Why are some foreigners - especially expats - hostile and patronized?

Please avoid generalizing. Those who generalize and say "people from this or that country are stupid" are surely more stupid than the others ...

I meant they think we are "stupid", but I used "silly" to make it less offensive. I didn't mean when they think we are silly, they are stupid. Will edit my post to make my statement clearer.

I think I can answer your question:  Some people are jerks.

I agree with Julien, you shouldn't be generalizing.  Just like expats could easily turn around and say, "Why so many Vietnamese locals think foreigners are rich?  Why they always ask for money?  Why always overcharge us when buying stuff?  etc etc"  , but that would be wrong too.

Just like in Vietnam and in foreign countries, you have good people and bad ones.  Even though I've encountered many bad people in Vietnam, I never think of Vietnamese people as bad.  I can't tell you how many bad experiences I've had going through airport customs at Tan Son Nhat airport, staff that can't even speak English at an AIRPORT (isn't speaking English supposed to be a requirement when working there anyway?), calling you stupid and trying to shake me down, and yet, I never let these bad experiences let me cloud my view of Vietnam and Vietnamese people as a whole, and you should try to open your mind and do the same.

Now, let's not be so sensible here and save sensibility for when we have to react outdoors.

Why are some foreigners - especially expats - hostile and patronized?

In St. Lucia it's only Americans the ones with attitudes as if they are in USA.
They piss everybody off by looking as if they know everything but in fact they have no pocket change to buy you a coffee ...

I like and agree with rebels but when they have nothing else to offer other than their criticism, then I turn mad against the rebellious types.
You must have a strong character and differentiate the people who are good to you and those who are not.
Always look for that gem of a person with a golden heart, or let such person(s) find you ... 

I just wanted to share a question that doubt me and make me so much lazy as well as hesitant to talk/make friend/work with expats.
I've learned English when I was very young in a convention. I was very keen on making friend and helping people (not only expats). It was very interesting to help expats cause I had chances to practice my English. I remember when I was 8, I helped a foreigner finding a place, he gave me e pen and I kept it as a reward for studying English so hard. And they never looked down on me cause my English is bad. They always said "Keep trying! Don't be shy! You're not native English speaker." and they taught me far more than what I've learned at schools.

Before being doubted by this question and become tired of be bad treated by SOME expats I met, I always thought languages are gateways open us to other worlds where we haven't opportunities to reach to. I admired and envied with people who had chances to go from countries to countries, explore the world by themselves, not having to read and watch from far away through books, magazines, TV like me or the rest. When you're a foreigner, it's very easy for you to travel around the world than people from some developing countries, e.g VN. And you are a gateway for us to learn about your country, too.

Well, then I grown up, learned more, worked more, travelled more, and met more. But the more I have chances to approach what I loved to learn from, the more upset I am.
Until now, I'm tired of foreigners approaching local woman looking for sex, even cheap sex (my experience), not bothering to distinguish types of woman, well educated or not. Most of them think they have money, they are foreigners, so they try to buy people.

When I met some at work, they behave as if they are from an upper civilization and we're all stupid and lazy people, just like back in colonial time when they were bosses. When I met some at entertainment places, they drink beer, alcohol more than Vietnamese people, spend whole evening sitting there chatting with bar girls, playing poker, then end up somewhere with some of the girls, day by day. Most of people I met (not all, of course) judge us and compare us to other countries.

Just like here, I was very keen on helping people to know more about Vietnam. I want to make things better by telling people here what I know about the law, rules,... that they might be concerning about. When I saw a topic asking about stuffs I know, I translated the documents from Vietnam to English and posted here with the hope that it might be helpful. Then a guy here told me to go away and come back when I understand English while I was just trying to help. Another said "I know you're trying to be helpful, but your tone is a bit condescending, if not ridiculing", which made me stop immediately what I was doing.

I know Vietnam nowadays encounter many problems. We are ashamed with our bad things, too and trying to fix them. It's just a very sensible moment of me last night when I shared my sorrow through all over what I'm having to look at what happen in my countries and my scattered childhood dreams, in which I've got help from a nice, handsome blue eyes foreigner to improve my English and bring good, advanced knowledge from his country to help us, instead of a big belly fat ass old man coming here after his bad time back in his country, seeking for a way out for his sad life while still judging us as if he's God coming from heaven.

