Do i move to the phil, or is it easier to get my wife out to australia

rod iddles wrote:

im undecided what to do,try to get my Filipino wife to Australia
or I cum to Davao city to live with her .
can somebody there advise me which of the 2 is easier
and cheaper.       ....cheers Rod, from down under..

Go to Davao..Much cheaper to live there and if it dont work out you can always apply for her visa to go back to Australia with you which will be much easier and more efficient from here..

thanx for u r advise I have only spent 3 wks in Davao
can u tell me what is the average price to rent a 3br.house in Davao hehehe with hot and cold water for showers,...

Dear Aussie friend,dont worry it will be much easier and cheaper in Davao,rent can be cheap or expensive depending on your life style,anywhere from 100usd to 2000usd,it can be simple or it can be a mansion,its all up to your liking,im sure you can find other aussies either in Davao or Dumaquete,but plenty of other foriegners,that can give you honest advice.Dont fear and go and explore and enjoy life to its fullest,good luck,form your P.R./American friend.

rod
For cost of living check out this website www.numbeo.com a  bit difficult to navigate through the first time but gives you a lot of info.

Just remember that living may be cheap but you need to consider medical insurance cover, visa costs etc. 
As far as I am aware,if you have an Oz pension and you are out of the country for more than 6 months the Govt can cancel it so you need to consider this in your expenses.

Getting a visa for her to live in Oz is time consuming and costly too.

thank you American friend

thank you  they don't make it easy for you do they

Rod
I faced the same problem and decided to live here, u would know
how expensive Auss is getting, living in Provences is better
and cheaper, there are plenty expats to have a beer with, we even
have a bet on AFL at our local(cause it the only sport we can get live)the hassles of getting ur missus permenent into Auss
r huge
Pete

thanx pete im starting to realize now how expensive its going to be,  so I will look into the cost of me going there ,at least she has work there ,in the real estate business so that's one thing I wont need to worry over..... cheers  Rod

it will be a smart thing for you to invest with her in real estate,as this will provide a extra income for sure,if you know how to budget your money and have a simple lifestyle,you really dont need that much money,i would say anywhere from 700-1000usd is enough to live on and that includes all the basic necesities but thats only in the provinces.Im hoping to go there sometime next year to explore where i will settle.I plan to visit some of the guys and gals from this site,im very confidant this will be one of the best decisions of my life.im hoping to have a few selected friends from different countries,Germans,Aussies,Canadians,etc,im pertty much sure Visayas is my best option.Good luck and lots of happiness.

thanx very much I hope to meet u there sometime

ok no problem,just go and explore,best if you have someone trustworthy

Ron,

I'm sort of on the [ Universal Tenet ] -> [UT], kick as of late. So here goes another one, [UT]-> "look before you leap"... With investments, (never listen to your heart)! Cold, rock-hard-analytical-thinking, is the only way forward.

[UT]-> Fools Rush In, Where Angels Fear To Tread.

Trust your (brain) only, keep your heart and emotions out of it completely... Trust only the left side, the analytical hemisphere, of your brain.

Asian culture is deceptively (deep) rarely are things the way they seem to Westerner's.

Godspeed, my brother as you go "warily" along your way.

Yes, invest, buy lots and lots of land!

Yeah Right!!!

yeah  not sure about the whole investing thing   
ive been here 5 years   havent bought a thing yet  but in that 5 years  i have been a bit of a gypsy    forever moving...
there has been a bit of a real estate bubble in the philippines the last few years   not sure wether or not that will go down now that us investors are starting to once again invest back home   but that is something to consider.

With your pension  it depends on what pension u are on   but  now these days   u can apply for a component called poratability    if u are on dsp   u can apply for this  but i will warn u   if u dont succeed and they decide u are not at the right quota   u could lose your pension.

I live on around 1200  dollar a month here and i live in cebu  by my partner and i live quiet cheap      we are realizing we can live somewhat cheaper in the province so are moving  at the end of the month   

before  u consider moving at all  or investing with anyone   
know the woman u love... there are a lot of people here  with hard luck stories   many  live on  alot less then u would think  and are not happy about it   from buying with their wives and finding out the hard way  that we  have no rights here   
ie   u could lose everything if  have picked the wrong woman.
Davao  is very safe   but  do not travel around mindinao to chap happy    as   it is the kidnapping capital of the phils

GREAT ADVICE!!!!

