Marrying a Vietnamese woman

roy little wrote:

Maybe a Notary Public will help?

roy little wrote:

Or the Embassy will have to verify - US Embassy?

I will have several of the forms ready next week, so I'll go to the Notary and see if he/she knows anything about a "Certificate of No Marriage." But from what I've seen from Notaries in the past, they don't know much beyond their area of expertise. But thanks for the suggestion - anything is worth a try! 

Vagabondone wrote:

When I married here all I needed was my divorce paperwork and the certificate of single status.

If I can't get all of the paperwork completed...  sent to the Secretary of State and then to the Vietnamese in NY (and returned quickly enough) I may have to rely on something like this. The good thing is, her mother has worked for the government and is currently in charge of their Ward. So it MAY be easier anyway. We shall see.

Vagabondone wrote:

Agreed all offices and employees are different but they all understand lubrication.

Yeah, I've seen this too. Just have to bring a little extra cash. 

Thanks!

Notaries in the USA are not like they are here. They simply witness your signature and verify with some form of ID that you and the signature are the same person. They know squat about squat.
You do not need a "certificate of no marriage" I do not think. I didn't. You do have to have your head examined for doing any of this. Five years from now you will wish you had listened.

Diazo wrote:

Notaries in the USA are not like they are here. They simply witness your signature and verify with some form of ID that you and the signature are the same person. They know squat about squat.
You do not need a "certificate of no marriage" I do not think. I didn't. You do have to have your head examined for doing any of this. Five years from now you will wish you had listened.

You may be right...  but then...  I'm 58 and have little money. So there is no worry about anyone trying to take money. And she knows I am not wealthy...  simply wants a good husband who will not drink to excess and will not cheat on her...  and will be a good dad to her kids. I can do all of this.

But...   we shall see. 

Thanks for the advice. 

Yes, they have a course here they all go through. They have this line memorized. Then they take control of your life. The money was not a n issue for me. But they take your life. I use to think they had some really lousy men....drink....stay out at night...play with buddies. I do not drink, play or stay out. But the control smothered me and there soon was not enough ways to escape. If you are a passive type man then you will do quite well. Looking back at all my friends who have lasted, they were all very passive. In that regard you could not get a better spouse I imagine if you are passive. And it is far more complex than all that. The cultural differences are so huge. This is my 72nd country and I have never seen it so different. But I was told these same things before I married one. I did not listen. Oh how I wish I had now. If your looking for a young women with kids to take care of you go to the Philippines or elsewhere. At least they have Judaeo-christian cultural values. We in the West are from a history that is predicated on those values.Where the man leads the family. That is not the case here.
If you plan on helping her immigrate to America it is a very difficult process and takes a great deal of time. USCIS starts from the position that your both lying. Always keep that in mind in all you do. Save all your flight tickets.Take photo of visits and family events, save emails. There is a wonderful internet site for this that will help you a great deal. Good luck. I sure hope it works out for you. It is certainly amazing at first. Every single one of them take the same course. The slightest cough at night and they will be up to see if your okay. If your away they will always say the same recited phrase " that they worry about you". Fort a bit you will think your being treated like a king. Then you will realize you are living in their kingdom and they are the king. And you will not have the right to do squat.

Well said DIAZO.  I could add detail but not necessary.

Diazo wrote:

If you are a passive type man then you will do quite well.

I am neither passive nor controlling. In relationships...  both parties get equal billing. This is what I learned from my parents and what I have told my future wife. She understand this, but still often defers to me.

Diazo wrote:

If your looking for a young women with kids to take care of you go to the Philippines or elsewhere.

Well...   she's in her late 40's, so she's not a "young woman." Buddhist, not Christian - so unlike American "Right Christians," she seem to genuinely care. The kids are great and I love them completely. I've met many of her friends - some English speaking - and I see no reason to distrust. I've been very lucky in that I seem to be able to judge people well - if we decide to stay in Vietnam we will stay. If we decide to move to the US, we will all go. I don't see any problems with this. And she has accepted this. And it also seems that MANY other Americans also have no problem with this. Could this be naive? Perhaps. But then if we were all so cynical, the world would be a very unpleasant place indeed.

Diazo wrote:

The cultural differences are so huge.

I don't see it quite that way. I have talked with her nearly every day for two years, and I can say that she has better values than many Americans I know. I'm also old enough to know that trust is not given easily - by either culture - and that it must be earned. The aspects of the culture are different than typical "American," but then I found culture within Italian families and Catholic families and Mexican families to be very different from what I'm used to. But this is one of the benefits of living in a multi-cultural world. There is always something new to discover.

Diazo wrote:

Good luck. I sure hope it works out for you. It is certainly amazing at first. Every single one of them take the same course. The slightest cough at night and they will be up to see if your okay. If your away they will always say the same recited phrase "that they worry about you." Fort a bit you will think your being treated like a king. Then you will realize you are living in their kingdom and they are the king. And you will not have the right to do squat.

