Has anyone gone through the simplified naturalization precedure?

SSSnoopz :

Your wife would neither be a citizen nor a permanent resident unless she applies for simplified naturalization herself (if she's eligible). But once you are a Hungarian citizen, you are entitled under EU law to bring your dependents (wife, kids, etc) anywhere you go in Europe. She will have the right to work in whatever EU country you move to.

The first sentence is incorrect - simplified naturalization does not give permanent residency.

Zif,

Can you explain what "the special two-fer rule for spouses under Simplified Naturalization" from 2013 is?  I have not been able to find anything about this, possibly because "two-fer" does not translate well into legislative Hungarian. ;-)  In my case, I am going through the process as much or more for my wife's benefit so this is of great interest to me. Thanks.

Willie

I know very little about this myself, just that I've read about it:

http://www.hungariansolutions.com/hungarian-citizenship (scroll down)

https://net.jogtar.hu/jogszabaly?docid=99300055.TV (the law, in Hungarian)

Thanks for the link, Zif!

I do not see this as meaning that my wife (who has no Hungarian DNA) and I can apply at the same time for simplified naturalization (which I might have misinterpreted you as saying...sorry!).

I believe I have to earn my citizenship first and only then can my wife start her own process (basically, just learning Hungarian as she would not have to gather so many documents). If we had been able to apply simultaneously, we would have been starting studying Hungarian in Budapest together.

Anyway, the link seems to talk about a 1993 law, while the original site talks about a 2013 law. I have written the language tutor whose site it is on to see if she can explain this supposed law. If she can, I will research it further.

It's the 1993 law, as amended!

You do seem to be underestimating the effort needed to learn Hungarian. Of course your wife should start studying when you start, even if she submits her application 9-12 months after you do. Of course she should.

Zif, I am 100% sure that I am underestimating the difficulty!  I am only beginning to decipher the basics of Hungarian grammar. Hungarian appears to be the Rubik cube of languages.

I apologize for asking so many questions but I have one a week before arriving in Hungary and I want to be sure to do everything correctly. 

My grandfather left Hungary in 1900 but he and his parents were all born in a small village outside of Miskolc in 1885 and before.  The record of his birth is digitized on the Internet but I understand that I need to obtain something more official.

Therefore, I plan to visit the church in the small town where he was born. Given that the town only has a population of 2000, I doubt they get many visitors from abroad. What exactly do I have to do to get a consulate-ready copy of his birth record? Does the church press some kind of official seal on the copy? Do I have to take the copy to some government office in Hungary afterwards?  Do I also need to do the same with the birth records of my great-grandparents?

worldwide_willie :

I apologize for asking so many questions but I have one a week before arriving in Hungary and I want to be sure to do everything correctly. 

My grandfather left Hungary in 1900 but he and his parents were all born in a small village outside of Miskolc in 1885 and before.  The record of his birth is digitized on the Internet but I understand that I need to obtain something more official.

Therefore, I plan to visit the church in the small town where he was born. Given that the town only has a population of 2000, I doubt they get many visitors from abroad. What exactly do I have to do to get a consulate-ready copy of his birth record? Does the church press some kind of official seal on the copy? Do I have to take the copy to some government office in Hungary afterwards?  Do I also need to do the same with the birth records of my great-grandparents?

I don't know about birth records from 1900 or what you want to do but I do know my better half (Mrs Fluffy) obtained a baptismal certificate recently from the church office where the ceremony took place.  And it had a nice "official" rubber stamp on it.  The church office might be at the priests house or next to it.  Usually here, even if it's not officially not needed, a nice looking stamp helps legitimise papers - old habits die hard in some officials' minds. 

Mrs Fluffy says the name of the office at the church you need is "plébánia hivatal".

Thanks, Mr. and Mrs. Fluffy.

I am now in Budapest. If one thing impresses me, it is the dependability of public transportation here. Wow!

worldwide_willie :

Thanks, Mr. and Mrs. Fluffy.

I am now in Budapest. If one thing impresses me, it is the dependability of public transportation here. Wow!

Yup, runs rain or shine, even in blizzards.   Relatively cheap as well!  Try Metro 4 from end to end.  Interesting stations and driverless trains!

