Foreign restaurants, chains, franchises- Are they ruining HCMC?

You being a new member and telling people to get back on topic didnt win you any new friends.

jademan wrote:

How can I dismiss your opinion before I know what it is? Please, tell me. Are fast-food chains destroying HCMC? Take a stand and support it.

(1) no, they are not
(2) they are too expensive to be anything but as occasional lark fir the wealthiest Vietnamese.
(3) Vietnamese people prefer Vietnamese food.  Lower class people won't even touch the other half of Chinese food that isn't already incorporated into their own cuisine.
(4) "HCMC" is already destroyed.  It's crowded, polluted, loud. 

And I think using a word like "destroyed" about a few western franchises is cartoonishly hyperbolic and undermines any actual point there might be mixed in with all the hysteria.

And BTW in the USA I ate more Vietnamese food than any VK.

And, really, WHAT is the difference between cơm gà rán at KFC and cơm gà chiên at a kiosk?

This thread may not be about where to find the best burger but in fact I found the information useful. Why can't we deviate from the main topic as long as we get back on track? These threads are conversations and the fact they wander a bit makes it all the more interesting.

To me, the fast food industry has morphed into a social poison, I myself am addicted to Coca Cola and KFC, and they will most certainly be a factor in my death. Pollution is a problem, teenage pregnancies are a problem and so is the number of automobiles displacing motorbikes. But each problem needs to be talked about and brought into the publics' awareness; it's called social education. The government of Vietnam made a mistake when they decided to let them all in this last year. The people in their ignorance flock to the trough of excess and keep the money boys happy. Did you know that Vietnam has almost the highest percentage of smokers in the world? The populace is uninformed and ripe for plundering

Have I said too much?
There's nothing more I can think of to say to you.
But all you have to do is look at me to know
That every word is true

Yeah, talking about hamburgers when a sixth of the county dies of smoking related causes is a little screwy.

Clock DVA wrote:

jademan wrote:

How can I dismiss your opinion before I know what it is? Please, tell me. Are fast-food chains destroying HCMC? Take a stand and support it.

(1) no, they are not
(2) they are too expensive to be anything but as occasional lark fir the wealthiest Vietnamese.
(3) Vietnamese people prefer Vietnamese food.  Lower class people won't even touch the other half of Chinese food that isn't already incorporated into their own cuisine.
(4) "HCMC" is already destroyed.  It's crowded, polluted, loud. 

And I think using a word like "destroyed" about a few western franchises is cartoonishly hyperbolic and undermines any actual point there might be mixed in with all the hysteria.

And BTW in the USA I ate more Vietnamese food than any VK.

And, really, WHAT is the difference between cơm gà rán at KFC and cơm gà chiên at a kiosk?

Unbelievable. Have you even read any of the past posts?  Or did you just sign up to troll..
All of the irrational rhetoric you are spewing into your keyboard has already been stated. If there is a point in particular that you wish to contest- then do so. Coherently. But if you have absolutely nothing new to express to the topic except further bitchiness- then I suggest you stop. Your actually further proving the insanity and shallow consumeristic nature of people who would support these chains. I ask you- Who in their right mind would support these chains? & for what reasons? - unless of course they have vested interests. I gather that you do support them Clock DVA? But most likely- you simply don't care or think that HCMC is 'already destroyed' anyhow. Perhaps you are just behaving blindly patriotic to American owned conglomerates for no particular reason, who knows. & frankly, who cares..

As for the long ago discussed notion that there are bigger problems- as I posted before- YES! I AGREE! THERE ARE! - There should be more threads & discussion on these problems!- So.... why don't you start a thread on one CLOCK DVA? - instead of taking such an apologist & defeatist attitude to this 'tiny' issue?
I really can't be bothered with you buddy- because it feels as if I am repeating myself-  or even addressing someone who has already posted under another name....But anyway, just for you, precious. 
1) -
2) - See my last post - find something you can contest or refute- but while I'm here- I might add that driving past Burger King today I saw a meal advertised on the window selling a small hamburger fries and coke for 38,000 vnd - roughly the same price as a bowl of phở in D1 - give or take.
3) Simply Not true. (Again- see previous posts)- Especially amongst the youth who are gradually becoming very enthusiastic about 'western food' and unfortunately think- through lack of education- that most 'western food' is the same or very similar to 'fast food' . If you've ever taught children or teenagers then you'd know this. But clearly you haven't- or perhaps you are infact a teenager yourself- who's 'lovin it' ?
4 - With an attitude like that I don't understand why you would post on any topic related to anything Vietnamese. Infact I don't understand why you are even in Vietnam.  Why are you in Vietnam? Your lack of respect and attitude to the place is seriously unimpressive. & quite frankly- it's fucking offensive. I'd strongly suggest you return to America if you are not happy here. You are creating a bad reputation for other foreigners who actually love this city, through all it's imperfections & problems.