Thatawesomeguy wrote:

yeah  not sure about the whole investing thing   
ive been here 5 years   havent bought a thing yet  but in that 5 years  i have been a bit of a gypsy    forever moving...
there has been a bit of a real estate bubble in the philippines the last few years   not sure wether or not that will go down now that us investors are starting to once again invest back home   but that is something to consider.

With your pension  it depends on what pension u are on   but  now these days   u can apply for a component called poratability    if u are on dsp   u can apply for this  but i will warn u   if u dont succeed and they decide u are not at the right quota   u could lose your pension.

I live on around 1200  dollar a month here and i live in cebu  by my partner and i live quiet cheap      we are realizing we can live somewhat cheaper in the province so are moving  at the end of the month   on 1200 a month there's not much u can buy

before  u consider moving at all  or investing with anyone   
know the woman u love... there are a lot of people here  with hard luck stories   many  live on  alot less then u would think  and are not happy about it   from buying with their wives and finding out the hard way  that we  have no rights here   
ie   u could lose everything if  have picked the wrong woman.
Davao  is very safe   but  do not travel around mindinao to chap happy    as   it is the kidnapping capital of the phils

on 1200 a month there isnt much u can buy..LOL

ha  its not that bad  my rent is 9000 a month
food is about 5000 a month ( i cook my own food)
my basic power water  is about 4000 a month  and my cable and internet is about 5000   so all my basic needs are covered for 600 bucks a month

i dont drink   so  i save a fair bit of cash  and my gf makes me catch jeeps when we can..  that leaves us 15000 a month for whatever it is we are doing that month    actually a bit more  but  i keep that for emergency's 
i dont live large here   and i like to keep a low profile.
it all depends on your lifestyle   me and gema    we have alot of fun   we just  dont spend money like a westerner    a lot of great things to do here  on the cheap     just got to get your mind around changing your way of life

sounds good to me

Touch'e...But how much land can you buy or other big ticket items..That was my point...Actually I live about the same...10K for 3 bed, 3 bath right on the water (cable TV included), only 500 month for water, 3K month for power(little need for Air). I spend much more for food(we cook quality food)..9 to 12K(3 person), Gas 3K, auto/health insurance 600, entertainment/restaurant, 2 to 3K, Misc. 2K for a total of about 32K($750)average..Put away 6K for emergency funds..Then there is that occasional annual expense of a RT ticket to the US, 3 to $4000...

So if income is 1200 mo. how long would I have to save to buy land, house, motorbike, etc...The rest of my life and then some..Only in my dreams..So if you have a much younger wife and or children, what is their legacy after you're gone..A few bucks in the bank..LOL

That is why I am looking to buy land for her future so she will have something to show for all her years with me..However, I am in no rush; waiting to buy where the best appreciable bargains are on or near the water..

great thank you , I don't have the funds to buy land so I will only have my age pension and what ever the wife earns , but there are still 4 children to put through school so its not going to be too rosey I think

not rosey   at all mate      i do buy quality food  but i shop at the markets alot  and  we dont really eat that much meat  and that   im actually a chef by trade  so   we tend to make alot of our own sauces and stocks     i actually have a fair bit of cash in the bank    and only feed for 2   plus our dog
I found using filipino vegtables  in place of the ones i would buy at home keeps costs down    then again  we do grow a few of our own vegtables and we are about to move to the province where i will also have a few chickens and two pigs 
it all depends on your life style   my wife and I are quiet young   i am 35   she is early 20s   so  we have a lil more time to take it slow  so to speak

lol also  i am an aussie  so my return ticket back to oz  is only about 200  bucks per person  1 way   in saying  big ticket items    we actually own all of our own stuff  and its all brand new  ( we finally went and rented an unfurnished house  has taken us a year  to get all we want  but  its better for us this way)
My partner has just started her own business   she makes about 5000 a month from this at the momment( all her own doing  lol  love my  girl  she is very proactive)
But  if u have a family that always have their hands out   yeah  it makes it hard
I would say  if  u dont have atleast 20 thousand dollars  in your bank  in case of emergencys    then u should try and do so     
if u get sick here  even if u have insurance    u need to pay up front  and that
can and will be costly if it is anything major    so if u do have major health issues   this is not the country for u
if i was going to retire  i would in oz  not here

rod iddles wrote:

great thank you , I don't have the funds to buy land so I will only have my age pension and what ever the wife earns , but there are still 4 children to put through school so its not going to be too rosey I think

