Is it still possible to get NHR even if not able to move this year?

There is a long answer, and there is a short answer. The short answer in my opinion is no, unless the new Portuguese government after March 2024 changes the rules again.

Someone else may have a longer, different answer.

@elaranar,

It is not possible to get the NHR under the conditions you mention.

I've told you this countless times.... what part haven't you understood?

Wait for April 2024. If, after the elections on 10 March, there are different policies, a new party in the new government, NHR status can be discussed. Until then, it's not possible.

And please don't monopolise this forum with the same question in a new thread.

Thks !

@JohnnyPT

Thank you for your advice

Can you please tell me on what grounds it is not possible for me to get NHR ?

You just keep telling us that our plan to get NHR is not possible but you do not explain why it is not possible and on what legal grounds it is not possible

The new rules state that applicants for NHR must show evidence or proof of starting a procedure, initiated by 31st December 2023, of obtaining a Portugal residence visa or residence permit, with the competent entities

Surely if I begin a Portugal residence visa application on the official Portugal government website before 31st December 2023, that can be considered to be a clear evidence of starting a procedure for obtaining a Portugal residence visa?

The rules seem to be fairly clear so can you please tell me why I would not be eligible for NHR ?

And if I started my residence visa application next week on the official Portugal government website, can you please tell me on what legal grounds they would deny my application for NHR ?

Thanks

I'm sorry, but I truly believe that you're not playing with my patience...

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 76#5780353

(Post #12)

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 91#5804187

(Post #4)

(......)

A fortnight before the end of 2023? What do you think you want to do? The answer has already been given. Read it carefully...

@elaranar If you won’t listen to @JohnnyPT’s advice, I recommend that you seek urgent advice from a tax lawyer in Portugal who specializes in advising immigrants.

I expect that any such lawyer is dealing with many prospective immigrants with the same question you are asking and could give you a yes/no/“we don’t yet know” answer off the top of his or her head.

@elaranar

https://kpmg.com/uk/en/home/insights/20 … er%202023.

KPMG advice :

“However, the regime should remain applicable to taxpayers who:

Are already registered in Portugal as NHR, and still within the 10-year period foreseen for the regime to be applicable; and

On 31 December 2023 meet the conditions to obtain the status as a NHR and hold a valid residence visa on that date, as long as they complete the correspondent registration, as such, until 31 March 2024.”

taken from the link i previously sent

On 31 December 2023 you must meet the conditions to obtain the status as a NHR and hold a valid residence visa on that date. then you have until 31 March 2024 to apply for NHR

this is what KPMG say 

where did you read that starting the procedure for obtaining a visa is enough?

@Mydeliveries

Here

https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/20 … 3#comments

Procedure, initiated by December 31, 2023, of granting a residence visa or residence permit, with the competent entities, in accordance with the current legislation applicable to immigration matters, namely through the request for an appointment or actual appointment for submission of the request for the granting of a residence visa or residence permit or, also, by submitting the request for the granting of a residence visa or residence permit.

@elaranar

i couldn’t view your link, however i found exactly the same advice on NEWCO’s website 

since newco provide legal advice and have this same paragraph on their website you could call them casually and mention you've seen this on their site and ask what it means exactly 

if it is the case that making the request online is acceptable, you may still be required to for example print and sign and post a document in which case you’ll need a rep to do that on time 

@elaranar

You won't be given 100% guarantee, and I suspect the bets are heavily against you.

My best advice is to start an application - without spending any significant money - with the hope that Portugal government relents/u turns or reconsiders, or simply gives some leeway to others, like yourself, who have some type of application audit trail prior to end 2023.

Anything is possible with the Portuguese Government, and if I've learned anything since settling here it is that nothing is black/white and you may very well receive conflicting advice from differing directions.  It frustrated me, as I've always expected UK government directions to be unambiguous and detailed.  Not so, Portugal.

You can do most of this applying without physically being in Portugal at end of the application year.

Last bit of advice:  Be very careful of committing any money to immigration advice organisations, and especially lawyers...  There are far too many sharks out there that will gladly rinse you without delivering anything of value, despite their promises.

Best of luck, I can understand who stressful it will be for you as dreams are snatched.

@elaranar

i agree with slugsurmamates about not handing  any money over. I’ve had much too much money taken from me by lawyers here with nothing in return.

I only mentioned Newco because the same paragraph is on their website and i thought you'd be able to get it clarified easily (and freely) over the phone since its already on their site whereas i suspect most lawyers wont even know about this paragraph.

you’ve probably got nothing to lose doing the application as slugsurmamates said and then calling a lawyer to see if there is anything they can assist further with by the end of the year because the paragraph mentioned that you have to abide by immigration procedure and that might involve posting something over 

And just a warning

authorities dont always go by procedure. after many years im still waiting for something to be processed. they simply  dont seem to care

so having a lawyer who is aware and witness from the outset (even informally and unpaid) may help to back your case in the future if needed

@elaranar

Hi!

