Why is it that most vietnamese i meet are untrustworthy?

Khuyen nguyen :

even you go to US/EU , you also observe the same problem….. we have many types character of human being in different areas and vietnam is also not an exceptional. We have good & bad people all over the world, not only in Việt Nam or some low development countries.

You are newcommer in Việt Nam! and do your own business then you have to control the risk, this is risk management.

I dont need to teach you about that, all your failed  in business that is not due to local people, the reason is  you can not manage  your problem well.

Stop blaming or complain !!!

Sorry to bust your bubble, but both China and Vietnam are infamous globally for being the most corrupt countries when it comes to commerce.  I can tell you every client I have worked for has experienced the corruption in both countries, no exceptions.  Obviously you don't work in import/export because every foreign client I have worked for and there are many, everytime they want to import products into the country, a bribe is expected. For the U.S. based clients, they refuse to pay and many refuse to go back and yes, I have clients that have left merchandise at customs and never sold 1 product and had them exported due to the corruption.  You want to talk about employees, commercial real estate etc.?  No different.  I have a client right now that has a problem with their commercial space and the owner refuses to sign any official documents without a bribe.  In addition, we have a client that is looking to leave China and manufacture in VN.  I advised them of the same issues they would face as China and sure enough, 6 months later, the VN project is dead due to corruption.   

What is sad, these companies would bring thousands of jobs and revenue to VN, but no, the corrupt government officials could careless about the people, they just want their bribes.

With respect to the USA, yes, of course there are bad people just like any country.  However, the level of corruption is nowhere near the corruption in certain Asian countries, not just VN.

colinoscapee :
yamcha :

Are you living off your wife?

It helps to quote who you are referring to.

Oh yeah?  Does that help you?

yamcha :
colinoscapee :
yamcha :

Are you living off your wife?

It helps to quote who you are referring to.

Oh yeah?  Does that help you?

It does if you want to reply to a certain post.

Sorry I can't help you.

yamcha :

Sorry I can't help you.

Are you off your meds.

Your posts make no sense.

then why reply?

Looks like you have nothing better to do than troll.
Best you stick to worrying about your mayor issues, the mattress and motorbike.

You seem to like to talk to me for some reason.

yamcha :

You seem to like to talk to me for some reason.

I like to help the mentally challenged.

The wife deserves a working man.

colinoscapee :

Looks like you have nothing better to do than troll.
Best you stick to worrying about your mayor issues, the mattress and motorbike.

You forgot mosquitoes...

🤣

If anybody is not following this story in the USA, I have posted a link below.  Interesting, a VN family is involved, but they did not release the names.  Looks like what works in VN works in the USA but 1 big difference, in the USA it is illegal and you go to jail. 

"A 2018 suit alleged that a Vietnamese mom paid $1.5 million to a Manhattan college admissions consultant called the Ivy Coach, to help get her kid into a prestigious prep school and Ivy League college."

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-new … story.html

Sadly, corruption held back its development.  Vietnamese do not realize that US companies could be prosecuted for paying bribe when doing business in foreign countries. Vietnam would have difficult to stem out corruption due relationship-base structure operating environment.

vndreamer :

If anybody is not following this story in the USA, I have posted a link below.  Interesting, a VN family is involved, but they did not release the names.  Looks like what works in VN works in the USA but 1 big difference, in the USA it is illegal and you go to jail. 

"A 2018 suit alleged that a Vietnamese mom paid $1.5 million to a Manhattan college admissions consultant called the Ivy Coach, to help get her kid into a prestigious prep school and Ivy League college."

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-new … story.html

Read up a little more....there are MANY non-Vietnamese that were involved in the scam, knowingly of not.  Asian culture defines honesty very differently than the West.  Face plays a big issue in their outcomes, for better or worse.  70-80 %  of VN students prefer cheating on an exam, vs. bringing shame to their family (plus the shit they will hear from their hard working, hard saving parents to no end LOL

vndreamer :

If anybody is not following this story in the USA, I have posted a link below.  Interesting, a VN family is involved, but they did not release the names.  Looks like what works in VN works in the USA but 1 big difference, in the USA it is illegal and you go to jail. 

