Why are there so many lurkers in this forum?

to be honest I myself lurked by when I first read this post..

Yeah, I thought that was you

Lurking is NO sin. But please say HI while you are at it so we know who and what you are, at least.

I was more skulking than lurking, but seen as I am here I might aswell say Hi!!
Hi.

Hi everybody

I've been observing most of the posts here for a while ...

you made me register and speak out now 

YAH!!! 

I made them talk! 

Hi Jamie and Desert Storm!

and wow.. a 'hi' from our mighty leader, Julien.  Hi, Julien!

and another Hello at every one from my side again!

on a side note, I'm actually interested in you Desert Storm.

are you in Riyadh?

Yes, Bro...  I am in Riyadh and born here

just hi

ok . why not ?

hi everybody

Hi Abdu   Welcome!  I'm curious why a 'native' is part of an expat forum--can you (and Desert Storm) explain to me?  (I've only been in KSA a few months so I'm curious about things here and how they work!).

Thanks

Lurkers, Shirkers, Workers....
Does it really matter?
To each his own. Its a free world out there.....

Alliecat,

It looks like the questions have started flying around ya after weeks of living in Saudi lol

Ok...

It is the same curiosity that you hold has pushed me to be part of an expat forum in Saudi to explore their real ideas about Saudi. How they see it? How are they been treated? Because I believe their a treasure that I can learn from.

Moreover, I have been an expat for almost 6 years in the US so I know what it feels to be one.

As Saudi, I was in there when Sept. 11th hit... I've been questioned, interrogated, and searched by police and FBI because I was Saudi and carried the middle eastern features (black hair and dark skinned). I do know to how it feels to be on these shoes.

I hope that can justify the idea. I really understand if the expats in Saudi get skeptic when they deal or socialize with Saudis due to two points (in my opinion).

1. the ways Saudis deal with expats within the kingdom.

2. The stereotype image of Saudis and its people on the western media or maybe other media in general. 


Thanks.

Hi Desert Storm,

Could you elaborate on "the ways Saudis deal with expats within the kingdom."

How do you think they treat us?

Thanksssssssssssssss

A lurker is somebody who reads but never says anything, never adds.

Alliecat wrote:

Hi Desert Storm,

Could you elaborate on "the ways Saudis deal with expats within the kingdom."

How do you think they treat us?

Thanksssssssssssssss

Well,

my colleagues at work now are two Filipinos and Indian national (my manger) so we go for long conversations regarding the way that some Saudis treat them.

Saudis are divided into three categories in my opinion and they are as follow:

1. Saudi Bedouins those who belong to tribes and they populate about 40 to 50% of Saudi population.

2. Saudi urban who populated the cities for ages (I belong to this category)

3. Saudi by immigration who migrated to Saudi specially for Hajj season then settled and mostly came from (Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Pakistan, Yemen, Afghanistan, Bukharin, Indonesian, and some African countries (The Saudi National Team is a good example). This category is the most open minded toward expats in Saudi and mostly populate the western side of Saudi especially Jeddah and Makkah.

Saudis from the first and second type have kind of superiority, ego, and over dignity due to some traditional customs inherited by their ancestors (which is wrong and Islam non to do with). These two categories could be similar to the rednecks in the US and who sometimes consider the white race as a superior race (especially black and native Americans races) (red Indian I think).

These two types look at the expats as outsiders taking their work and fortune opportunities especially those who never been out of the kingdom.

I am tired thinking and writing now lol ... please ask questions and I will answer them.

Please note that what is written above is total personal opinion.

Wow...  Souire.  WHERE to begin ?!?

First off, I am Catholic, 13 years of Catholic schooling, and I have NEVER ever been told I need to convert anybody!!!!  You have NEVER ever opened your door on a Saturday morning to find a Catholic standing there, holding religious literature!!

You are thinking of Jehovah's Witnesses!!!  Additionally, Church of the Later Day Saints (the Mormons) are supposed to spend a period of time as missionaries, spreading the word.

Born-Again Christians are also zealots.

But CATHOLICS???  Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .. we spend all our time playing bingo.  Didn't you know this ?!?

