English in Vietnam

Both the Chinese and Vietnamese governments have recognised that knowledge of the English language is necessary for the advancement of their countries as well as their citizens.

But it is a double-edged sword. Whilst knowledge of English is necessary requirement for the fields of engineering, science, medicine, etc. At the same time it offers up understanding of totally different cultures, ones that governments find disruptive - particularly in China.

It seems in any new language situation most of the early words you learn to perfection are swear words. Unfortunately this is exacerbated in VN by the fact they lack hand signals that are common to other cultures the single middle digit in North America, the British V-sign (knuckles facing the recipient - a sign that has been used for hundreds of years), the Greek open palm.

Today's English vernacular includes, for many, the use of the colloquial term for intercourse in almost every sentence.

I have noticed a big up tick in the use of the 4+3 intercourse expression by taxi drivers. They are quite disappointed if a Foreigner doesn't react As someone who puts at least 2,000 kilometres on my scooter monthly, I get to meet a lot of taxi drivers who practice their 'English' - unfortunately for them I wear a video recorder that captures their efforts. Several became 'unemployed' after their employers saw the video's.

Many of the 'teachers' of the English language use it as a means to raise quick cash, similarly to getting a dish-washing job in earlier times.

Jut because someone has a facility in English doesn't make them a teacher!

I have met Vietnamese with very strong English Cockney dialects, Germanic and Australian accents which they use not knowing they are conveying things they have no knowledge of.

But today's older English student, in grade school is smarter and more demanding, Last year, in HCMC, an Australian physics teacher was terminated because the students couldn't understand his accent.

The ideal teacher, for Vietnamese, is North American followed by English.

The Vietnamese government requires that foreign teachers be qualified, even volunteers who make no charge, which has led to a shortage of teachers for the schools as their budgets limit funds available.

They do have some very good Vietnamese English teachers. There students have perfect grammar but both their pronunciation and knowledge of the meaning of words is often wrong.

I, and my two foreign business partners, teach English in our DakLak offices as we have the space and facilities. We run English and Homework classes every weekday night. As our work stations have three computers each, a total of over 160 computers are available.

I don't teach 'book' English, I teach 'working' English, the type of English you and I use amongst ourselves in daily activity.

Because of local politics between the ethnic Ede people and the Vietnamese (many 'imported' from Ha Noi area after the American War in VietNam) we have to be careful in our selection of teaching materials.

We use English language published in VN.

We have open discussions on any subject, except politics, and I find the students what to learn more about sophisticated English usage. By this I mean how words can be used in different contexts.

For example, the word 'quite' is used in England as a substitute for: 'I agree', 'exactly' or as a modifier as in 'It is quite cold today'.

We also include the European use of table ware (flat ware to Americans) as well as knotting a tie.

Foreigners have an obligation to correct VN English users, in appropriate circumstances. The use of 'so'  is endemic in the U.S.A  - Tim Geitner, the Treasury Secretary often uses it; another affectation is the Canadian use of 'Eh' as a sentence terminator. Pointing out inappropriate use of words, including that in the article, is very important, as it could affect a students employment.

Jaitch

It is great that you spend your time teaching the Vietnamese. I think the Vietnamese are very keen on learning, much more than the other South East Asians I know. It is partly because of the Confucian cultural emphasis on advancement through academic success, but also because of the eagerness of learning about the outside world.

Having said so, their learning (for many) is not practical and (as many things in Vietnam) without sufficient understanding.
Learning a language requires also learning about its culture and way of thinking as you said. It also requires understanding of the proper context and nuances. They still have not got it yet either by ignorance or by failure to see its importance.


As in all languages, how you say is as important as what you say. People also judge you from how you express yourself. Use gangsta speak, well then expect people to treat you like gangster.
It applies for all languages. I still remember the time I called the Vietnam head rep for GE (General Electric) 20 years ago. He was American but spoke perfect Vietnamese, so perfect that I must make sure several times that I was talking to him, not a Vietnamese employee who was answering on his behalf. Unfortunately, he was also speaking with a North Vietnamese accent and used liberally ‘Party speak' like a die-hard Communist cadre.  That made me instinctively talk to him like he had been a real communist.


On the topic of crudity, the Vietnamese language is unfortunately also degrading. I cringe whenever I walk on the streets where everyone seems to be swearing as a drunken sailor. Even in high circles of society, swearing also seems to be accepted to spice up the conservation or to emphasize a point. Etiquette and politeness are becoming rarities. Comparing to that, “Hello, do you like Vietnam?" may actually sound “Oxford-esque”

To the moderators of this forum:

Come on guys.
I have never seen such a strong "guiding hand" as this forum, not even in the Communist Vietnam.

I don't mind you editing out the silly ads and spams. Actually, I applaud your effort to keep the forum clean.

But in your zeal to do so, you have several times taken out innocent comments.

My quote of “Hello, do you like FUCKING Vietnam?" is actually a direct quote from the Economist blog from my original posting. It is supposed to demonstrate the ignorance of a Vietnamese student  learning indiscriminately from a foul-mouthed English "teacher".

By changing it to “Hello, do you like Vietnam?", you made my point totally meaningless.

Anatta:
In the forum business you have to remember whose sand box yu are playing in. Their sandbox, their rules.

One thing is that Mr. Google comes around usually quicker than any moderator 0 except for several fora moderated in VietNam where a moderator is online at all times.

Moderating is a thankless job, and you need a thick skin. And a lot of tolerance.

I accept your use/their deletion of the word in this case altered the jist of the story, I find a forum such as LP allows excessive expletives. If you know English you can deliver a shiv just as effectively.

Editing can be done in several ways. Outright post deletion offensive content deletion WITH or WITHOUT notations.

Yu made comments about North Vietnamese pronunciation, they also use different phraseology, as well  as using totally different words than the south. There are, i fact, many regional dialects across the country.

In my home town, Ban Me Thuot, there are quite a conflicting number of dialects. After the American War Ha Noi moved a lot of people from the north into the central highland regions because of the use Americans had made of the minorities, just as the French had done, Then there were the Ede and finally the southerners.

Even today you can detect the 'Hanoian' accent in the older people.

These regional differences are no different than many other countries.