"A 2018 suit alleged that a Vietnamese mom paid $1.5 million to a Manhattan college admissions consultant called the Ivy Coach, to help get her kid into a prestigious prep school and Ivy League college."

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-new … story.html

I will bet you 2 hao it was the Nguyens :-). 2 Hao VN

You are definitely on to something. Generalizations are rarely fair or accurate, but

- another night at a noodle restaurant. The associate was paying the bill with my wallet. Overcharging (I had done the math). So... an extra 50,000 VND are worth to lose my respect and trust? Mission accomplished!

The same woman texted me that she was sick and I jumped to cover her class (one room rented in some house). Driving home to be on time. Then she cancelled. It happened the following day, too. But the most shocking thing was revealed in an email where she expressed doubt over my ability to control the class.

Nice kids!
----

- an entrepreneur. Clever, connected, good at internet stuff, marketing & having Apple computers & phones. I was in the mamrket for an Ipad Mini and he recommended that I buy one for 1,xxx.000 VND more than the one I had bought.
---

* Conductors on buses.
* A man at my favourite bakery restaurant where I've been a hundred times.
* The clerk at the post office,  short-changing me by 20,000 d
* At the Vietjet counter - 100,000 d. They try and don't feel embarassed. But then, some men feel it'S okay to urinate on the floor, standing a few feet away from an urinal. (Don't ask - - - I've witnessed it and seen the outcome. And don't get me started on "cleaning practices")

Q: Do they need the extra few thousand Dong?

OTOH, I have experienced both kindness and generosity from strangers.

Yup, I teach in Ba Tri as a volunteer and have found they can lie to your face, say they have done something and the truth is they can't be bothered, I'm starting to confront the offenses. It's like they think we don't remember the conversation. While back in Aus I asked my friend to remove and reinstall the cd player in the laptop, Yes was the answer, bo kut, too lazy, it's going to take my reeducation for me to survive

MarkinNam :

Yup, I teach in Ba Tri as a volunteer and have found they can lie to your face, say they have done something and the truth is they can't be bothered, I'm starting to confront the offenses. It's like they think we don't remember the conversation. While back in Aus I asked my friend to remove and reinstall the cd player in the laptop, Yes was the answer, bo kut, too lazy, it's going to take my reeducation for me to survive

The Vietnamese approach to honesty is very different from the West.  Most VN are honest, especially outside of the big cities.  It is way too complex to explain in a forum.  But their beliefs and priorities are vastly different.

OP has not given the effort to understand different cultures.  However, Điếc không sợ súng :-)

GuidoVN :
MarkinNam :

Yup, I teach in Ba Tri as a volunteer and have found they can lie to your face, say they have done something and the truth is they can't be bothered, I'm starting to confront the offenses. It's like they think we don't remember the conversation. While back in Aus I asked my friend to remove and reinstall the cd player in the laptop, Yes was the answer, bo kut, too lazy, it's going to take my reeducation for me to survive

The Vietnamese approach to honesty is very different from the West.  Most VN are honest, especially outside of the big cities.  It is way too complex to explain in a forum.  But their beliefs and priorities are vastly different.

Honesty maybe, but taking responsibility for their actions....not many.

Honest, and being civil is very different. American often honestly express things more in direct manner, do not realize of rudeness and arrogant. Same as lies and untruthful is also different, you can said things untrue (oh, it looks nice, even at an ugly piece of scrap), lies is to deceive to benefit.  So it is all depends what mold you are made from. Believe it or not Vietnam is a diverse regional culture, same as the US, Midwest people is so different than Northeast, same as regional of the Pacific West.

However when you have nothing, motivation of financial gain would blind majority of us.  Vietnam was a dirt poor country, a dry land, suddenly pouring rain, the first thing grew up weed and grass.

Rollingbroak :

Honest, and being civil is very different. American often honestly express things more in direct manner, do not realize of rudeness and arrogant. Same as lies and untruthful is also different, you can said things untrue (oh, it looks nice, even at an ugly piece of scrap), lies is to deceive to benefit.  So it is all depends what mold you are made from. Believe it or not Vietnam is a diverse regional culture, same as the US, Midwest people is so different than Northeast, same as regional of the Pacific West.

