Dangers of Sleeper bus travel in Vietnam

In Việt Nam, stories of bus accidents I have read most come from bus drivers driving recklessly at high speed.  Many obstacles in the road do not have reflectivity.   

News from today in fact:
http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/page … sions.aspx

In India, it's the authority who fix the running time and the drivers are responsible for almost every road accidents.Also roads are too bad. There, so many private bus permit allowed by taking bribery. If the drivers late more than running time, they will cancel the bus permit. So bus owners instruct the drivers reach on time. Because of many reasons they cannot drive at a normal speed.
Here, in Vietnam, there is not that kind of threat towards drivers so they can drive safely if they want.

Then explain to me why they drive at breakneck speed,  pass on blind curves and charge through everything with their horns blaring if they could be driving safely?

To know that, you should ride on an elephant! Then you feel you are the topmost in this world and others are just waste creatures Heavy vehicle drivers feel the same!

DirtyPierre wrote:

Then explain to me why they drive at breakneck speed,  pass on blind curves and charge through everything with their horns blaring if they could be driving safely?

Bus Travel in Vietnam is a great way to die prematurely. Tried it once, HCMC to Da Nang return. The night run up was calm enough. on the return (daytime) leg, the bus fell behind schedule and we endured two hours of daredevil traffic tag with several near misses and frequent emergency braking. Apparently, it was all about hitting the depot in HCMC on schedule. We passed 2 fatal accidents on the return trip - possibly 3. Stick to aeroplanes, please.

If Vietnamese can't drive their buses, what makes you think they can pilot airplanes or conduct trains any better?  Did you guys see some of the airplanes they had on those shorter trips?   

But, I do get what you guys are saying.  That is why I moved to biking.

So that now means you are further down the food chain.
And pedestrians and dogs are at the bottom. lol

Wild_1 wrote:

If Vietnamese can't drive their buses, what makes you think they can pilot airplanes or conduct trains any better?  Did you guys see some of the airplanes they had on those shorter trips?   

But, I do get what you guys are saying.  That is why I moved to biking.

You mean the airplane that lost its wheel?

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/societ … nding.html

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/societ … o-cai.html
Click on link above of another bus crash in a ravine killing 7 and injuring 25 others.

DirtyPierre wrote:

Take a train or fly.

I can't fly. I tried flapping my arms really quickly but nothing happened besides my arms getting tired. I also tried jumping but was only in the air for about 2 seconds and just traveled a few feet...

In all seriousness I have mixed feelings about this thread/advice. On the one hand it has compelled me to feel that I should investigate this issue more in an effort to try and quantify, to whatever extent possible, the risk level associated with long distance bus travel in Vietnam - something that could possibly motivate me to take a train or flight in situations in which I may otherwise consider bus travel. 

On the other hand I regularly go somewhere where the suggested alternative travel methods are not on offer (as is the case with many places in Vietnam) and am concerned that all this worrying about potential busing related hazards would probably be more likely to result in a few more grey hairs and some lost sleep on my trips than it is to save my life.

I would hazard an only somewhat educated guess based on my limited personal experiences that I am safer on my long distance bus trips than I would be spending the same time walking around or riding a motorbike around HCMC. 

Just my random thoughts...

Nam_ wrote:

DirtyPierre wrote:

Take a train or fly.

I can't fly. I tried flapping my arms really quickly but nothing happened besides my arms getting tired. I also tried jumping but was only in the air for about 2 seconds and just traveled a few feet...
.

Isn't that an old Bob Hope joke when he was doing his USO tours?

"I just flew in from the States, and boy my arms are tired.

SimonEPB wrote:

Bus Travel in Vietnam is a great way to die prematurely. Tried it once, HCMC to Da Nang...We passed 2 fatal accidents on the return trip - possibly 3. Stick to aeroplanes, please.

Were those people who died riding buses? I mean I hope they weren't hit by buses (well they're dead so maybe it doesn't matter what they were hit by - the result is the same) but this thread seems to be about the relative safety of bus travel. So if those people didn't die while riding the bus their deaths might be more of an indictment of the relative safety of whatever travel method they were using.

