Looking to get job in Indonesia

Hallo Aman123.

I've moved your message to the Indonesia Forum for more visibility and interaction with the other members.

In which sector are you looking for a job?

Thanks.

Karen

I will join this thread with another question related to this - how hard is to get working visa, if you've got university degree in IT or similar specialization?

Hi Dworza,

I will suggest you to create a new topic on the Indonesia forum for better interaction.

Regards,

David.

Thank you so much. Well, sales marketing, finance and accounting is my field. Actually this is my last semester I will be graduating on december 2014. And are there many companies who hire foreigner?

You have about the same amount of chance of being legally hired here as I have the chance of winning the next Irish Lottery.

Jobs in Indonesia are for Indonesians first, and there are plenty of them with the same education and qualifications that you have.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is...and hopefully, will remain.

Ubudian wrote:

Jobs in Indonesia are for Indonesians first, and there are plenty of them with the same education and qualifications that you have.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is...and hopefully, will remain.

I understand that Ubudian, but on the other hand, my friends, who have been studying mechanical engineering in Indonesia as exchange students have been told, that there is lack of professionals in technical sphere and even if there are locals with the same degree, the level of the education in Indonesia is much worse than in Europe, therefore large companies and corporations don't hesitate to hire some bule for executive position (if there even is some crazy bule, who would love to move to JKT from some cosy europian town to live & work there). But there is lack of qualified engineers worldwide..

To explain why I say, that the level of the education at indonesian universities is worse then for example in my country - the amount of subjects, that is normal for us to study in one semester, locals study for 4 semesters And the whole way, how they teach the students is at least weird...

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=293005

If the level of education here in Indonesia is so bad then why are your friends foreign exchange students here? 

In reality, as a technical college the Bandung Institute of Technology is highly rated.  Moreover, more Indonesians than ever are attending universities across the globe, a much broader expansion of what used to be called The Berkeley Mafia. 

But you are right about there being job opportunities here in the technical sector where specialized skills and knowledge are required.  This is because there aren't enough qualified Indonesians to fill all those jobs and the demand for those types of jobs is high as you note. 

The vast majority of folks who come on this forum looking for work aren't in that category however, rather they are generally very young and looking for jobs in bars, restaurants, hotels, as life guards, teachers…etc.

In any event, discussions about jobs for foreigners in Indonesia will become all but moot in 2015 when the AEC agreement kicks in.

Ubudian wrote:

If the level of education here in Indonesia is so bad then why are your friends foreign exchange students here?

If you'd be 23 year old guy from boring country in the central Europe and you'd have an opportunity to travel and live in such an exotic country as Indonesia, would you hesitate? Moreover when your school pays you scholarship for that (more than you would need for living in Indonesia - scholarship from our school is always the same and it doesn't matter if you're on exchange in Indonesia or in US) and indonesian goverment doesn't require any school fees from you?

Actually they've been studying at ITB, but as I've said - the level of education there is not so high as they've been expecting from experiences from our university.

Ubudian wrote:

In any event, discussions about jobs for foreigners in Indonesia will become all but moot in 2015 when the AEC agreement kicks in.

Can you please explain, what should that AEC agreement be? I tried to google something about it, but I didn't find anything useful. Thank you.

“If you'd be 23 year old guy from boring country in the central Europe and you'd have an opportunity to travel and live in such an exotic country as Indonesia, would you hesitate?”

Probably not, but if the primary reason for my exchange year was university level education, I'd be picking the college, not the country where it's located. 

“Actually they've been studying at ITB, but as I've said - the level of education there is not so high as they've been expecting from experiences from our university.”

Really?

Would their alternative to studying at ITB be to study at Brno University of Technology in the Czech Republic?

To put this into proper perspective, Brno has an overall QS world ranking of 601 whereas ITB has an overall QS ranking of 451 and a ranking of 109 for Engineering and Technology (Brno not being specifically ranked for Engineering and Technology).  MIT (as expected) is number 1 so there you are.

ITB is the number 1 university in Indonesia and it's extremely hard for Indonesians to get into this highly regarded university…so, if I were a Czech exchange student having the opportunity to study at ITB I might consider being a whole lot more appreciative of the privilege.   