However when you have nothing, motivation of financial gain would blind majority of us.  Vietnam was a dirt poor country, a dry land, suddenly pouring rain, the first thing grew up weed and grass.

You trying to tell me about a country that I have lived in for 12 years.

How long have you been living here?

Mong Cau near the chinese border has a casino where only the chinese are allowed in. You’re vetted by a Chinese gangster. Obviously the richer, more corrupt vietnamese are going in too but they keep the general public out so they can’t see what’s going on inside.

It’s a convenient place to cross the border and launder their money. All that cash they crossed the border with was suddenly won in one lucky night in a casino with a cheque to prove it.

I believe there’s similar set ups along the cambodian borders but I was travelling late so forgot which side of the border they were on.

Hearing Westeners bitch about the corruption in Asian countries cracks me up. I'll take occasionally having to pass a few notes to someone over the constant, rampant and  mindboggling government thievery of the US/UK/EU, thanks.

The Vietnamese government may be shooting themselves in the foot with their shortsighted attitude, but at least they aren't royally screwing me over every day of the week by taxing the hell out of everything up to and including oxygen.

Luckily I can live without foreign booze and large motorcycles.  :lol:

vndreamer :

Sorry to bust your bubble, but both China and Vietnam are infamous globally for being the most corrupt countries when it comes to commerce.  I can tell you every client I have worked for has experienced the corruption in both countries, no exceptions.  Obviously you don't work in import/export because every foreign client I have worked for and there are many, everytime they want to import products into the country, a bribe is expected. For the U.S. based clients, they refuse to pay and many refuse to go back and yes, I have clients that have left merchandise at customs and never sold 1 product and had them exported due to the corruption.  You want to talk about employees, commercial real estate etc.?  No different.  I have a client right now that has a problem with their commercial space and the owner refuses to sign any official documents without a bribe.  In addition, we have a client that is looking to leave China and manufacture in VN.  I advised them of the same issues they would face as China and sure enough, 6 months later, the VN project is dead due to corruption.   

What is sad, these companies would bring thousands of jobs and revenue to VN, but no, the corrupt government officials could careless about the people, they just want their bribes.

With respect to the USA, yes, of course there are bad people just like any country.  However, the level of corruption is nowhere near the corruption in certain Asian countries, not just VN.

Actually, according to the Corruption Perceptions Index, there are 60 countries considered worse than Vietnam, and 88 worse than China.  China is tied for 87 and Vietnam is tied for 117.  Denmark is at #1 for least corruption, and the US is at 22.  Maybe your "infamous globally" is actually only your personal perception.  Those countries below Vietnam are from all over the world, and include Russia (tied at 138).

Three times I've had a conductor on a bus give me back 1,000 dong from the 6,000 I gave him because the fare for that bus was only 5,000.  I've several times left my backpack at restaurants and twice the waiter ran out after me to give it back.  All the other times it was left on the seat or brought to the cash register for me to retrieve.  While there are hustlers galore in District 1, the same can be said for many tourist areas in the US. 

One thing I noticed is that if I go to a restaurant  frequented by Vietnamese, I may get the flower or lottery sellers, but I don't get the women wanting to sit with me that happens often at tourist-frequented restaurants. 

Many English-speaking Vietnamese at 23-9 park have warned me to watch my bag or have told me when the bag was unzipped.  Petty theft is the most likely thing to happen, but that happens everywhere in the world.  I expect that there will be more of this in a poorer country, and am not surprised that even the people from well-off families think of foreigners as rich.

Brick23 :

Hearing Westeners bitch about the corruption in Asian countries cracks me up. I'll take occasionally having to pass a few notes to someone over the constant, rampant and  mindboggling government thievery of the US/UK/EU, thanks.

The Vietnamese government may be shooting themselves in the foot with their shortsighted attitude, but at least they aren't royally screwing me over every day of the week by taxing the hell out of everything up to and including oxygen.