Wow!! 4 children,how old is your wife and children..You definitely have alot to consider for their future..Maybe I can help, give me your email address and I will share info with you..

my wife is 52yrs the kids are 17,16,14,13.
she is 20yrs my jnr,
thanx very much  my email is   [email protected]
my name is Rod

Thatawesomeguy wrote:

not rosey   at all mate      i do buy quality food  but i shop at the markets alot  and  we dont really eat that much meat  and that   im actually a chef by trade  so   we tend to make alot of our own sauces and stocks     i actually have a fair bit of cash in the bank    and only feed for 2   plus our dog
I found using filipino vegtables  in place of the ones i would buy at home keeps costs down    then again  we do grow a few of our own vegtables and we are about to move to the province where i will also have a few chickens and two pigs 
it all depends on your life style   my wife and I are quiet young   i am 35   she is early 20s   so  we have a lil more time to take it slow  so to speak

lol also  i am an aussie  so my return ticket back to oz  is only about 200  bucks per person  1 way   in saying  big ticket items    we actually own all of our own stuff  and its all brand new  ( we finally went and rented an unfurnished house  has taken us a year  to get all we want  but  its better for us this way)
My partner has just started her own business   she makes about 5000 a month from this at the momment( all her own doing  lol  love my  girl  she is very proactive)
But  if u have a family that always have their hands out   yeah  it makes it hard
I would say  if  u dont have atleast 20 thousand dollars  in your bank  in case of emergencys    then u should try and do so     
if u get sick here  even if u have insurance    u need to pay up front  and that
can and will be costly if it is anything major    so if u do have major health issues   this is not the country for u
if i was going to retire  i would in oz  not here

So your RT ticket to OZ is $800 but you have expenses while there..My trip to USA includes 1 month of expenses which are much higher than the PI..I have been to OZ and it is also very expensive to live and retire there so you would probably have near $1000 expense while there with a total of $2000..

You mention you are 35..How is it you can live here?? How do you make you monthly stipend??..You cant live on the 5K your wife makes...And how in the world would you ever be able to retire in OZ...LOL...It is twice as expensive to retire there..As long as rodz health is relatively good and he is near a decent hospital in Davao, it is my opinion he would be much better off here and possibly pick up some cheap land with the prospects of development in the future for his wife and children

where there is a will  there is a way.

I do ok    the 5k  my wife earns is her money  i dont touch that

i have lived here for 5 years  so i must be somewhat  be able to support myself   
I was just saying  if he does have health concerns   staying in oz  is for him    we have free medical back in oz mate    and  when i go home to oz  i stay with family
lol  i understand  where u are comming from and i am not trying to knock your info mate   i agree with u    and u are honest with all your posts here 
I am lucky at my age  to be doing what i want here   but  that is as i said  luck.
While i do agree picking up land is a good option   i think chilling back for a year or two  and getting the lay of the land is somewhat a bit more of a better goal

remember when we first came here to live and the hurdles we had to get buy here to adapt?

at the momment there is also a very large property bubble  and from all the signs in the market( developers offering 5 to 10% signage bonus's     that is usally the sign of a slowing down on a property bubble.

Just chill Rod   relax   make sure u have all your shots and a med check up before comming here    and  i know what it is like to live on the pension in oz     u will have a much better budget  here   even with the wife and kids

try to live in davao and make a lit business u can build house if u want coz ur wife is a filipina

ok thanks darl  yes Davao is where I would be living

Ron,

You must carry your watermelons, in a wheelbarrow, they are much bigger than mine! With this piece of history and future, I feel intimidated to offer any advice, on any matter. It would seem you eat a lion for breakfast, a tiger for lunch and a grizzly bear for dinner.

You are one of the "Brave Hearts" of this world. I wish you the best that resolve and happiness can bring.

Always keep the faith,

Godspeed my brother.

Actually your money can go far if you will live here in The Philipines.. cost of living is cheap and bearable.

Anaheim wrote:

Actually your money can go far if you will live here in The Philipines.. cost of living is cheap and bearable.

