Conflicting visa info

I have been wondering the exack same thing.

I posted about this recently, as I'm in the same boat (or plane).

You don't actually need a return ticket -- what you need is an onward ticket (something taking you out of the country -- to anywhere). I'm planning to buy a bus ticket from Guayaquil to Tumbres, Peru (cost ~$45) and throw it away after I get to Quito.

Here we go Howard and Janet. This information is solely based on what has transpired over the last 3 months of my journey through the maze. I have received my 9-II Visa (investor [$25K] and my Cedula). In Ecuador, tomorrow could be different :-)

I brought with me:

1. Birth Certificate (apostilled by Missouri) (2-each)
2. Marriage License/Certificate (appostilled by New New Mexico) (2-each)
3. Criminal Report (from the State of Oregon, appostilled by Oregon) (2-each)
4. Certified Copy of my diploma from the University of Nebraska - Lincoln (appostilled by Nebraska) (2-each)
5. Copies of the front page (picture page) of my passport (5-each)

I gave to my lawyer, all of the above.

When I got here (using my T-3 90-day Visa) I got:

1. Certificate of Deposit from Banco Bolivariano (1-year CD). I already had a savings account with BB and wired the $26K from my bank in Oregon after I was here [$25.5 K for me and wife and $500 for walking around money).
2. My history of movement into and out of Ecuador. Available from the National Police (and the easiest document to procure... took 4 minutes from walking in to walking out)
3. Translations of all documents (lawyer took care of that)

My packet that went to Immigration (from my lawyer) included my application, Oregon State Police Report of no criminal record. The original of the CD, my Movement Form (from National Police) and that was about it. There were a couple of minor errors on my application from, which were corrected within 20 minutes and resubmitted.

Everything was submitted on 14 October 2013.

Then wait... wait...wait...wait... I get an email and phone call from Immigration. "Come tomorrow to pick up your Visa". That happened on 4 December 2013. I go the next day (Thursday the 5th), get my Visa and complete the form for the Cedula. "Take this to the Cedula joint (I may be paraphrasing there) six days (business) from today". I go in the following Friday (to the Cedula joint), and about an hour later, I'm leaving with my Cedula. Go have it copied and encapsulated in plastic, put the original away with my passport and go have one heck of a celebratory glass of wine... or twenty.

I can still make my flight back on the 25th and be back here a couple of weeks later (the whole fly home thing is an entirely different story and caused by stupid airlines).

A couple of pointers I would like to add...

1. If you think a document "could" be needed, get it. Get it apostilled. The whole effort is a bit of time and a few dollars. So what. Better than trying to get it from here. I've got apostilled documents in a stack. Didn't need anything other than the police report from Oregon. So what. I can now paper my walls with them.

2. Patience and smiles. If either are a problem, start practicing. The one thing that people, who are going to give you what you want, will not tolerate is attitude. Check it at the door. This sometimes is hard. I'm a "type A" and almost lost the front 1/2 inch of my tongue, bitting it. I'll get over it.

I don't know if allowed, but my lawyer was Carlos Heredia, ([email protected]), Telephone 09 0611 0620 in Cuenca. I will be the first to say that Carlos will not "do" the process for you, but will give you all the hand holding, encouragement, instruction, strength, forms (filled out), etc.,  to get through the maze. He, or Jenny (his wife and also a lawyer) will go with you to the "important" parts, but many things will still need your effort. Personally, I am thankful for that. How else can you understand all the "weird" parts without experiencing them first hand?

Hope this helps.

symo

Edit... sorry Howard I did miss the part about the return ticket. That's why I'm going home Christmas day... My next ticket will be one way. Bob H also has a possibility, actually you can book a flight on LAN, get the 24-hour confirmation and then not pay for the ticket. it will go null and you have proof of the ticket printed out.

Most excellent and informative post Sir.
Pretty much my experience. For the cost factor, I doubled up on ALL the documents needed also. Always better to be over prepared than not. < is that an oxy moron?>
Some folks navigate this process on their own, and are successful. I, like you, went the lawyer route, and have never regretted  the money spent. I went the full 9 yards, and only had to visit the two offices, at an appointed time. Total time invested was an hour combined. < my attorney met me at both offices and handled everything >
The horror stories we hear are from the folks that come to the country un  prepared. Posts such as yours  help alleviate those fears.
This is a way easier and faster process than becoming an American citizen.
Thanks for you contributions, and helping ease peoples fears and trepidations.
Stay Well,
Neil