I even blame us for spoiling expats who live here for long time. Sometimes, when I met a very nice foreigner who has just arrived in Vietnam, I'm always wondering how he/she would be after years living here. Did we spoil them by the differences between 2 cultures?

By the way, I'm so sorry if my English is too bad to express what I want to tell you. I don't mean to blame anyone. I really want to share my thoughts about what's happening around me, about misunderstanding between expats and local people, which leads to many topics here.

Thanks for reading this!
Have a nice weekend!

Good topic question Scarletvn.

I read a commentary recently on Thanh Nien news about this.

http://www.thanhniennews.com/commentari … 24817.html

It might have to do with the whole humanity thing with the "haves" versus the "have-nots".  Kings/nobles versus Peasants, rich versus poor, strong versus weak mentality.  Maybe the foreigners/expats you encounter in the topic question have the mentality that they're richer/stronger than you and go about as such.

@Scarletvn

I do loved what you wrote about your thoughts and feelings. I do understand what you mean in some part quite agree with you.
But keep in mind that :
- you can't be loved by everybody. There are billions people around the world. You will always find this kind of "big belly fat ass old man" you're talking about who spend their days behind a screen to spread their weak existence and their night at bar with girls. Don't even give a shit to these people. They don't live in the same world and bring nothing to others.
- as high as one's sitting, one's only sitting on his ass.
- money can't buy love and friendship
- criticism is easy, art is difficult
- ignorance is the worst insult.

OP you are bringing up a valid concern I see with older expats here. It is true Vietnam attracts old guys who are here for cheap living, cheap women and cheap fun. That's the downside of a developing country. As an expat, I get so disgusted with those types and just try to stick around earnest people instead of focusing on those. If one ever approaches you, make your feelings known how you feel about him. Those guys are losers in their home country, let them know they're STILL losers here. 

And you guys also need to remember, even if an expat brags about how rich he is in Vietnam, usually he's only just low-middle income compared to their own people.

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

OP you are bringing up a valid concern I see with older expats here. It is true Vietnam attracts old guys who are here for cheap living, cheap women and cheap fun. That's the downside of a developing country. As an expat, I get so disgusted with those types and just try to stick around earnest people instead of focusing on those. If one ever approaches you, make your feelings known how you feel about him. Those guys are losers in their home country, let them know they're STILL losers here. 

About 2 years ago I visited Vietnam, fell in love with the people and the opportunity to learn about the customs, culture and traditions of Vietnam.  In the USA, I am just another fat old guy. Here I am rich, handsome, someone the lady's want to date. Apparently here I am marriage material. Yes they are younger than me. Currently involved with someone 20 years younger than me. People enjoy my company and I enjoy theirs.  As an added benefit, the cost of living and having fun is inexpensive compared to our income verses living in the USA. Unfortunately I have also run into expats that are losers no matter where they live. They are the ones that have no respect for others.

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

OP you are bringing up a valid concern I see with older expats here. It is true Vietnam attracts old guys who are here for cheap living, cheap women and cheap fun. That's the downside of a developing country. As an expat, I get so disgusted with those types and just try to stick around earnest people instead of focusing on those. If one ever approaches you, make your feelings known how you feel about him. Those guys are losers in their home country, let them know they're STILL losers here. 

Hi there,

1). Not only cheap women, also petites.  Many men going to East Asia go there because women are small size and consider westerns extra virile.
Women in the west laugh at many men, and the only escape for such men is to orient themselves to other meridians.  Which is not bad, but they must not forget the truth ...

2). Bad expats make a very hot topic.
Americans are not liked and I never understood why.
Here in the Caribbean many folks come and buy property just to get into the drug networks quietly because Uncle Sam's children need hallucinogens to get by.

There is even a trend for governments to select better on who they allow to stay and buy property.

3). On the Ecuador forum, there was talk about how well someone with US$500 / month (American or not) can live there.
With politicians on the lookout for new topics for their career, I shall not be surprised to see legislation against the settlement of low income foreigners introduced in a few years.
Every country has enough poor people and it seems consensus builds up against poor foreigners settling abroad freely adding nothing of value to the country as a whole.

