and just made mistakes?  I've made them.  Maybe not to her level, but, the thinking in Vietnam is not the same as here. Oh, well.  I am sure that in the coming months I will reflect on this.  As many, and you have posted, this is my brain telling my heart, this is not the right direction, and if things do not change, well, guess I'll have to move on...

Adhome01 wrote:

Sorry dude but you're being taken for a ride. I've seen this many times over and, though it feels unique to you, this is a classic game. Your whole post is a warning sign. My guess is she has multiple boyfriends she's getting money from and you're just one of them. You need to stop making excuses for her actions and see them for what they are. What you think is jealousy is really your better judgment telling you to get the hell out of there.

Do me a favor, reread your post and pretend it was written by someone you didn't know. What would your opinion be?

I don't mean to be cruel but a blind lotto salesman can see what's happening here.

You're not being cruel.  Just, you are right.  I did reread and as I wrote the long thing, I have the same realization.  I'm just confused because of the cultural issue.  If it were just a western woman here, this would be an open and shut case. Maybe I'm just "needy".  I don't know.  But, what I do know is that I am not happy as I should be.  And that is what I am thinking most about now.  Will I be happy after marrying her?  Will I be able to accept things?  When we were together the many times, I could see the love.  It's really when I am away, that doubts start.  It's really this stupid facebook thing.  It's like a dam with a small hole.  And that hole is letting unnecessary doubts come in.  Wish I could explain this to her.

I know she wants to marry me just by the steps already taken.  Maybe it's just to come to the US and a good life compared to hers now.  If it were just for money, likely the relationship would have ended already.  Again, I was there long enough that I could have picked up on things with family and friends.  Meeting her entire family and taking care of her children alone means something in vietnam.

It's just the nagging feeling...

ParadiseCruiser wrote:

Too long dont read

pity post~

Then why post to me or this post? Jeeze.

Yogi007 wrote:

Hi Fredgo.  Personally from reading that, I'd start running now.  I've had similar situations and they all turned to crap very quickly.  It's very hard to find a girl here that you are culturally compatible with and the relationship expectations are realistic .  I've known several older vietnamese women who have ALL said, " the woman here will never love YOU, they only like what you do for them and the family"  . They see you as a solution to a problem.  If the age gap is more than 15/20 years your kidding yourself.   A lot of older guys confuse lust with love.  They get " star struck" and flattered that a young pretty girl wants to marry them.  Some of them are very good actors and illusionists.
If your lonely and gullible your screwed.  Every wedding I've been to here has crashed .  Come to think of it....every wedding I went to back home turned to crap as well, including two of my own. Ha ha ...life can be interesting eh.  Good luck Fred.

Thanks for your reply!  She's 34 on Friday, so, likely, she is thinking along the lines you describe.  Question for me is that okay?  I think so.  At my age, it's the loyalty and commitment that most vietnamese women provide that is more important.  She makes up for many things in ways that my ex didn't.  And really, western women are not much different.  They marry for love, but as soon as you have a baby, they are about the same things.  What you can provide.  At least with the vietnamese woman, she does take care of her man.

BTW, I am not lonely.  I have been going to vietnam for 8 years.  Maybe 47 trips already.  If I wanted just the sex, that's easy.  But, it's not what I am looking for.  So, I pass on what others come to vietnam for.  I can meet a woman, not do anything, and know I am coming back.  So there is not time pressure. Even with this woman, I will be back in late August and again in November.

I am likely suffering from home sickness (2nd home because I truly love vietnam).  It's the facebook thing that is bothering me the most I suppose.  Thanks for your time!

thanlan7465 wrote:

I married a Vietnamese woman and brought her to the USA 5 years ago. Things have worked out well. We love each other and are very interested in each others culture. We work together as a team. We are thinking of moving back to VN in a few years and start another adventure over there. I can understand how you could fall for a VN woman, they have allot of the boxes checked that western women don't... HOWEVER,

From your post above, I don't think that your differences are cultural, I think they are gender based... I think she is playing you like a fiddle... I suggest that you continue to shop around. VN is full of beautiful women with allot less baggage. And besides... WHATS THE RUSH TO GET MARRIED? If you are not sure at this point...... You know what to do.

