How to work in a Vietnamese environment ?

Hi Amelle

I'm just managing myself,but this is what I noticed in the years I spent here :

- The professionnal consciousness is something very new for most vietnamese workers : Well,in the past, a good work or just be present bring you the same salary,no plans for grow up. The people needing proofs to agree with the capitalist system.

The foreigners could take lessons from the stressless way of life of the vietnamese ("fatality mind") .The foreigners looking also too much individualists to most VN citizen.

To be efficient,the misanderstandings are needful : The weak points are then checked. And we must be able to forget the errors. We must be friendly with workers but not friends,they would not understand. The chief is the chief. So, cool,but hardened.

Have a nice day.

Hi Amelle85,

I have moved your topic on the Vietnam anglophone forum for better visibility.

All the best,
Christine

Hi Marek9,

I have just read your response to Amelle85 and I do not think it's kinda nice as in this point "...We must be friendly with workers but not friends,they would not understand. The chief is the chief. So, cool,but hardened."

We ourselves know there are a lot of shortcomings here in Vietnam for you as foreigners, due to cultural differences. However, like anywhere else we would live, just make sure we understand their habits, custom and culture to avoid or lessen misunderstandings.

Should we look at our own attitudes before judging something? :-)

@Amelle85: I believe you shall find some way soon :-)

Btw, I live near Bui Vien, Dist. 1, HCM, is anybody living near there?

Have a good day, Amelle85 and Marek9.

Well Nhung, I admit its look rude or selfish,but I don't wanted to write a novel...What I checked as an efficient way to work together is picked up from vietnamese managers with vietnamese workers... Its not a neo-colonialist advice. May be I should write : " An iron hand in a silk glove ", sound's better ?
Armelle should surely learn the vietnamese culture as I should but practically,will its help her daily and quickly ?
I swear I'm not looking down to vietnamese,or I would not live with them since 17 years. OK,next I be more diplomatic !
Bye

Marek9,

With all due respect to you my good man, I could barely make out the things that you are trying to get across in your posts here.

To be efficient,the misanderstandings are needful.  I take that to be 'misunderstandings,' right?  Where on earth did you get this concept?  I have always been taught that to be efficient one must steer clear of all misunderstandings, for clarifications will take time and energy.

The chief is the chief. So, cool,but hardened.  Is this how, after 17 years of being here, all you have is yourself to manage?  If that is really the case, you should write, "The chief is the chief and the Indian.  So, cool, but all alone." 

What I checked as an efficient way to work together is picked up from vietnamese managers with vietnamese workers.  Great!  So what and where are we supposed to pick up now?

Please, my good man, share your experiences with others to make them see better and do better than you did, not to confuse the living daylights out of them.  Also, please check your spelling of names and grammars the next time you write.  I certainly hope that you write better in French. 

You have a good day now, Sir.

Howie

Thank's Sir,I get it,I stay in my swamp.

Finally not. What ? I've order to hanging someone ? My english is cheap,well,I admit it.My german and vietnamese also,but I'm not the evil.Have someone noticed my defense of vietnamese way of life? Nope. Cause, since 17 years, I spent my time here as a shell on the rock,I've never done nothing. Well,well, its not that my tactless advices to Armelle are so shocking,the fact is that a cheap froggy should not walk on the lawn of the greenhorns...Can Tho...Hahaha

Could we please calm down here!!!

Thanks,
Harmonie.

Thank you, Harmonie.

Dear colleagues,
All my apologize to bother you, however, instead of talking about what is right or wrong in management...Do someone knows if there are any opportunities to work in Vietnam right now?

About that topic and trying to help Armelle (at the end...), I think that there is no perfect management ! Each person manages people as he think that is correct ! HR is really complicated and in the case of there is one and only one perfect manager, this one should teach to all of you and me, how to manage ! 

So Armelle, try to adapt yourself to your employees and try to do your best ! If you should be an angel or a demon, that's your own choice according to people which one you work and mainly, according to you !

My e-mail for any job opportunities : [email protected]
Skype : francis13127

Yours sincerely,
Francis

Hi Francis13,

My Irish friend got a job after I recommended him http://www.vietnamworks.com/?lang=2.

Just prepare a good resume then post on there or even apply for suitable positions.

I wish you best of luck.

Regards,

Nhung

The best way is to change yourself to suit the envoirnment. Why harbor your own perception? If thats the case, one shouldnt be in Vietnam.

Now in my twentieth year in VietNam and an employer, together with two Foreigner partners, of 35 Vietamese citizens I would make the following observations.

(1) We are discussing cultural differemces and not racial differences;
(2) There is a differece in being hired because you are a Foreigner who can bring positive changes to an organisation OR being hired to supplement a Vietamese work force to complete a task rather than implement change;

Following 25 years of technology starvation imposed by the Americans, the advancement of Vietamin the years since Bill Clinton abolished the stupidities imposed after the Americans lost their war in VietNam, is little less that amazing.

As a result both VN government and commerce is tied up with paper and inefficiency. If you have any doubts go sign up for a InterNet account with VNPT and see just how many forms have to be completed and information and photocopies you have to supply. Bureaucracy rules!

In taking or giving instructions, or even in day-to-day conversation, the biggest challenge is overcoming the Vietnamese habit of 'saving face'. By this I mean their prevalent habitn of saying Yes (I understand) when they haven't a clue of what you are talking about.

In communicating with Vietnamese it is essential to maintain eye contact. Ask if they understand; ask them to repeat their understanding of what you said. Always encourage them to question you, if they have ay uncertainty or confusion. Ask if they know of a better way to achieve the goal or, if you are being instructed/ordered to do a task - describe what you propose to do.