"And, really, WHAT is the difference between cơm gà rán at KFC and cơm gà chiên at a kiosk?"

I could list a hundred- realistically- but heres a couple:
cơm gà chiên isn't served with an option to upsize- or in a value meal- or with a coke.
cơm gà chiên is sold largely by independent Vietnamese vendors or small Vietnamese owned businesses whose livelihoods depend upon it.
cơm gà chiên kiosks do not evade or create a tacky, imposing, always the same, sterile landscape or environment- They do not ruin the atmosphere. They add to it.
BTW- I think the fact that KFC is selling rice dishes in asia is sickening. & further proof that citizens who buy rice dishes from KFC have in some way been brainwashed by the strong marketing campaigns these chains push. Powerful campaigns indeed- to convince asian people to buy an asian dish from an an American fast food restaurant..

Again CLOCK DVA- I very much look forward to a new thread about one of the many very important issues that you obviously seem to care so deeply about....Maybe smoking first?

I do believe wrote:

This thread may not be about where to find the best burger but in fact I found the information useful. Why can't we deviate from the main topic as long as we get back on track? These threads are conversations and the fact they wander a bit makes it all the more interesting.

To me, the fast food industry has morphed into a social poison, I myself am addicted to Coca Cola and KFC, and they will most certainly be a factor in my death. Pollution is a problem, teenage pregnancies are a problem and so is the number of automobiles displacing motorbikes. But each problem needs to be talked about and brought into the publics' awareness; it's called social education. The government of Vietnam made a mistake when they decided to let them all in this last year. The people in their ignorance flock to the trough of excess and keep the money boys happy. Did you know that Vietnam has almost the highest percentage of smokers in the world? The populace is uninformed and ripe for plundering

Have I said too much?
There's nothing more I can think of to say to you.
But all you have to do is look at me to know
That every word is true

Hey 'I do believe'
Although I must confess I am not a major fan of your poetry,    I found your last post interesting, honest and heartfelt. I agree with everything you said. & I'm sorry about the addictions. If it's any consolation you should know- that it's courageous people like you- who are honest with themselves and others (like you've just shown) that really inspire people to action-(or even - lack of action- if that means not eating at or supporting these places). Anythings better than being passive, indifferent or just another mindless consumer.
I'd really like to learn some more about how and when you first got into KFC- so to speak- and when you realised you were addicted to it- or it had become a problem. I'm sure we might be able to learn something from your life experience on the topic & perhaps put it to use in our own.
Cheers mate. 

That was rude, enraged, and completely incoherent.  I'll only answer one item

The "if you don't like absolutely everything about Vietnam without reservation, then leave" shtick places you far below the salt intellectually. 

You're a fanatic.  I'd sooner argue against guns with Alex Jones.

The amount of hysteria in this thread is mind-boggling. Those painting an apocalyptic vision of Saigon in the future should get on a plane to Bangkok and see that foreign chains did not, in fact, destroy the local culture. In fact, seeing a curry stand in front of a KFC is an everyday occurrence. Some Thais pop into the former, others line up at the latter... depends on what they're in the mood for on that particular day. Not quite the doom and gloom scenario that you'd expect from reading some of the replies in this thread.

ssuprnova wrote:

The amount of hysteria in this thread is mind-boggling. Those painting an apocalyptic vision of Saigon in the future should get on a plane to Bangkok and see that foreign chains did not, in fact, destroy the local culture. In fact, seeing a curry stand in front of a KFC is an everyday occurrence. Some Thais pop into the former, others line up at the latter... depends on what they're in the mood for on that particular day. Not quite the doom and gloom scenario that you'd expect from reading some of the replies in this thread.

Don't confuse passion with hysteria; having a strong opinion on any topic can lead to interesting discussion. I wonder if you call the rebels in the Ukraine hysterical? By the way, I have been to Thailand a few times and I'm not sure your assurance of the health of Thai culture is correct.

I had to chuckle at some some of the sentiments attributed to me in that extended spew.  Patriotic?  Pro-corporate?  Moi?  I think dirt-loyalty is stupid and I'd put the fast food execs in the gas chamber.

America is increasingly loaded with phở restaurants.  People who usually ate Decent American Cuisine are destroying the local economy patronizing Vietnamese restaurants owned by Vietnamese who send billion back to their families here. 