Cost of living cheap?   4% increase every year of all basic needs...
5 years ago  rice was 18 peso a kilo   now  its 40 peso a kilo.

Crime on the rise do to a larger and larger gap in the haves and the have nots.

Come and stay here for 6 months,  a year   try it out first before deciding to move here... please.
Do not put all your eggs into one basket.
and remember  her line  "cheap and bearable"
compared to what>?

i love this country and i love my partner   but  it is what it is mate   dont think it is something that it is not.

Bearable   lol   dont u think that is an interesting statement...

Thatawesomeguy wrote:

Anaheim wrote:

Actually your money can go far if you will live here in The Philipines.. cost of living is cheap and bearable.

Cost of living cheap?   4% increase every year of all basic needs...
5 years ago  rice was 18 peso a kilo   now  its 40 peso a kilo.

Crime on the rise do to a larger and larger gap in the haves and the have nots.

Come and stay here for 6 months,  a year   try it out first before deciding to move here... please.
Do not put all your eggs into one basket.
and remember  her line  "cheap and bearable"
compared to what>?

i love this country and i love my partner   but  it is what it is mate   dont think it is something that it is not.

Bearable   lol   dont u think that is an interesting statement...

alright let me elaborate my previous message..

But before that no one is interetsed to know if you love your partner or not..no need to mention that. lol

Am talking about the cost of living here in The Philipines..which is really cheaper or maybe better to use the word "affordable" compare to other countries like Australia. but ofcourse it varies to your lifestyle. If you're the kind of a person who wanted to live the life that he/she can't afford then it's a different story. Food an dclothings are cheap. A regular individual spends around 7k php or maybe less than that every month for food alone.Food and groceries are not expensive to purchase in the Philippines.If you are prepared to eat local foods then your food and groceries will be quite cheap. Even if you allow for a fixture of western style foods the cost will not be enormous compared with what you would pay back home.Clothes can be considerably cheap as well it depends upon the person. so let's say 25,000php a month budget is enough for you to survive and live here in The Philippines.

Not really trying to be silly but you have to understand that foreigner's money can go far in The Philippines since his dollars will be multiplied...

And to sum up everything ,
The cost of living in the Philippines is considerably cheaper than in western countries. How frugally you want to live is entirely up to you, as the options are many.

well  i am speaking as an expat ( ie  forum is called Expat.com) that comes from a western country and lives here ( for a quiet a long time) in the philippines.
Im not talking about a view from a filipino that lives here all her life and does not understand what an expat is looking for or talking about.
7000 peso a month for food for an indvidual is quiet high being that the average monthly wage here is less then that.
Fact   foreigner needs to live somewhere somewhat secure.... reasoning   well a lot of crime of theft and robbery happens to us as some members of this country think we fart money
Fact average cheap clothing here is for skinny small people... reasoning   I know i shop here for me.
Fact food budget for foriegners will be higher then filipino...
reasoning   we like good produce...
Fact travel and other basic living expense will cost a foreinger more.. reasoning   one price for u  one price for us mentality of the phils..  also even though i catch jeepneys and public transport    for a person new to a town or city   taxi's are more often then not an easier and safer option.
Unless  u have lived in another country  and are not from this country   and then have lived here as an expat  i think u should probably reconsider giving advice on this topic.
U will need atleast 50 thousand peso's a month here to live 
minium of 80 thousand if u want to live in manila
davao  u can get away with around 50 thousand   but keeping in mind u will probably be travelling and spending more than u usually would in the first year or two here  while u get the lay of the land.
U seem like a lovely girl anahiem   and the reason i said i loved my gf   was a statement as i said first i loved this country  then also my partner  before  i then pointed out some of the issues  an Expat would have to learn to deal with here when and if he decided to live here( ie so people that are locals did not get offended and say something like " if u dont like here  then why dont u go home"   get my meaning?

Things that expats take for granted as being cheap   like broccoli and milk and bread are a lot more expensive here  also pasta is also....  remembering these are western staple foods   not unlike rice is here.   It is a hell of a lot more humid here  so u will find most Expats use a hell of a lot more electricity here then  u would for running aircon.
Medical treatment will be higher here for those from commonwealth nations where we have free medical 
The list can go on and on     the question the OP asked is  can i live on the philippines on my old age pension    which the answer is yes       can u live like a king   the answer is no...  will your life style be somewhat better than oz   yes yes yes    with a wife and 4 kids   no no no....     