That is a good post.  Thanks!  I think I will ease off the gas pedal now.  I have viet friends here and in vietnam, and they say the same thing.  Most closest have suggested that I go and live there some months with her first.  And learn about each other more and her family.

Problem is, really, Nam Dinh is one of the most boring towns!  Nothing to do!  It's hotter than Saigon, and most people stay indoors until evening.  They go out to eat, the men drink until drunk, and then go home and sleep at about 10:00.  I love her enough that I suffer it, but, man, is it boring there! LOL

chinhngo wrote:

you still have a job, get married  so you need to work hard to keep your job and get money, in case if no money, unemployed, " Sorry, we need to divorce bc you can not take good care for me and my children any more so i need to find another man who is same as you at that time who help us". As what you description i guess that is the end result.
Actually, you knew the answer by yourself already but you would ask other advice to make sure that you are right. Hope you are awake and be stronger. God bless

Thanks!  Can't say that your quote about later in a divorce scenario I could hear that.  I do plan to have a prenuptial agreement.  But here is the thing.  I know I am ONLY interested in vietnamese women.  I know that I only want to marry a vietnamese woman.  And I know there is NO way I can truly learn of the past.  A woman could have been "unscrupulous" early in life, even hide it from family, but how could I ever know?  So, at some point, I would have to take the leap of faith and just hope for the best.

Really, is there a story where this goes the other way?

fredgo wrote:

I think I will ease off the gas pedal now.  I have viet friends here and in vietnam, and they say the same thing.  Most closest have suggested that I go and live there some months with her first.  And learn about each other more and her family.

Sorry for assuming you were thinking with your "second" brain, but you have to admit that her being so gorgeous is not just a coincidence ;-) Personally, I think that is she was really into you and willing to be devoted to you, you would not be having all of these "Facebook" problems. She'd be proud to be seen with you, no matter what her family might think. But if you really want to pursue this, spending a few more months with her and getting to know her family makes a lot to sense to me. I personally get a good idea of a woman's values by seeing how she interacts with her family, and how her family interacts with me. My wife told me that many Vietnamese families would want their daughter to marry a Westerner (or maybe a foreigner) at all cost. But a family with good values (or what I perceive as good values) will want to make sure their daughter is safe and treated well first. A family with good values won't require that you provide money or gold to marry their daughter, as long as you treat their daughter well. Don't let them use Vietnamese culture as an excuse. Also, in my case, I always told my wife that I would provider for *her* in the first few years but that *she* would be responsible to provide to her family. That's something my Vietnamese friend did and it's my suggestion to you. Don't become the family's provider, it can skew the line between a healthy and superficial relationship.

WillyBaldy wrote:

fredgo wrote:

I think I will ease off the gas pedal now.  I have viet friends here and in vietnam, and they say the same thing.  Most closest have suggested that I go and live there some months with her first.  And learn about each other more and her family.

Sorry for assuming you were thinking with your "second" brain, but you have to admit that her being so gorgeous is not just a coincidence ;-) Personally, I think that is she was really into you and willing to be devoted to you, you would not be having all of these "Facebook" problems. She'd be proud to be seen with you, no matter what her family might think. But if you really want to pursue this, spending a few more months with her and getting to know her family makes a lot to sense to me. I personally get a good idea of a woman's values by seeing how she interacts with her family, and how her family interacts with me. My wife told me that many Vietnamese families would want their daughter to marry a Westerner (or maybe a foreigner) at all cost. But a family with good values (or what I perceive as good values) will want to make sure their daughter is safe and treated well first. A family with good values won't require that you provide money or gold to marry their daughter, as long as you treat their daughter well. Don't let them use Vietnamese culture as an excuse. Also, in my case, I always told my wife that I would provider for *her* in the first few years but that *she* would be responsible to provide to her family. That's something my Vietnamese friend did and it's my suggestion to you. Don't become the family's provider, it can skew the line between a healthy and superficial relationship.

No problem!  I figured I would get a lot of "Run" comments, but, I really am looking for the advice in my situation.  Of course, I can run and would probably be a good thing to do.  But, what if she is as I believe, a good woman that has been let down a lot.  Truth be told, she is really really beautiful (most say she is an 8).  But, it's not the beauty that has me now.  I'd be lying if I said it wasn't in the beginning, but, looks only matter in the initial attraction phase in a relationship. Now it's the "trai tim tot" that matters most. 