I'm not tearing at my breast over that.

Based on the insularity of most Vietnamese toward their own cuisine, I find the idea that a bunch of western-enamored teenagers who think hamburger is cool are going to destroy the national character to be supremely ridiculous.  We take kids to the new food court and they don't get ice cream or pizza, they get noodles. 

This is a distraction.  Vietnam has far worse problems.  Health?  Franchise food is unbalanced, not toxic, meanwhile just about every man in the country smokes and in a densely populated city like Saigon the smoke is unbearable, at second-hand cancer levels.  Cultural adulteration?  What about that crap pop everyone plays?  One hell of a lot more pervasive than western food.

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This is what is being lost.

Ok I said I wasn't responding to this any further, but here's one more.  Sue me.

jonnybgood wrote:

I think the fact that KFC is selling rice dishes in asia is sickening. & further proof that citizens who buy rice dishes from KFC have in some way been brainwashed by the strong marketing campaigns these chains push. Powerful campaigns indeed- to convince asian people to buy an asian dish from an an American fast food restaurant..

You called out my noting that Saigon is polluted and crowded, both of which are objectively true. as "f*cking offensive." yet here you are saying that it takes brainwashing to get Asians to eat rice.  That the only reason people are buying barely-novel food is that they're helpless in the face of ad campaigns.  Doesn't get much more condescending than that.

I remember two years ago eating at a KFC in Nình Kiêu and hearing a woman come in and ask if they served rice, and walking out when the answer was no.  Multiply this by a few million and the fact that KFC serves rice combos is an Asian country really isn't all that nefarious or manipulative, and methinks you need to get a goddamn grip.  Fact is chicken and rice go well together in any cuisine and don't be surprised if there's feedback in the USA and it goes on the menu there, too.  Which is a hell of a lot healthier than those grease-laden french fries that are the starch standard in the west. 

Again CLOCK DVA- I very much look forward to a new thread about one of the many very important issues that you obviously seem to care so deeply about....Maybe smoking first?

I can save you and the other readers a lot of time.  Smoking is deadly, nicotine is addictive, and an authoritarian govenment has the power to simply lower the boom and say "no more," which is exactly that I think they should do.

And that really is all I have to say in reponse to that insulting rant.

jademan wrote:

Relax dirtypierre. Bitchiness and ridicule? Please show me where I engaged in such and I will repent. I made a simple observation about your post. Apparently, you got offended.

Dear Jademan,
I wasn't referring to you but pointing out that the forum had changed from when I joined it. Then it was a mine of information with expats helping each other. It has now lowered itself to a forum of bitchiness and ridicule and I want no part of it. My time here in Vietnam is filled doing my charity work and when I had spare time I found the forum was a relaxing place to go to and if I could help someone it was a bonus. I don't find it a nice place to go to anymore.  Hence my permanent departure from this forum.  If there is anyone on this forum who would like to something good for the disadvantaged in this country they only need to Google my name and go to my website and see the work I do here and if they want to join me on one of my projects they can email me direct at the address on my website.

I do believe wrote:

Don't confuse passion with hysteria; having a strong opinion on any topic can lead to interesting discussion. I wonder if you call the rebels in the Ukraine hysterical? By the way, I have been to Thailand a few times and I'm not sure your assurance of the health of Thai culture is correct.

I'm not. "Hysteria - an uncontrollable outburst of emotion or fear, often characterized by irrationality, laughter, weeping, etc." Announcing the imminent "destruction" of Vietnamese culture because a burger joint opened up qualifies as "irrational" in my books.

Also, what's wrong with Thai culture?

Unrelated to the topic at hand, but I still need the feel to address this: As for the Ukraine example, I wouldn't categorize them as "hysterical". The situation is much more complex, but the crux of the issue is that a small group of bloodthirsty brutes bent on destruction managed to hijack a peaceful demonstration and turn it into a full-scale coup.

This forum is ending up exactly what its like when you have a group of expats around, a real bitch fight. That is the reason I keep away from most expats, especially the ones that frequent D1 and PNL. Open discussion is healthy, but as usual it has turned into a nasty name calling game of tennis.

In relation to this website, I find it very useful and interesting to hear others points of view. I tried Anh Phu neighbours, but that is just a bunch of compound living,anal know-it-alls. Cant stand that area due to the amount of wankers that reside there.Hopefully we can all get back to giving and receiving helpful information that gives us all a better understanding of the place we call home.

DirtyPierre wrote:

jademan wrote:

Relax dirtypierre. Bitchiness and ridicule? Please show me where I engaged in such and I will repent. I made a simple observation about your post. Apparently, you got offended.