There are many countries already which do not accept newcomers with disabilities whose presence will stress the medical network, so one does not have to wonder when persons with very limited income sources are going to be rejected immigration to certain countries.
It's a matter of time until MORE RULES will be introduced to stem the flow of cheapies hippies ...

What bothers me personally is someone who never did anything important for the good of other people, a hootchie-kootchie man, in his country, and who now comes to a new country to do the same nonsense he always did and be the same old hootchie-kootchie man again.

I live in a black country since 1991 because of my own choice and please believe me, sometimes I feel ashamed of being a white man when I see what low quality foreigners come here.   

ancientpathos wrote:

....  Unfortunately I have also run into expats that are losers no matter where they live. They are the ones that have no respect for others.

Once a loser, forever a loser.
What you are saying applies where I live too.
Thanks. 

ancientpathos wrote:

About 2 years ago I visited Vietnam, fell in love with the people and the opportunity to learn about the customs, culture and traditions of Vietnam.  In the USA, I am just another fat old guy. Here I am rich, handsome, someone the lady's want to date. Apparently here I am marriage material. Yes they are younger than me. Currently involved with someone 20 years younger than me. People enjoy my company and I enjoy theirs.  As an added benefit, the cost of living and having fun is inexpensive compared to our income verses living in the USA. Unfortunately I have also run into expats that are losers no matter where they live. They are the ones that have no respect for others.

Hi ancientpathos.

Please be sure I don't want to be offensive. If you feel offended, it's only because of my bad english!

I think that if lady's (young ones) want to date you, if you are marriage material, if vn people (especially young girls) enjoy your company (or let you think so), ask yourself, honestly : why?
How can you believe a 20yo nice girl will enjoy a "fat old guy", as you described yourself? Don't you really think she would be better with a similar aged bf, as in any other country in the world?

Many vn girls have an impressive sense of sacrifice, they will do anything, by anyway, making others (you) believe anything to obtain what they want to have a better life for them and their family.

I believe you when you say you're very respectful with these people, but don't get fooled by their way of being with you. But you can still don't want to see what's in front of you. One's can't oblige a blind man to see.

Sorry for my bad english, I hope you got my mind and didn't feel offended.

Please allow me to be as blunt as possible:  most expats aren't what they advertise themselves to be.  They either can't hack it in the old countries or they are just maniacs.  It is as simple as that!!!  If they were any different, then we would NEVER have to have this type of discussions.

Wild_1 wrote:

most expats aren't what they advertise themselves to be.  They either can't hack it in the old countries or they are just maniacs.

Says the man in a baseball cap and sunglasses who calls himself "Wild_1". 

Just read along, little man!!!  What do you have???

Wild_1 wrote:

Just read along, little man!!!  What do you have???

Oooh, angry name calling.  Thanks for proving my point! 

I think I should haven't asked this question. Chill out, everyone!
Have a windy and good night! It's too hot out here!

ancientpathos wrote:

milkybunnyHCM wrote:

OP you are bringing up a valid concern I see with older expats here. It is true Vietnam attracts old guys who are here for cheap living, cheap women and cheap fun. That's the downside of a developing country. As an expat, I get so disgusted with those types and just try to stick around earnest people instead of focusing on those. If one ever approaches you, make your feelings known how you feel about him. Those guys are losers in their home country, let them know they're STILL losers here. 

About 2 years ago I visited Vietnam, fell in love with the people and the opportunity to learn about the customs, culture and traditions of Vietnam.  In the USA, I am just another fat old guy. Here I am rich, handsome, someone the lady's want to date. Apparently here I am marriage material. Yes they are younger than me. Currently involved with someone 20 years younger than me. People enjoy my company and I enjoy theirs.  As an added benefit, the cost of living and having fun is inexpensive compared to our income verses living in the USA. Unfortunately I have also run into expats that are losers no matter where they live. They are the ones that have no respect for others.

Hello Ancient,

20 years younger than you? 
You must be joking.
In the Caribbean you find even higher age differences.
I personally know a British guy who came to SLU many years ago with his wife and son.  They were so poor in UK that for them SLU was heaven, and they both were heavy drinkers.