Are you an EU citizen? If yes, you can still apply, but need to move really quicly.

EU citizens do not need a resident visa to live in Portugal.

I have been submitting NHR for my customers this month. Most are out of the country yet, so if you need help feel free to reach out.

I will send you a private message.

@elaranar

Yes, this is correct.

If one you make arrangements for meeting a resident visa requirements that prove you intended to move in 2023, you can still be eligible for NHR.

    @elaranarHi!Are you an EU citizen? If yes, you can still apply, but need to move really quicly.EU citizens do not need a resident visa to live in Portugal.    -@Nia Queiroz

As far as I know, Scotland is not yet a member of the EU.....

@JohnnyPT

The OP said they were living in Ireland.

@Nia,

@elaranar is scottish, an expat in Ireland. See his profile. Hence the permanent reference to his son as EU citizen. So it's a "bit more" difficult to be NHR in 2023 .... the answers have already been given to him, but he doesn't seem to get it yet. I wish you luck in trying to explain it to him in your private message .... .....

@elaranar, @elaranar, A transitional regime for non-habitual residents has been launched for 2024.

In practice, the current rules will remain in place for another year, until the end of 2024, although limited to those who were already thinking about moving to Portugal.

The transitional framework maintains the possibility for citizens to access the special tax regime as long as they have already taken a series of steps related to changing their tax residence.

So, the regime will also apply to anyone who “becomes a resident for tax purposes by December 31, 2024” and “declares, for the purposes of registering as a non-habitual resident, that they have a” certain element that binds them to that commitment.

There are six possibilities:

Who presents to the tax authorities a promise or employment contract, promise or secondment agreement signed by December 31, 2023, whose duties must take place in national territory;

Who presents a lease contract or other contract that grants the use or possession of property in Portuguese territory concluded until October 10, 2023;

Who presents a reserve contract or promising contract for the acquisition of real rights over property in Portuguese territory concluded by October 10, 2023;

Enrollment in an educational establishment that occurred until October 10, 2023;

Who has a visa or residence permit valid until December 31, 2023;

Who presents proof of a procedure, initiated by December 31, 2023, for granting a residence visa or residence permit, with the competent authorities.

@jqnkjq,

Thank you.

OK, but as @elaranar is a non-EU citizen, he'll need a visa. As I've told him several times, he'll have to apply through VFS Global. But to do that, he'll have to fulfil all the visa requirements and/or presents a lease contract + NIF number + bank account ... can he do that in 15 days? ....

@JohnnyPT

Do you have any idea when the "decreto-lei" will be published, as it is not clear who will be eligible for the transition period until the end of 2024?

It's clear that applicants have to meet one of the 6 conditions specified for 2023.

But it is not clear who can benefit from NHR status during the transitional period:

- pensioners

- self-employed persons performing only a few functions

- people working in jobs deemed to have very high added value for Portugal's economy.

Thank you for your reply.

Best Regards,

@JohnnyPT

Why would I need a visa or need to use VFS ?

I am a UK citizen and my young child is a EU citizen

We both have EU rights

So we are both allowed to travel to Portugal without any travel visa, and we are both allowed to live in Portugal or in any other EU country as long as we have sufficient resources

So why would I need to use VFS when I can make a residence visa application directly on the official Portugal government website?

If you need a nif overnight i can rexommend a brazillian lawyer  he does it quickly and cheaply

    @JohnnyPT
Why would I need a visa or need to use VFS ?

I am a UK citizen and my young child is a EU citizen

We both have EU rights

So we are both allowed to travel to Portugal without any travel visa, and we are both allowed to live in Portugal or in any other EU country as long as we have sufficient resources

So why would I need to use VFS when I can make a residence visa application directly on the official Portugal government website?
   

    -@elaranar

You keep on using the wrong words and not telling the whole story. Your profile says you are Scottish so of course Johnny will say you need a visa.

What is a residence visa? There is no such thing, it's a residence permit!!

@elanarar

my previous message got wiped out 

crownportugal.eu might be able to help if youre still waiting for someone to validate your findings 

they are immigration lawyers, humble and helpful indian immigration lawyers based in lisbon who know the law very well

from my experience, they wont charge for phone advice and they seem to be well-aware of the ins and outs 

    @JohnnyPTWhy would I need a visa or need to use VFS ?I am a UK citizen and my young child is a EU citizenWe both have EU rights So we are both allowed to travel to Portugal without any travel visa, and we are both allowed to live in Portugal or in any other EU country as long as we have sufficient resourcesSo why would I need to use VFS when I can make a residence visa application directly on the official Portugal government website?        -@elaranar

BREXIT, remember?

Besides, it's irrelevant that your son is an EU citizen. I've told you that several times...

You can travel but you can't stay for more than 90 days out of every 180 days.