Dear Jademan,
I wasn't referring to you but pointing out that the forum had changed from when I joined it. Then it was a mine of information with expats helping each other. It has now lowered itself to a forum of bitchiness and ridicule and I want no part of it. My time here in Vietnam is filled doing my charity work and when I had spare time I found the forum was a relaxing place to go to and if I could help someone it was a bonus. I don't find it a nice place to go to anymore.  Hence my permanent departure from this forum.  If there is anyone on this forum who would like to something good for the disadvantaged in this country they only need to Google my name and go to my website and see the work I do here and if they want to join me on one of my projects they can email me direct at the address on my website.

If I may quote Treebeard, "Don't be hasty."

I arrived here about a year ago, if that, and found a forum dominated by a small clique of nasty-grimies who all knew each other, reinforced each other, and flooded every thread with nasty attacks.  Two of them had VIP status and were markedly exempt from any of the alleged rules.  One of them had clearly cast himself as the alpha male of the forum and was furious when not the center of attention.  I never saw the halcyon days you refer to and based on other such recollections I suspect you're romanticizing times that while decidedly better than now, were not as idyllic as you portray.

Hang around.

I do charity work too, but like you and unlike Ông α, I don't blast the forum with it.

Hey what's up Chris?  Still banned I see.  Gotta log in as a Guest to continue spouting your ire?  You must be talking about me and Wild_1 as we are the two that have VIP statuses...while you, keep getting banned and can't take a hint that you're not welcomed.  Wild_1 doesn't come here anymore because of you, so I'll at least respond to you.

I do not "blast the forum" with our charity work.  If you search "Convoy For Babies", you'll find about 5 threads about it because each thread is dedicated for each run and is used as a management tool.  I do posts these events to allow Expats who want to help locals but do not know how, a chance to participate.  It's not complicated - you get on a motorbike and ride while stopping by a store to buy baby formula and bring it to an orphanage.  I make it fun and am very transparent.  Julien and the Expat-Team knows this and has been very supportive of this.  So far, 3 Australians, 2 Canadian, 2 Malaysian, and 2 Americans Expats have participated. 

You must not like social outings since obviously only you have a problem with it and keep bringing it up.

As for your "clique" comment.  You could say the same about this entire forum...and you being banned so many times, is excluded from this large clique.  Get the hint yet?

Now...back to an animated discussion about franchises and how they affect local culture shall we?

http://foodtank.com/news/2013/08/wester … iabetes-sk

DId you know that McDonalds opens 10 new restaurants a week in China?

I also learnt today that McDonalds is the worlds largest distributer of toys. Strange fact..

Hello everyone. I found an interesting article concerning the effects of McDonalds & other fast food restaurants- Not in Vietnam- but China. I think it's rather important. & relevant.. So if you've got a minute..

Perhaps we could learn something from China's experience of McDonalds & fast food?

I went to a Starbucks once in the Bangkok airport terminal in 2007. I wanted to find out why so many people went to Starbucks. After seeing their prices for coffee, I decided that I could live my life without ever really trying their coffee.

Since we're talking about coffee chains. Here is just one example of how a foreign coffee chain has destroyed an important piece of HCMC's recent history and culture .
The historic Brodard Café, immortalised by Graham Greene in 'The Quiet American'- and by countless other correspondents, journalists and assorted cats such as; Tim Page, Paul Martin- During the time of the American & Indo- china wars. It's since been replaced by a Gloria Jeans coffee shop.

Of course there are many other examples of these chains destroying aspects of culture- one recent that jademan  stated above. But I guess some would rather 'quibble'. Sad.
We will most likely- see much more cultural destruction in numerous shapes & forms in the near future from these chains- as they are now beginning, aggressively to open up shop everywhere..
I can't see 10 McDonalds opening a week in Vietnam- as they currently are in China-  because of obvious demographic differences. But I would be interested to know their plans/quotas here. Starbucks, BurgerKing and the others included.

I think the VN government is doing a better job at destroying cultural sites, knocking down old buildings and replacing them with ugly modern glass and steel structures. Nothing is safe from the profiteering politicians.

jademan wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

I think the VN government is doing a better job at destroying cultural sites, knocking down old buildings and replacing them with ugly modern glass and steel structures. Nothing is safe from the profiteering politicians.

No argument here. Don't forget: Not protecting the forests from rampant illegal logging, not enforcing building codes, allowing greedy developers to pollute  Nha Trang Bay, not doing nearly enough to protect Ha Long Bay and so on.