Also, in the three months (not a long time, admittedly, but I have some firsthand experience, which you don't) I've been here, NOBODY has tried to convert me to Islam (maybe they just think I wouldn't make a very good Muslim hehe).  I've questioned my colleagues about certain things they do, etc., which could have 'opened the door' for them but they answered my questions with a smile and that was that.

I think you spend too much time listening to the disgruntled and have no experience of your own with which to balance it. 

And .. you're not a lurker

my colleagues at work now are two Filipinos and Indian national (my manger)

Desert Storm,

Well that explains it.  I have noticed that privilege due to the color of one's skin is alive and well in KSA. 

My first encounter with that was at the airport when I arrived. I entered the large immigration area and there were long lines of dark skinned men.  When I filled out my papers, I went and stood at the end of one of the lines.

A policeman immediately came over, pulled me out of that line and waved me to the far right--an area that seemed closed--where there were just a few people in line.  I went over and got in that line.

Cop grabs me again and directs me to the extreme right, the wall--but it seemed nobody was there. But I go there anyway.  And guess what? There IS a guy on duty ... and I'm the only one in line.!!

God help the darkskinned men in the long lines that weren't moving--they're probably still there! (reminds me of the last scene in the movie Beetlejuice).

Now, maybe this preferential treatment had to do with being a woman--but I think more probably color of skin/passport.  I could be wrong. Am I?

What I've noticed is that--and this is a huge generality, of course--the darker one's skin, the less skilled the work he or she does here.  And because of this, Saudi's have come to view all men from Sri Lanka as laborers and Filipina women as house maids.  This gives those Saudi's a feeling of superiority.

However, the same can be said about the USA.  We have Mexican laborers in our country, doing the work none of us want to do.  And there is also this feeling of superiority to them, because they are doing work 'beneath us.'

So ... in conclusion (yes, I'm finally ending) ... is this attitude toward/treatment of minorities RIGHT or JUST?  Hell, no. But are Saudi's the only national group guilty of this? Again, hell, no.

Oops. I'm NOT ending! Because I do want to mention discrimination based on one's sex.  My western MALE colleagues are treated better than I am--it seems when they want something, they get it whereby the women are put on a 'list,' where we are #3,432.

SO .. there is a definite 'pecking order' here.  The way I've figured it out:

1. Lighter skinned Saudi Males
2. Darker skinned Saudi Males
3. Lighter skinned Saudi Females
4. Darker skinned Saudi Females
5. Arab Expat Males
6. Caucasian Expat Males
7. Arab Expat Females
8. Caucasian Expat Females
9. Dark skinned western expat males
10. Dark skinned western expat females

(whew, this list is getting long!)

11. Filipino males
12. Filipino females
13. Indian/Pakistani males
14. Indian/Pakistani Females
15. Sri Lankan males
16. Sri Lankan females


Okay.. now this listing is FAR from complete because 'age-ism' also figures in LOL 

Your comments, please !!!!!!

Boy do I wana comment. lol. but I aint gonna

I'm waiting to hear from DesertStorm

one word for Salman:  chickennnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

In my view, at a much higher level, I think the pecking order is more like this TOP-DOWN :

1. SAUDI
2. WESTERN CAUCASIAN
3. OTHER ARABS
4. WESTERN NON CAUCASIAN
5. AFRICAN
6. ASIAN

The country doesnt play much of a role. Its what the eye sees and preceives that matters.

One may further break down the classification into even more detail as follows:-

1. SAUDI
1.1 Royal Family
1.2 Top Business Families
1.3 Professionals
1.4 Non Professionals
1.5 Bedouins

2. WESTERN CAUCASIAN
2.1 Male/Female - American/Brit/German/French/Italian
2.2 Male/Female - East European
2.3 Male/Female - South American
2.4 Male/Female - Australian/New Zealander

3. OTHER ARABS
3.1 Gulf Arabs
3.2 Syrian/Jordanian/Palestinian


4. WESTERN NON CAUCASIAN
4.1 All migrants

5. AFRICAN
5.1 Egyptian/Sudani/Eritrean/Somali

6. ASIAN
6.1 Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Malaysian
6.2 Filipino/Indian/Pakistani/Sri Lankan/Bangla Deshi

Job roles also play a significant factor in establishing the levels within the pecking order. The fact that there are hundreds of thousands of Filipina and Sri lankan House maids employed in every sinbgle Saudi household puts the poor nations at the bottom of the pecking order. Same goes for drivers and other labor roles that many Pakistani/Afghan/Indian/Banga Deshi's undertake.

