Taking the leap

Good luck with your move... I'm "taking the leap" in December when I will be moving from Thailand to Ho Chi Minh City... Like you I am both nervous and excited at the same time!

tintinmiami2013 wrote:

Hi all,

So I'm 11 months away from packing up and moving to HCMC, Vietnam.  There are too many thoughts and concerns.  I'm so excited, but nervous at the same time.  My mind is spinning with logistical obstacles while my heart is dreaming of the day of eating Pho for $2-3. 

When did you "expat" take the leap?  What motivated your move?  How did you overcome your obstacles (if any)?  Were there any lessons learned you can pass along to a "newbie" like me? 

Any advices is welcomed and I'm sure future expats can use your experience and knowledge.

Best,

Tin Tin

It's not that hard -  sell everything and come here with 2 bags at most.  One for a few changes of clothes (since you can buy cheaper new sets here) and the other for your electronic gear.  If backpackers can live on a light load, so can you.  This is still the "wild wild west" by some standards and you need to be mobile.   

Inflation must really have shot up since a few years ago I arrived here and at Phở for 50 cents (10,000 VND). 

When you get here, don't spend too much time in HCMC.  It's a good transition but the City has changed both economically and culturally to more of a western City.  So you'll feel like you're in Miami again.  You'll find plenty of friends who speak English (since all college students basically learn English - lots of foreign corporations headquartered in HCMC).  After you get settled, buy a motorbike and get out of HCMC.  Go visit all the corners of Vietnam and then you can settle on an area you like best.

Oh, and don't get a girlfriend within the first year you get here.  You'll be swarmed by Siagonese girls.  You can make friends but don't pick one.  Make that a rule.

This also implies you have the financial means to be free to play around the country for a year and not need to be stuck with a job teaching English in HCMC.  I've ran this calculation already if you need help figuring out how much you need.

I am Vietnamese and i think Vietnam is very easy to live...
Many people speak English. Everything is cheap. And you can easy find something you need on the internet...
Welcome to Vietnam...
I will excited when i am planning to move to another country too...hihi.

I'll be taking that leap in 2 months. In the meanwhile during those 11 months you can follow my blogging website. I'll have the website updated more regularly when I'm in Vietnam.

<======

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

This also implies you have the financial means to be free to play around the country for a year and not need to be stuck with a job teaching English in HCMC.  I've ran this calculation already if you need help figuring out how much you need.

Ok I'm curious, what does it cost for a year to live in VN in general and HCMC specifically for a year? Can you break it down monthly by

Accommodations

Food

Transportation

Entertainment

Miscellaneous

Anything not mentioned above

Thanks,

Mark

Good_Man wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

This also implies you have the financial means to be free to play around the country for a year and not need to be stuck with a job teaching English in HCMC.  I've ran this calculation already if you need help figuring out how much you need.

Ok I'm curious, what does it cost for a year to live in VN in general and HCMC specifically for a year? Can you break it down monthly by

Accommodations

Food

Transportation

Entertainment

Miscellaneous

Anything not mentioned above

Thanks,

Mark

Budget accommodations for a room with cable and wifi 3 million per month
Food eating on the street 100,000 per day
Transportation by bus is 5000 per trip
Entertainment the cinema is 70,000 per movie
Beer, 20 bottles 200000 per day
Ice is 2000 per day
For about 13,000,000 a month you can live a simple life getting drunk everyday. You can save money by sharing a bed, in Da Nang I met a guy that was paying 30,000 per day but he shared a bed with a viet male, could have stayed in a dorm with his own bed for 65,000 a day. In smaller villiages the beer and food costs go down. Price of ice is constant I have found.  Now I live well in Da Nang on 20,000,000 per month.

ancientpathos wrote:

Budget accommodations for a room with cable and wifi 3 million per month
Food eating on the street 100,000 per day
Transportation by bus is 5000 per trip
Entertainment the cinema is 70,000 per movie
Beer, 20 bottles 200000 per day
Ice is 2000 per day
For about 13,000,000 a month you can live a simple life getting drunk everyday. You can save money by sharing a bed, in Da Nang I met a guy that was paying 30,000 per day but he shared a bed with a viet male, could have stayed in a dorm with his own bed for 65,000 a day. In smaller villiages the beer and food costs go down. Price of ice is constant I have found.  Now I live well in Da Nang on 20,000,000 per month.

