Vietnamese Birth Certificate for new baby (follow-up query)

You can try seeing another clerk in that office. Many times the rules and laws are subject the persons knowledge on the other side of the desk. I remember standing in line with my wife to get some part of our marriage certificate done and the girl said we had done something wrong and had to redo something. My wife just said don't worry and we got back in line and talked to another clerk and she didn't even look twice at our stuff, she just put the red stamp on it and that was it.
Uncle Ho can always help in these situations also, your wife should know how to handle that.

I can only answer the first question.

You (and the local office) seem to mix between two different things: certificate of birth and citizenship.

According to Decree No: 158/2005/ND-CP, Chapter III:Section 1, Point 4.

" Children may have Vietnamese or foreign names, depending on their parents' selection."

So it is up to you and your wife to choose whatever name you desire.

http://www.moj.gov.vn/vbpq/en/Lists/Vn% … temID=6374

Now if you want your child to be Vietnamese citizen, then the local office is right may be

According to Decree 24/2008/QH12 Citizenship Law
http://www.moj.gov.vn/vbpq/en/Lists/Vn% … emID=10451

§16.2. A child either of whose parents is a Vietnamese citizen at the time of his/her birth and the other is a foreign national has the Vietnamese nationality if so agreed in writing by his/her parents at the time of birth registration. In case a child is born in the Vietnamese territory but his/her parents fail to reach an agreement on the selection of his/her nationality, the child has Vietnamese nationality.

However, it says nothing that a child must have a Vietnamese name!!


§19.4 says that you must have a Vietnamese name, if you APPLY for Vietnamese citizenship, which your child does not have to since she can be Vietnamese by default if you two agree. (in the VIetnamese version, it says "calling name", i.e., first name).

Now I know of a certain gangster in this forum, whom I would not name , who claims to be able to get away of a Vietnamese middle name when applying to reclaim his VIetnamese citizenship, so it is certainly possible.


So what should you do?
You may start with getting yourself familiar with the law. Go to the office and argue. Often, the local official does not know the law.

If you don't care whether the child has a Vietnamese passport or not, the case is clear: you can choose.

If you do want a Vietnamese passport in addition to the UK one you mention, you need to interpret the law to your favor. In Vietnam, that approach does not work often. A lawyer may help. Connection is best.

If that fails, there is always the option of applying to change the name later.

Thanks for both your responses.

Anatta - your clear and detailed response is much appreciated. You are quite right to highlight the issue of citizenship, which I neglected to do in my original post.

We wish our child to have Vietnamese citizenship, and we have already indicated as such on the first form we have filled out as part of this process. I don't think we can backtrack on this.

Given this, it would appear that we are legally required to have a Vietnamese "calling name" (?). Getting the law "interpreted to our favour" would then have to be our only course of action. I know of other parents in our situation who have Western calling names on VN birth certificates, without encountering any problems. It is possible! Because of this, I had not anticipated anything like this. Frustrating.

Any other suggestions appreciated, including the names of any lawyers who have experience in this field. Thanks

Given you are UK citizen, you can argue that your child can have a Western name based on the first law exclusively. Just don't mention about the second law. Even if they do, you can say that it is not clear as I explained earlier.

It makes sense for your child to have Vietnamese citizen if you plan to stay in Vietnam.

Don't know any name to recommend. Sorry.

Why don't you bring the examples you said you know where they allowed to show them? It is not that they can revoke earlier decisions thus hurting those people.

If one of the parents is a VN national then the child gets automatic citizenship as per these paragraphs froma website.

BY BIRTH: Birth within the Republic of Vietnam does not automatically confer citizenship. Exceptions: A child born in Vietnam to parents who are stateless and have permanent residence in Vietnam; a child found abandoned within the territory of Vietnam.

BY DESCENT: Child, both of whose parents are citizens of Vietnam, regardless of the child's country of birth. Child, one of whose parents is a citizen of Vietnam and the other is stateless, regardless of the child's country of birth.

Child, one of whose parents is a citizen of Vietnam and the other is a foreign national, if the child was born in Vietnam or the parents had permanent residence in Vietnam at the time of birth.