Its not easy to create a serious top down pecking order since sometimes you gotta mix n match based on many other factors.

Actually, someone tried to convert me to Islam; a Muslim in Toronto

You'll get a kick out of this.  I've read that Muslims don't consider it conversion because we're all supposed to be Muslims but somehow got diverted along the way.  So instead of CON-verted to Islam, it's RE-verted to Islam!

And I'm not into religion myself.  That aspect of being in a Muslim country doesn't bother me all. In fact, I look forward to my evening serenade.  Our guy has an incredible voice--he'd give Celine Dion or Mariah Carey a run for their money!

I am really stunned lol ... too many comments to read...

I would relatively agree with Mr. Musicman's comments. Anyhow, these comments need serious thinking to reply and tomorrow is my wife's and son's day so I shouldn't be able to do so... likely I will push it to Saturday!

regarding these dark skinned boys that you've seen in the airport would likely to be Bangladeshi and Sri-Lankans who do beneath jobs as you mentioned. The immigration officers do extra checks to them due to some previous experience with them I guess.

I will come back to the rest of the comments inshallah.

Enjoy your weekend.


     

musicman wrote:

In my view, at a much higher level, I think the pecking order is more like this TOP-DOWN :

1. SAUDI
2. WESTERN CAUCASIAN
3. OTHER ARABS
4. WESTERN NON CAUCASIAN
5. AFRICAN
6. ASIAN

The country doesnt play much of a role. Its what the eye sees and preceives that matters.

One may further break down the classification into even more detail as follows:-

1. SAUDI
1.1 Royal Family
1.2 Top Business Families
1.3 Professionals
1.4 Non Professionals
1.5 Bedouins

2. WESTERN CAUCASIAN
2.1 Male/Female - American/Brit/German/French/Italian
2.2 Male/Female - East European
2.3 Male/Female - South American
2.4 Male/Female - Australian/New Zealander

3. OTHER ARABS
3.1 Gulf Arabs
3.2 Syrian/Jordanian/Palestinian


4. WESTERN NON CAUCASIAN
4.1 All migrants

5. AFRICAN
5.1 Egyptian/Sudani/Eritrean/Somali

6. ASIAN
6.1 Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Malaysian
6.2 Filipino/Indian/Pakistani/Sri Lankan/Bangla Deshi

Job roles also play a significant factor in establishing the levels within the pecking order. The fact that there are hundreds of thousands of Filipina and Sri lankan House maids employed in every sinbgle Saudi household puts the poor nations at the bottom of the pecking order. Same goes for drivers and other labor roles that many Pakistani/Afghan/Indian/Banga Deshi's undertake.

Its not easy to create a serious top down pecking order since sometimes you gotta mix n match based on many other factors.

It might surprise you to know that some of the Shri Lankins in your country do very sophisticated jobs and are very responsible people and by the sound of your comments, they seem to be much more educated that you are.

sourire

sourire,

Please don't make Desert Storm feel that he has to defend himself here.  I don't know about the rest of the expats in this forum, but I value hearing his opinion as a native Saudi.  I don't want him to feel uncomfortable or that he has to water down his comments/observations to suit our sensibilities.  He shouldn't have to feign the political correctness that's been shoved down our throats in the States (and probably other western countries).  In an earlier post, you said you like to learn.  Well, we have an opportunity to learn from Desert Storm--let's value it and encourage his openness.

That said, back to Sri Lankans!  Of course there are some who are educated and doing professional work.  But from what I've seen, the majority are here doing the heavy manual labor.  You'll notice on my list of 'privilege due to skin color,' Sri Lankans are last.  I think even lower on the scale than black Africans because there are so many more from Sri Lanka that they have lesser value.

NOW .. I'm not saying any of this is right.   These are my observations which may or may NOT be correct.  I welcome discussion!