I am in exactly the same boat as you. Nothing but conflicting info.  In Toronto, Canada, I went to the Ecuadorian Consulate, where the woman spoke very little English, and I had a hard time understanding her. I was told that I could get my Resident Visa here.  Now, all of a sudden, my Passport is only valid to May 2014, and that is not good enough, the Police Clearance I paid $50 for, is outdated by a month,   my return ticket is for May 5th and I am not supposed to stay here more than 3 mos.,  although in Toronto I was told I could stay 8 months and apply for the Resident Visa within that time   -   I do not think, any of the people I talked to, have the slightest clue what they are saying.  I have a good mind to just get my new Passport right here at the Canadian Consulate and let the chips fall where they may after that. It is all a money scam anyhow. Having to show a return ticket, when you don't want to go back in the first place, was a total waste of money.  If I want to change the date on that ticket now,  American Airlines wants to charge me an extra $450 for making it a different date on the ticket.  Now I am reading, it is best to go back to Canada, get it all done there with that non-English speaking senorita, and then come back with the Visa in hand.  Meanwhile, money and precious time and energy wasted going back and forth to the frozen North. Rats!!!  I just simply wanted to retire here, and the 12 hr. trip was not something I wanted to repeat all too soon.  Kind regards, the Canuck

Yes Amber, Ecuador doesn't seem to have all the bugs ironed out of their immigration 'system'.

Their website includes very little useful information, their embassy and consulate employees seem to be in the dark, and they change the requirements without warning or notification, frequently.

It does look like a real seat-of-the-pants adventure.

This kind of whimsical bureaucracy makes it very hard for older people who are often liquidating everything from an entire life, to meet all the requirements and make the move in one fell swoop. Which is pretty much the way we'd all like to do it.

Amber: I'm just doing the online version of thinking out loud, but isn't it possible you could deal with your documentation problems from Ecuador, if you have a good friend back home who is willing to do a bit of legwork on your behalf?

You could probably order a new police clearance online or by phone and have it sent to your friend, who could get it notarized and apostilled for you and send it to you. See the attorney and find out if there are other documents you need, but it seems that four and a half months should be enough time to get the job done (again, assuming there is somebody willing to help on the Canada end).

In any case, good luck.

Bob

thank you very much for the replies.  Yes,  I do still have my son in Toronto, who will most likely be willing to help me out with gathering all the necessary documentation eventually.  First the new Passport here in Guayaquil from the Canadian Consulate for 5 years -  somewhere around $200.CDN.  After that, I will see that lawyer lady, recommended by a lady friend from InterNations, if necessary.  Don't know, if I can afford it, though.  Then an extension on the stay here, so I can actually do everything that is necessary for all the RED TAPE. It is somewhat disheartening, when a person just wants to retire in peace and quiet and enjoy life for a few more years. I have bank statements, which show exactly where my Pension goes and how much it is. Canada and Ecuador have no agreement to send Pensions here, which makes it a bit of a hassle. But, I am not one to give up easy. I have that German determination in my blood, and Canadian stubbornness. If a person is willing to do everything the right way, they should be given a chance to at least try, without having to spend their entire savings on some lawyer, who might or might not help in the end.

Hey Amber,
Off topic..... but nice legs!

Neil

why was it off topic?   I have to figure out, on how best to go about the hassle of getting that Visa now. When the Ecuadorian Consulate told me in October in Toronto, all I had to do, is apply for it here. Now I am finding out, it is much more complicated and I have less time, than what they told me. All I need is a Resident Visa, as I am retired. I heard there are as many as 13 different visas.  Thanks for the compliment on the old legs, even after knee replacement. Tell me, is there a much less complicated way to acquire this illusive Visa here, so I do not have to travel back to the [literally] frozen North?  I would have to change the date on my return ticket, at an additional cost of $450 with AA. The cost of a lawyer and he cost of the Visa, plus the ticket to come back here, plus getting some furniture into this empty place -  just not financially possible for me.  Go ahead, make jokes,  I have a pretty good sense of humour, but silly remarks ain't helpin'...

I believe Neil was letting you know that he and others on here will try to help you, that your legs are just a plus.  Kinda like havin' them Bullfrog Blues, where you wake up laughin', laughin' just to keep from cryin'.  The Ecuador immigration system befuddles many, it is unfortunate that you are presented with the money problems while trying to navigate said system.  Many bought a bus ticket to Peru or some other throw away exit from Ecuador rather than a 12 hour flight round trip ticket. (See BobH above)  Hopefully others will point you in the right direction, as they could tell you who did what for them for how much.  Guayaquil is not a popular expat spot, so travel may be involved to Cuenca or Quito.

hmmm...I just happened to look at all these replies. I am not getting the notifications of replies. Thanks for all the info folks.

