Voodoo !

The "genie" from the western viewpoint in the Arab Muslim world is nothing else but a "Jinn" which is mentioned in the Qur'an as one of God's Creation. God says, "I Crteaed Man and Jinn...".

Further, it is explained that humans are created from Clay while Jinns are created from Fire and that they may not necessarily be seen or heard by humans and that they may also take shapes and forms as they please and dwell, in pairs with their mates just like us humans, in rocks, caves, and desolate places.

The thinking amongst most Arabs in the case of ghosts and possessions is based on the idea that one of these Jinn's is the one responsible for such events and acts.

There are several "Sheikhs", who are well versed in this subject and also learned in Qur'an and Sunnah, who do indulge in exorcisms to drive out these Jinns from the humans they have "possessed" or even "afflicted". Of course, they only use the scriptures and whatever has been handed down to them through authentic sources to carry these exorcisms. No doubt there must also be many "quacks" posing off as exorcists who dupe the gullible public in such matters as prevails in other faiths and belief systems.

Very few can truly explain who or what a Jinn is in reality. It is usually attributed to what is call the "Ghaib" or "Unseen" in Islam, which is accepted by all Muslims, irrespecive of their sects and affiliations.

It sure is an interesting topic that the little PuddyTat has opened up for further discussion and input from the others.

This is what I know.

It's not Voodoo per se, but black magic.  There's a difference.  Voodoo is a religion, while the practice of black magic is generally not in the sense you are encountering it here.

Practitioners of black magic, among Muslims, still believe in Islam, but utilize black magic for a variety of nefarious reasons; vendettas, marital discourse, personal gain and personal ruin.  Those that employ a "shaman" to perform such rituals are not believers in Voodoo, the religion.

And you will find many Muslims who do, indeed, believe in ghosts and spirits.  These aren't only limited to the lesser educated, either.

It's not Voodoo per se, but black magic.  There's a difference

Yep, you're right about that--there is this distinction.  I tend to lump it all together but you're right about the religious aspects.

Now, getting back to the Saudis, they talked about a witch getting a piece of your hair or whatever and then casting a spell (it came up in a discussion about illegal Indonesian immigrants!).

Here is what somebody said and the others nodded in agreement:  that when the big tsunami hit, and entire villages were destroyed, many people who had been inexplicably ill before the tsunami were suddenly well because the bottles containing the personal articles which had been used in the casting of the spells had been washed out to sea and destroyed!

The  people having this discussion are fairly well-educated urban dwellers.

Ive heard this same story before. There are tales that are related from the Red Sea too where many of these bottles an talismans gave been recovered from the sea etc etc.

Absolute Balderdash in my view.

I do not believe in ghosts nor am I afraid of them. Join me for a midnight walk through any cemetery on the planet and I will be your guest.

As a child, yes I was afraid based on all the rubbish that was pushed down my throat but I have successfully managed to DE-BRAINWASH myself to a degree where I can use common sense and reasoning to make my conlusions and live my life.

I dont wear any protection to be safe from such demons. I am a big boy, I can take care of myself.

The term "Voodoo" in a generic sense applies to all forms of the same thing, in my humble view.

musicman wrote:

The term "Voodoo" in a generic sense applies to all forms of the same thing, in my humble view.

Voodoo is a religion.

What curses are attempted or thrown here are not part of the Voodoo religion.  The procedures for throwing a curse are often vastly different between practitioners of Voodoo and those of the black magic variety found among the practitioners of Islam.

Haitian Vodou or Vaudou (French pronunciation: [vodu], Anglicised as Voodoo) is a syncretic religion originating from the Caribbean country of Haiti. It is based upon a merging of the beliefs and practices of West African peoples (mainly the Fon and Ewe; see West African Vodun), with Arawakian religious beliefs, and Roman Catholic Christianity, which was brought about as African slaves were brought to Haiti in the 16th century and forced to convert to the religion of their slavers, while they largely still followed their traditional African beliefs.

Louisiana Voodoo, also known as New Orleans Voodoo, describes a set of underground religious practices which originated from the traditions of the African diaspora. It is a cultural form of the Voodoo religions which historically developed within the French, Spanish, and Creole speaking African-American population of the U.S. state of Louisiana. It is one of many incarnations of African-based religions rooted in the West African Dahomean Vodou tradition and the Central African traditions. They became syncretized with the Catholic religion and Francophone culture of South Louisiana as a result of the slave trade. Louisiana Voodoo is often confused with – but is not completely separable from – Haitian Vodou and southeastern U.S. hoodoo. It differs from Haitian Vodou in its emphasis upon Gris-gris, voodoo queens, use of "Hoodoo" occult paraphernalia and Li Grand Zombi (snake deity). This emphasis has marked the culture of Afro Diaspora, francophone Louisiana within the Western media. It was through Louisiana Voodoo that such terms as gris-gris (a Wolof term) and voodoo dolls were introduced into the American lexicon.

