For foreigners in a relationship with an Egyptian:

I appreciate your comments and advice. Thank you. You are right of course.

Dear ElaineCrawley  ,

I can imagine your story and how was it..also i can imagine how painful it is .
It is not the only story I've heard of and it won't be the last .
this scene is very common in Upper Egypt and Hurghada . I remember one guy dated one German lady and Orfi married  , he created one story as he had a dream and saw his father crying in his tomb ..innocently she asked WHY ?
he answered her feels hot in his tomb and he needs AN AC ...then they visited the Christian Cemetery as it is more clean and organised than the Muslim one close to LUXOR  then she withdraw-ed 4000 Euro for the AC .

GREED has no end.

ElaineCrawley  , it isn't your fault as you loved him it is the mistake of how he was brought up ( i'm an Egyptian and i have to admit it )

Elaine I just want to say you had EXACTLY THE same hopes and expectations as Amy woman who meets a man who is charming and makes her feel loved. Your also right in saying it doesn't matter if they come from a poor background . It all comes down to the person themselves and, unfortunately, this man turned out to be no good. No one who enters into any relationship knows at the start if it will work or not and you can never judge someone by how rich or poor they are. All you can do is follow your heart and it doesn't matter what people say to you you will do as your heart tells you but you will learn from experience.
It is sad that a kind person like you had to meet a nasty person like this man but put it down to experience and move on with your life.

These people who ask you why you got involved ....have they never had a relationship that did not work out? Do they judge someone on how much money they have? If they do then they live a very shallow life and I would rather be like you who doesn't judge someone by money or position.

You will find your true love one day I am sure and he too may come from a poor background or a low position ....he could be rich and own his own company but, at the end of the day, all that matters is does he make you feel happy, loved,safe and secure. If he does he is the one for you. Good luck in the future.

If a man love a women he will do everything for her and he will be the one taking care of her and he will be the one pay everything for her just to make her happy and to see her smile. I can't believe someday I can ask from my gf a money or to buy me something I am from saudia arabia and I am proud take care

The Egyptian wrote:

clairestrnad wrote:

It's basically something used by men with foreigners to have the "benefits" of marriage, if you know what I mean, without the responsibilities.

Dear Claire,

Allow me to add a little piece of information to this.

Your words are true in 90% of the cases.

But, let me tell you one thing.

I have madly fallen in love with a Ukrainian lady and we are now legally married.

When I went to Ministry of Justice (foreigner marriage registrar office) to check about requirements for marriage before she arrives in Egypt, I was shocked to find out that for many nationalities (all ex-USSR and Philippines included), she has to have a non-touristic residence visa in order to get legally married.

This has put me in a dilemma, because it would be too much money to apply for college for her to get a student visa, work visa is out of the question since I don't own a business or I don't know anyone who does and would do me such a favor, and waiting until she finds a job seemed like eternity, so I asked the staff at the Ministry and they told me I have to get Urfi marriage first. I refused at first but later on they told me you HAVE to.

I married her Urfi, she applied to her embassy for a certificate of non-impediment, which we later notarized from the Ministry of Foreign affairs, then we applied for a six month residence using these documents, we were screened by the Immigration investigative police to make sure it is not a marriage of convenience, then she was background-checked by the national security, and finally we had the visa.

On the same day she received her visa we headed directly to the ministry of justice and got LEGALLY married on the same day and received our legal marriage documents one week later. The whole process took a little less than one month from the day she arrived till the day we were legally married.


So anyways, for some cases Urfi first is a MUST. and it was a lawyer contract, signed and stamped by the lawyer, signed by two real witnesses, signed and finger-printed by me and her.

Maybe later on when I have time I will scan it, remove our personal information and upload it for you to see it. It is not like a hand-written contract to have "benefits".

clairestrnad wrote:

No Egyptian man would ever allow his sister to marry through the orfi contract, so your fiance should also not want this for you.

COMPLETELY AGREE. But again, read my comment above ....

clairestrnad wrote:

I understand that your situation is different, in that you're trying to protect your fiance and his custody of his children, but you have to be aware of the entire situation.  What exactly are the conditions of his divorce?  Does losing custody of the children mean that they would not be able to stay in the house with their dad, or that he would never be able to see them again?

Again read my first post up there. There is no joint custody in Egypt and the woman automatically gets custody, and even if the father signs off his visitation rights, such an agreement would be null and void since it's against the law as it deprives the children of their right to see their father and such an agreement is not worth the paper it is signed on !

clairestrnad wrote:

Even if you married with an orfi contract, there would be no way to have your visa permitted for more than a tourist would be allowed.  This means that the maximum that you could receive could be a year (in the event that you told them that you were engaged to be married).  The orfi contract does not provide any legal right to stay in the country, and contrary to what a comment above mine says, the orfi contract IS NOT the first step in the legal marriage process. The orfi is no where related to the legal marriage process, and is not required when getting married.  It is true that someone who marries under an orfi contract can later have it legally converted to a legal marriage, but it is by no means necessary.  I married my Egyptian husband without an orfi, and would never even touch a contract of that sort.

Again a few corrections here.

1- Urfi can be used to obtain a temp, one-time, non-renewable, non-touristic residence visa valid for 6 months.