And to be NHR you have to be a resident in Portugal, which is only possible with a residence permit granted by SEF/AIMA.

And you don't have EU rights because you are a non EU citizen.

johnny the facts given by you are not disputed 

but according to transitional framework according to the advice shes found, its possible to apply for NHR next year if she simply initiates the visa application by the end of the year 

despite providing her with legal recommendations, i think she highly values your opinion and just wants to hear it from you johnny

the misery will end if you provide the validation shes looking for 

@Mydeliveries

Its very simple, if people follow the simple information given they do not need to waste money on immigration lawyers.

Johnny has given valuable information already. 

Well if you or johnny feels that you have given valuable advice then you shouldnt prevent the writer from asking the same question again on the forum - in the hope that someone else helps them

clearly the writer didn’t feel the answer matched the transitional procedure advice 

    Well if you or johnny feels that you have given valuable advice then you shouldnt prevent the writer from asking the same question again on the forum - in the hope that someone else helps them
clearly the writer didn’t feel the answer matched the transitional procedure advice 
   

    -@Mydeliveries

Use the quote if you are addressing to anyone.

@JohnnyPT

You are wrong in most of the things that you have said

It is not irrelevant that our child is a EU citizen

It is 100% relevant

And if you Google “EU Chen carer” you will understand why it is relevant and why you are wrong

I have the right to live in any EU country with my EU citizen child as long as we have sufficient resources. We have already lived in two different EU countries for over two years with our child on this basis without any problem, and the immigration authorities in both of these EU countries have confirmed our right to reside in the EU without any problem

The right to freedom of movement for a minor EU citizen child to live in any EU country would obviously be pointless if the parents of the child did not also have the right to reside in any EU country

So I have the right to live in any EU country, as I have explained to you several times

    @JohnnyPT
You are wrong in most of the things that you have said

It is not irrelevant that our child is a EU citizen

It is 100% relevant

And if you Google “EU Chen carer” you will understand why it is relevant and why you are wrong

I have the right to live in any EU country with my EU citizen child as long as we have sufficient resources. We have already lived in two different EU countries for over two years with our child on this basis without any problem, and the immigration authorities in both of these EU countries have confirmed our right to reside in the EU without any problem

The right to freedom of movement for a minor EU citizen child to live in any EU country would obviously be pointless if the parents of the child did not also have the right to reside in any EU country

So I have the right to live in any EU country, as I have explained to you several times
   

    -@elaranar

Jeeeeeeez No you don't!!!

@elaranar,

Great! If you know what to do, why come here asking for advice?  Try registering as an NHR in Portugal and be happy with your life in the country you want to live

@SimCityAT

Lol

So you should inform the EU as soon as possible if you think there has been some mistake

As I said we have already lived for over two years in two different EU countries without any problem 😊

@JohnnyPT

Well I thought that I had explained that also

The reason why our family do not move to Portugal and register as NHR is because of the high risk that our application for NHR would not be successful after we arrived because of something that we did not have or could not provide in the required time period in order to be accepted for NHR

As you have already said, you think it would be impossible for a newly arrived person to do all of the necessary things to get NHR, as it would take many months to get the required appointments with the SEF and the tax office, and many other things which are required for NHR

My question was always about whether it was possible for a person to GUARANTEE that they would be able to get the NHR acceptance by starting a residence application from outside Portugal before 31st December 2023 on the Portugal government website

The answer seems to be that it is not possible for a person to GUARANTEE getting the NHR acceptance in this way, and so it would probably not be sensible for any person who wanted to get the NHR to either move to Portugal now or to make an application for residence now

The reason for this is because there is a high risk that they would not be able to get the NHR after they had arrived in Portugal

Hi,

@elarnar

i note you say you have lived in two EU nations as the parent of an EU dependent child while you yourself are not an EU citizen. A European  Court in 2017 in the case of Chaves affirmed the right of a non EU parent to live in the EU member country of birth of the child. This does not mean that you as a non EU national  has total freedom of movement in the EU. The freedom of movement right resides with your child be he or she but who has to be capable of exercising that right according to the EU stipulations for residency. Therefore the case has limited application

Roz

@elarnar

To add to my previous comment to avoid any misunderstanding. Your child has free movement rights in the EU  but only if he/she is capable  of exercising them by that I mean as a student taking up an offer of a school place or they are of working age and seeking employment or as a retiree or as an investor /entrepreneur. If you child is none of these the case I cited allows you to care for them in their citizen territory.

Roz

@elaranar,

You will always need to make an appointment to SEF/AIMA and prove them  that you have sufficient resources to live in PT, have adequate accomodation and not to become a burden on the PT social assistance system and have a comprehensive health insurance cover.

EU website:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/r … dex_en.htm

    @SimCityAT
Lol

So you should inform the EU as soon as possible if you think there has been some mistake

As I said we have already lived for over two years in two different EU countries without any problem 😊
   

    -@elaranar

Then you are being and living illegally