The only reason why Sri Lankans are low on the list is because they have the largest percentage of housemaids in KSA. There are 600,000 Sri Lankans in KSA, as per the stats from the Embassy, and a good 95% of them are housemaids. The rest comprise house drivers, labor, mechanics, and a handful of Finance/HR/IT/ and maybe, Masrkerting professionals.

I am aware that, in recent times, many top quality Finance Professionald from Sri Lanka are being hired by some of the large local and foreign banks in the Kingdom replacing westerners and other asians. Being a Sri Lankan myself, I know many of them personally, very well.

When I first stepped on Saudi soil in 1979 as an IT professionbal working with an American Bank in the Kingdom, there were only just a handful of SL professionals across tghe regions and I knew each and every single one of them, personally, since we had access to each other through the grapevine, at first, and then through the Embassy, when it was established, frist in Jeddah and then later moved to Riyadh. I have also known all the Ambassadors personally and very closely since the establishment of the mission in the Kingdom and hence have good access to the going ons within the Sri Lankan expat community in KSA.

There used to be an era, in the early eighties, when all of the garbage disposal workers in Riyadh were Sri Lankan, a good 5,000 of them all housed in a labor camp in Rawdah. At that time, the Riyadh Municipality had contracted the city cleaning contract to an American Company callwed M/S Browning & Ferris. My family and I knew the CEO and his wife of B&F very closely too and we used to visit them very often. Laborers were then paid SR 1,000 per month plus excellent housing (only 2 in a spacious room, NO bunk beds), plus food, plus transportation, plus free medical, plus free air tickets, plus one year contracts and NO levying of any charges on the employees for stuff like Iqama renewals and other Governmental doicumentary and legal requirements. The Sri Lankan Ambassador visited the Labor Camp, together with his staff and a few of us expoatriates, once a month, when a sumptious lunch was offered by B&F for everyone, accompanied by a Cricket match, Music, Entertainment, Drama etc all performed by the boys in the camp. They enjoyed the facilities of a gym, music room with all the instrumnents provided, a great cafeteria where sumptious food, fit for a King, was served three times a day. The boys enjoyed their lives here tremendously even though the work was tough, especially in the Summer heat of July/August. May I also place on record that it was duruing this era that Riyadh won the CLEANEST CITY IN THE WORLD Award. Thanks to B&F and the Sri Lankans.

Subsequently, local Saudi contractors started bidding for the lucrative contract and it was then awarded to Mawarid and various other local companies. They simply tore down thew whole infrastructure and brought the mountain down. Salaries were reduced to SR 300 per month, 3 year contracts, very poor accomodation, about 8 in a single room in four bunkbeds where one has to step on the other to get to the upper deck, levies deducted from slaries to cover Iqama, Air fare and Medical costs etc etc. The 5000+ Sri Lankans simply packed up and left.

They were then replaced by Bangla Deshi boys who are still here to stay. So you may put the poor Bangla Desh boys lower on the pecking list now.

However, the Sri Lankan community still has to face the stigma of being an impoversihed group on account of the housemaid situation which is still a thorn in their flesh. I have tried, in vain, appealing to all thge Ambassadors, The Foreign Minister and even the President in Colombo, to ban this evil trade. They all say the nation needs the foreign exchange that these poor girls send back home at SR 300 per month, some of whom are not even paid for months, and sometimes even years...
I still have my white paper which I have even submitted to the UN and several other NGO's and Human Rights organizations. No one cares tuppence for these poor innocent women, who after they arrive here and spend a few years in the sands become very evil and visiouis creatures that when they return home to their families theyt are virtually unrecognizable. There are many other com,plications and issues that also rise from this evil profession which I do not intend to elaborate here for the moment but I am willing to share my white paper with anyone who is intersted in readuing it and even acting upon it throiugh gtheir good offices, if possible. The document tellsd a story that would make you weep, forever...

Thats how bad the situation is. So very Sad, but true.

Amongst the elite professionals we do have some very fine men and women who work here and contribute to the economic growth of the Kingdom. I know most of them in the Central Region, personally.

