An apology from the rest of us -- from Saudi Gazette newspaper

While there are many incidents in which expats are given less favor against Saudis, there are too too many incidents/accidents in which Saudis have been trialed and punished equally and in justified manner. Mishaps and favorism happens everywhere.

We, as expats do immediately start shouting at blogs and websites if anything goes against us, but we should remember that despite all the negative aspects, there does exists an equilibrium between locals and expats. Most of the expats strongly believe that K.S.A is one of the most safe places on Earth to live with their families.

shikra wrote:

While there are many incidents in which expats are given less favor against Saudis, there are too too many incidents/accidents in which Saudis have been trialed and punished equally and in justified manner. Mishaps and favorism happens everywhere.

We, as expats do immediately start shouting at blogs and websites if anything goes against us, but we should remember that despite all the negative aspects, there does exists an equilibrium between locals and expats. Most of the expats strongly believe that K.S.A is one of the most safe places on Earth to live with their families.

with recent events, i wouldn't exactly agree to that mate.

@shikra,
On one side of equation you have taken justice and equilibrium, and the other side you've considered one-directional mishaps. Sorry mate. Imbalance equation

As Salman indicated as well, such incidents are increasing awfully. I consider this as a social side-effect of the recent raid activities. I wish expats and locals must all sync to the fact that the operations were against a different asymmetry of the system. It was not against expats, not even against illegals.

TheLegendLeads wrote:

@shikra,
On one side of equation you have taken justice and equilibrium, and the other side you've considered one-directional mishaps. Sorry mate. Imbalance equation

Do you know the number of justified actions taken by Courts in K.S.A against Saudis? Try to equate them against # of biased decisions taken against expats just because Saudi is not to be blamed.

As Salman indicated as well, such incidents are increasing awfully. I consider this as a social side-effect of the recent raid activities. I wish expats and locals must all sync to the fact that the operations were against a different asymmetry of the system. It was not against expats, not even against illegals.

No, I think such incidents are decreasing now. Long time before, such incidents use to happen more but as the population is getting more civilized, educated and socially motivated, the air between Saudis and Expats is becoming better. Leave the fact that the Governments rules are becoming more tough for expats day by day, but the interaction between locals and expats, well, it is hell better than how it was 20 years before.

@shikra,
You missed the point totally. Let me explain in simpler words.

The number of justice cases must be ideally 100%.
The number of biased or unjustified case must be 0%. All of them must be brought to book.

Now, no logic on earth can let you think of equating them and feeling ok. It may be ok with you, not for anyone else.

boylibog wrote:

too many expats are opening this site....

but only you guys who are commenting in this subject...

95% because they are afraid to give comments. Eventhough they have the sympathy, still they cannot give comments because they are afraid. Same like what happened at the supermarket, many people saw the incident but they didn't interfere, help, assist, because they are afraid to deal with saudi nationals wherein it's clearly stated in the article about what they did with that expat family.

this is the simple effect that we decided to keep our mouths closed because this is the general rule here in saudi arabia.( You keep your mouth and you close your eyes ). I hope that expat family may recover fast from that trauma.

I pray that God may give them strength in facing challenges and continue to bless them in all aspects of their lives.

Agreed 100%.

This can happen to anyone anytime. You, me or who; it doesn't matter at all. May God protect us and our families.

TheLegendLeads wrote:

@shikra,
You missed the point totally. Let me explain in simpler words.

The number of justice cases must be ideally 100%.
The number of biased or unjustified case must be 0%. All of them must be brought to book.

Now, no logic on earth can let you think of equating them and feeling ok. It may be ok with you, not for anyone else.

It is natural for us to use comparative analysis while thinking about literally anything. A place where criminal and unjustified actions are more is less safe for any expat. When I was about to visit South Korea, I saw lot of people on expat forums asking 'Is it safe to live in South Korea', 'What is the crime rate there?', 'Do expats face hatred if they belong to western society?' etc etc....

Now you are saying that a place where 0% injustice is present, no one should consider it and only focus on only those negative incidents that happen to expats because of Saudis, I would say that we are only trying to face one side of the picture.

Cheers,
S.

if that had happened to me, i would be on the deportation list for a saudi man being dropped to the ground.  happily

Freshlikesushi wrote:

if that had happened to me, i would be on the deportation list for a saudi man being dropped to the ground.  happily

Probably the same would have happened if I was involved in the incident.

Dirty fishes are present everywhere. Saudis, in general and with respect to their social/cultural responsibilities, are deeply concerned about any abuse/issue related to the family as a whole, be it a Saudi Family or expat Family. This incident which has happened and sparked attention is basically an exception. I have never seen any Saudi coming even close to my family if we are standing in a queue (due to respect for families that is in their heart).

I have never seen any Saudi talking directly to female members of family if a male member is present (i am talking about expat families)

Despite, I have seen favors given to me if I am traveling or visiting any place with my family.

But yes, I have seen Saudis harassing girls (and this happens everywhere in the world, not only Saudia). I have seen some guys trying to touch the girls while walking in the Malls (Tell the security and see how they kick them out from the Mall even if they are Saudi).
I have heard from a witness that some Saudis were immediately arrested in a shopping place because they tried to harass one expat girl.

that type of behavior is completely abhorrent.  i regret the expat family had that experience.  if i was in the guys shoes i'd wind up either in the hospital or in jail.