She has told me several times that when she comes here, she really wants to work.  Work hard to have a good house, car and things.  I don't blame her coming from where she is.  I did not mention before, but her family was wealthy, but not now.  Seeing her at work and seeing her when I was there working some days gives a lot of credibility.  She would even use her iphone to check market prices and even though language is vietnamese, MONEY is universal.   So, I could see what she was doing.

I could continue to explain away her situation, but, I also need to consider the other view too.  Truth be told, in vietnam, no man would want her.  Any man that did, would just be doing so just to have fun and use her.  She knows this.  I have had people here talk about what she is doing when I am away.  She stays home.  It's not easy to travel with 3 kids.  I have two, so, I know this.  I'm divorced, so it's easier, but, for a vietnam woman to go somewhere is not easy.  Yes, she did it for me.  And I could see on her face how hard it was to be away from her children.  And, we do have facetime and Tango calls often.  Every week at least twice.  I can call her almost anytime.  I can see she is home.  One other fact, she gets extremely car sick.  Even taking the local taxi is gets her.  You can't hide that.  So, to travel is not something she would do offhandedly.

I guess I should start making demands.  I hate doing that. Really.  But, I have no other tool at hand except to cut and run.  Some asked me if I could marry her even if it was not true love.  That is a hard thing to find anyway, and congrats to you.  But, as long as she treats me as vietnamese women do their man, I would be content.  At my age, I just need a companion in life.  I am not interested in changing gf's all of the time.  Believe me, it would be easy there.  Unfortunately, there are some that I know that view Saigon as a kid in a candy store.  It ticks me off, because it ruins if for the good men.  But, that's what I am up against.

fredgo wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

fredgo wrote:

I think I will ease off the gas pedal now.  I have viet friends here and in vietnam, and they say the same thing.  Most closest have suggested that I go and live there some months with her first.  And learn about each other more and her family.

Sorry for assuming you were thinking with your "second" brain, but you have to admit that her being so gorgeous is not just a coincidence ;-) Personally, I think that is she was really into you and willing to be devoted to you, you would not be having all of these "Facebook" problems. She'd be proud to be seen with you, no matter what her family might think. But if you really want to pursue this, spending a few more months with her and getting to know her family makes a lot to sense to me. I personally get a good idea of a woman's values by seeing how she interacts with her family, and how her family interacts with me. My wife told me that many Vietnamese families would want their daughter to marry a Westerner (or maybe a foreigner) at all cost. But a family with good values (or what I perceive as good values) will want to make sure their daughter is safe and treated well first. A family with good values won't require that you provide money or gold to marry their daughter, as long as you treat their daughter well. Don't let them use Vietnamese culture as an excuse. Also, in my case, I always told my wife that I would provider for *her* in the first few years but that *she* would be responsible to provide to her family. That's something my Vietnamese friend did and it's my suggestion to you. Don't become the family's provider, it can skew the line between a healthy and superficial relationship.

No problem!  I figured I would get a lot of "Run" comments, but, I really am looking for the advice in my situation.  Of course, I can run and would probably be a good thing to do.  But, what if she is as I believe, a good woman that has been let down a lot.  Truth be told, she is really really beautiful (most say she is an 8).  But, it's not the beauty that has me now.  I'd be lying if I said it wasn't in the beginning, but, looks only matter in the initial attraction phase in a relationship. Now it's the "trai tim tot" that matters most. 

She has told me several times that when she comes here, she really wants to work.  Work hard to have a good house, car and things.  I don't blame her coming from where she is.  I did not mention before, but her family was wealthy, but not now.  Seeing her at work and seeing her when I was there working some days gives a lot of credibility.  She would even use her iphone to check market prices and even though language is vietnamese, MONEY is universal.   So, I could see what she was doing.