Agree 100%, enviromental issues and animal cruelty are things that need to be address rather sooner then later.

colinoscapee wrote:

I think the VN government is doing a better job at destroying cultural sites, knocking down old buildings and replacing them with ugly modern glass and steel structures. Nothing is safe from the profiteering politicians.

Thats very true. It's a matter of consent. That's why I was using Australia and some other European countries as examples earlier - in regards to food chains.
Although you still see a new one open up here & there in Australia (And now almost always with protest of some kind)- They are not opening anywhere near as rapidly as previous. Also there are complex restrictions which determine whether the restaurant will interfere or disturb local business & atmosphere, demographic or 'feeling' of a space. There is no way now, a commercial fast food chain would be allowed to set up, even in eyesight of something considered historical or heritage. I imagine that in countries or cities with much stronger, historically prevalent cultures than Australia- especially in Europe- a country such as say, Italy- these rules/restrictions would be much more fervent. Partly due to the damaging effects they have already experienced.
It's a shame to see that the VN government pays little respect to it's cultural sites in this way. Especially considering the great history & rich culture it survives. But this kind of thing is a relatively new phenomenon here- as it is a developing country. I certainly can't say that through the 70's- Australia wasn't also partial to unhealthy investment & 'Americanisation' from McDonalds etc. with the help of our own profiteering politicians. Infact our politicians are still of the same one-eyed mindset today. The only difference is that through democratic process and common community driven concerns- our voices were to an extent, addressed- & some important restrictions were created. However I fear I may be overstating- Australia STILL has a huge problem with these chains today.
Also in relation to what you posted-  I believe an old historical cultural site was also razed to make way for where the VINCOM centre now stands. What a fantastic decision... I mean, such a unique structure! No doubt soon there will be a McDonalds and Starbucks in there too.

colinoscapee wrote:

I think the VN government is doing a better job at destroying cultural sites, knocking down old buildings and replacing them with ugly modern glass and steel structures. Nothing is safe from the profiteering politicians.

But,but,but......
Isn't that how developing nations are supposed to develop their own countries?
Watch a few American movies and emulate the scenery and behaviour from the screen.

What about the classic old French buildings?
"Colonialism forced it upon them.Glass high rises are clean and modern."

What about the classic neighbourhood restaurants and the little places for morning local coffee?
"Outdated and unfashionable by western media standards.Fast food chains and Coffee house franchises are clean and modern."

Well how about the loss of culture?
"There is NO loss of culture!TMuseums and archive footage is still permitted.Modern society is clean and modern"

Spahn Ranch wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

I went to a Starbucks once in the Bangkok airport terminal in 2007. I wanted to find out why so many people went to Starbucks. After seeing their prices for coffee, I decided that I could live my life without ever really trying their coffee.

Have you tried it?  It's worth the price.  It's real coffee, not 60% ground roasted corn and soybeans like street coffee here.  It's a piece of the high life that most anyone (in the west) can afford.  They pioneered that.  We may never own Gulfstreams or Ferrari F50s but nobody can have qualitatively better coffee than us thanks to Starbucks.

But, lousy ersatz coffee with enough sugar to cause diabetes is a precious piece of tradition.

Welcome back Chris,
I just called the Vegas sports books and you are at -460 to be banned in less than 24 hours. So that's $460 to win $100. I made the bet.

I hope McDonalds brings back the Hamburglar, that way I can go on a crime spree and blame it all on McDonalds. It must be nice living in a world where we can blame others else for our own personal choices.

Parmyd wrote:

I hope McDonalds brings back the Hamburglar, that way I can go on a crime spree and blame it all on McDonalds. It must be nice living in a world where we can blame others else for our own personal choices.

Dear parmyd,
I'm sorry basic rational analysis is beyond your capability.
But you don't need McDonalds to become a burglar, parmyd. Besides, based on the merits of your previous comments- you've already proven you're a burglar of sorts..
I'd currently rank you as 'Oxygen Thief.'

I don't care much for Starbucks insipid coffee and it's incredibly overpriced. The profit margins must be enormous. A traditional Vietnamese drip coffee with a touch of the white stuff with ice tops anything Starbucks puts out. I wonder why Tim Hortons isn't coming to Vietnam, eh?

jademan wrote:

Spahn Ranch wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

I went to a Starbucks once in the Bangkok airport terminal in 2007. I wanted to find out why so many people went to Starbucks. After seeing their prices for coffee, I decided that I could live my life without ever really trying their coffee.