Vodun or Vudun (so spelled in the Fon language of Benin and the Ewe language of Togo and Ghana; also spelled Vodon, Vodoun, Voudou, Voodoo etc.) is a traditional Polytheistic organised religion of coastal West Africa, from Nigeria to Ghana. It is distinct from the various traditional animistic religions in the interiors of these same countries, as well as from various religions with often similar names of the African Diaspora in the New World, such as Haitian Vodou, the similar Vudu of the Dominican Republic, Candomblé Jejé in Brazil (which uses the term Vodum), Louisiana Voodoo, and Santería in Cuba, which are syncretized with Christianity and the traditional religions of the Kongo people of Congo and Angola.

The word vodún is the Gbe (Fon-Ewe) word for spirit. When the word is capitalized, Vodun, it denotes the religion. When it is not, vodun, it denotes the spirits that are central to the religion. "Voodoo" is the most common pronunciation amongst English speakers. Vodun is practised by the Ewe, Kabye, Mina, Fon, peoples of southeastern Ghana, southern and central Togo, southern and central Benin,and (under a different name) the Yoruba in southwestern Nigeria.

Dictionary dot Com gives the following:-

voo·doo   /ˈvudu/  Show Spelled [voo-doo]  Show IPA noun,plural-doos, adjective, verb,-dooed, -doo·ing.

–noun

1.Also, vodun. a polytheistic religion practiced chiefly by West Indians, deriving principally from African cult worship and containing elementsborrowed from the Catholic religion.

2.a person who practices this religion.

3.a fetish or other object of voodoo worship.

4.a group of magical and ecstatic rites associated with voodoo.

5.(not in technical use) black magic; sorcery.

–adjective

6.of, pertaining to, associated with, or practicing voodoo.

7.Informal: Usually Disparaging. characterized by deceptively simple, almost magical, solutions or ideas: voodoo politics.

–verb (used with object)

8.to affect by voodoo sorcery.

where the noun "Voodoo" is also classified as a religion. My view of Voodooo was more as an adjective describing a cult or certain practise. You learn something new everyday.

What I had in kmind as an unque religion associated with the acts of Voodoo was the WICCANS who worhsip the so called Devil or Satan.

I have lived my life for 62 years without worrying about where I put my clipped toenails or hair and so far no "Voodoo" witch or wizard has called upon me. When they do I sure will be tyge first one to retract my statement.

In my book, so far, theres no sucg thing. Its just a figment of ouyr imagination and total brainwashing.

I repeat, you learn something new everyday.

I don't believe it in either--I find it mindboggling that any educated person does. 

On the other hand, maybe I've led an insular life

musicman wrote:

What I had in mind as a unique religion associated with the acts of Voodoo was the WICCANS who worship the so called Devil or Satan.

Those who follow the tenets of Wicca do not worship the Devil or Satan.  You are confusing Wicca witchcraft with sorcery.

The tenets of Wicca can be summed up in it's rede (which can be construed as the prime law or guideline) "Do as ye will, an harm none."

Practitioners of Wicca believe that if they intentionally harm someone through the use of magic, magick or a spell or curse that it will return to them three-fold.  Wicca is white magic, not black.

True enough I may not be as educated as you are in this arena, possibly cos I never gave it much credence and always attributed it to stupidity, ignorance, old wives tales, superstitions and rituals.

No doubt science cannot explain eacn and every event or phenomenon, but it eventually does and will do, with time as we have seen with many other unseen things from the past.

I remember my grandmother sued to warn us against takeing a hricut or pairng our nails on Tuesdays saying that it would make it difficult for us to be cured from disease if and when we fall ill. As a kid it had a tremendous impact on me and I adhered to it 100% but when I grew up I realized that Tuesdays were man made and that the Gregorian calendar was invented and re-designed over the years for many of its inconsistencies and hence a Tuesday cannot necessarily be a Tuesday from day 1 of creation to date. Thats when I gave up that kind of thinking.

Then there is the phenomenon of fire balls chasing peoplein the dark in dark and desolate places filled with marshland etc. Only sicnece was able to prove that it was the methane gas emenating from the bog thyat was igniting and moving with the wind.

