Vietnamese Memorial Day

Yes, 19 December 1946. The first nationwide offensive that sought to convince the French that Indochina was no longer theirs. Though the early arriving French leaders (minus Thierry d'Argenlieu) had negotiated with Ho Chi Minh, his trip to Fontainebleau had shown him that however much the French Left supported him, they did not have to political power necessary to force the National Assembly to grant Indochina independence.

Thierry d'Argenlieu had thrown the first match into the gasoline can when he declared Cochinchina (Nam Ky) independant of Vietnam, just as HCM was flying to France for the Fontainebleau conference.

A good day to remember all Vietnamese and their ethnic minorities who perished fighting in good faith on all sides of the conflicts that followed.

bta87 wrote:

To all our Vietnamese friends, the best to you on this Memorial Day. Many sacrificed.

Although you intention is admirable, I'm curious how/where did you find out that 22 December is "Memorial Day" in Việt Nam?  I know the USA has the official federal holiday of Memorial Day.

wikipedia wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Day Memorial Day is a United States federal holiday which occurs every year on the final Monday of May.[1] Memorial Day is a day of remembering the men and women who died while serving in the United States Armed Forces.[2]

However, I didn't find it for Việt Nam.  There was a newspaper article that referred to December 22 as "Army Day".  http://vietnamnews.vn/life-style/249330 … diers.html

as it is the birthday of the People's Army. 
22-12-1944: Thành lập quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam, ngày quốc phòng toàn dân

Google translated from this site
http://hoidap.tinmoi.vn/y-nghia-ngay-22 … 22290.html

Abide by the directives of President Ho Chi Minh, on 12.22.1944, the Vietnam Liberation Army propaganda was established in Nguyen Binh Chau, Cao Bang, in a wooded area between two total Hoang Hoa Tham and Tran Hung Dao. Party Central Committee and chairman of the Ho Chi Minh was assigned to Vo Nguyen Giap organization and leadership team announced the establishment. The team consists of 34 people (3 women) divided into 3 sub-teams, which the Party leadership. 34 Weapons include guns of all kinds. After the establishment, the whole team went to eat a light lunch anymore, not salt vegetables to symbolize the spirit of the hardships endured revolutionaries.

It looks like the December 22, 1944 is analogous to the birth of the American Army on June 14, 1775.  http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/birth.html ... interestingly during revolutionary times similar to what was going on in Việt Nam in 1944

Perhaps I should have researched the official name of the holiday. My GF explained the importance or meaning of the day and I simply assumed the Veterans Day moniker. I apologize

bta87 wrote:

Perhaps I should have researched the official name of the holiday. My GF explained the importance or meaning of the day and I simply assumed the Veterans Day moniker. I apologize

No problem.  I don't know if there's an actual day set aside to honor the fallen heroes but almost in every town across the land, there is a war memorial (Đài liệt sĩ) that is beautifully constructed.  I would imagine the families of the war heroes would honor them around Tết.

For anyone interested in reading up on what HCM and the boys were up in those days, from an American perspective, I recommend Dixee Bartholomew-Feis's book: "The OSS and Ho Chi Minh: Unexpected Allies in the War against Japan", published by the University of Kansas Press.

http://www.amazon.com/OSS-Ho-Chi-Minh-U … o+Chi+Minh

Lirelou

It was a period of confusion with shifting alliance. Even the Phat Diem enclave, later on famous for its anticommunist stance, was working with Ho chi Minh initially. It is recounted recently in a well-researched article

http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs … WS_a_00369


Anyway, d'Argenlieu was actually just implementing the long-standing French policy of seeing the Tonkin, Annam, Cochin China, Cambodia and Laos as 5 separate entities (within the Indochinese Federation), even though he was more hard-line and vocal. The issue of seeing the Tonkin, Annam and Cochin China as one as claimed by Ho chi Minh was a sticky negotiation issue from the beginning.

I would recommend a new book called Embers of War: The Fall of an Empire and the Making of America's Vietnam, a Pulitzer winning history book.
http://www.amazon.com/Embers-War-Empire … 0375504427

It is often recognized as the definite (so far) book about this 1940-1954 period.

Also, even though Ho chi Minh personally knew many from The French Left, he never got support about Vietnam from them even when he was there.

I quote from the book: in 1923, Ho chi Minh "came to the depressing realization—and not for the last time—that the French Communist Party attached barely more priority to the colonial question than had the Socialists. For both parties, European issues were what truly mattered."

I hold a special place in my heart for people who give book recommendations.  Thanks.

Returning a favor:

It is often recognized as the definite (so far) book about this 1940-1954 period.

The word you want is "definitive."

