Moving to Riyadh, bring the wife?

jswwjw - Welcome to the forum and we look forward to your arrival in Riyadh!  Yes, your pup needs to be classified as a guard dog, but there are a ton of 2-8 pound guard dogs in the country!   
As for your wife, yes, she will have to wear the abaya when she leaves the compound.  Its not a big deal though.  A bit hot, in the warmer months, but coming from the coast of MS, this may be a relief - its dry here! 
Public display of affection...  I do believe its frowned upon, but being the 'huggy' person that I am, I give my husband a peck on the cheek or a hug if I have just seen him for the first time that day.  And you do see many couples holding hands as they shop. 
Be sure to read through the posts on this forum - there is a ton of info that will assist with your transition to the kingdom.

Welcome to the Kingdom, js, and to our forum, as well!

Public display of affection...  I do believe its frowned upon,

The thing in Saudia is that you can do something 100 times with no problem but then on the 101st time, you get in trouble. What makes the difference is if a Saudi complains about what you've done.

Last month in Dubai (DUBAI!) a British couple was sentenced to a month in jail for what they claim was a peck on the cheek in a restaurant. 

http://www.latimes.com/features/odd-new … 1655.story

And that was in DUBAI!!! Thing to never forget is that these are Muslim countries (Saudia, most of all) and when in public we must live by the standards imposed by Sharia law.

That said, it's really not so bad   I find the people and the culture to be fascinating and with the right attitude (I'm always talking about attitude lol), you will, too.

Salaam alaikum.

I have never had any problem whatsoever pecking the Mrs and the gals on their cheeks whenever I had to meet at the airport to pick them up on a return to the Kingdom from overseas. Been doing it for decades now. No one even bothers to look. I think its the manner in whch the act is executed that matters.

Musicman - I totally agree.  But Im sure that there is that rare exception that Allie is talking about that would make our lives miserable!  So, if your going to 'peck' be sure to 'peck' discretely! 

I'll just get a lot of pecking (lol) out of the way at the compound.  Thanks all.  I got my "official offer" yesterday so with the exception of a few questions being answered in writing I should be there in 30 days or less.  Any good thoughts on what to and not-to bring? Do American cell phones work over there without costing me an arm and a leg?

My cellphone wouldn't work at all but I am told that 'unlocked' ones DO work.

What you need is a local sim.  Many of us buy time as we need it (plenty of kiosks around the malls) but I'm looking into the economics of a plan here.

It's not like the States.  You don't buy minutes and this makes me crazy because every call costs a different amount!  Best way to go is to text (25 halallas each! lol).

I suggest you buy a 'magic jack' in the States.  What I like about it is that it enables people to call ME since I have a US phone number.  Now mind you, sometimes the calls aren't good quality  (breaking up, like the 'old days' with cell phones!) but sometimes they're fine.

There are a couple recent threads on the forum where I tried to get advice regarding cell phones.  Might be beneficial to read them

thanks, we use magic jack at home and I never though about that.  I will research other blogs about what to and no-to bring to bring.  I will let you all know where and when I arrive.  Looking forward to meeting and talking to you.  Have any of you visited the American Embassy?

Have any of you visited the American Embassy?

Pucker up and prepare to kiss the janitor!!

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=29329

I don't know what that means alliecat?

Sorry; I read the link and now know what "kiss the janitor" means.  Sounds like the Aussie's have more fun anyway.

Sounds like the Aussie's have more fun anyway.

just don't spew

No worries there. Glad I have a chauffeur assigned to me.  You guys and galls have been a great help to me and I thank you again.

John

Hey, We went to the Embassy last night and had a nice time.  It was to celebrate the 'renovation' of the Marine Barracks and one of the bars - actually, just a chance to have a party.  It wasnt too bad for our first time...  The   was the best!

BUT the good news is we MET the JANITOR!!!    No actually we met a very nice young Marine (he reminded me of my son!) who assured us he would put us on the list for upcoming events!  So I will keep you all posted on whats happening...

Thanks.

