Employment contract

drew16 wrote:

I'm sick of sand and 40+ deg temps. Just applied for a job in Papa working the same industry and position I am now. What percentage of a cut in wages should I expect? I currently live in Dubai the cost of living is quite high but so are the wages. Just thinking ahead of contract negotiations if I make it that far.

thanks

Case of supply and demand.  What industry?

Aviation

drew16 wrote:

Aviation

Pilot, mechanic, avionics, ATC ?

Papa is a military airfield and therefore relatively specialised and might command a premium.

The main issue for working in Hungary when coming from somewhere else are the taxes.  They are horribly high. On the other hand, if you are an EU citizen then you are not tied to one employer, unlike Dubai. So it really depends on what one is comparing, for example, in Dubai, your healthcare would be provided by your employer, but in Hungary, you'd be in the state system. Same with accomodation. So it's not like for like. Somethings you will win on, other things you will lose on.

Using per diem rates from the US government and the cost of living is about 1/2 in Hungary compared to Dubai. I also looked at the COLA (Cost of Living Adjustments) and these concur.

So $100 in Dubai is $50 in Papa.

On the other hand, get what you can. I'd work on 70% to be sure.

Actually, I'm a Yank. My research shows Hungary's cost of living is about 20% less than Dubai when the 16% tax I will have to pay now is figured in I'll have to make about the same as I am now to make it worthwhile to move.

Fluff, noticed you are a mountain biker How are the trails?

drew16 wrote:

Actually, I'm a Yank. My research shows Hungary's cost of living is about 20% less than Dubai when the 16% tax I will have to pay now is figured in I'll have to make about the same as I am now to make it worthwhile to move.

Fluff, noticed you are a mountain biker How are the trails?

The COLA for military CONUS is indeed about 20% but there's a lot of other things you might get stuck with unexpectedly. If you live on base, much would be paid for, but out in the rest of Hungary, in private, then there's higher prices like energy, dental care, vehicles etc and the horrible 27% VAT. Basically prices are Euro-normal in most respects. Fuel costs are extremely high compared to UAE.

I'm not military and not a Yank but I do look at these things when I'm doing project work and have to estimate costs. There is so little information out there, I tend to use US government sources as these tend to be well researched and updated.

Re: biking. I don't know about Papa but there's a large amount of mountain biking trails all over Hungary. You can buy maps in book shops showing all the trails. Around Budapest, it's pretty good, especially in Buda. One of the top cycling trails is to go around Lake Balaton - about 220km and can be done in 3 days if you take it easy. Not done it myself yet but thinking about it.

BTW, it gets hot in Hungary - low 30s deg C at the moment, hotter in the sun. Highest I've seen it is about 40 C. In winter, it can be -10 deg C easily with snow. January is miserable, cold, windy and long nights. Seems to go on forever. However, on good days, brilliant blue skies even if cold and that can cheer one up.

fluffy2560 wrote:

it gets hot in Hungary - low 30s deg C at the moment, hotter in the sun.

Interesting perspective. I do not personally define low 30s°C (<=91°F) as hot. Of course, I grew up in a South West US desert areas myself where it was usually above 35°C (95°C) all summer.

I was in Dubai on Sunday on the airport tarmac waiting to board a plane: now that was hot.

Drew, also be aware there is no Social Security agreement between the US and Hungary. Contact your employer if you have to pay SS in both countries or if they have other arrangements (if you are military, then this issues does not apply).

I'm not in the military, My CV is still under consideration the job doesn't close out for a few days just hope I get an interview. Might actually have to get a tax guy

Klsallee I hear ya it was 38 @ 6am on the way to work today on the way home it was 43. Lived in PHX for five years prior to Dubai just getting sick of only having two seasons a year time for a change.

Damn, I jut lost my text, so here is the essence:

https://www.expat.com/forum/316-22-cost … ngary.html
Of course, Pápa should be cheaper than Budapest.

Calculating your net(Nettó) salary from your gross(Bruttó) can be done on the internet.
Apart from the 16% tax,  state healthcare costs are deducted, too.
http://www.hrportal.hu/index.phtml?page=berkalkulator

State healthcare is good and essential in some cases, but in many cases you want to use private doctors if you can afford - I still don't know if there are private insurances allowing you to access that infrastructure.

drew16 wrote:

just getting sick of only having two seasons a year time for a change.

Hungary is more mid-continental climate/weather, so more similar to Kansas City or Denver with all the four seasons. Papa is sort of like living in Missouri/Ohio, fairly flattish rolling farm country. But with cosmopolitan centers not too far way. In a 45-60 minute drive (car or bus) you can be in Györ, and from Györ there are very nice trains to Vienna or Budapest. From Györ to Vienna on a direct train takes about 90 minutes.

I know Papa is in the sticks and I will need a vehicle. I'm reading registering a car is crazy expensive. I have two vehicles now, a 2012 GMC full size pickup US spec sitting in storage in AZ the other is a 2013 Jeep Wrangler GCC spec that is here in Dubai with me. Which would be better to bring? The truck actually gets better gas mileage but its big and would not be very good in Europe. I'm concerned about the bureaucracy of shipping a vehicle from the middle east. If I decide I need a different car how common are 2" hitch receivers; I would need one for a bike rack.