Well, havent we all heard of walking under the ladder, toudhing wood, the number 13, ec etc.?

Complete balderdash where I am concerned.

I don't believe in that stuff either. Nor do I believe in leprechauns or the toothfairy.

Guess I have a closed mind, too

maybe we are better off with minds that are closed to balderdash rather than have minds that are open to hocus pocus?

One bases his belief in anything based on his upbringing and experiences. Not everyone have the same.

0010 in Decimal is the value TEN while in Binary it is TWO and in OCTAL it is EIGHT and in HEXADECIMAL is it SIXTEEN

We perceive in what we know and believe based on many facets which are sacred and valuable to each of us. Just because one mans spirits is anotrher mans balderdash doesnt make either stupid.

Misterstretch, are you saying this is your  RELIGIOUS belief??  Or is it a belief similiar to believing in extraterrestials?  Maybe I'm not understanding your correctly. 

The reason I piped in is because of the way you jumped down musicman's throat.  If you want to be respected, you must also respect.  This was supposed to be an exchange of ideas, a discussion, not an argument about who is "right" and who is "wrong."

I think I dl have the RIGHT to consider whats BALDERDAH for ME
It may not necessarily be poutrid for others
I can accept and respect that
But I aint AFRAID to say what I beloieve is BALDERDASH ort not

Yes, AC, these are my spiritual beliefs.  I said so in my first post on this thread.

No, you didn't.  What you said was:

It's not Voodoo per se, but black magic.  There's a difference.  Voodoo is a religion ...As a believer in magic and its practice, I make sure that I am protected in the event someone wishes to throw a curse my way.

The way I read this, you'd distinguished between religion/spiritual beliefs and black magic.

So for you to say at this point that magic is your spiritual belief seems, in fact, to contradict what you'd said in your first post. 

Now, I can only speak for myself here but I feel that we all add something to this forum.  You say musicman is condescending.  It could be said that you are a 'know-it-all.'  And as for me, I tend to be sarcastic and it's not always appropriate, I know.

Several times you've hinted at leaving this forum and I personally would hate to see you go--I think you contribute a lot of good information.  But I also think you do need to lighten up and not take things so personally--just my opinion, of course

The ability to know when someone else is making a statement, asking a question, being cynical, sarcastic, insulting, or kind is not learned from text books. It comnes with experience and interaction with various different peoples through time...

musicman, you're being condescending again!



That said, one's tone is easily misinterpreted in writing.  That's why God invented smilies

Stretch,

WHY do you zoom in on things you consider negative and ignore the positive? 

If you can flat-out say that musicman is condescending, why can't I say that it could be said you are a know-it-all? I also basically nixed this statement when I went on to say you contribute a lot of good information to the forum (a statement you chose to ignore).

In an attempt to even things out, I admitted that I  am inappropriately sarcastic at times (again, a statement you chose to ignore).

I also said I'd hate to see you leave the forum, but instead of acknowledging that positive statement, you allude to your memory 'going.'

It seems that my continuing with this thread is pointless since you are so intent on being offended.  My best attempts at mediation have failed. As I'd said earlier, this was supposed to be a discussion, not an argument about who is 'right' and who is 'wrong.'

omg! hmmm, I guess my expertise is required here

but I should do it at home, not in office


till then. cool off. lol

Musicman, Allie

That was a pretty accurate description of the "Jinn". They are mentioned in other religions as well. Succubus and Incubus? Same thing.

Perhaps you two should sit down and enjoy the company of some of those people who have been "possessed" or "afflicted" and went through an exorcism. It may seem like a fairy tale but these people lived through it and the signs are ever so visible.

One thing about the "Jinn" or "Djinn" as they are better known in some cultures, including Native American, is that once a person is possessed by a Jinn and a proper exorcism is performed, the part of the body where the Jinn exits is no longer functional, usually the eye or a finger in accordance with word of mouth.

Now in terms of Black Magic, Witchcraft, whatever you want to call it. I'm not really a firm believer but I know well enough to acknowledge it because I've seen it happen around me and to me personally. It was nothing major but it was enough to make me think. It never hurts to be a little superstitious.

Hope you all enjoy your weekend

guess I missed Mister streatch's response, it doesn't appear in the thread I see, but I have to say, I am surprised by the mystical/supernatural qualities of this thread. Coming from a recent visit in South America, I am intrigued by the occult aspects of Islam. I will be interested in exploring this, if only on a cultural level, when I arrive in April. This is the kind of thing I find so interesting about learning new cultures!

Thanks for the insight allicat!