Alliecat wrote:

Sounds like the Aussie's have more fun anyway.

just don't spew

hehehe I remember it with all your interesting illustration.


Allie,I read about the couple in fact I have read several times about such violations of western couples in Dubai.Actually its not their mistake.Ther r confused with the contradicting laws in UAE.If they are allowed for skin exposure ,Pubs,Dance Clubs,Gambling,sensational belly dances  and of course prostitution too so why would they find the public display of affection " a big deal"?Its simply hypocrisy.

Anyway coming back to Js;I agree with CAF here,its not a big deal ,just don't get into high doze smooches:par:. Me and my hubby hold each others hand while shopping and yeah he always give me tight hugs at Airport when I arrive back, even in front of Shurtaz or Even Mutawas too.i wonder, even they know its not any lusty embraced hehehe  ....So yar=[buddy] come on here and get your wife too I am sure she will enjoy it too,I just hope u guys find good compound ,it will make your life better

I would recommend u to read the forum as much u can.

Thanks as well.  My host company (out of California) is real slow in answering my logistical questions so until they are answered I will not sign my offer.  I have learned a lot of valuable information on this blog so I again thank each and every one of you.  Hopefully it will all work out and we will be there within 30 days.  I will let you all know when I(we) arrive.  Me first for the first 30 days or so and then the wife and dogs (with the proper paperwork).

Regards;

John

jsw,

You will make my YEAR if you get your little dogs in. As I may have told you, my standard poodle (55 lbs and quite feminine and protective USUALLY) killed another duck in our pool yesterday. (NO I did NOT ask her to do that, it happened so fast...OMG)    but the point it, SHE'S A HUNTER -- I did take a picture--and yes we'll eat the duck if it helps!! So you see, now she can use that to get in and of course she's also a guard dog, etc...

Believe me, the dog thing was somehow like the last straw in terms of weird hassles, but if our little rascals can come along it'll make our daughter so much happier and that will make ME happier and according to my husband, that makes ALL of us happier...see the domino effect?

Let us know how the poochy thing goes. I will be VERY pleased if those ferocious dogs of yours get in.

They are actually great watch/guard dogs and alert us to anyone who approaches to comes near the house or door.  My host company is REAL slow in answering my logistical questions.  Is that normal?  If they finally answer my questions (I adjusted my written agreement to include everything that was discussed during my interview) I will then apply to bring the watch dogs.  I will let you know.

Thanks again,

John

nonzie's beautiful hand is BACK!

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



lol

jswwjw wrote:

They are actually great watch/guard dogs and alert us to anyone who approaches to comes near the house or door.  My host company is REAL slow in answering my logistical questions.  Is that normal?  If they finally answer my questions (I adjusted my written agreement to include everything that was discussed during my interview) I will then apply to bring the watch dogs.  I will let you know.

Thanks again,

John

Yes,the progress is usually slow and we all know that So Patience is the key

Alliecat wrote:

nonzie's beautiful hand is BACK!

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



lol

Just for u gal

So, how easy is it to get my cats over here?

Has anyone done it?

I heard that cats are easier than dogs.  There is a small mention of pets on the Embassy web site: 
If you wish to bring a cat or dog into Saudi Arabia you will need to obtain a Veterinary Health Certificate with an accompanying letter from the vet, and addressed to the Director of Customs, Saudi Arabia. The certificate must confirm that the animal is free from rabies and other diseases and has up-to-date vaccinations. The documents must be attested by the Ministry of Agriculture in your home country, and authenticated by the Saudi Arabian Embassy or consulate. Dogs can only be imported if they are defined as 'guard dogs' or 'hunting dogs'.
On arrival in Saudi Arabia, animals have to be collected from the Saudi Cargo depot, where a customs declaration must be completed. I am going to try once I get there.

Actually I heard just the opposite.

There are SO many feral cats roaming around Riyadh (that the authorities trap occasionally and drop out in the desert to die) that they don't see the need to let any more in the country.

being there you would know

the dog cat issue is culturally specific to Saudi from what I'm reading. I mean, YES there are religious issues but only Saudi has actually banned westerners from bringing dogs in (with the exceptions mentioned though).