There are also African migrants, who have come to live and work in the Kingdom since ancient times through the pilgrimage passage in Jeddah, and who have moved to all other parts of the Kingdom, who love in absolute squalor and poverty in some of the southern disrricts of Riyadh. You have to see them to believe their state. I have visited some of them on charity projects some years ago. Its bad, very bad. Much worse than the plight of the Sri Lankans and the Bangla Deshi's in the labor camps.

Hence, I repeat, once again, that its difficult to put a finger and definitely state that a particular nations is at the bottom or top of the pecking order in terms of status, wealth, prosperity and knowledge. No doubt the Caucasians do not come herte to carry garbage. At least that takes them all out of the bottom half of the ladder. Good for them...

The rest are here to stay on account of their needs and will certainly sink from rung to rung as long as the people in power want to make bigger bucks and live luxury lives on their blood, sweat and tears.

I rest my case!
Quo Vadis?

Very informational post, Musicman. Thanks.

Tell me, do you think this situation is unique to KSA?

The situ is certainly common to most middle eastern states as I understand it. There may be similar, but not identical, situations in the far east where many asian woirkers are employe as domestics and labor, Europe, where hundreds of thousands of refugees are flocking in on a daily basis, etc etc.

The mideast is unique in that it does not provide a human rights caring democractic environment and situation for expat workers to seek redress in terms of justice and fairness.

Most expats live on the edge of their seats here, not really knowing what tomorrow will bring. By this they easily get into many economic and social difficulty based on their financial situatioins back home and the liabilities they have undertaken based on the expected mideast salaries and perks.

Take my case as an example. I worked for almost 30 years under Company sponsorship and now have transferred my Iqama to a close saudi friend of mine who has given me the freedom to practise my private IT Consultancy as I please with no obligation whatsoever to him in any form. A great comfort and respite aftert 30 years of paid slavery, indeed.

However, heres the catch. I have to take care of all my requirements and needs with all the Governmental Authorities in respect of my Iqama reneals, Driving License Renewals, Car Registration, Medical Insurance, etc etc. He certainly provides me with the necessary paperwork with the required signatures and rubber stamps on his Company letterhead when I request for them. But, I have to go and get the job done at all these Governmental Departments, who only speak Arabic, whose demands for additional paperwork, authentications, proofs, "ehat I had for breakfast two weeks ago", is simply unending. Right now I am struggling to have my Iqama, which expires on Dec5, 20909, renewed for another 12 months. Under the new regulatory requirements imposed by the Passport Office in Riyadh, I have to obtain Medical Insurance from any of the predefined Insurance Companies under the name of my sponsor. My sponsor has only three employees in his Company, including me, and each one is on his own, just like me and we do not work for the organization at all. All the insurance Companies in Riyadh have refused to give me medical insurance coverage since I am not under a Group Company Policy. After much haggling with two of the big ones I finally managed, after almost 4 hectic weeks on the road, to get one of them to finally agree to give me the insurance, yesterday. They have promised to give me the card on Sunday. The Passport Office will close for Eid Holidays starting Thursday and when they reopen my Iqama will already have expired. Then, they will fine me for the late submission.

To add insult to injury, I cannot get the Iqama renewed by myself. I have to have it done by a SAUDI Muaqqib (Government Relations Person or Company) who has to be authorized by my sponsor. Usually Companies have these guys on their payroll who carry such activities out for the employees through the HR Department. Salman will be aware of that for sure?

So I have now obtained this letter of aurthorization, plus five Iqama Renewal Forms with photographs attached to them stamped by him for asll my family membners, from my sponsor, the letter has also been authorized by the Chamber of Commerce, and I will hand it over to the Saudi Muaqqib Company on Sunday or Monday depending on when I will get my Medical Insurance Card from the Insurance Company. He then will have 2 days to submit same to the Passport Office before they close for the Eid Holidays.

I have to pray and hope that all will go well next week losing sleep each night.

Let me add some more pickle to the story that will also amaze some of you "western" Caucasian expats about the way your Embassies do business in the Kingdom.