Long story short, he found a very young school girl he loved a lot, divorced his drunkard wife, married the young one, had a son with her, and died a few years ago.
He left a flourishing business behind and the once young lady has been well taken care of.
Much, much better than if she had gotten involved with locals who do not want to get married and go from one woman to the next making lots of children at every street corner.
The difference between the British guy and his angel: 35 years.
They lived together for many years ... of course, with their 'ups' and 'downs' ... 
--------------------------------------

Keep going old chap!  Enjoy while it lasts!
When it stops working, get drunk for one day and then find someone new with whom it looks like it's going to last again.
Please don't stop! ...     There is no reason to stop. 

Wild_1 wrote:

Please allow me to be as blunt as possible:  most expats aren't what they advertise themselves to be.  They either can't hack it in the old countries or they are just maniacs.  It is as simple as that!!!  If they were any different, then we would NEVER have to have this type of discussions.

Hi Wild,

Here, as you may have noticed, we discuss all kinds of things, not only charity issues, job vacations, apartment rental prices and church going.
Please let me know where in this forum the post you like best is. 

Scarletvn wrote:

I think I should haven't asked this question. Chill out, everyone!
Have a windy and good night! It's too hot out here!

Hi Scarlet,

Never blame yourself for what other folks do.
Always say what comes to your mind and feel free to post whatever crosses your mind.

You now have a wider audience than when you started this thread: there are 1,000,000 forummers here as of today.
This means increased chances to get a reply to your threads or posts, and if the post is bad, you do not really have to care sooooo muuuuch ...

Just play your part, OK? 

John C. wrote:

Hi Alex,

Thank you for your input.

Your post misses one point only.
Sometimes a man reaches a point in life when he does not necessarily want the same old classic marriage (which does not work with lots of people) anymore.

That man wants fun.

Who cares if a young lady lies as long as she is eager to please? 

Hi John,

Thanks also for your answer.

I don't think I missed that point, in fact, the main thing is that I try to see this from a young vn girl point of view, at least I try! You seem to see that from a westerner point of view. That changes everything I think...

Not all the foreigners are visiting Asia for having fun with girls. But I too heard some times some visitors criticize Asian countries badly. Not only about girls or poverty but also education system, government laws and regulations, foods and lodging, infrastructure facilities, religious beliefs, customs, culture and more. The joke is, this same person visits back Asia again and again and wants to start a business  or retire here!! 

Arent we all just humans trying to exist? Some humans don't have the same values as others. Try to avoid areas where the people who don't have the same values as you congregate. If another person forces their values on you when they are not your values, politely and willfully let them know. It may teach them better values.

Why criticize the foreigners they better than most vn men, who get the lady pregnant and then they are off to the next lady. I see so many vn ladies looking for foreigner because they are sick and tired of being mistreated by vn dog's (men)
A foreign man generally has more appreciation for the vn woman. Some foreign men from Russia and Germany are horrible people never smiling and fighting with the hotel clerks and restaurant managers and cannot speak english. They walk around like big bald headed Pit Bull Dogs, so ugly in every sense of the word with very arrogant attitudes. I found this in Nha Trang and Pattaya Thailand.  Many foreign men are used by the vn and Thai woman. Let's talk about the Gold Diggers we have here. Not a pretty picture, Getting married for money is nothing less than a high class whore. When you slam a group lets slam everybody in vn and the foreigners. I have to weed out the Gold Diggers so as not to be used. I Love VN and the people as a whole and I overlook the few bad ones Expats and vn iPhone, iPad thieves. 
All of you should just shut up and stop being so negative, Get a life!!!  If some expat is rude just kick him in the ass and tell him to go to Siberia if he doesn't like it here!!! We need to teach the rude expats a lesson!!!

no1eyeno wrote:

Why criticize the foreigners they better than most vn men, who get the lady pregnant and then they are off to the next lady.

Supposing I understand your comment the right way, and with no willing in being offensive, how can you pretend that??? For sure VN men in here will appreciate your comment!
Do you really think some VN men's attitude is their exclusivity? Don't you think this kind of men exists all around the world? I see so many girls here in France also that have exactly the same problem, and I guess we can find some in ANY country, including yours (don't know which one is it though).

no1eyeno wrote:

Some foreign men from Russia and Germany are horrible people

So, if I summarize now, foreigners are better than most vn men, but not all foreigners, not from all countries... That sounds strange no? What would you say about foreigners from your country (I still don't know which one it is, but I can imagine your answer...).

no1eyeno wrote:

If some expat is rude just kick him in the ass and tell him to go to Siberia if he doesn't like it here!!! We need to teach the rude expats a lesson!!!