John, don't get me wrong, I believe any good dog is a watch dog and I am thrilled yours are coming with you. Unfortunately I read something that MIGHT be one of those weird isolated events and I think it was OFF a compound, but someone had their son walking their dog and both were approached and "mildly assaulted" by offended Mutaween who hit the dog with a stick/cane. The family  eventually gave him away....

spitfire8 wrote:

the dog cat issue is culturally specific to Saudi from what I'm reading. I mean, YES there are religious issues but only Saudi has actually banned westerners from bringing dogs in (with the exceptions mentioned though).

John, don't get me wrong, I believe any good dog is a watch dog and I am thrilled yours are coming with you. Unfortunately I read something that MIGHT be one of those weird isolated events and I think it was OFF a compound, but someone had their son walking their dog and both were approached and "mildly assaulted" by offended Mutaween who hit the dog with a stick/cane. The family  eventually gave him away....

I live right here in riyadh but i never heard the story:),How come u got to know it while living in States.

I researched about life there and then read an article in the newspaper here about the dog ban and then called the US Embassy for rules on shipping the dogs. They have a little info on it. Then I contaced the pet re-location services for international. Also you can Google articles on "dogs banned" in Saudi. (Trust me, I didn't make this up). It shocked us.  There were several people who wrote comments and some were Muslims who owned dogs and objected to the ban. So I know it's not a universally held belief and there is some debate in the Koran, but I'm not qualified to comment on that. But, we're learning.

My Friends do own cats and dogs and they bought it from local pet shops,surprisingly there are many pet shops which have varieties of dogs,cats,reptiles,Monkeys,tigers and etc.

In Riyadh,Westerners only and only live in Compounds which provides you vast walking and play area for not only humans but for the pets too.The mutawas has problem with the unnecessary display of these pets or when the Saudi boys use their pet[specially dogs] to show off or harass families.That's it...

i don't mean u made it up but i still believe,the western media usually exaggerates the stories about Saudi and believe me they have pretty good reasons to do it so.

Well. All I can do is try. I will get the forms and submit them. If they are denied no harm no foul. It is not a deal breaker but would mean my wife would not live there full time. Any of you have a spouce that visits?  Thanks again all.

jw,

have heard of several spouses who don't live IN Saudi. Try "Mr Stretch" who's wife lives in another country. I've considered it but we have a child still at home and that would mean no dad, as well as the other downsides. But yes, people do it and we've known many in the military who managed 1-2 year deployments and survived. That's not counting the war assignments either.

Keep on keeping on

nonz wrote:

spitfire8 wrote:

the dog cat issue is culturally specific to Saudi from what I'm reading. I mean, YES there are religious issues but only Saudi has actually banned westerners from bringing dogs in (with the exceptions mentioned though).

(

I live right here in riyadh but i never heard the story:),How come u got to know it while living in States.

Nonz, Hope this clarifies...Anyhow the story about a kid/dog getting harassed was in the blog comments section after the article.  It was not specific to the city of Riyadh as far as I recall. But it was Saudi. Anyhow...not to beat a dead horse, but just to cgive you some data- here's one article on the ban, which has apparently been in effect in parts, since '06, (though not necessarily enforced in the country  AND I saw pics of people with dogs on a compound too, on the internet, by the way, so it IS confusing). Thing is, I think it's easier for them to ban the importing than to stop the sales of the animals in the Kingdom. Who knows? I'm NOT making a judgement about it, but I love my dogs. That's all.

So here's the article from the internet and is one of several that popped up and elsewhere said that it now applied to Riyadh. For me, I'm going to go by what my embassy says is appropriate. I don't see a choice really. Sounds like JW is doing the same. Hope this helps.

JIDDAH, Saudi Arabia —  Saudi Arabia's religious police, normally tasked with chiding women to cover themselves and ensuring men attend mosque prayers, are turning to a new target: cats and dogs.