I could continue to explain away her situation, but, I also need to consider the other view too.  Truth be told, in vietnam, no man would want her.  Any man that did, would just be doing so just to have fun and use her.  She knows this.  I have had people here talk about what she is doing when I am away.  She stays home.  It's not easy to travel with 3 kids.  I have two, so, I know this.  I'm divorced, so it's easier, but, for a vietnam woman to go somewhere is not easy.  Yes, she did it for me.  And I could see on her face how hard it was to be away from her children.  And, we do have facetime and Tango calls often.  Every week at least twice.  I can call her almost anytime.  I can see she is home.  One other fact, she gets extremely car sick.  Even taking the local taxi is gets her.  You can't hide that.  So, to travel is not something she would do offhandedly.

I guess I should start making demands.  I hate doing that. Really.  But, I have no other tool at hand except to cut and run.  Some asked me if I could marry her even if it was not true love.  That is a hard thing to find anyway, and congrats to you.  But, as long as she treats me as vietnamese women do their man, I would be content.  At my age, I just need a companion in life.  I am not interested in changing gf's all of the time.  Believe me, it would be easy there.  Unfortunately, there are some that I know that view Saigon as a kid in a candy store.  It ticks me off, because it ruins if for the good men.  But, that's what I am up against.

Buddy.
Pal.
Old son.
Matey.

You can't really be serious about asking a group of strangers concerning an intimate difficulty.
ONLINE>
Aren't these personal problems the realm of Ma or Pa? Perhaps sister or brother? Maybe a close friend?

No real answers of solution have been forwarded in your direction thus far.
Merely sympathetic words and inane diatribe.

So where do you go now?
Maybe another forum(if not already)?

jimbream wrote:

No real answers of solution have been forwarded in your direction thus far.
Merely sympathetic words and inane diatribe.

I can assure you that, based on his original question, what's been offered here was of much more value than your own comments.

jimbream wrote:

fredgo wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

Sorry for assuming you were thinking with your "second" brain, but you have to admit that her being so gorgeous is not just a coincidence ;-) Personally, I think that is she was really into you and willing to be devoted to you, you would not be having all of these "Facebook" problems. She'd be proud to be seen with you, no matter what her family might think. But if you really want to pursue this, spending a few more months with her and getting to know her family makes a lot to sense to me. I personally get a good idea of a woman's values by seeing how she interacts with her family, and how her family interacts with me. My wife told me that many Vietnamese families would want their daughter to marry a Westerner (or maybe a foreigner) at all cost. But a family with good values (or what I perceive as good values) will want to make sure their daughter is safe and treated well first. A family with good values won't require that you provide money or gold to marry their daughter, as long as you treat their daughter well. Don't let them use Vietnamese culture as an excuse. Also, in my case, I always told my wife that I would provider for *her* in the first few years but that *she* would be responsible to provide to her family. That's something my Vietnamese friend did and it's my suggestion to you. Don't become the family's provider, it can skew the line between a healthy and superficial relationship.

No problem!  I figured I would get a lot of "Run" comments, but, I really am looking for the advice in my situation.  Of course, I can run and would probably be a good thing to do.  But, what if she is as I believe, a good woman that has been let down a lot.  Truth be told, she is really really beautiful (most say she is an 8).  But, it's not the beauty that has me now.  I'd be lying if I said it wasn't in the beginning, but, looks only matter in the initial attraction phase in a relationship. Now it's the "trai tim tot" that matters most. 

She has told me several times that when she comes here, she really wants to work.  Work hard to have a good house, car and things.  I don't blame her coming from where she is.  I did not mention before, but her family was wealthy, but not now.  Seeing her at work and seeing her when I was there working some days gives a lot of credibility.  She would even use her iphone to check market prices and even though language is vietnamese, MONEY is universal.   So, I could see what she was doing.

I could continue to explain away her situation, but, I also need to consider the other view too.  Truth be told, in vietnam, no man would want her.  Any man that did, would just be doing so just to have fun and use her.  She knows this.  I have had people here talk about what she is doing when I am away.  She stays home.  It's not easy to travel with 3 kids.  I have two, so, I know this.  I'm divorced, so it's easier, but, for a vietnam woman to go somewhere is not easy.  Yes, she did it for me.  And I could see on her face how hard it was to be away from her children.  And, we do have facetime and Tango calls often.  Every week at least twice.  I can call her almost anytime.  I can see she is home.  One other fact, she gets extremely car sick.  Even taking the local taxi is gets her.  You can't hide that.  So, to travel is not something she would do offhandedly.

