Public transport

As you may know Public transport is for free in Luxembourg, admittedly it is a very small country, but no controllers, no selling of tickets, no ticket machines (anymore).Hungary is much much bigger, but for society and human interaction it might be good to follow.
Would be good a balance to make between cost and revenues. (Of course many people will lose their job, but some of them can go to the police and catch vandals I think).
Admittedly public transport is cheap, but removing bureaucracy would be good I think.
[email protected]

I was thinking about  that the other day. 

The German experiment of the 9 EUR a month ticket was a spectacular success. 

I've started travelling more on public transport myself as it just happens to be convenient to do that.  Not here though, only when I go to the UK. 

I used to rent cars there but they went insane on the pricing so I just go by train now.  Free trains will never happen.  But over 65, it's free buses everywhere there.

Over 65 and a resident in Hungary rides for free.

Did you ever resolve that free transport over-65 issue of being a Hungarian or EU or having a RP (Residence Permit)?

I thought it was only HU or EU for free travel.

Those with RPs not allowed? Maybe something changed.

@fluffy2560

The practice is:

Controllers don`t care who is above the pension age, they do not fine them.

Regardless what would be the de jure rule.

@fluffy2560
The practice is:
Controllers don`t care who is above the pension age, they do not fine them.
Regardless what would be the de jure rule.
[email protected]

Good to know.  Of course, they'd have to look at your ID to know how old you are.

@fluffy2560 My point is more that control is not needed, no sale of tickets etc. If everything is free, there will be a lot of savings in the overhead.

No one has asked to see my ID for awhile now...

Bummer!!

@fluffy2560 My point is more that control is not needed, no sale of tickets etc. If everything is free, there will be a lot of savings in the overhead.
[email protected]

Sure, if the government has the budget.  But I am not sure how much it would save if everything was more automated.  The cost of manpower will be the highest cost.   They could just do a flat rate set of tickets at low cost and use automated barriers to stop people entering and exiting without a valid ticket.  Less manpower cost and still some income. 

Statistically I expect the number of people travelling without a ticket on any metro/transport system is very low (other than those with ID requirements).  The fear of getting caught and fined is the way they police those kinds of obligations.

Be grateful!

I've started travelling again and I get asked all the time but of course at the airport leaving here - waste of time in my mind. 

Contrast leaving the UK via an airport - no-one checks your passport except at the check in desk.

If you checked in online, with only hand luggage, and have a boarding card then you are not checked until you are boarding at the gate.

@fluffy2560

It was resolved. P Transport is free if you are a permanent resident over 65 .

@fluffy2560
It was resolved. P Transport is free if you are a permanent resident over 65 .
[email protected]

I looked at BKV and all I found was free travel for:

Foreign citizens aged 65+ settled in Hungary on the basis of a special international agreement

Don't know if Brexit is a special international agreement. In this case, I presume so.

If there's a more direct link, it would be good to know.

@fluffy2560 I probably was unclear, one should see how much money is spent on all the staff supporting the public transport, machines, people selling tickets, controllers on the train etc. Massive, massive, I am just wondering how much will be collected. The balance is I think not be massive, of course some people are needed to keep order on trains or even buses, a few cameras will help.

Comparison is made with cheap tickets in Germany, fine, but still somebody has to control or sell.

Just for free is my message.

@fluffy2560 I probably was unclear, one should see how much money is spent on all the staff supporting the public transport, machines, people selling tickets, controllers on the train etc. Massive, massive, I am just wondering how much will be collected. The balance is I think not be massive, of course some people are needed to keep order on trains or even buses, a few cameras will help.
Comparison is made with cheap tickets in Germany, fine, but still somebody has to control or sell.

I would think the accounts are public and available online.  It'd be easy to see.  If I remember correctly, the rule of thumb in the public sector is that 70% of spending is wages/salaries. With a high level of enforcement/ticket checking, the staff cost allocated to that department wouldn't be more that 25% - just a guess. In Budapest, the enforcement teams roam the network. They are not in fixed positions.

They already have cameras on buses, station and automatic monitoring of vehicle locations. I live near the terminus of one BKV line and we see the buses parked or stopped there waiting until they are once again sync'd with the schedule. Sometimes they wait at the bus stop a few minutes to get back to the timetable. To me it looks heavily monitored.

@fluffy2560 Conclusion for me is easy, just make subsidies where they do not cost a lot (ie making public transport free for all, not only 65)

After my flight had been cancelled I had a look at the price of the trains, From Vienna to Paris with some change it would cost €89. Anyway I got rebooked back on a flight.