“Can you please explain, what should that AEC agreement be?

The 2015 AEC agreement by the ten member countries of ASEAN amounts to a free exchange of labor between these countries.  For example, if you're an Indonesian and want to live and work in Thailand (or any other ASEAN member country) then you can and without the restrictions currently in place, and visa versa, etc. etc.

The obvious effect of this 2015 ASEAN agreement will be that while it is currently very difficult at any level for foreigners to get a good job in Indonesia, for non ASEAN foreigners it will be next to impossible come 2015.

There are many foreign students in Indonesia and I fully support their choice.
The choice of uni is important but the choice of country comes a very close second.
An example.
A sound British chap going to an American collage, won't really pick up that much that he wouldn't in England but the same chap would learn a whole new way to live if he studied in Indonesia.

Sometimes, in my humble opinion, the collage is on the streets, not just in the lecture theatre.

Ubudian wrote:

“Can you please explain, what should that AEC agreement be?

The 2015 AEC agreement by the ten member countries of ASEAN amounts to a free exchange of labor between these countries.  For example, if you're an Indonesian and want to live and work in Thailand (or any other ASEAN member country) then you can and without the restrictions currently in place, and visa versa, etc. etc.

The obvious effect of this 2015 ASEAN agreement will be that while it is currently very difficult at any level for foreigners to get a good job in Indonesia, for non ASEAN foreigners it will be next to impossible come 2015.

I see more than just that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_sta … an_Nations

The member states are not exactly economically equal, or even especially politically stable, so I see attempts at mass population movement from poor to rich.
Toss in, many people might want to remove themselves from a given government's political idea and you could easily have a problem for some states.

That, as Ubudian stated, may well harden attitudes towards foreigners in general but for non ASEAN foreigners; it's very likely to be the last nail in the coffin of their hope to work in Indonesia.

However, think happy thoughts; Myanmar is very likely going to be trawling the world for people to replace its lost population.

Ubudian wrote:

Probably not, but if the primary reason for my exchange year was university level education, I'd be picking the college, not the country where it's located.

Our universities have some contract so if you pass the subject at ITB, is it the same like if you'd pass it at our university.

Ubudian wrote:

To put this into proper perspective, Brno has an overall QS world ranking of 601 whereas ITB has an overall QS ranking of 451 and a ranking of 109 for Engineering and Technology (Brno not being specifically ranked for Engineering and Technology).  MIT (as expected) is number 1 so there you are.

I'm not studying in Brno but in Czech Technical University in Prague - in QS it's 10 positions bellow ITB. This is an OT, but I don't think, that QS ranking can tell, how hard is to study at some university and how prepared for real job will you be, after you finish your studies. QS ranking is being made from Academic peer review (40%),Faculty student ratio (20%),Citations per faculty (20%),Recruiter review (10%) and International orientation (10%). So it more shows the qualities of the lecturers than the qualities of the students. It's maybe the whole indonesian school system, where students are forced to memorize more then to think... But it's not my own experience, so I can't say anything more about it..I just sell, what I've bought..

Ubudian wrote:

ITB is the number 1 university in Indonesia and it's extremely hard for Indonesians to get into this highly regarded university…so, if I were a Czech exchange student having the opportunity to study at ITB I might consider being a whole lot more appreciative of the privilege.

True..hard to get in, but not so hard to finish it..

And thanks for the explanation of AEC agreement..

Fred writes,

“That, as Ubudian stated, may well harden attitudes towards foreigners in general but for non ASEAN foreigners; it's very likely to be the last nail in the coffin of their hope to work in Indonesia.”

I think so Fred, and personally, I don't see that as a negative for Indonesia. 

Why should Indonesia be an open job market for westerners who have no allegiances or ties to the country? 

As one Balinese legislator recently put it to me, “we have far too many guests invited to dinner who have forgotten to leave after dinner.” In other words, tourism is being replaced by immigration.   

A funny comment in Balinese kampungs that one used to frequently hear from curious kids was “where you from?”  These days one is more apt to hear, “when you go home?” 