VungTauDon wrote:

You can try seeing another clerk in that office. Many times the rules and laws are subject the persons knowledge on the other side of the desk. I remember standing in line with my wife to get some part of our marriage certificate done and the girl said we had done something wrong and had to redo something. My wife just said don't worry and we got back in line and talked to another clerk and she didn't even look twice at our stuff, she just put the red stamp on it and that was it.
Uncle Ho can always help in these situations also, your wife should know how to handle that.

Like "Uncle Ho can always help in these situations also, your wife should know how to handle that" ...you are real Vietnamese!

Hi

I think so, that the case is always same. Officials will look, that "if they have to register foreign name" to their register, that is "the challenge". So the case is quite often: check how the legislation is in your own country (UK law)? In my country, it does not very much matter, name changes are quite straight forward issues (meaning, if there is a problem). Naturally will take time a little bit (2 weeks) to do changes to the first names (after it has been for example registered 1 time to UK register: I do not not that one...). Or afterwards even the changes to "given names" are possible. 

Secondly: In Vietnamese passport there are not Lastname and First names segregated. They are all in same "name line".

I registered my child name as "Alex", 2nd name Vietnamese, 3rd name Vietnamese, and my lastname naturally as "lastname". It was my wish. And in that "order". And it has not been the problem so far in any circumstances.

So, check the case according to UK law. And could the "first name order" be to you a problem?

I think so, that you should more consider the issue of double citizenship: meaning 2 passport (do you want to get that one to child). This possibility has not been long in Vietnamese legislation.

And "uncle ho" can help in many cases.

Do not take anything "to higher levels". It does not help you. Can have more problems afterwards.

Answers are difficult to give, because it needs on overall level details of marriage registered (both countries?). What do you both prefer? Child is born in Vietnam, or UK? Usually rule is, "you have to have birth certificate". And the legislations in 2 countries are 2 different procedures. Legally. Same for the marriage registration. As you probably have noticed.

So, follow the Vietnam procedures, as much you can. And at the same time clarify "the case" to "your case".

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_birth_certificates_and_changing_

Had this same issue with my son. He was born in Vietnam and is a Vietnamese and US citizen. His first and last names are English and his middle name is Vietnamese. They didn't like it at first and argued we could not do that. But we argued back that there is no law saying it can no tbe done. Just one name has to be a Vietnamese name as you said, "calling name" We said his middle name is his calling name. So he does in fact have English first name, Vietnamese middle name, and my family/English name as his last name. Try a different clerk and don't back down.

Hello.
Would you please tell me, guys, where I should go to get the Vietnamese b.certificate in Saigon at the first place? My boys were born just a week ago and we are czech-polish couple. Cheers

kail wrote:

Hello.
Would you please tell me, guys, where I should go to get the Vietnamese b.certificate in Saigon at the first place? My boys were born just a week ago and we are czech-polish couple. Cheers

First get the birth document from the hospital, then take it to the Justice Department in HCMC and apply for the birth certificate. Then you can go to your consulate to report their birth.

Sweet! Is it that : 141-143 Pasteur St., Ward 6, Dist.3C right
Is it enough if I go there alone with all paperwork as I'm written in the hospital docs that I'm the father? we re not married you know...or should we just go there all us together? Cheers...

kail wrote:

Sweet! Is it that : 141-143 Pasteur St., Ward 6, Dist.3C right
Is it enough if I go there alone with all paperwork as I'm written in the hospital docs that I'm the father? we re not married you know...or should we just go there all us together? Cheers...

I am in the same boat as you, then. That's the right address and I'm pretty sure both of you do not need to attend just for a birth certificate. I didn't go, just my "husband."

I'm an American, so I have no idea if this is the same for an EU citizen like you, but I'll tell you what I had to do. My husband and I are married by common law in US, but don't have a marriage certificate or anything of that nature. So to Viets, we are not married. Because of that I had to go to the US consulate and get a special paper from them instead of showing the Justice Department my marriage certificate. This piece of paper is meant for unmarried couples and single moms. We took that paper, my passport and the birth document to the Justice Department and everything was okay then.

You can always ask your consulate what's needed if you doubt the Vietnamese side. I had to speak to mine several times because the Vietnamese government and even lawyers we asked were giving false information because they are not use to "unmarried" couples. Hope that helps!