But putting the incident into perspective, things like this can happen anywhere in the world.  Counter balance this with the times we've been treated very well simply by nature of being expats.

Example:  I was at the Jenadriyah Festival and there was a huge crowd watching some dancers. People noticed me at the back and began to move aside, encouraging me to move forward for a better view.  The soldiers at the front saw what was happening and personally escorted me to the front row. Somebody in a chair hopped off and insisted I sit down. The Saudi ladies next to me were smiling at me and nodding--everybody seemed very happy and pleased that I was interested in the dancing and enjoying myself; I, on the other hand, found it rather embarrassing to be given such VIP treatment but did appreciate the kindness the Saudis showed and joined in the clapping.

98.75% of saudis are kick ass super cool people

its the other ones that suck well..you know what im getting it

same thing with americans, canadians, europeans, etc etc etc

Freshlikesushi wrote:

98.75% of saudis are kick ass super cool people

its the other ones that suck well..you know what im getting it

same thing with americans, canadians, europeans, etc etc etc

EGG-zactly

Alliecat wrote:

Freshlikesushi wrote:

98.75% of saudis are kick ass super cool people

its the other ones that suck well..you know what im getting it

same thing with americans, canadians, europeans, etc etc etc

EGG-zactly

Thanks Cat and Sushy for shouldering the efforts in showing the positive side of the picture

The Indecent is awful, and sure the behavior is not the norm and cannot be passed in general manner. Tariq is merely trying to highlight the raising attention over the expat community and the injustice in legislations.

Respect to Tariq!!

boylibog wrote:

TO Captain Jaw Breaker, The Legendleads, and Tariq,

the 3 of you are correct in your opinions. I do admire your courage in sharing your sides and understanding in this matter.

regards,

There is no 'correct' or 'incorrect' here.  As Sushi stated, and as common sense dictates, there are good and bad people in all countries and sometimes sh*t happens. 

I'm sorry this bad thing happened to the man and his wife but, as I said, sometimes good things happen, too, but nobody is writing a newspaper article about it.

Injustice stings, for sure, but it's sometimes the way things are for outsiders, no matter the country.

Skin color matters too. They were probably "brown" so it was their fault.

@shikra
The incident didn't happen at some isolated place. It was a mall with people around and CCTV footage and yet no action was taken. You bet had this happened in some "white" infidel country, that man would have been behind bars by now.

Freshlikesushi wrote:

98.75% of saudis are kick ass super cool people

its the other ones that suck well..you know what im getting it

same thing with americans, canadians, europeans, etc etc etc

My experience with Saudis has also been very good. Very cool and friendly people.

aliweb wrote:

Skin color matters too. They were probably "brown" so it was their fault.

@shikra
The incident didn't happen at some isolated place. It was a mall with people around and CCTV footage and yet no action was taken. You bet had this happened in some "white" infidel country, that man would have been behind bars by now.

Very true about skin color..if you're brown, you will be treated differently, but not all the time. Clearly the problem was with the establishment, they should have prevented the incident from ever getting worse.

But I have to agree to the others who says that locals are good, except for the rotten tomatoes. Well in any place you just have to exercise your "street smart" abilities.

its really unhuman from, but i would not blame all locals for this incident.

at no cost, the saudi male should jump in and push the lady. her wife should slap him as well and think she did when the couple arrived home. relax expats, we are 2nd here.

True Friend Seeker wrote:

its really unhuman from, but i would not blame all locals for this incident.

at no cost, the saudi male should jump in and push the lady. her wife should slap him as well and think she did when the couple arrived home. relax expats, we are 2nd here.

You are missing the point. Nobody cares about those 1% people who acts like this. I know for a fact that majority of Saudi Arabian people are cool and peace loving people. They don't disrespect expats and don't treat them like second class citizens.
So then what exactly is the problem? Well problem starts after someone does like this. These kind of people are everywhere whether USA, Pakistan or Uganda but at least you know that law is on your side. But here the law is not on your side and that's the problem. Look at how mall administration handled this!!
Do you know how severe is the punishment to touch unrelated female here??? But here that man got scot-free like nothing happened.

aliweb wrote:

But here the law is not on your side and that's the problem. Look at how mall administration handled this!!

Good point but I've often seen expats running the store and they are afraid to step in.  A lot of what happens in this country is based on fear of what could be done to you and it's a justifiable fear since laws aren't clear and open to implementation based on the mood of those in charge!

One final thing worth mentioning:  language is often an issue, too.  If the police can understand the Saudi guy and not the expat, he's going to brush off the expat (I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it happens).

Alliecat wrote:

One final thing worth mentioning:  language is often an issue, too.  If the police can understand the Saudi guy and not the expat, he's going to brush off the expat (I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it happens).

Oh yes. This is an important point to understand.

Once, one of my friends visited from DXB and one bad cabbie charged him 4x for a ride from Airport to city; with the help a policeman Well,On the way, he had stopped by a policecar and told him some story (in Arabic of course). The policeman reprimanded my friend and asked him to pay the demanded immediately. Poor fellow suffered coz of the language barrier.

I have had several interactions with the law enforcers here and almost all experiences were good. They are usually decent, understanding & very co-operative. But it does depend on how have you communicated with them.

Example: Last month, a special security squad car seized me for having parked my car in a no-parking-zone next to a security sensitive building I believe I explained him well why I *HAD* to park there. The only thing I got was a 5 minutes wait-time and a verbal warning