There is always the case where you might be hired to be the 'token' Foreigner to be able to imply an international attribute in the eyes of clients.

Vietnamese commerce is not noted for it's efficiency - VN companies always have an excess of personel. My company has 34/35 'productive' VN employees and a single cleaner/coffee person.

The VN culture, in some cases, is developed from some religions. It is essential to recognise what these are and how they manifest themselves in daily life. They too, have to be accommodated in work practices.

Generalising, I have found that female Vietnamese will work and work often without regard to the clock. Vietnamese men seem to fall into two or three distinct types - work until there's nothing left to do, do a task and then sit around until instructed to do other work, do nothing other than sleep on their motorcycles leaving the wife to bust her guts supporting the family.

Vietnamese tend to be very compliant (one reason the police gate dealing  with Foreigners centres on the word Why?). This means they ahve to be encouraged to do things on their own initiative and in a way they feel comfortable with.

If you want to watch Vietnamese ingenuity at work, visit District 10 where small hole-in-the-wall companies achieve technological success using minimalist techniques.

I have a couple of sideline businesses designing/manufacturing electronic motorcycle accessories and printed circuit boards and I took kits around to several different sub-contractors and after describing what I wanted done, I video recorded them using their own strategies to complete the tasks.

I then cherry-picked the best ideas and used them to write up manufacturing procedures. I learned a lot in the process.

Adverse conditions are accepted as 'fate'l watch a Vietnamese family whose home has been flooded out - it's just nature, just another burden to deal with.

There is, IMO, very little 'political' aspect to commercial life, unlike Peoples Committees, etc.

The old reputation that the Foreigner knows best is fast disappearing, along with the higher salaries such people enjoyed. The fact is that all people can contribute to the common good irrespective of their 'station' in life. No one has a monopoly on good ideas.

What I like about VietNam is the absense of the 'glass ceiling' for women, many senior positions are filled by women based on their attributes rather than sex or appearance.

My larger enterprise in DakLak uses a lot of technology but the employment rules and working conditions are strictly in accordance with Canadian practice. Small adjustments have been made to accommodate our staff's wishes and as a result we have an extremely high staff retention rate. English is the working language but Vietnamese is permitted as well.

Bro, nice post yo got there.

Hi all,

Thanks a lot for sharing your point of view, it helps a lot, sorry as I submitted 2 times the same post, Here are others reply too:

Hi Amelle85,

The first thing that I here noticed was the lack of punctuality.  I used to get very frustrated over that.  But, I later learned that is just the way these people function.  I am still not OK with it, I still try to encourage people to be more prompt.  But, I no longer expect it or get riled up over it.

The second thing that I learned was Vietnamese institutions do not select the bests and brightests; they choose the closest in their families or those of their best friends.  Call it nepotism if you will, but that is how it works here.  That little pug who is always late and, whenever he is around, doesn't seem to do much, might turn out to be the son of someone influential in the firm or government.  Before I get into contact with someone here, I made it a habbit to learn about his/her backgrounds first.  That way, if I can't make him/her go, I will know where to go next: the one who brought him/her there, then if necessary, the one who sent him/her there.

Vietnam is one of more dynamic countries on the planet.  Lots of changes are taking place.  If you are working here right now, you are right at the heart of all this.  Be patient, pick your spot, and grow from it.  Who knows...  You might one day be apart of something grand.

Last but not least, Vietnamese society is based on inter-personal relationships.  Discords are taken care of in subtle manners.  Never go-off on your co-workers in public; they will take it personal, and work will no longer be fun.  Like the pug that I had alluded to earlier, if he gets on your nerves, go-off on him at work will land you in hot water.  But, if you know the person who brought him there and, more importantly, the person who sent him there, ask them to set him straight.  If you handle things that way, you will see that this system is just as effective and efficient as the one we use in the west.  Vietnamese, just like all of us, don't like cancers. 

Best wishes,
Howie

P.S.  Which industry do you work in?

It is true that the work rules in Vietnam has many problems. However, it also has its cause. You should try to adapt to its environment. I wish you a wonderful time in Vietnam.

Last edited by HaiAmi (2012-01-10 05:26:23)

Then whats I should understand (in general) from your post:

- There is a "fatality mind" in Vn culture which impacts work by making VN stressless
- Collectivism is another strong characteristic =>  foreigner are considerated individualists people
- Management style in VN tends to be more efficient if autocratic or paternalistic
- "Saving face" (through the "yes",ect) should always be taken into consideration while dealing with VN
- Relationship are inter-personal even at work
- Communication: eye contact, do not hesitate to repeat or make repeat your interlocutor to avoid misunderstood, give explanations and encourage questions
- Religions and beleive background should be considerated and understood enough to make relationship better
- Punctuality isnt a must for VN
- Networking very strong, try check one's background and network before dealing with him/her

I'm working into  a position which is nor employer nor employee as I'm doing consulting, trying to impove proccesses and got a limited time to do it, which make it harder...

Nhung11281 wrote:

Hi Francis13,

My Irish friend got a job after I recommended him http://www.vietnamworks.com/?lang=2.

Just prepare a good resume then post on there or even apply for suitable positions.

I wish you best of luck.

Regards,

Nhung

Dear Nhung,

Thanks a lot for your e-mail. Unfortunately, I have already visited this website and I got nothing new. Maybe, all the foreign and french companies are interested and focused on the vietnamese workforce.

Thank you for your wishes.
I hope the best for you too.

Francis.

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