Amber,
Sorry about the comment re: your legs. Think I'd had one to many Pillsner's that night. I was only pulling your leg. Trying to inject some light heartedness and obviously missed my mark.
Wish you the very best in your journey.
Regards,
Neil
Ps. one of the things commonly left off of the list of things you need is: If you have ever been divorced, you must have your LAST divorce decree. It must also be apostilled.

janet119 wrote:

hmmm...I just happened to look at all these replies. I am not getting the notifications of replies. Thanks for all the info folks.

Verifications probably froze up in THE POLAR VORTEX. (new weatherperson buzz word)

I am so sick of hearing the words Polar Vortex. It is just winter. Mind you I am getting mighty tired of walking around in -40 weather. When I get inside my coat is so frozen it sounds like it is going to break. Ceunca here I come.

Janet,
Minneapolis is experiencing the same winter you guys are. Can't say I'm missing it much. It's been kinda rainy and cool here lately. I feel absolutely terrible when I complain to the folks back home about 60 degree < above > weather we are in now. We needed the rain, as the rivers were waaaaay down.
You're gonna love Cuenca!
Neil

I experienced about a seventy degree change on my flight down here -- it was -11 when I left Chicago and about sixty here in Quito. I was tying my shoes to go out yesterday and realized that the laces were stiff from the road salt. That's not a problem I'm going to have any more.

It sure is raining a lot, though.

I didnt not see myself spending yet another winter in the great white north.....paperwork paperwork paperwork. who knew it was a big deal to want everything in my maiden name.

Bob,
Don't know if you noticed yet or not, but there are plenty of old cars.... but no rust!

sounds like the best idea yet.
My return ticket goes to Miami, and I do not feel like getting lost there. LOL

thank you,  I had the feeling I would need that divorce decree and so I brought it with me, embossed, etc.  In the meantime, my criminal record check is "outdated" from October 2013, my passport expires on May 6th, and I am having a canary. Actually, to be honest, I thought "Nice Legs" was great!  sorry, if I sounded a little ticked off, it was not so much at you, but at the fandangled  governments of both countries.  I like the idea with the bus ticket to Peru, and re-entry to Ecuador.  Sounds like a pretty good idea to me, in an emerge.  I love it here. The heat does not bother me. Iguanas eating the Crickets does not bother me, either.   Stupid regulations, Red Tape and money scams of the sort bother me.  Take care, little buddy,  kind regards, Amber

AmberFenton wrote:

I like the idea with the bus ticket to Peru, and re-entry to Ecuador.  Sounds like a pretty good idea to me ...

Turns out I didn't need it. I flew Avianca/Taca (they're it the midst of a merger, it looks like Avianca will be the surviving name) down here, through San Salvador, but nobody asked a word about return/onward ticket.

I had been told that they seldom ask, but I thought the bus ticket was still a worthwhile investment, because I'd hate to have to buy a ticket at the counter.

Okay here's the deal. I thought your photo kinda showcased your legs. So I inappropriately commented. If I had a feature worth showcasing, I would, but alas, I have none.
You'll do fine in the paperwork department. Just designate a power of attorney in the states, and you'll be cool. I knew some folks that went through the same issue with expiration when I went through the process with the police report, and they handled it from here. You'll do fine.
Be Well,
Neil
Ps. you came to SA to leave the stress behind. Breathe deep.

the way I understand the thing with the return ticket now, is,  as long as you have a ticket to go somewhere else, not necessarily back to your own country, just out of Ecuador, you should be alright. So, if I HAVE to leave for some reason, my ticket actually only goes to Miami, and I would not fly all the way back to Canada. It is absolutely ridiculous, to ask retired people over 65 to make that long journey back, have the expense and inconvenience, and it is all just for a bunch of papers, which should be easily obtainable through a relative, who can go and get the documents needed for a Resident Visa, have them notarized, embossed and translated and send them here to Ecuador.  The biggest problem is, that nobody at these consulates seems to know, what exactly is required for which Visa  - and I hear that there are 13 different varieties of them. Money scam comes to mind. To get some kind of legal help here, will most likely cost a fortune, which I don't have, and there still will be no guarantee that even with legal help, it will result in the Resident Visa I need. Crap.  I am extremely apprehensive to even get started on all this Red Tape stuff with the governments. They have a way to screw things up and hold things up for years. Crap again.  Sorry, but frustration is something I need to learn to overcome now.