I guess I should start making demands.  I hate doing that. Really.  But, I have no other tool at hand except to cut and run.  Some asked me if I could marry her even if it was not true love.  That is a hard thing to find anyway, and congrats to you.  But, as long as she treats me as vietnamese women do their man, I would be content.  At my age, I just need a companion in life.  I am not interested in changing gf's all of the time.  Believe me, it would be easy there.  Unfortunately, there are some that I know that view Saigon as a kid in a candy store.  It ticks me off, because it ruins if for the good men.  But, that's what I am up against.

Buddy.
Pal.
Old son.
Matey.

You can't really be serious about asking a group of strangers concerning an intimate difficulty.
ONLINE>
Aren't these personal problems the realm of Ma or Pa? Perhaps sister or brother? Maybe a close friend?

No real answers of solution have been forwarded in your direction thus far.
Merely sympathetic words and inane diatribe.

So where do you go now?
Maybe another forum(if not already)?

Not going to other forums.  Actually, a few have replied privately, and it's helped.  As for other forums, the only reason for considering this one is for it's relationship with Vietnam.  As for personal, this is okay because it does not connect me directly.  That is, I will not be meeting anyone here and likely not running into anyone unless we meet via private messages.  I also sort through the ones that are trying to help versus the ones wanting to insult me.

I appreciate your response though because you did take time out to write.  Thanks!

I'm an American who has lived and worked with Viet people for over 15 years (two wives) and I also speak Viet fairly fluently. I can tell you with the utmost certainty that her family knows all about her past and will never give you any indication what her true intentions are. No matter what you believe, you are an outsider, meal ticket, and/or and opportunity for a better life, not just for her but also them. This has nothing to do with you being a good guy or her being a bad person, you're the only one thinking in these terms. No one in her family will feel sorry for you if she breaks your heart and leaves you penniless. That's just how family is here.

You need to stop trying to convince yourself that this relationship is something it isn't. Everyone here is trying to tell you but you're still holding on to some fantasy thread of hope. Just tell the girl you lost a big contract and money will be tight for a while, then, you never hear from her again and you can get your head together. After a few months, look for a nice girl with no children, who has never been married and 'preferably' never dated a foreigner. In six months from now you'll be a happier and healthier person.

Adhome01 wrote:

I'm an American who has lived and worked with Viet people for over 15 years (two wives) and I also speak Viet fairly fluently. I can tell you with the utmost certainty that her family knows all about her past and will never give you any indication what her true intentions are. No matter what you believe, you are an outsider, meal ticket, and/or and opportunity for a better life, not just for her but also them. This has nothing to do with you being a good guy or her being a bad person, you're the only one thinking in these terms. No one in her family will feel sorry for you if she breaks your heart and leaves you penniless. That's just how family is here.

You need to stop trying to convince yourself that this relationship is something it isn't. Everyone here is trying to tell you but you're still holding on to some fantasy thread of hope. Just tell the girl you lost a big contract and money will be tight for a while, then, you never hear from her again and you can get your head together. After a few months, look for a nice girl with no children, who has never been married and 'preferably' never dated a foreigner. In six months from now you'll be a happier and healthier person.

yeah, I'm getting it.  Thanks.

You left out the worst of the bunch; married old Viet Kieu's.

jimbream wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

Often some Westerners go to Vietnam and use the fact that they're Westerners to have sex with (innocent or not so innocent) Vietnamese women. They make false promises and abuse Vietnamese culture to get what they want.

This statement I have qouted from your post is both offensive and derogatory to 'Westerners'.

Do you,WillyBaldy,who is right now living in Canada,
realize just how many hundreds of Vietnamese read these posts??

Yet,you only mention  'Westerners' in the above inflammatory comment.
Please define 'Westerners'.........

How about talking about the Africans in Vietnam?
Or say something about the Indians in Vietnam?
Talk about the Chinese in Vietnam?

These are non 'Westerners',yet they are in Vietnam too and are just as guilty of the claims you're making about 'Westerners'.

Rule number 11: If a Vietnamese women has an iPhone run!