Wild_1 wrote:

I do get what you guys are saying.  That is why I moved to biking.

Oh cmon. I know everybody thinks they are the greatest driver in the world but that can't be safer than taking a bus. I may be wrong, I'm not going to seek out empirical evidence to back up my guess but logically speaking I would think riding the bus to be the safer travel method (there's also the issue of transporting minor possessions, I would think the risk of someone trying to take my backpack - however remote - and causing an accident that way would be greater than the risk of dying while riding the bus but like I said I could be wrong).

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

Isn't that an old Bob Hope joke when he was doing his USO tours?

"I just flew in from the States, and boy my arms are tired.

I thought I made it up just then but I have heard that Bob Hope joke before so maybe that's where I got it. I think there have been various jokes by comedians about flapping one's arm in an attempt to fly (not to mention Looney Tunes cartoons, my personal favorite is the bit where someone is only susceptible to the laws of gravity if they are aware that they are in the air) over the years.

I also vaguely remember a joke made by a member of the Harlem Globetrotters in response to a traveling violation call...

We have a situation in Vietnam where the economy is such that there are more and more heavy trucks on the road from Hanoi to HCMC Hwy A1. There is a shortage of qualified drivers and combined with the silly practice of removing the original factory supplied tyres and replacing them with cheap Chinese produced tyres to save money causing unnecessary blow outs at high speed, yes the overall speed limit has been raised on certain sections of the hwy but unfortunately the skills to drive at those higher speeds don't exist hence when a blowout occurs and the truck pulls up in the middle of the road a following bus has a driver unskilled at driving at the new speed and lacking any training in evasive driving skills slams into the back of the stationary vehicle causing massive damage, often multiple deaths. This has become a regular occurrence in Vietnam in the last two years but is usually buried in local Vietnamese language papers that the English speaking public don't have access to. My Vietnamese partner however is continuingly reading them out to me.
Another problem we have is those same unskilled truck drivers are falling asleep at the wheel and straying over onto the wrong side of the road creating devastating head on collisions with buses bursting into flames on impact.

Nam, I have traveled by bus a fair bit in Vietnam. Saigon to Dalat and Nha Trang and back. Dalat to Nha Trang and back. Nha Trang to Pleiku, then Ban Me Thuot, then Dalat to Saigon, Saigon to Can Tho. And from Can Tho to Chau Doc and back. Plus the $1 equivalent local bus ride from Ban Me thuot to Ban Don and back. Not to mention local buses in Saigon and Hanoi.

All that said, I take Dirty Pierre's post on sleeper buses seriously. I prefer to ride up front whether sleeper or seat, and cannot count the times my knuckles were white from putting a death grip on the bar or seat in front of me as the driver played chicken with on-coming trucks or decided that he needed to pass on that steep mountain curve, the one where you are looking down a few hundred feet.

Vietnamese aren't the most reckless drivers in the world. For me that title goes to Bolivian truck drivers who've been sucking on a wad of Pistchu (coca leaves) for a week or so with little sleep. But they're in the running, primarily due to the pressures noted.

Will I take a sleeper bus these days? Maybe, depending upon the route, time of day, and available transportation options. But then, I've also taken ferries in the Philippines and Central America. Haven't gone down in one of those, yet. But I have met Americans who have, and survived. Who knows, it might just not be your day.

DP, thanks again for your insights.

lirelou wrote:

Will I take a sleeper bus these days? Maybe, depending upon the route, time of day, and available transportation options. But then, I've also taken ferries in the Philippines and Central America. Haven't gone down in one of those, yet. But I have met Americans who have, and survived. Who knows, it might just not be your day.

Thank you for sharing your experiences lirelou, I will definitely think twice before taking a bus to a faraway location where rail is available.

Meanwhile I'm pretty sure buses are the only option in the Mekong Delta region as far as public transportation goes no? It will be interesting to see how much actual sleep I get in my sleeper this weekend, hmm...

The problem is more acute between Hanoi and HCMC as that is the main freight route in Vietnam. But you will still find crazy drivers going hell for leather anywhere in Sth East Asia.

So is there any safe means of transport in Vietnam?