I have a 5cm hitch which is pretty standard, and almost the identical diameter to 2 inch hitch. So I don't think there should be any problems.

Have no experience importing a car from the US. I sold my Jeep Cherokee when I moved to Europe.

From what I have experienced trying to "import" a Swiss car to Hungary is emission standards are scrutinized. And differences between US and Europe I think will be an important issue when importing. And Hungary is even worse. When we moved from Switzerland the entire process of importing our Swiss car into the EU, and into Hungary in particular, was adding up to such a problem that we just ended up selling our Swiss car and bought a new one in Hungary.

Jeep does sell in Hungary, so you can find parts and service (but you may need to drive a bit for either). Parts and service for a GMC full size pickup I would think would be more difficult to find. Having a 4x4 is a good idea if you plan to live a bit out of town as not all country roads are routinely plowed in the winter and even if they are they can be icy and slick. And there are also a lot of dirt roads in Hungary.

Trains are "okay" in Hungary (their big failing is sometimes having many connections for some simple trips), but many trains do allow you to take your bike on board. So not difficult to get to some mountain biking location without a car.

klsallee wrote:

From what I have experienced trying to "import" a Swiss car to Hungary is emission standards are scrutinized. And differences between US and Europe I think will be an important issue when importing. And Hungary is even worse. When we moved from Switzerland the entire process of importing our Swiss car into the EU, and into Hungary in particular, was adding up to such a problem that we just ended up selling our Swiss car and bought a new one in Hungary.

I'm guessing the after market exhaust,intake,bumpers,2.5" lift,and larger wheels and tires I put on the Jeep will be an issue then?

How do they view window tint? Added 30%

drew16 wrote:

I'm guessing the after market exhaust,intake,bumpers,2.5" lift,and larger wheels and tires I put on the Jeep will be an issue then?

How do they view window tint? Added 30%

I have some experience of using NA (North American) cars in the EU (mainly into the UK). None of those things should be be a problem. There's mutual recognition on US car parts between the EU and the USA so your customisations are not a large problem.  The window tint is a problem in some countries (Serbia is one) but the reality is that no-one ever stopped me about it. Fuel consumption of US cars is too high making it uneconomic to import large engine vehicles. You can convert to LPG but this also has problems and costs.

The biggest problem you have is getting a CoC - Certificate of Conformity - which is EU speak for vehicle type recognition. What you could do is ask the manufacturer if they can issue one for your vehicle. Off the top of my head, the technical issues would be:

1. CoC - if no CoC, vehicle will be inspected as a one-off (could be pricey)
2. Use of leaded fuel (big no-no, the nozzles on the fuel pumps are sized accordingly - same problem with Japanese imports)
3. Side indicators (legal requirement in EU - easy to fix)
4. Rear fog light (can be mounted in centre)
5. Colour of indicators/turn signals (bulbs can be orange or the glass can be orange)
6. Speedometer (some US cars will be marked in mph and should have kmh too)
7. Headlights (usually OK as mutual recognition but pattern might be wrong, should be checked)
8. Tyres - should be "E" marked (e.g. compliant to European standards)
9. Determining the EURO standard

The tax on the car will depend on a lot of things like engine size, fuel and date of manufacture and the Euro standard. The Euro standard depends on the type of engine control system, the use of a catalytic convertor and the age of the vehicle.  Generally anything after 1994 (?) and built to EU standards would be Euro 3. The latest one is Euro 4 with some cars starting to appear recently with Euro 5. To get the car into circulation, it will need to pass an emissions test.

For fuel, nearly all NA petrol (gasoline) engines can use E85 which is a blend of ethanol and petrol being marked by Agip here in Hungary. The filling station has a big fat book where you can check if your car can take E85. It's a bit cheaper.

TBH, it's probably easier to sell your NA cars and get a diesel vehicle to EU standards.

Regarding Jeep parts, there's a dealership here in Budapest BUT it's incredibly pricey. You can get most major parts on Ebay in Germany and have them shipped (costs money!). There's a lucky break that in China, some Jeeps are manufactured under license and most spare parts on German Ebay are Chinese imports and not original parts. It is also possible to get parts from auto breakers.  There is a major problem with Jeeps in Europe - corrosion (salt used in winter) and much higher speeds on highways. Jeeps were not meant to be driven at 160 km/h on German autobahns. The number of failures of axles was quite high. If you limit your speed, it'll be OK. If your car is quite new, get it rust proofed before bringing it to Europe.

Regarding your towing/mounting requirement, we do not use these designs in Europe although I've seen them around. We use tow balls. You can easily get a bike rack to fit on the tow ball or a rack to fit on the rear of your vehicle. Be aware that there's a recent EU requirement for proper lighting sockets on vehicles with towing balls. These are checked in the vehicle tests.