Luckily I can live without foreign booze and large motorcycles.  :lol:

You do realise that corruption in VN kills people, are you well informed regarding this subject.

colinoscapee :

You do realise that corruption in VN kills people, are you well informed regarding this subject.

I have no stats to hand on how many people are killed yearly by corruption in Vietnam, but I suspect that if I did, and contrasted them to similar stats pertaining to, say, the Israeli/US war and banking machine, the former would be the lesser of two evils by many orders of magnitude.

paulmsn :
vndreamer :

Sorry to bust your bubble, but both China and Vietnam are infamous globally for being the most corrupt countries when it comes to commerce.  I can tell you every client I have worked for has experienced the corruption in both countries, no exceptions.  Obviously you don't work in import/export because every foreign client I have worked for and there are many, everytime they want to import products into the country, a bribe is expected. For the U.S. based clients, they refuse to pay and many refuse to go back and yes, I have clients that have left merchandise at customs and never sold 1 product and had them exported due to the corruption.  You want to talk about employees, commercial real estate etc.?  No different.  I have a client right now that has a problem with their commercial space and the owner refuses to sign any official documents without a bribe.  In addition, we have a client that is looking to leave China and manufacture in VN.  I advised them of the same issues they would face as China and sure enough, 6 months later, the VN project is dead due to corruption.   

What is sad, these companies would bring thousands of jobs and revenue to VN, but no, the corrupt government officials could careless about the people, they just want their bribes.

With respect to the USA, yes, of course there are bad people just like any country.  However, the level of corruption is nowhere near the corruption in certain Asian countries, not just VN.

Actually, according to the Corruption Perceptions Index, there are 60 countries considered worse than Vietnam, and 88 worse than China.  China is tied for 87 and Vietnam is tied for 117.  Denmark is at #1 for least corruption, and the US is at 22.  Maybe your "infamous globally" is actually only your personal perception.  Those countries below Vietnam are from all over the world, and include Russia (tied at 138).

Read the report did you?  Apparently not.  in addition, I never said China and VN are unique in corruption.  But if you want to justify corruption by making a comparison to other countries that are as corrupt and more, just less well known because they are not engaged with first world western countries as much, go ahead and stick your head in the sand.  The report you cited confirms what most people dealing in international business know, thanks for the confirmation.

Brick23 :
colinoscapee :

You do realise that corruption in VN kills people, are you well informed regarding this subject.

I have no stats to hand on how many people are killed yearly by corruption in Vietnam, but I suspect that if I did, and contrasted them to similar stats pertaining to, say, the Israeli/US war and banking machine, the former would be the lesser of two evils by many orders of magnitude.

Just from what you have written it shows you know very little about daily life in Vietnam.

Now you are quoting war as corruption, lordy, please save me.

colinoscapee :
Brick23 :
colinoscapee :

You do realise that corruption in VN kills people, are you well informed regarding this subject.

I have no stats to hand on how many people are killed yearly by corruption in Vietnam, but I suspect that if I did, and contrasted them to similar stats pertaining to, say, the Israeli/US war and banking machine, the former would be the lesser of two evils by many orders of magnitude.

Just from what you have written it shows you know very little about daily life in Vietnam.

Now you are quoting war as corruption, lordy, please save me.

It's true I'm a newbie to Vietnam, only been here 3 months, but how things get done here doesn't strike me as much different than how things get done in most of the places I've travelled to in the last 30 years. But maybe I have just been lucky, or walking around with my eyes closed.  :)

As to me calling the overseas adventures of a certain Western nation in particular, "corrupt," if you have arguments as to why this characterisation is flawed, please present them. Never ending death for the further enrichment of an already wealthy minority, at the taxpayers not only immediate but consequential expense, seems like an apt use of the word to me.

Brick23 :
colinoscapee :
Brick23 :

I have no stats to hand on how many people are killed yearly by corruption in Vietnam, but I suspect that if I did, and contrasted them to similar stats pertaining to, say, the Israeli/US war and banking machine, the former would be the lesser of two evils by many orders of magnitude.