Both my grandkids are Canadian nationals and one of their passports expires in Jan 2010. The Embassy requires that we apply for renewal 3 months before expiry. I submitted the passposrt almost one month ago. They found some errors on the Form where a doctor had to sign in a particular box certifying the photograph of my grand daughter and identifying her as herself. Got thast fixed, lost one week. Then they called back again after another week stating that the childs fathers signature is necessary on the Form. My daughter is divorced since 2004 by the Shariah Court in Riyadgh and she and her kids are under my custody and Iqama since then, and we have been renewing her chiuldrens Passports with the Canadian Enmbassy so many timesd after that with ONLY the Mothers Signature and the Divorce Certificate which has also been CERTIFIED by the Canadian Embassy themselves. Tried talking to all the big shots at the Embassy. NO was the response. So my grand daughter had to call her father in Canada and ask him to fax his consent to the Candian Embassy in Riyadh stating he had NO objection for the passport being renewed. Phew! Another week gone. Now they tell me thatthe old passport has been sent to CANADA and will possibly be back with the renewal by next Sunday. I CANNOT renew our Iqamas without my grand daughters passport.

Please tell me what difference is there between the Riyadh Passp[ort Office and the Candian Embassy in Riyadh?

And you guys think you are modern, developed, and an advanced society on the planet? My FOOT!!!!

PHEW! I am so TIRED today......

And you guys think you are modern, developed, and an advanced society on the planet? My FOOT!!!!

I never thought that. I have my own bone to pick with the US embassy in Riyadh!

Good luck with your iqamas. I have experienced the frustration of this back/forth, back/forth, not enough information, think you're finished but WAIT there's more! back/forth, back/forth, time lost .. time lost .. waking up with heart pounding in the middle of the night.

...and we spoend all our time, on weeknds around the poolside, condemning, criticizing, and joking about how the locals treated us over the week or some other incident that happened in the Kingdom that evokes much laughter and fun...?

Interesteingly, the Sri lankan Embassy takes ONLY 4 hours for Passport renewals. I have also had them issued while I wait in 15 minmutes. So much for the tree climbers, huh?

Hassling is the name oif the game.....across the board

Dear sourire,

first of all, I am not here to make you happy to tell how these people are smart and well educated.

I am talking facts here ... so do not attack me please... because I have nothing to do against you!

Ciao... I'll continue tomorrow

sourire wrote:

To Desert Storm - again!

It might surprise you to know that some of the Shri Lankins in your country do very sophisticated jobs and are very responsible people and by the sound of your comments, they seem to be much more educated that you are.

sourire

I'm happy your letting off some steam Musicman.

I enjoyed all the posts, this discussion is getting more interesting than ever.

doesn't anyone out there have anything to add? or ya'll just a bunch of lurkers?


Salman

Yeah, this thread ROCKS!

Oh BTW, Today Nov 13, 2009 is the 30th Anniversary of my first arrival to the Kingdom in 1979 at Dhahran Airport.

I still remember that PIA Flight I took from Karachi after having transitted there from Colombo. There were some interesting happenings on the flight which I cannot mention here.

I was poicked up by a Sri lankan driver and taken to my residence in AlKhiobar. 30 long years have passed. Seems like only yesterday...

Lifes been good, Thank God!

In that case, congrats Musicman.

sourire wrote:

To Desert Storm

In my country, we have a saying:  The truth is often bitter!
Seems to me you find it so.

sourire

I just don't know understand why are getting very defensive here. I didn't even insult you?! unless you felt that!

look let me tell you this... I don't give a damn about Saudi nor Sri-Lanka (with all respect to all readers)... but it seems that you're from there and you got offended by a word of my comments.

if you think Saudi and Middle East is that bad... then why would you sacrifice sweet moments here! just simply skip it and leave!

funny part that is your wondering why would I say dark skinned while I am one! lol how then should I describe these folks that Allicat have seen in the airport? DUH!


bottom line... this is the last post that react to your comments because they are not adding any value to my life!

I guess it is a passport based sometimes, in other words, if your country's passport is powerful then you are one. I really believe that you are the one who push people whether to respect you or not...

I don't wanna mention nationalities here but I've seen some nationals from certain country gain respect while other close country don't... just simple because these people made you draw an image of certain respect.