Ticket offices are closing because the technology is there to have ticket machines at stations and even on trains themselves. Tickets are checked on transport, but if you don't have a ticket you are fined heavily.

in Austria the price of public transport will increase by 3% because of the rise in energy costs. We can't complain because the last rise was a few years ago.

@fluffy2560 Conclusion for me is easy, just make subsidies where they do not cost a lot (ie making public transport free for all, not only 65)

Luxembourg is a tiny and rich place so they can probably afford it.

They already have some concessions in Budapest like discounts for students who commute. 

And ticketing are highly automated - there are ticket machines everywhere but not 100%. Annoyingly at my local terminus, there's no ticket machine. So there are no staff selling tickets. And much is online/on mobile phones.

One thing around here is that they've started talking about a P+R (Park and Ride) scheme. This would be at an out of town shopping mall area at the far end of the bus route. It makes no sense to me.  People want it cheaper and faster.

As we are outside the borders of Budapest, we need two tickets to get to Budapest from somewhere inside the village border.  So what happens is people park at a forest car park within Budapest boundaries to get on the bus there. Then it's just 1 x ticket (single ticket costs 350 HUF in advance).  To me it seems to be actually increasing traffic during the morning and evening rush hours.

We are dreading the winter. We've got one main road through a forested area into the village and a couple of roads out. These are in terrible condition with plenty of potholes. If they closed the roads for resurfacing, it would be absolute chaos. Getting more people on the bus would help.

They've had some other thoughts around transport here.

At one point they were talking of building a metro station (on Metro line 4) but they wanted the local government to pay for it.  Cannot see that happening as the financial burden would be horrendous for such a small place.  The route would have to pass under the Budapest hills so everything would be in tunnels. Maybe 200M+ EUR per km. No chance except with full central government funding.

The Budapest ring motorway (M0) is not that far away and they were talking of making access to the motorway within a few km of the village as part of the completion of M0.  But that's been in discussion for probably 15+ years.

I am keen they do something, mainly because it would increase the value of my house!

After my flight had been cancelled I had a look at the price of the trains, From Vienna to Paris with some change it would cost €89. Anyway I got rebooked back on a flight.
Ticket offices are closing because the technology is there to have ticket machines at stations and even on trains themselves. Tickets are checked on transport, but if you don't have a ticket you are fined heavily.

in Austria the price of public transport will increase by 3% because of the rise in energy costs. We can't complain because the last rise was a few years ago.
[email protected]

Oh, don't talk about cancelled flights.

I'm in an argument with an airline over a voucher which expires in November.  I bought a business ticket to LHR (Heathrow) via WAW (Warsaw) on Lot Polish Airlines way back in 2020. I used a UK credit card so I'm covered by the UK credit card laws (aka Section 75 claim).  They cancelled because of COVID and couldn't offer a rebooking. 

The thing is I've never been able to use the voucher.  They've made the prices of flights so high, availability so poor, I cannot use it.  Now I'm arguing for my money back with the credit card company.  I got nowhere with Lot Polish Airlines asking for a refund.  The killer argument is that the unusable voucher is no remedy to the unfulfilled contract (to take me from BUD to LHR and back).   

I phoned the card company and even though I complained back in September, got an acknowledgement and a reference number, they have no record of my complaint.  WTF?  So I had to start again!  And at the 11th hour.   

If the roads are icey we will use the bus for grocery shopping. Not exactly fun to carry items back home but safer then sliding around. Or rather having someone slide into you.

It's not practical to use a car often inside the city limits, traffic is always backed up.

We aren't even sure we need a car any longer.

If the roads are icey we will use the bus for grocery shopping. Not exactly fun to carry items back home but safer then sliding around. Or rather having someone slide into you.
It's not practical to use a car often inside the city limits, traffic is always backed up.
We aren't even sure we need a car any longer.
[email protected] Tassy

Out here in the burbs, we need at least one car to get the kids around, go to Balaton, Mrs F to get to work and just domestic matters.  But since mainly I work at home now, I don't really need one myself.  I can walk to the supermarket and I can always go on the bus for further away.  If we buy "big stuff" we can have things delivered but we get hit because we're not in Budapest, even though the border is 100m away from Fluffy Towers.  One thing which is great is that the locker box collection points are now everywhere.  They are an absolute godsend.

It won't be that long before I can take advantage of those free bus rides.  I think I'm going to use them more when that time arrives.

I read the other day that next year, 2023 the tickets for public transportation will double in price.

Not sure if that includes trains or just within Budapest city limits.