Just from what you have written it shows you know very little about daily life in Vietnam.

Now you are quoting war as corruption, lordy, please save me.

It's true I'm a newbie to Vietnam, only been here 3 months, but how things get done here doesn't strike me as much different than how things get done in most of the places I've travelled to in the last 30 years. But maybe I have just been lucky, or walking around with my eyes closed.  :)

As to me calling the overseas adventures of a certain Western nation in particular, "corrupt," if you have arguments as to why this characterisation is flawed, please present them. Never ending death for the further enrichment of an already wealthy minority, at the taxpayers not only immediate but consequential expense, seems like an apt use of the word to me.

Not sure you example is relevant in relation to corruption within VN. Your example is more to do with an external situation, not corruption within that certain country you are referring to.

Travelling to and living in a country are two very different situatiions. Get back to me after 5 years of living here.

colinoscapee :
GuidoVN :
MarkinNam :

Yup, I teach in Ba Tri as a volunteer and have found they can lie to your face, say they have done something and the truth is they can't be bothered, I'm starting to confront the offenses. It's like they think we don't remember the conversation. While back in Aus I asked my friend to remove and reinstall the cd player in the laptop, Yes was the answer, bo kut, too lazy, it's going to take my reeducation for me to survive

The Vietnamese approach to honesty is very different from the West.  Most VN are honest, especially outside of the big cities.  It is way too complex to explain in a forum.  But their beliefs and priorities are vastly different.

Honesty maybe, but taking responsibility for their actions....not many.

I'll agree with you on that point; VN are masters at deflection.  When something has gone wrong, no one is willing to step up and admit the error, heaven forbid someone sticks their neck out to help.  That is a big part of the VN mentality to not help others in an accident.  There is a chance that the good Samaritan will end up being blamed for everything, and end up paying the medical bills.

GuidoVN :
colinoscapee :
GuidoVN :


The Vietnamese approach to honesty is very different from the West.  Most VN are honest, especially outside of the big cities.  It is way too complex to explain in a forum.  But their beliefs and priorities are vastly different.

Honesty maybe, but taking responsibility for their actions....not many.

I'll agree with you on that point; VN are masters at deflection.  When something has gone wrong, no one is willing to step up and admit the error, heaven forbid someone sticks their neck out to help.  That is a big part of the VN mentality to not help others in an accident.  There is a chance that the good Samaritan will end up being blamed for everything, and end up paying the medical bills.

What I have more trouble with is the fact VN cannot defend themselves against criminals.  I have talked at length about this with my wife and I still cannot understand how the communist prosecute and jail innocent people who are attacked by criminals, defend themselves and if the criminal dies or severely injured, the innocent person is arrested, prosecuted and jailed while the criminal goes free.   So I asked my wife, "what is an innocent person to do?".  She said basically let them steal everything or run away, but do not fight back because if you hurt them, your going to jail.

vndreamer :

What I have more trouble with is the fact VN cannot defend themselves against criminals.  I have talked at length about this with my wife and I still cannot understand how the communist prosecute and jail innocent people who are attacked by criminals, defend themselves and if the criminal dies or severely injured, the innocent person is arrested, prosecuted and jailed while the criminal goes free.   So I asked my wife, "what is an innocent person to do?".  She said basically let them steal everything or run away, but do not fight back because if you hurt them, your going to jail.

Sounds exactly like the UK. You can end up in jail for hurting a mugger or burglar's feelings, much less giving them a proper tutelary beating.

Have to say I'm surprised by this, I assumed the generally pragmatic Vietnamese would deal with with shitbags in summary fashion.

vndreamer,

Your reaction to my post seems extreme.

No, facts.  Your post gives the impression of a falsehood.  I don't need to debate facts.  You have a right to your opinion.

Your claim "both China and Vietnam are infamous globally for being the most corrupt countries when it comes to commerce" is an opinion not backed by evidence.  It is not fact  unless you prove it with evidence, and you have not not.

Can someone find for all us forieners, a web site explaining Vietnamese culture regarding, Truth, honesty, the true costs of loosing face in an international community??

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