100% (at least!) agree with this!!! :-)
And I do think this is a much more clever way of thinking!

Again, I do hope I was not offensive with you in my comment and that you got my mind.
Sorry for my bad english! :-)

i come to vietnam for the beaches, warm sun and friendly people.Some people look at me as a wealthy man from a different county.Well maybe by their standards i am well to do.I come because it is cheaper to live here than back home.I would love to teach two Math classes a day and really immerse myself in your culture.I have taught hundreds of american vietnamese students back home and fell in love with the people. Why do the people here think I am looking for sex,just because i stroll the beaches alone . There is something magical about being in Nha Trang or Bangkok,even HCM,though the traffic can be a bit much.I know for myself there has been a pulling of my heart to be in Southeast Asia.Every time i come over I think it is my last time ,only to be here again 2 years later.I know i am a visitor to your country and i try be respectable and just go with the flow.I tip when the service is good and if people try to take advantage of me ,I let them know.Most times i find myself in the same hotels because the people treat me fairly.Some of us just want to enjoy your country.

Please know there are bad in every nation, but I spent Tet Holiday season in Vietnam this year and met some very fine people there. I spent most of the trip in Phu Nhuan and Go Vap, but took a trip to Nha Trang  and beyond. Even with the language barrier I was treated very well by the Vietnamese I met in all areas. The only negative event I experienced was I had my 'dummy' wallet stolen while at the fireworks in District 1 for Tet. I imagine they thought they had a real find, but I always carry a 'dummy' wallet when traveling.

I saw Vietnamese go out of their way to speak, show kindness and even invite me into their home with such a great language barrier. I for one know you can find good and bad in all walks of life and in all countries(including the USA, where I am from). I always try to leave a good impression of one from the USA on my travels. I hope I show this as well as the Vietnamese showed it to me.

Hello Alex,  I would never criticize anybody's English, I am happy the world is learning one universal language, A common denominator so we can communicate. Being RUDE backfired on the French if you did not speak with the correct pronunciation they would give you the wrong directions or worse. Now they want to know english as a whole.
no1eyeno wrote:
Some foreign men from Russia and Germany are horrible people
So, if I summarize now, foreigners are better than most vn men, but not all foreigners, not from all countries... That sounds strange no? What would you say about foreigners from your country (I still don't know which one it is, but I can imagine your answer...).
In December I saw Big pissed off Russian thugs arguing with a Hotel clerk in Hua Hin and the Educated VN just let it go!!! These are the only people that talk down to the locals. Very mean people.  A few years before in Thailand I would smile and say Hi to the German people and they never smiled like someone is out to steal their $500 camera. I tell them to smile your on vacation in the Land of Smiles. I have a extreme sensitivity to cold stern people from these countries. I am happy all the time as most of the Thai people are including the very poor. I see less happiness in Viet Nam over all, It's not instant smiling and I am not complaining this just my observation. My friend who married a vn lady told me I could find a Miss Universe here that had a baby because it is hard for her to find a husband, She is used like tainted goods and not wanted by a vn man. I only know what I experience, see, feel and hear. I've had the pleasure of spending time on the beaches and Mountains of Vietnam and Thailand and I enjoy both so much. I don't care for Saigon or Bangkok. I head to the Beautiful places where where there are few Expats sucking on beer and shoving cigarettes in their pie hole on their pension checks until they are on oxygen or chemo therapy!!! I never understood expats drinking 6 quarts of beer a day hanging out with other expats. But then again the ones I knew were English and Irish and the California U.S. types enjoyed a Ice Coffee or fresh Coconut. This is what I see and everybody see's something different. I'm just a Photographer that see's 50% more than the rest. Photography teaches you to see. Sick people teach you how to live to the fullest. I took care of a old VN lady dying of cancer in Torrence, California and I asked her husband by her side if there was a place that was cool in Vietnam and He said " Da Lat " and I came here and fell in Love with the country. My simple answer about Russian Bald Headed Mafia Fat Thugs. They are maggots on the face of the earth to me...........