Honestly, I get a bit frustrated with people from N.A that seem to think the process to become a citizen of Ecuador is so difficult. I came to this country and got my resident visa and cedula in less than a months time. Do you have any idea of what that process for an immigrant seeking residence in the US is? They don't require you to pass a  a history of  Ecuador here. They don't require you to know the language.
As far as a money rip off? I spent well under fifty dollars in paperwork in the US to meet all the requirements.
It really comes down to having all your docs in order when you arrive. The requirements are well spelled out. If you don't have the paperwork in order, or if you let your doc's expire, it adds a hassle to the process. Not the Ecuadorian governments problem. If your passport expires, it's not their fault. There are certain clear cut rules that must be adhered to. I had a fresh passport when I arrived, a new drivers license, and all my apostilled docs were 2 weeks old. Granted, I was fortunate to have an Ecuadorian consulate in my city, but these are the things that must be addressed to avoid further hassle once you arrive in Ecuador.
Please folks, don't make the process more difficult than it need be. Come prepared. Do your homework. The whole process was totally painless for me, and I ain't the sharpest guy on the block. As  I've said countless times, I didn't have more than an hour involved in getting my visa and cedula. Pretty smooth. Compare that to the hoops that immigrants in N.A have jump through... can't even compare.
Regards,
ZenSPIKE

ZenSPIKE wrote:

Honestly, I get a bit frustrated with people from N.A that seem to think the process to become a citizen of Ecuador is so difficult.

Please folks, don't make the process more difficult than it need be. Come prepared. Do your homework. The whole process was totally painless for me, and I ain't the sharpest guy on the block. As  I've said countless times, I didn't have more than an hour involved in getting my visa and cedula. Pretty smooth. Compare that to the hoops that immigrants in N.A have jump through... can't even compare.

Regards,
ZenSPIKE

Well said, and I just spent an hour writing further recommendations for Amber, and then closed my browser without posting it, so here is the abbreviated version :-)

I am tired of people whining about how everyone is to blame except themselves... the one in control of the situation. Amber from reading your posts, you appear to have come to Ecuador totally unprepared to get a visa. You ought to do some more research on what the entire process is, get you ducks in a row, and go for it.

My total expenditure for my visa (lawyer, you do have one, correct? applications, translations of my documents, copies, fees to the government, etc., everything) was under $1,500.00... that doesn't sound like a money scam to me. My total time from submission to receipt was 52-days.

I detailed everything I brought, everything I got in Ecuador, all of it in Post #4 in this thread. However when I got to Ecuador on 27 September of this year, I had previously been here a total of 2 1/2 months, in three separate trips,over the prior 2 years... researching and finding out "the best way" to do the visa process.

Es lo que es... good luck in getting your visa.

symo

Hallo friends,
do you know a good lawyer in Manta?
Thanks in advance.Gordana

Symo,
That is very close to my total expenditures for the entire process also. Best money I have ever spent. Didn't go with a cheap lawyer, but as in all things, you get what you pay for.
Neil

I had the exact same problem. I knew, I wanted to retire here,  had been here for a visit and loved it, lived with locals and came back -  needing a return ticket.  I explained it to the ticket agent and she cut me a deal, by just giving me a partial return ticket, just out of Ecuador. So, as long as you leave Ecuador to go "some place" it seems to be alright. I heard some folks just buy a bus ticket into Peru and come back to another city in Ecuador a couple of days later. Nobody seems to notice.  Bizarre.  I don't feel like going through all that hassle. So I am hoping that my son in Toronto will be able to get all my necessary papers for this Resident Visa for a retired person, get them notarized and I have them translated into Spanish here, get that notarized,  two pictures, valid passport [longer than 6 mos.]  recent Police clearance and perhaps even divorce papers  -   I know about the hassle with the Pensions, Canada does not have an agreement with Ecuador about that.  Well, we can only hope for the best. I cannot afford an expensive immigration lawyer, I want to just be an Ex-pat, but remain Canadian, and because there isn't much here in regards to elderly care [homes for the old and infirm],   I might go back after 5 -7 years, when my name might be called for a Senior Citizen apartment north of Toronto.   I wish you good luck and much success and I hope for the same for me. Kind regards

I inquired about my pensions, and moving to Ecuador did not pose a problem with them at all. I am also canadian.

what I see as a problem, might not be one to others.  I pay 15% taxes on my Pension right now,  if I tell them that I want to live here, they want 30% taxes off of my Pension. It makes no sense to me.  They have no agreement with Ecuador to send the pensions here, so my bank will have to make the transfers at least once or twice a month, again for an extra cost involved. I might just have enough left to skim by, after all that. One of the reasons I came here, is to live cheaper on the limited income I have, because in Canada, I just barely made it.  Ah, well,  somehow, I'll work it out. So far, I am actually only still a visitor, but I really like it where I live.