Presuming a conversion rate between 20,500 and 21,000 VND per USD a person can live comfortable and relatively sober in a moderate sized city for less than $1,000 per month.

Thanks that is some useful information

I live on around 10 million to 12 million, but I cook a lot at home and go to local restaurants when going out.I also rent a house in an area that has no expats, so its much cheaper. If you go to Western style cafes and drink at bars catering for  expat men, then the cost will rise dramatically.

Anh THD,

If you can help me figure out how much is a reasonable income and monthly budget, I'd appreciate it. 

Thanks,

Tin Tin

tintinmiami2013 wrote:

Anh THD,

If you can help me figure out how much is a reasonable income and monthly budget, I'd appreciate it. 

Thanks,

Tin Tin

Be happy to.  Please step into

The Offices of Trần Hưng Đạo, CFP, CFA, CFS, ChFC, CIC, CIMA, CMT, CPA, PFS, CLU (and any other certifications I can buy off the black market I forgot to post). 

I'll PM you and ask you a bunch of questions.

Good_Man wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

This also implies you have the financial means to be free to play around the country for a year and not need to be stuck with a job teaching English in HCMC.  I've ran this calculation already if you need help figuring out how much you need.

Ok I'm curious, what does it cost for a year to live in VN in general and HCMC specifically for a year? Can you break it down monthly by

I'm listing this based on a "Standard of Living" that isn't too much of a sacrifice/shock from what we're used to in America.  You could live virtually free if you build yourself a leaf house and just eat rice with crickets but, I'm sure you can't handle it (this is what poor people in the Delta or the Mountains do - well maybe not crickets since they're considered lucky animals but rats -they DO eat RATS in the Mekong Delta).
 
Accommodations
$500 a month to rent a furnished 1br/1b apartment with A/C in HCMC.

Food
3 bucks per meal, 3 meals a day = $9..a day, 30 days a month = $270 a month.  This implies you eat out everyday.

Transportation
$50 to rent a motorbike one month.  Else, you can walk or take a crowded public bus around HCMC for less.  You can spend MUCH MUCH more and risk getting scammed by Taxis if you want to take a taxi to go everywhere.  Costs around $1 a kilometer of travel.  For motorbike, calculate gas = $10 a month (Gas costs around $1 a liter, a motorbike can do about 60 kilometers / liter so give yourself about 600 kilometers a month cruising around the city (or 20 km per day).

Utilities
$30 for A/C (biggest electricity expense you'll use - reason most Vietnamese Citizens do not use A/C but use fans)
$5 water

Total essentials,
$500 lodging
$270 food
$60 transportation
$35 utilities


$865/month....Let's say $900 to cover your essentials like Housing, Food, Transportation and Utilities. 

Entertainment, beer, girls, whatever, is a variable expense and it's up to your spending habits.  I consider phone charges also a variable expense depending on if you just text all the time or like to yak it up.  The more you yak the more it costs since everything is a prepaid service - you buy a card and load your account.  You just need an initial $25 bucks to buy a cheap Nokia brick phone and load your account depending on how much you talk.

So what else do you consider essential?

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

Total essentials,
$500 lodging
$270 food
$60 transportation
$35 utilities


$865/month....Let's say $900 to cover your essentials like Housing, Food, Transportation and Utilities. 

Entertainment, beer, girls, whatever, is a variable expense and it's up to your spending habits.  I consider phone charges also a variable expense depending on if you just text all the time or like to yak it up.  The more you yak the more it costs since everything is a prepaid service - you buy a card and load your account.  You just need an initial $25 bucks to buy a cheap Nokia brick phone and load your account depending on how much you talk.

So what else do you consider essential?

THD You are right I'm not much of a crickets and rice kind of guy, but in a pinch will do whatever.

This presumes living in HCM and would be less for outlying areas.

Great information that covers the essentials.

Thank you

Good_Man wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

Total essentials,
$500 lodging
$270 food
$60 transportation
$35 utilities


$865/month....Let's say $900 to cover your essentials like Housing, Food, Transportation and Utilities. 

Entertainment, beer, girls, whatever, is a variable expense and it's up to your spending habits.  I consider phone charges also a variable expense depending on if you just text all the time or like to yak it up.  The more you yak the more it costs since everything is a prepaid service - you buy a card and load your account.  You just need an initial $25 bucks to buy a cheap Nokia brick phone and load your account depending on how much you talk.