Have you tried it?  It's worth the price.  It's real coffee, not 60% ground roasted corn and soybeans like street coffee here.  It's a piece of the high life that most anyone (in the west) can afford.  They pioneered that.  We may never own Gulfstreams or Ferrari F50s but nobody can have qualitatively better coffee than us thanks to Starbucks.

But, lousy ersatz coffee with enough sugar to cause diabetes is a precious piece of tradition.

Starbucks is so fortunate to have people like you , Spahn Ranch, to do free advertising for them!

For the record, when it comes to coffee drinks and roasting, SB pioneered nothing. NOTHING. You imply that nobody knew how to make a decent cappucino or Cafe Au Lait before SB. Then only thing they pioneered was a business model. A 'take-over-the-coffee-retail-industry' model, which they have been quite successful at. I don't know how old you are SR, but I'm guessing you are in your 20s. Perhaps you don't even remember a time before SB. I do. There were thousands of excellent coffee shops all over the USA, many of which were driven out of business by SB. But hey, I guess that's just life in a free market utopia, eh Spahn Ranch?

Just as Wal-Mart bankrupted many general stores, Home Depot bankrupted the local hardware store and so on, SB used the same approach to dominate the retail coffee market.

As for Vietnamese coffee, granted the stuff on the street is dubious quality, at best. But I look around the city and I see plenty of options for decent coffee, including HighLands, Trung Nguyen and many others. Seriously Spanh Ranch, SB doesn't need you to shill for them.

i do like an occasional frapuccino at SB but Starbucks is highend coffee?   this coming from the same guy that said Vietnamese food in the US is better than local fare?   lol...is this you again chrisfox?

jonnybgood wrote:

Parmyd wrote:

I hope McDonalds brings back the Hamburglar, that way I can go on a crime spree and blame it all on McDonalds. It must be nice living in a world where we can blame others else for our own personal choices.

Dear parmyd,
I'm sorry basic rational analysis is beyond your capability.
But you don't need McDonalds to become a burglar, parmyd. Besides, based on the merits of your previous comments- you've already proven you're a burglar of sorts..
I'd currently rank you as 'Oxygen Thief.'

I do not think anyone is capable of rational analysis with the hyperbolic diatribes you post. The entire world knows that fast food is not healthy. But you are not on a mission to educate people on eating healthy and good nutrition, you are on a crusade to rid a country of a culture that you deem unfit. Eighty or so years ago another guy, Adolph, decided he knew what culture was best for a country and that did not work out to well for the world. Yes, I can make hyperbolic comments also.

If communities in Australia decided what was best for their communities then so be it. So if the Vietnamese decide to tear down a dilapidated rat infested buildings to make way for something more modern, that is their choice. It is neither your decision nor mine to make. I guess if you had your way the Vietnamese people would not be happy unless they were still living in bamboo huts and starving to death.

Here's more fuel to feed the fire in the discussion of fast food and franchises.  Read it in the paper today.

Fast food consumers pay a hefty price

These are the highlights:

VietNamNet Bridge – Fried chicken, hamburger and pizza are often the first choices of HCM City children when their parents ask them what they would like to eat.

Farmers don't benefit from global fast food chains

"Fast food is quick and convenient," Trang said. "And I'm too lazy to cook on weekends."

The plethora of TV commercials and advertisements for fast food restaurants is also contributing to the problem, she said.
Children are especially vulnerable to such advertisements, she said.

With such expected growth, particularly in larger cities such as HCM City and Ha Noi, healthcare experts are concerned about the rising obesity rate.
Speaking at an international conference held in HCM City last year, Professor Le Thi Hop, former head of the Viet Nam Nutrition Association, said that obesity had risen among pre-school to high school students, both in urban and rural areas.
She blamed the problem on the proliferation of fast-food restaurants.
According to a report from the Institute of Social and Medical Studies, the rate of obesity and overweight children is higher than the average rate in Asia.
In HCM City, for example, the rate for both categories (obesity and weight over the accepted standard) is 9.6 per cent.
In the city's inner districts, the rate has risen to more than 12 per cent, while the global rate is 6.9 per cent.
The HCM City Nutrition Centre said the rate had risen ninefold over the last decade among primary school students in the city.
Dr Tin of the city's Paediatric Hospital's nutrition ward said that fast food was high in calories, fat and sodium as well as starch, which can increase appetite.
Such restaurants often serve meals with a soft drink packed with sugar. Few vegetables and fruit are offered, she said.