Should he come over here with no additional money and just reply on his pension    A big bloody no....
Unless u have lived  as an expat in australia and know the cost of living there compared to here   then I can not see  how u can even give advice on this subject     of course a filipino would say  we have big money     it is many times  more
That is true somewhat   but  also unrealistic comparatively speaking to two different cultures and countries and standards of living       take care and god bless      I am always here to help  anyone that needs a question to be asked    i will be blunt and straight to the point    but i will also be honest and realistic   I actually live on a lot less then all my expat buddies here in the phils     but also  i adopted this culture as my own  and very simplistic needs and wants    my life and lifestyle is not for everyone that is an expat   actually  most of my mates shake their heads in disbelief   
but at the end of the day  whatever floats your boat...

anyone   and i do mean anyone that is considering retiring here in the philippines and has only spent a few weeks here should live here for 6 months first   before making that life changing decision.
Also any expat  that has decided to live here  and does not have an exit plan  in case things go bad    should really perhaps reconsider how their brain works and   maybe study a little bit of history regarding south east asia

Thatawesomeguy wrote:

ha  its not that bad  my rent is 9000 a month
food is about 5000 a month ( i cook my own food)
my basic power water  is about 4000 a month  and my cable and internet is about 5000   so all my basic needs are covered for 600 bucks a month

i dont drink   so  i save a fair bit of cash  and my gf makes me catch jeeps when we can..  that leaves us 15000 a month for whatever it is we are doing that month    actually a bit more  but  i keep that for emergency's 
i dont live large here   and i like to keep a low profile.
it all depends on your lifestyle   me and gema    we have alot of fun   we just  dont spend money like a westerner    a lot of great things to do here  on the cheap     just got to get your mind around changing your way of life

From your earlier quotes to expats and the quote stating you live off of $1200 month; then how is it your basic needs is only $600 a month..Your statement in this quote states you have 15000 left over for whatever you fancy but by my calculations you would have at least 25000 left over...That is more than your basic needs..You are full of contradictions in much of the advice you are giving to expats...You just told Anaheim you must have a minimum of 50,000 and then some to survive in the nation but at the same time you are telling me you do it on 25,000 month... WHICH IS IT??...

Another inconsistency is your quoting stats with no substantial backing...Example: The average monthly income of locals is near 10,000 not less than 7,000 as you say and those whom work for less than that pool their funds with the rest of the family to make ends meet...However, it is true there are people here working for less than 50 php a day but more likely than not they live in extreme rural areas and live off the fat of the land... Hell, beggars can make over 7,000 a month some of which live quite a good life...You also complained about the inflation and how rice and other staples have doubled...In some countries it is much worse..Even in the USA I watched eggs alone go from $.69 dozen to $2.20 dozen in less than two years...However, I do agree with you costs of some foods here are very expensive...

If you're going to keep giving advice at least be consistent and research your facts before you type...

Lastly, as I had told you on the "looking for business" blog...where you had stated to the chap looking to do textiles in this country and where you had told him you are looking to do exactly the same business..After, the long answer to Anaheim and many of your other blogs of advice; once again I say; how in the hell are you ever going to jump start a business or even get the blue prints off the ground wasting your time with criticizing all the other expats who are only looking for solid FACTUAL ADVICE OR trying to truly help others...YOU NEVER DID STATE HOW YOU MAKE YOUR INCOME AT THE AGE OF 35...I must assume you receive a monthly stipend from back home because there is no way you can make 1200 month here unless you are doing it off an internet site...Is that why you are playing the bit of a gypsy moving from place to place..IF and WHEN, that's a big if, you ever get a business off the ground I wish you all the luck in the world cause I can assure you of one thing if you do, you wont be spending any more time on this site..You'll be too busy worrying about how your going to pay all the bills and cut corners to increase your profits if they ever come...LOL...

Well that is my advice and entertainment for today LOL

GOOD LUCK

Anaheim wrote:

Thatawesomeguy wrote:

Anaheim wrote:

Actually your money can go far if you will live here in The Philipines.. cost of living is cheap and bearable.

Cost of living cheap?   4% increase every year of all basic needs...
5 years ago  rice was 18 peso a kilo   now  its 40 peso a kilo.