Many areas of southern Bali…Kuta, Legian and Seminyak, (just to mention three), have been wiped completely clean of any Balinese distinction.  Many western expats in those areas live in what I call “bule ghettos” completely segregated from the remaining Balinese populous.   

For what it's worth, this is a current topic of discussion on another forum:

http://www.homeinbali.com/forum/topic/6 … eaningful/

Where are you from and what can you do?

I am from Nepal but studying in South Korea. My major is marketing and finance.

Does this mean that you speak fluent Korean?

South Korea is a major trading partner of Indonesia. Whereas most senior positions in Korean subsidiaries are occupied by South Korean expats, mid-management positions tend to be open towards qualified applicants.

If you speak fluent Korean, English and Indonesian you have a definite advantage.

Who are you working for now and can you provide any letters of recommendation from your present or another South Korean company?

Paul

Ya. I can speak fluent Korean, English but basic in Bahasa.  Well actually this is my last semester in university.

Very good point!  Difficulty to get in a university DOES NOT to equate to difficulty to complete.  Everything is for sale here in Indonesia.  Well documented reports that major universities especially medical universities can attended regardless what an individuals past study scores are for just more money than for good students!

Another note!  Amazing to here that all expats will be jobless and have to go home there their rightful homelands in 2015.  That is except those that have married a local and have three sons and a contributor to the betterment of Indonesia! haha

So, are you packing early doc_bay, haha? 

Hmm getting job here sometimes easy sometimes difficult, better start to search it before , hmm could try linkedin.. there are some offer related IT and some of my friends/clients working on that kind of job

Ubudian wrote:

Why should Indonesia be an open job market for westerners who have no allegiances or ties to the country?

The question should be "Why not?". If there is nobody from the locals, who would be enough skilled to take that job, then the company should have opportunity to hire some foreign expert. Of course the company would have to make him to move to Indonesia and pay him much more than to the local, because otherwise it would not be probably worth for him. I just think, that it should be the choice of the company and the market shouldn't be restricted by the goverment. And it doesn't matter if it's a labour market or market with comodities.. Imho it should always be the question of request and offer.

On the other hand I must say, that Bali is really crowded with expats and it looks terrible. Although I was spending some time in the east of the isle, not in Kuta or Seminyak, but Amed and Candidasa, I've seen so many bule people both turists and immigrants... And actually this spoiled my time on Bali because lot of them behaved like dumbasses, especially to the locals.. And that's maybe also the reason, why I (probably as one of the few foreigners) don't like Bali and prefer living in the stinky and ugly Jakarta (actually I would prefer Bandung, but I don't expect to get there job at all)..And I also know, that lot of them work there on positions, that could be occupied by the locals, as the waiters, scuba instructors, hotel managers, DJs, lifeguards and many others.. So you're partially right Ubudian, but I just don't think, that this is a problem that should be solved by the goverment the way that they almost restrict to all foregners to work there...because qualified workforce would help to the local economy, not to harm it.

Thank you for the info, guys..Although that, what I've learned didn't make me happy at all :-/ At least I will not expect any high chances..

ochie wrote:

Hmm getting job here sometimes easy sometimes difficult, better start to search it before , hmm could try linkedin.. there are some offer related IT and some of my friends/clients working on that kind of job

Thanks for the advice, ochie. Linkedin was of course the first channel, where I was seeking for some info and for some headhunters. But I didn't find any indonesian IT group there. Just groups for executive positions, group for headhunters and general group for job offers. I've also connected with some headhunters, but there is apparently no interest from their side..unlike czech,slovak,german or french headhunters who are trying their best to find some suitable position for you.. :-/

“…because qualified workforce would help to the local economy, not to harm it.”

How can a foreign workforce improve the local economy if those jobs could be filled by local citizens? 

Indonesia is very open to foreign investment…but not to foreign employees, and that makes perfect economic sense.

The only singular reason to employ foreigners is when the available local labor force cannot fulfill the requirements of the job. 

Indonesia acknowledges its responsibility to educate its populous to fulfill the work demands of the future, and that my friend is good responsible governance. 

The labor market is not the same as the commodities market…they are apples and oranges.  Jobs represent opportunity for growth and development.  Squandering those opportunities on foreigners is not good governance, nor does it make economic sense.