Dr Nguyen Thi Thu Hau, head of Paediatrics Hospital No. 2's nutrition ward, said that fast food did not contain enough vitamins and minerals as well as micro-nutrients.
She also noted that fatty foods can raise lipids in the blood, leading to hypertension, diabetes and heart disease. Meals can also be full of salt, which can lead to hypertension and other problems.
Hau said that children's bones were more susceptible to weakening because of obesity. Moreover, a diet heavy in fast food can contribute to early puberty and lowered immunity against chronic non-infectious diseases.
Tin added that nonalcoholic fatty liver disease is common in children with obesity.

Although mostly benign, some children with NAFLD develop nonalcoholic steatohepatitis, which may advance to cirrhosis and end-stage liver disease fibrosis and cirrhosis.

Of 1,748 children with obesity treated at Tin's hospital between 1998 and 2008, 30.6 per cent were diagnosed with NAFLD, she said.
Tin said that the number of advertisements of fast food and processed foods should be limited on television and in publications.

Treating obese children is especially difficult because they often refuse to follow treatment and maintain schedules, she added.

A 2012 study by the University of British Columbia, the results of which were published in the New York Times and other media, showed that banning fast-food advertising to children could be an effective deterrent.

The research found that a 32-year ban on fast-food advertising on TV and in print publications in Quebec Province in Canada resulted in a 13 percent reduction in fast-food expenditures and an estimated 2-4 billion fewer calories consumed by children in the province. The province has the lowest obesity rate of children in Canada, the university said.

And while on obesity and its link to fast-food, here's a good write-up in Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in … ted_States



My position is that fast food does contribute to the obesity epidemic.  This is a fact. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in … tates#Diet

HCMC will have more obese people in the future.

Interesting THD, obesity started... before McD even opened its first outlet.
Another point: obesity follows the more prosperous towns and cities.
There is more definite co-relation between Wealth and Prosperity with Obesity.
We should therefore stop being progressive and return to be farmers. 

Hey Trung Hung Dao,
Excellent post. Thanks for sharing the links. I didn't know about that news site. I will be using many of those stats and facts in class. Everyone should become familiar with them.
So McDonalds only uses tomatoes & salad from Vietnam. Imports everything else. I'm sure a few VN business students would be interested in that fact. Interesting that they market themselves as having 'high standards' to Vietnamese farmers & create an environment where farmers 'must compete fiercely with other suppliers in the prices.' Considering that back in the west- McDonalds reputation at home- is of the lowest & most questionable grade possible. Especially in regards to their meat & poultry. Until very recently they were using ammonium hydroxide (also used in cleaning agents like 'windex') to kill off bacteria. Who knows what they put in it now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCqKl4Q3hW4

Vietnamese coffee tastes like charred pencil shavings unless it's from Trung Nguyên or Highlands.  Displacing that swill with real coffee is an improvement and if if has to come from foreign sources, well, whose fault is that?

And maybe if they could make a cup of coffee that didn't taste like a grass fire they wouldn't have to add that sugared milk bilge and there would be one hell of a lot less diabetes and obesdity here.  Gee, y'think?

A cà phê đá at TN costs as much as a latté.  And their coffee is barely passable.

Did anyone actually read that?  hELLnoi already spotted one of the more obvious pieces of spurious data; here is a more glaring one:

The research found that a 32-year ban on fast-food advertising on TV and in print publications in Quebec Province in Canada resulted in a 13 percent reduction in fast-food expenditures and an estimated 2-4 billion fewer calories consumed by children in the province

That is a 1/8 drop with a complete cessation of advertising exposure.  Over 32 years, a 13% change is stasticcally unattributable to any single factor and the loss of advertiaing exposure should have pushed it down many times as far.

This is a junk statistic.  In a shorter period in the USA tobacco consumption was more than halved.  And tobacco is addictive.

Socialist Extrovert wrote:

Did anyone actually read that?  hELLnoi already spotted one of the more obvious pieces of spurious data; here is a more glaring one:

The research found that a 32-year ban on fast-food advertising on TV and in print publications in Quebec Province in Canada resulted in a 13 percent reduction in fast-food expenditures and an estimated 2-4 billion fewer calories consumed by children in the province

That is a 1/8 drop with a complete cessation of advertising exposure.  Over 32 years, a 13% change is stasticcally unattributable to any single factor and the loss of advertiaing exposure should have pushed it down many times as far.

This is a junk statistic.  In a shorter period in the USA tobacco consumption was more than halved.  And tobacco is addictive.

The province of Quebec in Canada has the lowest childhood obesity rates in the country despite having one of the most sedentary lifestyles. How is that possible? A study by Tirtha Dhar and Kathy Baylis found that Quebec's 32 year ban on advertising to children led to an estimated:

*US$88 million annual reduction in expenditures on fast food

*13.4 billion to 18.4 billion fewer fast food calories being consumed per year

The study also found that patterns established in childhood carried into adulthood, with French speaking young adults in Quebec being 38% less likely to purchase fast food than French speaking young adults in Ontario (where there is no advertising ban).





Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/advertising … z2ui8ZjNHY

jademan wrote:

I do believe wrote:

I don't care much for Starbucks insipid coffee and it's incredibly overpriced. The profit margins must be enormous. A traditional Vietnamese drip coffee with a touch of the white stuff with ice tops anything Starbucks puts out. I wonder why Tim Hortons isn't coming to Vietnam, eh?

Right on. And they can't even be bothered to give you the overpriced coffee in a real mug or glass. Even if you order it 'for here', they still sling you the paper cup, with their prominent logo, which they hope you will take and walk around with. More free advertising. Also, less work for them (no dish washing), and more wasteful.

This is petulant.  You're whining and you stopped making any useful point a long time ago, unless the point is "I hate Starbucks," which I think most readers get by now.

At least paper is biodegradable, unlike that plastic cup, straw, and bag you have to take from the street sellers.

jonnybgood wrote:

*US$88 million annual reduction in expenditures on fast food

*13.4 billion to 18.4 billion fewer fast food calories being consumed per year

Without knowing the initial expenditures and calories these are just numbers.  Out of how many dollars and calories initialily?

This is the kind of data presentation that people who actually work with data recognize as deliberate deception.  I could sat "armospheric CO2 rose by 100 parts per million" but if you don't know what it was before, 10 ppm or 500 ppm, it's a meaningless figure.  It just so happens we already know it was 13%.  Which doesn't sound like much, and isn't, whiile "18.4 billion calories" sounds like oooooh aaaaaah.

And as I said, 13% reduction in 32 years, I would call that "failure."  You could achieve a lot LOT more with a good public information campaign about proper nutrition habits; the USA once had such campaigns and has them no longer.  I wonder why.  One thing I like about Vietnam is that it does have PICs, even including exhorting people to have fewer kids and to do their part to keep the city clean.  They don't seem to be working too well.

I do believe wrote:

I don't care much for Starbucks insipid coffee and it's incredibly overpriced. The profit margins must be enormous. A traditional Vietnamese drip coffee with a touch of the white stuff with ice tops anything Starbucks puts out.

I haven't been to Starbucks in VN yet but I drank their coffee in the USA until the day I left, I had some in the airport on the day of departure, and if you want to argue that what they serve is "insipid" (do you even know what that means?), I have to call troll.  Their coffee is excellent, full-bodied and wholly roasted, quite unlike the yellowish stuff with an aftertaste of lawn clippings that most American vendors sell.  Starbucks serves a variety of whole-bean offerings from all over the world and most people who buy from them have their own bean grinders while the coffee here is ground at the factory and begins to lose flavor at once. 

The part of it that is coffee, that is, which is maybe 40%.  The rest is ground roasted corn and soy.  That "touch of white stuff" is like the icing generously applied on a cake with the appeal of moist sawdust to rescue it from inedibility; the "coffee" has to be sickeningly sweet to be drinkable and since I only drink it for the caffeine I may as well have No-Doz.  Unless it's from one of the few that sell real coffee (TN and Highlands), whose prices are close to Starbucks because real coffee costs money while ground corn is cheap, Vietnamese coffee never tastes quite right.  At best it has a chocolate undertaste and some sugar hint, and some of us can't stand sweet drinks.

The coffee from real coffee shops is made from actual coffee beans and is satisfying and wholesome, I drink it to enjoy.

The coffee from the street vendors and ordinary shops is vile, it's less than 50% actual coffee, and I gulp it down for the caffeine alone and don't enjoy it.  It tastes nothing like coffee and it doesn't beat anything except dishwater. It just wakes me up a little and is barely with the thirty cents I pay for it.

The stiff from real coffee shops costs about as much as the reviled Starbucks, so who cares.

Some pretty interesting figures and statistics pro or con; the devil is in the perspective of the details.

My view (having been born before the fast food industry got going) is that most fat food is tasteless, chemical and/or fat laden garbage. When I make a hamburger at home, it has lettuce, tomato and onion and a decent slug of artery choking meat. No crappy Mayo, no relish (can't buy it), has mustard and the piece de resistance - nuoc tuong laced with cut hot peppers. There is not one fast food joint that makes a hamburger even close to mine in nutrition or taste. (Although Wendy's is probably the best of the garbage). To the Prime Minister of Vietnam; please close em down, your son in law can take over the shipyards.