So what else do you consider essential?

THD You are right I'm not much of a crickets and rice kind of guy, but in a pinch will do whatever.

This presumes living in HCM and would be less for outlying areas.

Great information that covers the essentials.

Thank you

Yes.  It is a lot less for the outlying areas.  Before I moved to Việt Nam, I calculated for HCMC as the worst case scenario.  However, I ended up living out in the Province so I'm doing alright.  I did have to "sacrifice" for a fan instead of using AC but stuff like that I got used to.  I don't really mind it after knowing I have money that normally would have went into my living expenses, left over that I can do/buy things to help the average citizen around me.

There's a restaurant that I frequent and meals only costs 50 cents.  To me this is reverse highway robbery; I should really be paying at least $1!  So when I eat there, I usually pay for a stranger in the restaurant that I see looks like he/she is hardest hit (poor, down on luck, hard worker, old lady, lottery salesperson...whatever).  Then I pay the manager $1 and tell him I'm also paying for table #xxxx.  I can't do this if I was living in HCMC.

ancientpathos wrote:

...
Entertainment the cinema is 70,000 per movie
...

You don't get the pirated DVD vendor on a cart that comes by your house selling a DVD with FIVE movies for only 7,000 VND? 
I uh...only hear about this type of horrible horrible transgression to the American and Hong Kong movie industries...uh yah.

Good_Man wrote:

ancientpathos wrote:

Budget accommodations for a room with cable and wifi 3 million per month
Food eating on the street 100,000 per day
Transportation by bus is 5000 per trip
Entertainment the cinema is 70,000 per movie
Beer, 20 bottles 200000 per day
Ice is 2000 per day
For about 13,000,000 a month you can live a simple life getting drunk everyday. You can save money by sharing a bed, in Da Nang I met a guy that was paying 30,000 per day but he shared a bed with a viet male, could have stayed in a dorm with his own bed for 65,000 a day. In smaller villiages the beer and food costs go down. Price of ice is constant I have found.  Now I live well in Da Nang on 20,000,000 per month.

Presuming a conversion rate between 20,500 and 21,000 VND per USD a person can live comfortable and relatively sober in a moderate sized city for less than $1,000 per month.

Thanks that is some useful information

To be honest, for a retiree (I was going to say old fart but seeing you're such a "good man"..)like yourself, Good_Man, you should live about 10 km from an urban area (any that is the size of a town level - called a "Thị xã").  You're not going to be going karaoke or living it up every night so you don't need the extra expense of being where everything is at.  Just a weekly trip into town to enjoy the modern day living.  Out in the Province/country, you can enjoy the clean air, lack of traffic, and lack of pesky young people....the peace and quiet every American retiree wants but can't afford because of Social Security cuts and their 401k tanking big time.  I'm actually amazed why Việt Nam hasn't become the next Florida yet. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/edwardsiedl … n-history/

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

To be honest, for a retiree (I was going to say old fart but seeing you're such a "good man"..)like yourself, Good_Man, you should live about 10 km from an urban area (any that is the size of a town level - called a "Thị xã").  You're not going to be going karaoke or living it up every night so you don't need the extra expense of being where everything is at.  Just a weekly trip into town to enjoy the modern day living.  Out in the Province/country, you can enjoy the clean air, lack of traffic, and lack of pesky young people....the peace and quiet every American retiree wants but can't afford because of Social Security cuts and their 401k tanking big time.  I'm actually amazed why Việt Nam hasn't become the next Florida yet. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/edwardsiedl … n-history/

Interesting but very true article, but I'm neither a retiree or an old fart; not quite a young fart so I guess more like a middle to late fart.

Your description of suburban living is much more to my liking. Not a big city kind of guy and the crickets and rice living previously discussed is a bit too country for me.

Good_Man wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

To be honest, for a retiree (I was going to say old fart but seeing you're such a "good man"..)like yourself, Good_Man, you should live about 10 km from an urban area (any that is the size of a town level - called a "Thị xã").  You're not going to be going karaoke or living it up every night so you don't need the extra expense of being where everything is at.  Just a weekly trip into town to enjoy the modern day living.  Out in the Province/country, you can enjoy the clean air, lack of traffic, and lack of pesky young people....the peace and quiet every American retiree wants but can't afford because of Social Security cuts and their 401k tanking big time.  I'm actually amazed why Việt Nam hasn't become the next Florida yet. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/edwardsiedl … n-history/

Interesting but very true article, but I'm neither a retiree or an old fart; not quite a young fart so I guess more like a middle to late fart.