In Saudi, the royal family is on the top of all in term of respect, superiority and fortune. regardless they are white, black, nor Asian. The Saudi ambassador in Washington DC for more than 20 year prince Bandar had a black skin because his mother was one but still get many privileges. 

Again, the problem is caused by the monarchy system that we have which stratified the society into these categories.

the different between Saudi and USA is that you people have a clear judicial system and you know your rights... but here is not the same... because the king override the system if he wants... and king's entourage can also use the power to manipulate the judicial system.

to me the causes are very complicated... ask any Saudi person... do you know your rights? lol no one does! it is not written so it is not there!

What I've noticed is that--and this is a huge generality, of course--the darker one's skin, the less skilled the work he or she does here.  And because of this, Saudi's have come to view all men from Sri Lanka as laborers and Filipina women as house maids.  This gives those Saudi's a feeling of superiority.

I guess you are relatively correct on this point. People here have sort of stereotype images of some certain people. but most maids come from Indonesia not Philippine.. just to correct the idea.

Allicat... I am sorry if you got confused because I feel that I have mixed my ideas because I am sleepy...

...and we spoend all our time, on weeknds around the poolside, condemning, criticizing, and joking about how the locals treated us over the week or some other incident that happened in the Kingdom that evokes much laughter and fun...?

Interesteingly, the Sri lankan Embassy takes ONLY 4 hours for Passport renewals. I have also had them issued while I wait in 15 minmutes. So much for the tree climbers, huh?

Hassling is the name oif the game.....across the board

Mr. Musicman...

you are one wise man... Thanks for your comments.

OK, I'll just add a little more flavor to Musicmans interesting post, I do hope he won't mind

I'll keep some quotes that would assist my point in even more of a breakdown of the mentioned classification by addressing the occupations of the mentioned nationalities. no offence to anybody just fer the record.

on a side note:
please feel free to add more and/or correct me in the following inputs.

Musicman's Original Classifications in Blue.

My Additions in Green

Musicman wrote:

One may further break down the classification into even more detail as follows:-

1. SAUDI
1.1 Royal Family
1.1.1 Rulers
1.1.2 High Commanders
1.1.3 Mayors
1.1.4 Other Key Leading Positions in the Government


1.2 Top Business Families
1.2.1 Key Positions in the Government *
1.2.2 Key Contractors with the Government
1.2.3 Owners of Multi Million Business Groups
1.2.4 Other Key Positions


1.3 Professionals
1.3.1 Presidents, CEO's, CFO's, Consultants etc..
1.3.2 Department Managers. e.g. Human Resources General Manager
1.3.3 Doctors, Engineers etc..
1.3.4 Other Professional positions

1.4 Non Professionals
1.4.1 Small Business owners
1.4.2 Government Employees * (not including High Ranks)
1.4.3 Private Sector Employees e.g. Receptionists, Security Guards **, Government Relation Officers ** etc..
1.4.4 Other non Professionals


1.5 Bedouins
[OK, break time!
how on earth did that get into the list?!
Royals
Top Families
Pro's
Non Pro's
Bedouins!?!
let me tell yall something, Bedou's are also known as Nomads in english. the so called Bedou's are already listed, cuz we didnt mention the Urbans and imigrants right? what I mean is (and Musicman you know what I'm talking about ) there are bedous in every classification mentioned above. even royals. D.S. (desert storm) classified Saudies into three right? CAN any one state that Bedous are not in classifications; 1.1 ~ 1.4 ? ]

I'm too sleepy be back next time to continue with the rest of the list, though I feel terribly silly doing it

Musicman wrote:

Job roles also play a significant factor in establishing the levels within the pecking order.

Musicman wrote:

Its not easy to create a serious top down pecking order since sometimes you gotta mix n match based on many other factors.

*  Government Employment:
The Government has its own grade system, starting grade 1 bottom to higher numbers all the way to Ministers and such. correct me if I'm wrong.
** It's funny I had to list them in the Non Professionals, but sorry folks, they are non professionals.

Salman,

Your categorization made me laugh my **** off lol


Bedouins can be anything but from the royal family because the rest is achievable.

interesting...