Ubudian wrote:

Indonesia acknowledges its responsibility to educate its populous to fulfill the work demands of the future, and that my friend is good responsible governance.

I understand and agree that, but to educate people doesn't mean to close your labour market.

Ubudian wrote:

The labor market is not the same as the commodities market…they are apples and oranges...

I don't agree. If the company is willing to pay for some foreigner better than for some local, than it's its' choice. The goverment shouldn't say to anybody who to employ. It's the same like we have in europian union with food - the polish farmers can produce much cheaper vegetable and milk than czech, so some of our farmers gone bankrupt, some of them started to produce something else. And of course our local companies, that produce food buy better ingredient from Poland, because they are cheaper than locals...and our goverment didn't do anything to protect our farmers because it's their problem - if they are not able to compete with other farmers, then they're probably not good enough for their busines...and in adittion - it's their private business, so why the hell should goverment care about them? If you open your own restaurant and then some chinese immigrant opens his restaurant just next to yours, you'll go bankrupt, will anybody care?

Probably I just can't accept your point of view only because of that I'm from Europe and for me it's quite natural, that in every company there are foreigners - in the department where I work now, there are cca 100 people and like 15 of them are not the citizens of the Czech Republic - they are mostly slovak and sometimes from other eastern countries (but I've been working with some germans, austrians or indians at one department as well). Mostly the top management of large companies are foreigners only. Half of my family works in Germany and thanks to the EU it's really easy to get a work permit in another EU country. Of course that there is an unemployemnt (for younger people) in EU, especially in southern countries, but if the company wants to employ you better than some local, it can of course. We could talk about this till the end of our days, so I think, that we should better stop to discuss this topic, because we both have different opinion that we will probably not change

I think you need to put the horse before the cart, rather than behind it.  Jobs are the fruits of a growing economy, and by right of citizenship, those fruits belong first to the citizens.

Indonesian citizens have an inalienable right to jobs within Indonesia.  Surrendering or abdicating those rights to foreigners is an unacceptable negligence of the responsibilities of government, and yes, it is very much the responsibility of government to protect its labor force just as it is the responsibility of government to protect its citizens from foreign aggression. 

There is absolutely no interest in Indonesia to even look down the path leading to a scheme like the EU, let alone considering to walk down that path.  There is no logical need, reason, or plausible benefit to Indonesia to even consider such folly. 

But you're right about one thing, that being that you and I will never likely see eye to eye on this matter, and for that I thank God and the astute national leadership of Indonesia.

Unlike other countries, Indonesia does not have a sign outside of its Parliament buildings which reads, DI JUAL…for sale.

Hi friends,iam arun iam from india.i just completed my post graduation.in english.and i am waiting for my results.i am really looking forward to  work in jakartha..or in any where in indonesia.i am really interested in teaching .apart from that iam a trained safety professional with one year diploma.could any of you help me please.?

arundas

To be blunt, you will not get a job in Indonesia as you have no experience and very little qualifications.   

Indonesian citizens are able to do the job you are looking for.

Oh c'mon guys.. there is no need to be rude..

indostocks wrote:

Let employers employ who they wish, let property rights be respected and protected, let employees and businesspeople put roots in the places where their talents and skills are best employed.

This might interest you:
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013 … 731254#%21

Did you read this part too?

"To acquire property ownership rights, however, according to Agus, foreigners will have to comply with tough requirements. For example, they would have to own a business in Indonesia and should they want to sell their property, they would only be allowed to sell it to the government."

The effect of this would actually make property rights for foreigners in Indonesia further removed from where they presently are.

Currently, foreign investment PMA companies are allowed to purchase land, and if they later decide to sell that land there is no requirement that it be sold to the government.

Don't count on any changes in current Indonesian law making it possible for foreigners to own land here in Indonesia.  There is far too much agreement that such a change would sound the death knell of Indonesia…and I wholeheartedly agree.  Moreover, there is absolutely no sound reason or potential benefit to Indonesia to change the property laws as they currently exist.

Indonesia...tidak di jual!