Your description of suburban living is much more to my liking. Not a big city kind of guy and the crickets and rice living previously discussed is a bit too country for me.

You're right.  Social Security age would be considered old fart status.  Why don't you just retire early...save up enough to swing the gap until you get SS?  Even the pittance SS gives you (it was really meant as a supplemental retirement source), you can easily survive on that in suburban Việt Nam.  Still aiming for 2014?

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

You're right.  Social Security age would be considered old fart status.  Why don't you just retire early...save up enough to swing the gap until you get SS?  Even the pittance SS gives you (it was really meant as a supplemental retirement source), you can easily survive on that in suburban Việt Nam.  Still aiming for 2014?

Retire? What's that? Not sure if I'll ever truly "retire" in the true sense of the word. I like the mental stimulation of personal and professional interactions too much. That is why I am contemplating what I will do when I move to VN. Not sure if I'll volunteer as I see posted here from time to time, maybe teach English in the burbs or hook up with some friends in VN to start a business.

One step at a time though and the first one is to wrap things up here and as you so adeptly put it, sell my crap and pack everything in a couple of bags and head for the warmth of VN.

Looking forward to the warmer climate to be sure. It was -2c here this morning and not a big fan of winter in the Mid-Atlantic region.


Yes, I'll be there in Q1-14 as all the plans are pointing to now. Hope to catch up with you over a beer or two

Good_Man wrote:

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

You're right.  Social Security age would be considered old fart status.  Why don't you just retire early...save up enough to swing the gap until you get SS?  Even the pittance SS gives you (it was really meant as a supplemental retirement source), you can easily survive on that in suburban Việt Nam.  Still aiming for 2014?

Retire? What's that? Not sure if I'll ever truly "retire" in the true sense of the word. I like the mental stimulation of personal and professional interactions too much. That is why I am contemplating what I will do when I move to VN. Not sure if I'll volunteer as I see posted here from time to time, maybe teach English in the burbs or hook up with some friends in VN to start a business.

One step at a time though and the first one is to wrap things up here and as you so adeptly put it, sell my crap and pack everything in a couple of bags and head for the warmth of VN.

Looking forward to the warmer climate to be sure. It was -2c here this morning and not a big fan of winter in the Mid-Atlantic region.


Yes, I'll be there in Q1-14 as all the plans are pointing to now. Hope to catch up with you over a beer or two

Great!  That's soon.  I don't drink beer but I'll take you up on an iced tea though (you can drink the beer).  Then we can talk about starting an English speaking only taxi company, an English speaking only Cafe or some other ideas to keep you active.

-2c (28.4 f) and you're complaining?  I've lived through -40 f so there's always someone that has it worse.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

ancientpathos wrote:

...
Entertainment the cinema is 70,000 per movie
...

You don't get the pirated DVD vendor on a cart that comes by your house selling a DVD with FIVE movies for only 7,000 VND? 
I uh...only hear about this type of horrible horrible transgression to the American and Hong Kong movie industries...uh yah.

The chinese subtitles are hard to read.

did you know -40 is the same whether fahrenheit or celsius? -40 is pretty common here in Calgary during winters. Your snot freezes in less than a second. brrrrrrrrr

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

Great!  That's soon.  I don't drink beer but I'll take you up on an iced tea though (you can drink the beer).  Then we can talk about starting an English speaking only taxi company, an English speaking only Cafe or some other ideas to keep you active.

-2c (28.4 f) and you're complaining?  I've lived through -40 f so there's always someone that has it worse.

Iced tea it is!

I like your English speaking only business ideas in a foreign country. I'm sure you've done the market research and already have a business plan and money for investment. Regardless I'm open to suggestions and I'll remember to leave my skepticism at the door.

-2c on November 4 is not my idea of a good time. But like you I've lived through cold weather. I was stationed at Great Lakes Naval station in January and February where the average temp on the morning march to chow was -40c/f. Having to stand in formation for 15 minutes waiting to get in the mess hall was like a bunch of mancicles lined up. I can do it, but my preference is not to just like eating crickets and rice. It's the old been there, done that, don't want to do it again kind of thing