2- Urfi IS first step to legal marriage for some nationalities (Pakistan, India, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Ex-USSR, Israel). I was shocked to find out about this discrimination since when I went to the ministry before my wife arrived in Egypt, since I went there just for reassurance about the process as I was there when a friend of mine married a lady from Puerto Rico (American citizen) 7 years ago and they did not need to jump through these hoops to get married. In our case we had two routes to go through, Urfi + Embassy Approval --> 6 month visa --> Legal marriage --> 5 year visa and citizenship application (optional), OR Urfi + Embassy approval (optional in the 2nd route) --> Go to court to have it legalized --> Legal marriage decree by court --> 5 year visa and citizenship application (optional). Route #1 takes around 1 month, route #2 takes around 6 months since courts are overbooked, so we chose route #1 to avoid overstaying the visa illegally.

clairestrnad wrote:

About what some comments above me stated about the Egyptian nationality, again, remember that the orfi contract is not looked at by the Egyptian government as being anything more than an excuse for a man to sleep with a woman and live together.  They would have no reason to grant you Egyptian citizenship

True about the citizenship.

I have a working visa so do I still need orfi or should we go straight to be legally married?  Pls help as I don't want to have orfi
.

Hello I just want to know the validity of orfi I have heard its only 6 months and if not renewed it will expired or null.. Is it right?

True

Hello esthernjuguna57,

Do you have anything more to add to this discussion?

In case you have not noticed, this discussion was last active in 2018.

Yoginee

Expat.com team

Hi I have been married to my Egyptian husband for 30 years and we have one male adult son 23 years old. I was too lazy to do the homework of totally understanding the Egyptian culture until 3 years ago and it is quite overwhelming.

Hello powelljoyce733,

Welcome to expat.com!

Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

Since you are new on the forum, we would like to know more about you. Do not hesitate to introduce yourself on New members of the Egypt forum, introduce yourselves here - 2022

Cheers,

Yoginee

Expat.com team

@Mimmo5 Why?  An American Muslim is just as worthy of respect and care and acceptance in an Egyptian family as an Egyptian Muslim.  For a real practising Muslim, religion should be much more important than country of origin.

@Mimmo5 Why?  A Muslim girl from America (originally) is just as worthy and deserving of respect and care as an Egyptian Muslim girl.  Religion should be the most important factor, not society or country of origin.  I was thinking about rhat today, and it hit me that in heaven, everyone will be there from every country, hopefully, and all treated EQUALLY.  Oc, I understand this fact will not improve the quality of (most) Egyptian men, lol!

@mydream Hi, and thank you for your input.  May I ask, do you have a career and help with the family expenses, or maybe even pay every time someone in the family needs an operation?  Thank you.

I was six years married with an beautiful and sweet Egyptian man. I met him in marsa alam in 2016. He was a waiter in a hotel in Port Ghalib. I took him to the Netherlands (he got permanent residence here) and he was so honest, sweet and took care for me all-time. He came very “western” and just didn't behave like an Egyptian man anymore. He have a beautiful soul and he teach me much about life and spirituality. Till covid19 came and we started to stay in lockdown. I got a depression and we sat the whole day in home. He also was not happy this time. But our relationship was still well. But it was a boring period and we go on holiday to sharm. After everything changed,  because i has made a big mistake.

While our holiday in Sharm, I was so stupid to fall in love with an other charming Egyptian man, who was already married and had kids. It was love at first sight and i felt a strong, almost spiritual connection, with him. He worked in the massage spa and visit him daily. He said he had problems with wife and was looking for a new relationship. Promised me to stay in sharm together. It happened two years ago. After 3 weeks of lovely conversations in December 2020, this new man start ignoring me. He later said he choose for his wife and kids and broke contact with me. I was so in love with this man, that it took two years to forget him. (i even don't know why) i think because there was something mysterious about him. And he was, but he had a lot of difficulties in his live and had a trauma of something bad what happened to him before . But he was very closed and shy. And i was bored in lockdown with my own husband this time. Maybe i was wishing to found some adventure.

Recently i met a lookalike in Sharm of this man. A taxi driver in a luxury car. But he also married. But he said he can marry a second wife. After nice conversations, 2 months long, he broke contact with me and choose his family. The same situation as the man in Egypt i've met before. I know i met two “wrong” men in sharm. Both married. With the first one, I was deeply in love and the second seems a “rebound” lookalike, to forget this first man from the spa. I was desperate after a long period of heartbreak.

But i spoke daily with my exhusband and he is still so sweet and lovely. He is the only honest Egyptian man, who is having the right intentions. He always respected me, even in the time i felt in love with someone else. But he warned me alltime for cheating and scamming men in his country. And he was right. We are now back together and if i had lost him, I will never find a man like him again.

for a moment i thought im reading my exact typical real life story...

We should hear from the men is there a different perspective

we can see this is surely a very dangerous path for all of us foreigners men and women

@Aya26

So true. But unfortunately most Egyptian families don't see us like this. They see us as 'that foreigner' or worst even, a visa for abroad. On the other hand, some Egyptian families aren't bothered even if their sons marry out of religion because for them, whats more important is to try and get money out of this foreign woman or try and get to her country.

I used to really respect Egyptian people from my heart but the multiple visits i made to Cairo made me change my opinion about them.

@sheetalpatel561 Sadly.  But, although I had similar experiences (mostly in Cairo, lol), I did meet a very respectful, helpful landlord, and he even went out of his way to make sure all his tenants (including one American one) had electricity and water.  One taxi driver even refused to take payment (and did not try to harass me, although most would also not try to harass bc of their job), and a store representative in Marsa Matruh even gave me a free pair of gloves (even after we offered money).  It really depends on the city and the individual, but sadly, so many have already lost their hearts to desperate need (or wrongly-perceived enmity of some nice individual who happens to be from a certain country, even though they may smile).  All I wanted was to help them, and I still want to help in a safe way, but yes, several took advantage of that.