I've read it through and actually I don't count care about changing indonesian laws at all, because I'm the last person on the world, who would be interested in owning some land or property in Indonesia.. I've just posted it here, because I've thought, that it might interest you, when we're talking here about indonesian immigration policy.

some articles :

http://www.internations.org/jakarta-exp … arta-15425http://jakartaexpat.biz/featured/employ … indonesia/http://jakarta.angloinfo.com/informatio … mployment/

Dear all,

Please note that some posts have been moved because we were going off topic.
Could we please concentrate on the subject and avoid personal attacks?

Thanks
Armand

Aman123 wrote:

Thank you so much. Well, sales marketing, finance and accounting is my field. Actually this is my last semester I will be graduating on december 2014. And are there many companies who hire foreigner?

Your answer is - None.

Lots of locals available and suitably qualified so you have no hope at all, not a snowball's chance in hell.

Foreigners legally married to Indonesians have some, limited rights but it's hardly what it is in such as the UK.
In general terms, allowing foreigners in to take much needed local jobs is a bad idea for any country and would cause a lot of problems but I do believe, a man legally married to an Indonesian should be allowed full rights to take care of his family as any good husband should.

Other than that one exception, I fully agree with Indonesia's policy on this matter.
However, I'm giving serious thought to becoming WNI so, if that happens, I'll be outside that worry.

I think that if it were possible, a lot of companies would hire foreign nationals with relevant experience.

It all depends if these potential employees are worth the time, hassle and expense to hire according to Indonesian national labor laws.

The fact that Indonesia is suffering from an unemployment "problem" should not hold you back. The "problem" is due to either a big mismatch between skills required in Indonesian labor market and that offered through education and training or through an unskilled pool of employees which has been priced out of competition due to minimum wage laws, bureaucracy and excessive red tape.

In other words, if you offer something that the employer can use, at a fair price and are not planning to stay with the same employer for an endless amount of time so that an Indonesian can be taught to perform your job, then you should come here. After all the experiences gained in working in Indonesia should make you a valuable commodity in some overseas work environment.

"I think that if it were possible, a lot of companies would hire foreign nationals with relevant experience."

Maybe, but it ain't going to happen, and that is the way it should be. 

"In other words, if you offer something that the employer can use, at a fair price and are not planning to stay with the same employer for an endless amount of time so that an Indonesian can be taught to perform your job, then you should come here."

That is terrible advice because the simple truth is that the government manpower office will not issue work permits for foreigners seeking jobs in Indonesia that can be filled by the local Indonesian labor force.  The fact that a particular employer here "could use you" is moot. 

If you come here looking for a job with that idea in your head then you should re-think your time in Indonesia as vacation time. 

The idea that the Indonesian labor force is mostly unskilled, under or uneducated is simply not true.   

There are few jobs available these days in Indonesia which can only be filled by foreign employees with specific or unique skills.

Sales, marketing, finance and accounting are not areas where there is a lack of Indonesian expertise and capability. 

Sorry Aman but your prospects for employment in Indonesia, given your background, are slim to none as Pak Fred said.

The worry for Indonesia isn't highly qualified staff (but I agree, Indonesians should come first), it's unskilled labour.

Let's say, a million manual workers came from Bangladesh, what effect would they have on the job market here?
Then add the social unrest this would cause and you have a mess.

You raised some very interesting points, Mas Fred.

If a million workers came from Bangladesh at least the red herring about religious differences cannot be raised in engendering social unrest. The mass of workers - probably in the textile industry - would not notice as 1 million extra workers in a work force the size of West Java's does not make that much of a difference. Competition for jobs would make sure that salaries remain reasonable and that wage gains would be reserved for those with truly superior working kills to market themselves. More textile companies would notice the availability of qualified labor and set up shop - this in itself engendering upward pressures on wages. This has occurred in coastal China and it can occur here if the parties that be wouldn't be so hell bent on slaughtering the goose that lays the golden eggs...

The threat of social unrest, as that engendered by firebrand unions, should be discouraged with extreme ruthlessness.

Dear mr stumpy..i understand what u said.but i got more than 2yr s experience .in saftey field.apart from that iam osha blue card holder in industrial safety..and i would really like to knw the crieterian of exp. To get a job in indonesia