The police have issued a decree banning the sale of the pets, seen as a sign of Western influence.

The prohibition on dogs may be less of a surprise, since conservative Muslims despise dogs as unclean. But the cat ban befuddled many, since Islamic tradition holds that the Prophet Muhammad loved cats — even in one instance letting a cat drink from his ablutions water before washing himself for prayers.

FOX News CountryWatch: Saudi Arabia

The religious police, known as the Muttawa, have the role of enforcing Saudi Arabia's strict Islamic code. Its members prowl streets and malls, ensuring unmarried men and women do not mix, confronting women they feel are not properly covered or urging men to go to prayers.

But the government also gives the Muttawa wide leeway to enforce any rules they deem necessary to uphold the social order.


The decree — which applies to the Red Sea port city of Jiddah and the holy city of Mecca — bans the sale of cats and dogs because "some youths have been buying them and parading them in public,"according to a memo from the Municipal Affairs Ministry to Jiddah's city government.

The memo, obtained by The Associated Press, urges city authorities to help enforce the ban.

Pet owning is not common in the Arab world, though dogs are kept for hunting and guarding. In large cities around the Middle East, stray dogs often wander the streets and are considered pests. Street cats are also plentiful, and people will often feed them or play with them — but it isn't a widespread custom to keep one in the home, and many cannot afford it.

However, in the past decades, owning dogs or cats has become a fashion statement among Saudis. Showing off a Doberman, pit bull or fancy breed of felines has became a status symbol.

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FOX News CountryWatch: Saudi Arabia
For conservaties, it smells of imitating Western trends, just like the fast food, shorts, jeans and pop music that have become more common in the kingdom, which is ruled by the puritanical Wahhabi interpretation of Islam. They say it should be fought because it is threatening the fabric of Gulf nations.

"One bad habit spreading among our youths is the acquisition of dogs and showing them off in the streets and malls," wrote Aleetha al-Jihani in a letter to Al-Madina newspaper. "There's no doubt that such a matter makes one shudder."

"Then what's the point of dragging a dog behind you?" he added. "This is blind emulation of the infidels."

The decree has not been enforced yet, according to several pet shop owners and veterinary clinics in Jiddah. It applies only to selling dogs and cats, and there was no sign the Muttawa would confiscate pets. The decree did not say whether the religious police would try to stop people from appearing in public with their dog or cat — or whether owners would be allowed to sell puppies or kittens born to their pets.

The ban distressed cat and dog lovers. Some have wondered why the religious police are focusing on this issue when the country has far more important challenges to deal with, such as terrorism and unemployment.

"I was shocked when I heard about it," said Fahd al-Mutairi, who owns 35 pet cats. "What was even more shocking was to hear that the ban came from an authority that has nothing to do with such an issue."

"I would understand if it came from the Health Ministry or anybody charged with ensuring pets coming from outside do not carry diseases," added the 23-year-old flower-shop owner.

No other Arab country puts restrictions on pet owning. In Iran, ruled by Shiite Muslim clerics, religious police sometimes harrass people who are seen outside with their dog. Last year, Iranian police even told people not to bring their dogs out in public, but the order was never backed up by law and dog-owners widely ignored it.

The inclusion of cats in the Saudi ban puzzled many, since there's no similar scorn for them as there is for dogs in Islamic tradition

One of Prophet Muhammad's closest companions was given the name Abu Huraira, Arabic for "the father of the kitten," because he always carried a kitten around with him and took care of it.

A number of hadiths — traditional stories of the prophet — show Muhammad encouraging people to treat cats well.

Once, he let a cat drink from the water that he was going to use for his ablutions before prayers. Another time, Muhammad said a woman who kept a cat locked up without feeding it would go to Hell.

Dogs — considered dirty and dangerous — are less lucky. According to one hadith, Muhammad said a Muslim loses credit for one good deed each day he keeps a dog and even said dogs should be killed unless used for hunting or protection.

Still, in another instance, he said that a prostitute who carried water in her slipper to a thirsty dog would go to heaven, her sins forgiven because of her kindness.