Trains and planes for intercity. Buses within cities and private cars with a good driver who will listen to your requests to slow down. I ride a motorbike daily in HCMC and feel safe doing so yet I won't use a bus on Hwy 1.

Trains and planes for intercity. Buses within cities and private cars with a good driver who will listen to your requests to slow down. I ride a motorbike daily in HCMC and feel safe doing so yet I won't use a bus on Hwy 1.

I thought riding a motorbike is equally as unsafe. I read that a two lane road turns in a four lane road! ..

Jazzy851
How can I make it any plainer for you? I feel safe riding a motorbike daily in HCMC yet I don't feel safe in an overnight sleeper bus on Hwy 1.
Doesn't that tell you that I have calculated the risk is too high for me to travel on a sleeper bus. If you feel that riding a motorbike is dangerous then how much more dangerous is the bus? Everything we do has an element of danger to it but I prefer to stack the odds on my side. Placing those odds in the hands of untrained bus drivers is not the way I would go.

good luck to you....

jazzy851 wrote:

Trains and planes for intercity. Buses within cities and private cars with a good driver who will listen to your requests to slow down. I ride a motorbike daily in HCMC and feel safe doing so yet I won't use a bus on Hwy 1.

I thought riding a motorbike is equally as unsafe. I read that a two lane road turns in a four lane road! ..

Motorbikes are unsafe if you're coming from a car-centric traffic environment like the UK, US.  However because the motorbike is the majority in Việt Nam, it is safer to use than the UK or the US because car/auto drivers are always cognizant of crazy motorbike riders.  This is very true inside dense urban areas like HCMC. 

Out in the countryside, it is also risky because buses and trucks travel at high speeds and view motorbikes as cockroaches that just get in the way.  So they'll honk and bully their way past the motorbike.  That's why you need to use the mirrors and be aware of traffic around you.  I still find it so odd that the majority of Vietnamese drivers don't know how to use their mirrors and many will remove the mirrors from their motorbikes entirely.

DirtyPierre wrote:

We have a situation in Vietnam where the economy is such that there are more and more heavy trucks on the road from Hanoi to HCMC Hwy A1. There is a shortage of qualified drivers and combined with the silly practice of removing the original factory supplied tyres and replacing them with cheap Chinese produced tyres to save money causing unnecessary blow outs at high speed, yes the overall speed limit has been raised on certain sections of the hwy but unfortunately the skills to drive at those higher speeds don't exist hence when a blowout occurs and the truck pulls up in the middle of the road a following bus has a driver unskilled at driving at the new speed and lacking any training in evasive driving skills slams into the back of the stationary vehicle causing massive damage, often multiple deaths. This has become a regular occurrence in Vietnam in the last two years but is usually buried in local Vietnamese language papers that the English speaking public don't have access to. My Vietnamese partner however is continuingly reading them out to me.

Not to mention that most of these US trucks would have done the obligatory 1 mil miles, ( not KMs ), in the US before being dumped in VN, ( how else do you think VN's could afford them? )
   If you drove the same truck for a company in the US, after you have done that mil, some will actually give you that truck.

bluenz wrote:

....
Not to mention that most of these US trucks would have done the obligatory 1 mil miles, ( not KMs ), in the US before being dumped in VN, ( how else do you think VN's could afford them? )
   If you drove the same truck for a company in the US, after you have done that mil, some will actually give you that truck.

Very true.  I've seen so many old rickety buses and trucks on the road spewing out a factory-load of exhaust fumes.  I've seen a lot of Russian-made type trucks too since the US doesn't make 4 front-wheeled trucks (it uses 4 wheels to turn instead of the usual 2).

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

Very true.  I've seen so many old rickety buses and trucks on the road spewing out a factory-load of exhaust fumes.  I've seen a lot of Russian-made type trucks too since the US doesn't make 4 front-wheeled trucks (it uses 4 wheels to turn instead of the usual 2).

Yes why is that the US doesn't have Tandem steer trucks?, a properly maintained Tandem steer would have to be one of the safest trucks on the road, ( you get a blow out and you can still steer it, and it distributes the load more evenly ).
  They have tandem steer, triple rear axle rigid trucks , and prime movers in Aus, ( carry 20 ton ).