Annata, Yes I've seen that book recommended. It's on my must read list. Actually, I am quite aware of the Phat Diem and Bui Diem bishophrics. They were true nationalists. And they did support HCM in the beginning, until it became clear that the Communists would rule. Evfen then, they tried neutrality.  Captain Nguyen Van Vy of the 3rd Colonial Paracommandos was sent to notify the Monsignor that the French were prepairing an assault on the bishophrics unless they agreed to come over to Bao Dai's side. (Operation Anthracite - October 1949).

One of the great lies spread by the American press during the war was that the Vietnamese Catholics were pro-French. Most Northern Vietnamese Catholics were Nationalists of various tendencies (VNQDD, etc). I once met a Vietnamese priest of the Salesian order whose parents were killed fighting with the Viet Minh.

As for the French Communist Party, of which HCM was a founding member, you have to remember the unstable poltical climate of the French IVth Republic. Publicly, the Communists Party had to support the war in order to gain a plurality in the elections. Privately, and through their unions, the Party membership did everything it could to oppose the war. It's a case of having to measure their official words against their unofficial actions. As I mentioned, HCM's evaluation of this state of affairs is what convinced HCM that war was a necessity (IMHO).

lirelou wrote:

Annata, Yes I've seen that book recommended. It's on my must read list. Actually, I am quite aware of the Phat Diem and Bui Diem bishophrics. They were true nationalists. And they did support HCM in the beginning, until it became clear that the Communists would rule. Evfen then, they tried neutrality.  Captain Nguyen Van Vy of the 3rd Colonial Paracommandos was sent to notify the Monsignor that the French were prepairing an assault on the bishophrics unless they agreed to come over to Bao Dai's side. (Operation Anthracite - October 1949).

Lirelou,
As I understand it, a battalion was actually sent (together with Captain Vy) not only to warn, but was to attack in case Monsieur Vy did not comply. I quote from the above-mentioned article

"In October 1949 a battalion of Vietnamese paratroopers from the French colonial forces commanded by Captain
Nguyen Van Vy dropped onto the center of Phat Diem near the cathedral. Tu had already been in secret negotiations with Vy, but the bishop remained reluctant to abandon his “neutrality” by openly welcoming the French. “The Catholic militia was therefore drawn up in order of battle behind a canal,” Bodard reported that “after they had shouted ‘Look out', they red a few shots over the canal in the direction of the invaders. When the invaders had
retaliated with one or two bursts into the air,Monsignor Le Huu-tu was compelled to acknowledge defeat and to sign an armistice"

lirelou wrote:

As for the French Communist Party, of which HCM was a founding member, you have to remember the unstable poltical climate of the French IVth Republic. Publicly, the Communists Party had to support the war in order to gain a plurality in the elections. Privately, and through their unions, the Party membership did everything it could to oppose the war. It's a case of having to measure their official words against their unofficial actions. As I mentioned, HCM's evaluation of this state of affairs is what convinced HCM that war was a necessity (IMHO).

The Embers of Wars book gives a strong impression of the French Communists' non support. Again, I quote

"French Communist Party, anxious to appear patriotic and moderate before the metropolitan electorate, repeatedly refused his pleas for support, and indeed connived in the venture of reconquest"

Anatta, this is a quick reply. Ask yourself this: If the French Communist Party was actively "conniving" in the reconquest, where did the National Assembly get the votes to prohibit the use of draftees in Indochina in 1947? Also, how is it that Goerges Boudarel could return to France after the War and go so many years without being prosecuted for his support of the Viet Minh? And how did the CPF controlled dockworkers unions n Marseilles ever get the votes and nerve to refuse to load or unload ships bearing war material or personnel for Indochina?

To understand this, you have to look at the problem in terms of 1) coalition politics within the IVth French Republic, 2) the developing Cold War with the USSR, 3) France's developing membership in NATO, 4) the events of the Chinese Civil War, and 5) Viet Minh successes in Vietnam.

Events moved very quickly between 1945 and October 1950, when Giap's success along Route 4 between Cao Bang and Langson convinced the U.S. to begin supporting the idea of indepedent Indochinese states within a French Union, something they had previously opposed..

The statement that the CPF actively 'connived' in the reconquest of Indochina might have been true on its face in 1945 and early 46,(when France was being governed by a provisional government and the IVth French Republic's constitution was being written and approved) but it is spectacularly naive if applied to events from Autumn 1947 on as regards the CPF .

Yes, the CPF was in and out of IVth Republic governments, and it proclained itself in support of French war aims at various times, but again, context requires that one understand what French aims were at what stage in those times. French went from a post-War reestablishment of presence strategy, to a pacify a rebellion strategy, to a policy of recognizing the Indochinese States (minus Cochinchina) as autonomous states, to a policy of recognizing all of Vietnam as Vietnam, and as an independent state within a looser French Union, to finally realizing that Vietnam would be fully independant with no other ties to France than they had with any other nations (but hopefully not a Communist one). All that took place between 1945 and 1950. And the war had four more years to grind on.