Must I have a divorce decree if I have been divorced, remarried and then widowed?  If you need a divorce decree, do you then need your first marriage license?
Thanks,
cb

Amberfenton, Canada has a tax agreement with Ecuador. But to receive this (depending on how the government of Canada views your status) you will only need to have 15% withheld from your pension income. (If GofC deems you to be a non-resident of Canada. You might be considered a "deemed resident" or (less likely) a factual resident. The GofC has a fairly good explanation on the website.  You must however submit a form with all the details of your plans to have the government decide what your residency status is.  If you are considered a non-resident, you must submit a form to the GofC (Revenue) Canada to benefit from the tax treaty. If you don't do this your financial institution in Canada is obliged to withhold 25% of your pension for tax purposes.  Don't know if that helps or not.

It's great to hear that some people get through the Visa process with little incident. We dealt directly with the Ecuadorian Consulate in Canada to get all our documents in order (legalized, apostatized etc.) However, with so many changes, I don't think that the Consulates are always on top of everything - how can they be? When we arrived, we were missing an important document regarding pension confirmation specifically issued by the consulated (a "protocolizaion") and our marriage certificate and criminal record checks were three weeks too old.

There are still a couple of outstanding issues, that we're hoping will be resolved shortly, hopefully, but no matter what sort of due diligence you do, it is possible to have things fall through the cracks. It can be frustrating, but they need what they need and we need to do our best to get it.

The key is not to be discourage. The agents are only trying to ensure that everything is in place, it's not a personal vendetta. (It may feel like it, but that's just because we're out of our comfort zone.)  Gook luck! (Buena suerte!)

CB48 wrote:

Must I have a divorce decree if I have been divorced, remarried and then widowed?  If you need a divorce decree, do you then need your first marriage license?
Thanks,
cb

I would say that you must have your divorce decree in hand. Being married, they still require you to show the decree from the last dissolution of marriage., so I don't see how it would vary. I would also suggest you have your last union Marriage Certificate, and his Certificate of Death. I am sorry for your loss.
As we always say, much better to have all docs in hand then to have to go through the hassle later.
Best Wishes,
Neil

Well, since I started this rather meandering thread I thought I'd jump back in and tell my sad story.

Everyone says getting their Social Security benefits letter apostilled is easy.  So, I obtained a copy of my benefits letter, attached a notarized copy of my signature and sent it to the Sec of State here in Florida.  I get a response stating that the Federal Department of State has been bitching at the states for apostilling federal documents so they won't do the Social Security Letter any more.

So, I sent a copy of my benefits letter to the Feds.  The responded that they won't apostille it unless it is a certified copy with pen in hand signature and raised stamp.

So, I called the Social Security folks in Washington and they said they don't issue such certified letters.  Starting to smell like Catch-22.

Then I saw a post somewhere in which a guy says he paid Social Security $48 and they got him such a letter.  Catch-22 moves toward extortion.

I went to my local Social Security Office.  I showed them the letter from the Fed Department of State.  They said they had never heard of such a thing, but they would check.  On January 8 I got a letter from Social Security saying that since my request was 'out of the norm' they would have to charge me $48 to provide such a letter.  Wow, at least the $48 figure was a glimmer of consistency.

I mailed the SSA guys a check for $48 on January 9 and have heard nothing back yet.  I'm giving them until February 8 and then I guess I'll have to storm the castle.

So, it ain't just the Ecuadorians who don't talk to each other.

Howardofocal wrote:

Everyone says getting their Social Security benefits letter apostilled is easy.  So, I obtained a copy of my benefits letter, attached a notarized copy of my signature and sent it to the Sec of State here in Florida.  I get a response stating that the Federal Department of State has been bitching at the states for apostilling federal documents so they won't do the Social Security Letter any more.

I had no problem at all, less than a month ago, with the Illinois Sec of State.

Sorry to hear all the run-around you've been given.

Howard,
Sorry to hear of your tribulations. I got the copy off the SS web site, got it notarized , brought it to my Secretary Of States office, along with all my other docs, and was out the door in 45 minutes, all apostilled. No charge.
What a cluster you are enduring.
Good Luck,
Neil
Ps. when I said no charge, I was referring the SS letter. I was charged 10 dollars per doc for the apostil by my state.