Crime on the rise do to a larger and larger gap in the haves and the have nots.

Come and stay here for 6 months,  a year   try it out first before deciding to move here... please.
Do not put all your eggs into one basket.
and remember  her line  "cheap and bearable"
compared to what>?

i love this country and i love my partner   but  it is what it is mate   dont think it is something that it is not.

Bearable   lol   dont u think that is an interesting statement...

alright let me elaborate my previous message..

But before that no one is interetsed to know if you love your partner or not..no need to mention that. lol

Am talking about the cost of living here in The Philipines..which is really cheaper or maybe better to use the word "affordable" compare to other countries like Australia. but ofcourse it varies to your lifestyle. If you're the kind of a person who wanted to live the life that he/she can't afford then it's a different story. Food an dclothings are cheap. A regular individual spends around 7k php or maybe less than that every month for food alone.Food and groceries are not expensive to purchase in the Philippines.If you are prepared to eat local foods then your food and groceries will be quite cheap. Even if you allow for a fixture of western style foods the cost will not be enormous compared with what you would pay back home.Clothes can be considerably cheap as well it depends upon the person. so let's say 25,000php a month budget is enough for you to survive and live here in The Philippines.

Not really trying to be silly but you have to understand that foreigner's money can go far in The Philippines since his dollars will be multiplied...

And to sum up everything ,
The cost of living in the Philippines is considerably cheaper than in western countries. How frugally you want to live is entirely up to you, as the options are many.

Hi Anaheim..

I like your answer to Thats.........., but I have a question for you...Judging from your profile photo you seem to be a very lovely young lady, but your message to Thats is so precise and verbally correct(far better than most educated Filipinos) with a flair of being written by possibly an American...I don't want to appear to be stereo-typing but how is it your message doesn't fit the photo...Are you truly one in the same person or are you using the photo of someone else???...

well u know how it is vetretreat i do live off 1200  a month  but my basic needs are only 600    some months we spend more   ie holidays  medical or whatever expenditure  i did not for see for the months budget    and u know what i am referring to  life is life.

As to how I make a living and live here at my age  well that is my business    sure I could tell u that when i was younger i made a lot of fine business investments and I am ok   for the duration of my life     but alas   I will not go into any further detail 

As to the 50 i will say again  u need a minimum  and i mean bare min  of 50 k a month  and u can not see u disagree with me 
At no point am i complaining
i am pointing out the cost of inflation and that has to be considered for anyone moving here   ....or should i not point that out also????
I may have been a little off   with the average wage scenario   but the min wage here is 3800 a month   
Now  lets not forget how people come to the conclusion of averages    ie  take them sum of the totals and then divide them by the numbered work force.   
so its not really a fair assessment of what the average wage is    the median wage is aprox 7000 and something ( look i can google stats too)

At no point was i criticizing the gentleman on the other thread   i was only pointing out the drama's my and my business partner here had when we did the sums on the exact same idea....
ie   suggesting he should look into this  and i am very very sure  he is more than happy with the information i have given him as  that is as far as i got with my end of the business  my business partner actually decided instead do go to thailand instead     we shook hands and parted ways   

People will never agree  no matter where u are on a whole range of different thoughts and matters
but then again  i didn't attack u on a forum and i think i have explained myself rather well( wasn't aware i had to  but alas i guess u needed closure on this particular subject)so i hope it made your day dude..
I guess because of my age  I must be talking out of my bum.. im obviously not worldly as much as a man twice my age 

As to why i have played a bit of a gypsy    how would i know where i want to live and stay here  if I have not traveled around and lived at places i have considered???  I probably should have mentioned that i used to do a lot of missionary work around the provinces in mindinao and the nature of our work meant that we were never anywhere for longer then a few months  but if i had to sit down and tell my life story   we would need a much bigger forum.
     all  i have done here  is tried to help   give advice ( being that i have lived in asia for a bloody long time) and perhaps stop people from making a mistake or being uninformed before they come here
never fear I will never directly attack someone  and I am none to worried about you post
I hope i have answered all your questions   please feel free to post some more  and i will surely answer them with due diligence with time permitting

take care and god bless

thanx very much mate I appreciate it

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/1 … d%3D332479

taken from another site    it should help u and other a bit

now this is the basic costs in cebu for two people   ok
this is far from reality 
but  it is just a bit more info for u