Alex82Alex wrote:

@Scarletvn

I do loved what you wrote about your thoughts and feelings. I do understand what you mean in some part quite agree with you.
But keep in mind that :
- you can't be loved by everybody. There are billions people around the world. You will always find this kind of "big belly fat ass old man" you're talking about who spend their days behind a screen to spread their weak existence and their night at bar with girls. Don't even give a shit to these people. They don't live in the same world and bring nothing to others.
- as high as one's sitting, one's only sitting on his ass.
- money can't buy love and friendship
- criticism is easy, art is difficult
- ignorance is the worst insult.

Sometimes these, "big belly fat ass old men," are the same blue eyed young guys that helped everyone when they were young.  As we get older, our perspectives can change.  Maybe this is what is happening to you "scarletvn."  If you let that happen, then maybe you will become the compliment of the "big belly fat ass old man," or the reason/justification for his behavior, because there is no question that there are foreigners and locals, both, that are despised by many.

I am from the United States.  Eden Prairie, Minnesota to be specific.  I live in Can Tho, Viet Nam.  I have only been here a little over a month but have found the city and its people delightful.  The people are warm, friendly and always helpful.  The children, in my neighborhood, all know me by my name.  As I walk down the street I will see neighbors who always smile and speak to me.  People that I don't know smile and greet me with "hello".  I believe everyone in Can Tho knows the word "hello".  It makes me smile.

I read the post "Why are some foreigners - especially expats - hostile" with sadness and disappointment.  I cannot imagine why anyone would go to another country (in my case Viet Nam) and conduct themselves in a rude manner.  It is only a poor reflection on them and not the people that they treat with rudeness.  I feel sorry for them.  All I can tell them is that if they are unhappy with the people and the country where they are staying then they are welcomed to go back to their own country.

So, I am writing this post to apologize on behalf of all the expats, in Viet Nam, who are not rude and hostile..  We thank you for welcoming us into your beautiful country.  We appreciate the kindness and helpfulness that you have shown us since we have been here.  And I hope you know that we are very proud to call Viet Nam our adopted country.  Those of us, like myself, consider ourselves to be proud Vietnamese citizens.  And we hope that you do not consider all expats as rude and hostile.

Charlie Thiem

Im sorry that you feel this way about expacts, and as Charlie has just apologized i would like to do the same. Im very happy to be in your country, i love VN, i have found the people on the whole to be kind, and wecoming. I like talking tp people, but its my wife whos the one thats not keen. She always  thinks that they want to talk to me purley for there own gain. She is Vietnamise and distrusts the Viets more than i do. I have been comming to Vietnam for the past ten years when i met my now wife. We have only been married for two years, im twenty years older than her, so i wasent sure if it woild work, and she is buitiful, where as i am no oil painting, im not rich eighter. I have seen alot of changes in VN, a lot more crime. Where as ten years ago she could leave her bag any where and it wouldent be stolen. Not now. Many younger people are invoved in heroin in NhaTrang and dont belive in budda, thats a very bad thing. We have many Russians here, im sorry they are shit people who talk to the viets like they have just fallen out the back of a dogs arse. Please dont tar all us epacts with the same brush.

Same old repeated garbage, ( on the same often repeated thread ), and as usual from ' Ex Pat ' visitors, or ones who have only been here for 5 minutes, wait until you have actually lived here for a few years, and we will see what your views are then, ( and meet a few more VN's, not just the ones that want something from you ). Also listen to your VN wive's, no one knows a VN better, than another VN.
  Here is a saying , told to me by a VN, ' VN's never say what they mean, and never mean what they say ', and there are very few exceptions.

Man, Bluenz.  You sound like you have some serious issues.  Are you still in VN?  If so, why?  If I felt the way you do about a people I sure would not be in their country.

Mr. Bluenz, I am glad I found the ultimate expert on Expats and Vietnamese people. I was confused before.
In what situation would I not trust a Vietnamese?
Do you trust your wife?
How much does she contribute to the cost of living in your household?  50% ?
Interesting how you put down our conversation with nothing to contribute.
I hope you can shed some light on this conversation by you Our new Almighty Sage?
We are just expressing our feeling of our experience. I am sure where you live is totally different
than Saigon. And yes I have been to your town for a brief visit and I did not find the attraction
compared to other nicer places in Vietnam.

Well said, My. No1eyeNo.  Thank you.

Sounds like someones got a Bee up there arse!!