"All these things considered, it is obviously not against our religion or our tradition to have dogs and cats as pets," columnist Abeer Mishkhas wrote in the daily Arab News.

"I sincerely hope (city authorities) will leave the cats and dogs alone and concentrate on what should be their real business," she added.

Al-Mutairi said his friends and relatives cannot understand his passion for his cats, which cost him US$1,000 a month to feed and take care of.

"I tell them this is not a Western innovation," he said. "Our religion says we should take care of animals."

FOX News CountryWatch: Saudi Arabia

Look, all kinds of isolated incidents happen all over the world.

Just because some nutcase mutaween attacked a dog doesn't mean it happens all the time.  Reminds me of people here who think if you go to Manhattan you'll likely be killed because of incidents they've read in the news.

I've been to NYC 100's of times and I'm still alive and kickin'!

My point is, PLEASE don't think that if something happens ONCE here it's the standard.

That said, I don't believe I've ever seen a dog off compound. Muslims, in general, don't like dogs because it says somewhere in the Quran that dogs are unclean and if a house has a dog, angels cannot enter.

If a Muslim touches a dog, that person must wash his/her hands seven times, the last time with sand, in order to become 'clean' again.

Again, I've seen dogs--LARGE DOGS!--on compounds.  If you're in a compound, no need to take your dog on the street.  If you're NOT going to live in a compound (or private villa where, again, you keep it in the walled enclosure), don't bring the dog.

as far as i have seen and know, u can bring dogs, with all the paperwork...and u can even keep them...i see many dogs on sale at all the pet shops

Alliecat wrote:

Look, all kinds of isolated incidents happen all over the world.

Just because some nutcase mutaween attacked a dog doesn't mean it happens all the time.  Reminds me of people here who think if you go to Manhattan you'll likely be killed because of incidents they've read in the news.

I've been to NYC 100's of times and I'm still alive and kickin'!

My point is, PLEASE don't think that if something happens ONCE here it's the standard.

That said, I don't believe I've ever seen a dog off compound. Muslims, in general, don't like dogs because it says somewhere in the Quran that dogs are unclean and if a house has a dog, angels cannot enter.

If a Muslim touches a dog, that person must wash his/her hands seven times, the last time with sand, in order to become 'clean' again.

Again, I've seen dogs--LARGE DOGS!--on compounds.  If you're in a compound, no need to take your dog on the street.  If you're NOT going to live in a compound (or private villa where, again, you keep it in the walled enclosure), don't bring the dog.

Allie have said it all so i don't have to waste anymore bandwith

in 2 weeks time id be working in al jubail and im seriously considering on brining my husbund with me would it be possible?

Regarding dogs in the compound: it is a bit a problem to walk your dog there. I have a 13 year old Black Lab female named Papi. She is the most intelligent and sweet creature on Earth(in my opinion, well... much more intelligent than most people, that is for sure...) We live in a compound where two villas are not happy with it (out of 40). Every time my son takes the dog for a walk they write a complaint to the management. The manager said, that it is fine to walk with the dog on the leash, and does not take the complains seriously. Those people now threatening us that they will poison my dog and such.(Last year our neighbor's 2 dogs "mysteriously" died in one day.) They create stories that dog bit them (almost) and barks so loud, that they can not sleep at night. They live on the other side of the compound in # 4 and 8, and we are in # 34, over the swimming pool and playground.
Things like that may happen, so you should be prepared for it.
Someone told me that I can bring my dog to DQ,and walk it there without problem. Did not do that yet, will try in the future. Also, going further from the city would be a possibility for animal to run...
In June we are moving to a separate house with a big courtyard and backyard, almost every neighbor there has a dog or two. Thinking to get another Very Big Doggy.

[email protected] wrote:

in 2 weeks time id be working in al jubail and im seriously considering on brining my husbund with me would it be possible?

Only if he has been wormed and inoculated and you have the correct paperwork.

I've been neutered myself so I'm not aggressive.