Willie, I found so much information on this site I decided to give something back by sharing my journey.
I studied at a company called Hungarian Language Solutions [url][link moderated] and I think this was the best decision I’ve ever made. I had been in Hungary twice before and studied Hungarian at two different language schools. I did learn some Hungarian, but I think it was a complete waste of time and money compared to what I learnt at Hungarian Language Solutions.
Every time I travelled to Hungary I had to take off work for several weeks and it was difficult to set aside my life for these weeks. The course plus course materials cost around $1200 each trip plus airfare, train, lodging and food cost an additional $2000 each time I went. I paid this amount twice: first in 2015 and then in 2016. Then I read on this site that someone recommended Hungarian Language Solutions and I started their citizenship course. Even the language schools in Budapest gave me a lot of conflicting information about the Simplified procedure and they were not able to help with the forms. Renata of Hungarian Language Solutions knows everything about this procedure, she has an eye for detail and the paperwork she helped me with was flawless.
She told me that my wife was eligible too, but she could only apply once I have received my citizenship. So we did the course together over Skype, then I applied first. After I applied, my wife took one lesson per month in addition and got a lot of homework for in between lessons. As soon as I received my certificate she also applied and passed the interview – there were zero surprises.
Good luck to you and your wife!

I did enjoy my week in Hungary, even if it was cold and rainy every day but one.

I was able to visit the village church where my grandfather and great-grandmother were baptized. The priest found handwritten mention of them in the yellowing pages of some large old books. (I would have loved to have gone back another one hundred years but I will leave that additional research for another day.) He told me that I was the first person that ever visited and asked him to certify the birth of ancestors. This did not surprise me that much as the village near Miskolc only has 2000 residents.
Anyway, it was very emotional for me to see these records in company of my relatives.

I did visit five language schools in Budapest and liked two of them a lot. I found several textbook options in local bookstores and opted for Péter Durst's Hungarian The Easy Way. I am also kicking off my studies right now with a Udemy course taught by a young Hungarian woman living in Hawaii.

In my case, it does not create a great hardship to spend a month or two in Budapest as all the part-time jobs I have are virtual (online). Plus, the language schools and living costs seem very reasonable.  AirBnB offers lots of cheap, high quality housing, especially during these cold, off-season months.

I had been considering the course offered online from the UK that you mentioned. I might decide to combine it with a month or two in Budapest. I would probably want to spend weekends in smallish villages, as fewer people will speak English. Should I return for a month or two, I would go in the winter (unfortunately).

worldwide_willie :

....
I had been considering the course offered online from the UK that you mentioned. I might decide to combine it with a month or two in Budapest. I would probably want to spend weekends in smallish villages, as fewer people will speak English. Should I return for a month or two, I would go in the winter (unfortunately).

This is how the British Embassy train their diplomats.  They place the person with a family for total immersion in the language for considerable periods of time (for some languages it can be years),  It's been a tried and trusted method for eons.

Hi All,

My paternal grandmother is the daughter of a Hungarian citizen who gave birth to her in New York City. But alas, the record of her birth seems to have been lost and all we have is a document from the 1920's stating that a search had been made but could not be found. This document does include the names of her parents who were Hungarian. Does anyone know if the lack of a proper birth certificate weakens my citizenship to the point of impossibility? I know there's some gray areas in this process and wanted to see if you all had any experience.

Additionally, it seems that my grandmother was born after her father became a naturalized US citizen. I'm reading conflicting reports on whether that breaks the chain of citizenship or not. Does anyone have any advice on this point?

Thanks!

As you may have read here, there are two main routes to Hungarian citizenship.

Under the first route, Hungary recognizes you are and have always been a Hungarian citizen because you are descended from an unbroken line of Hungarian citizens. There are, however, often legal and practical difficulties establishing that unbroken line, especially when your initial Hungarian ancestor is as far back as your great-grandmother.

Hungarian citizenship law is complicated, especially because it has often changed over the years, and many factors can break the passing of citizenship in the chain. Determining whether you in fact qualify on this basis would require serious effort, and as I said, given the passage of time, it's hard to be optimistic about the outcome. Going this route, however, does have the advantage that there's no Hungarian language requirement.

Under the second route, Simplified Naturalization, you simply need to show that you have an ancestor who was at some point a Hungarian citizen. You normally prove the ancestor was a Hungarian citizen with a record showing birth on Hungarian territory. And you normally show ancestory with an unbroken chain of birth and marriage certificates from the ancestor to you. Oh, you also need to speak Hungarian under this route, usually taken to mean around B1-B2 level.

When there's a break in your chain of documents, as seems to be the case in your situation, you have to ask at the consulate or embassy beforehand what other substantiating documents, if any, would be accepted. (My guess, though, is that they'll be relatively non-committal, since the final decision rests with the relevant bureau in Budapest, not the consulate or embassy.)

If you do go the Simplified Naturalization route, you will take an oath and be formally naturalized, after your application is approved.

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