@Marilyn Tassy Admittedly we live in Turkey now, but really it also applies to Hungary I think, now we live from Supermarkets and restaurants, the closest Supermarket is 50 m (no alcohol, but all what is needed for basics), 4 more supermarkets within 200/500m, restaurants 10 of them I counted within a range of 500m (we visit 6 of them regulary), no car needed was the conclusion (saves quite a bit).

I do not like to go to walk (not so easy), but my wife does (market is there 1 km once per week and others on 1.5 km, but the famous one is on 1 km)

For the rest hairdresser, 50 m walk, dentist 10m walk, doctor 500 m walk. (I do not like to go one of them, although I am treated for shaving at the hairdresser very well.

Side note the beach (which I do not like to much) is 250m

Living in a village it is very different I think and a car is needed, but it also has its pluses (definitely).

Home deliveries in Hungary are possible and especially in a village one tends to have a storage room. Internet nowadays is not a problem.

Still without a car in a village is not too easy.

On Public transport in our village once per hour in either direction (Heviz or Zalaegerszeg), not too bad, still if one is older and has to do shopping by bus (not so easy, especially if serious shopping (hence home deliveries are coming in handy)

Some items do not spoil easily (bottled water, wine, whisky, cigarettes, pasta and even if not as good a freezer for meat is also fine. Having an own garden with apples, cherries, nuts, vegetables (I am not too good in names)

I read the other day that next year, 2023 the tickets for public transportation will double in price.
Not sure if that includes trains or just within Budapest city limits.
[email protected] Tassy

That's bad news.  it will hurt a lot of people and possibly increase traffic in Budapest. 

Using Google, I could not find any link to price rises.

I read the other day that next year, 2023 the tickets for public transportation will double in price.
Not sure if that includes trains or just within Budapest city limits.
[email protected] Tassy

That's bad news. it will hurt a lot of people and possibly increase traffic in Budapest.

Using Google, I could not find any link to price rises.
[email protected]

It was just a random post on FB about the price increase for transportation next year.

It was just a random post on FB about the price increase for transportation next year.
[email protected] Tassy

It would be good to know what is reported from say, BKV or reliable media company (share links). 

FB/social media (no irony) is not a good place for proper information. 

There were reports from September 2022 about price rises but nothing recent.

Mrs Fluffy cannot find any info on the Lidl vouchers.   Maybe it's only certain districts of BP.   Not nationwide.

It was just a random post on FB about the price increase for transportation next year.
[email protected] Tassy

It would be good to know what is reported from say, BKV or reliable media company (share links).

FB/social media (no irony) is not a good place for proper information.

There were reports from September 2022 about price rises but nothing recent.

Mrs Fluffy cannot find any info on the Lidl vouchers.  Maybe it's only certain districts of BP.  Not nationwide.
[email protected]

Social media is great for information if it is from the official page giving the information.

It was just a random post on FB about the price increase for transportation next year.
[email protected] Tassy

It would be good to know what is reported from say, BKV or reliable media company (share links).

FB/social media (no irony) is not a good place for proper information.

There were reports from September 2022 about price rises but nothing recent.

Mrs Fluffy cannot find any info on the Lidl vouchers.  Maybe it's only certain districts of BP.  Not nationwide.
[email protected]

There was a notice in the lobby of our building.

The next day we each had a letter in our mail box telling us where to pick up the vouchers.

Had to show address card and ID.

Maybe yours is still in the mail?

Perhaps checking for any notice online with your local city hall will give more info?

Official:

https://bkk.hu/en/tickets-and-passes/pr … ly-passes/

@fluffy2560
It was resolved. P Transport is free if you are a permanent resident over 65 .
[email protected]

I looked at BKV and all I found was free travel for:

Foreign citizens aged 65+ settled in Hungary on the basis of a special international agreement

Don't know if Brexit is a special international agreement. In this case, I presume so.

If there's a more direct link, it would be good to know.
[email protected]

Yes, the US and HU actually do not have an agreement BUT only 2 agents ever raised the subject with us on a train. All the other passengers yelled at them and my husband told them he had rights etc. As a HU citizen he said he has rights to travel with his wife. No big deal either way, I hardly ever use a train.

I know in the US it doesn't matter who you are or where you come from, they give a discount card t everyone over age 65 to use public transportation,

Just a few rule sticklers here and there in HU.

I really don't care but my husband hates to make a public display of arguing with anyone.

I say bring it on.

What sort of rights do perm residents have anyways? Reduced to second class people forever?

I know in the US Hungarians are treated just like anyone else legal or not.

Point being when these agreements were done they didn't even consider 3rd country people who actually retired in Hungary. They can't morally treat people differently.

In the US there is no need to have silly agreements, they treat all seniors the same, with respect and always give a discount to anyone of age.