I understand that this may be your experience...  and also the experience of some others. But I have also talked with those who have enjoyed it and are very positive about the future - some who have been living in Vietnam for more than a decade. We shall see if your cynicism is justified, but based on my observations and conversations, it is not. But I am committed to this woman and her kids - and since I have little in the way of money, there is little reason for her to lie to me. And divorce is not a very difficult thing from what I understand. 

Diazo, I feel sorry for you and your experience.  But I respectfully disagree.  If you actually had a good woman, you would be of a completely different mindset.  My father law is the king of the house in vietnam.  Does mom run the house, yes, but in the end, everybody listens to Dad, no exception.  Same in my home, my wife treats me like a king and all the pampering and control as you said, but when I put my foot down, she listens, no exception.  You have to be a strong man, if not, vietnamese women will not respect you and run over you and looks like that is what happened to you.

Great to hear a different experience than mine. And yes, I kicked her to the curb. I am sure when you get the tab at the restaurant , they bring it to you and you take care of it?

Megalodon wrote:

roy little wrote:

Maybe a Notary Public will help?

roy little wrote:

Or the Embassy will have to verify - US Embassy?

I will have several of the forms ready next week, so I'll go to the Notary and see if he/she knows anything about a "Certificate of No Marriage." But from what I've seen from Notaries in the past, they don't know much beyond their area of expertise. But thanks for the suggestion - anything is worth a try! 

Vagabondone wrote:

When I married here all I needed was my divorce paperwork and the certificate of single status.

If I can't get all of the paperwork completed...  sent to the Secretary of State and then to the Vietnamese in NY (and returned quickly enough) I may have to rely on something like this. The good thing is, her mother has worked for the government and is currently in charge of their Ward. So it MAY be easier anyway. We shall see.

Vagabondone wrote:

Agreed all offices and employees are different but they all understand lubrication.

Yeah, I've seen this too. Just have to bring a little extra cash. 

Thanks!

Aren't you in the USA, why would you need to pay extra cash to grease the wheel.

@colon
You missed the OP's initial post. He is planning on coming to VN to marry from what I understood. Might come as a surprise but grease helps here.

Certificate of non marriage isn't valid anymore. Going through the process at the moment. Had to get affirmation of marriage issued in my home country, then witnessed by a solicitor before sending off to be apostilled... And finally legalized by Vietnamese embassy.

There are other documents needed too, certified copy of passport, mentality test from vietnamese hospital..

Thats the same  plan for me also..
Some times ebtter to get docs done in home country then bring here for check and applications

MEGALODON - you are equating American culture with Vietnamese culture and the two are diametrically opposed. VN culture is something you know nothing about, and you know nothing of VN beliefs and behavior. Yes, you are naive. Your mindset is projecting American values and morality onto a person who has a completely different view of the world and about relationships. Last warning for you. Don't succumb to some fantasy you have in your head.

roy little wrote:

MEGALODON - you are equating American culture with Vietnamese culture and the two are diametrically opposed. VN culture is something you know nothing about, and you know nothing of VN beliefs and behavior. Yes, you are naive. Your mindset is projecting American values and morality onto a person who has a completely different view of the world and about relationships. Last warning for you. Don't succumb to some fantasy you have in your head.

LOL...   I guess learning about the culture for several years and talking with many people who've been there and KNOW the culture as well as those who have married Vietnamese...  makes me naive?

Thanks for your "last warning." I will listen to the many I've spoken with and have had successful marriages as opposed to someone who wants to think for everyone else and believes that they alone are the arbiter of relationships. It's good to be cautious, but IMO you are well past being cautious. Letting fear of that which you apparently do not understand dominate you is not a good way to live life. And as for me - at 58 - I tend to think I can assess reality pretty well.

Perhaps one day Roy you will remove that large bit of cynicism you have. Until then, you may be very unhappy with other cultures and life in general. Good luck! 

Diazo wrote:

@colon
You missed the OP's initial post. He is planning on coming to VN to marry from what I understood. Might come as a surprise but grease helps here.

No surprise, having lived here permanently for 11 years, I have a good grasp on how things work.

Hello everyone,

Please note that i have put aside some posts from this thread. Let us focus on the OP's initial questions.

@ schleger, any feedback on what has been said so far ?

All the best,
Bhavna

Each person has their own point of views on western and eastern culture. Each culture has its own advantages. And I believe everyone try to being good by doing good.

Diazo wrote:

Great to hear a different experience than mine. And yes, I kicked her to the curb. I am sure when you get the tab at the restaurant , they bring it to you and you take care of it?

Before we got married, I did not always pay, sometimes she would insist on paying.   One time I tried to cheat and pay, I learned my lesson not to cross a VN woman that wants to care for her man.  LOL.

I paid most of the time, but when she had extra money, she always insisted on paying or would buy an ice cream or ice coffee for us.  Now that we have been married for awhile and she does not work, yes, I always pay and happy to do it.   But again, my wife does not spend money, she spends more time finding ways not to spend or spend as little as possible and lets me know when I am spending to much.  LOL

If I remember, you had a bad experience and that is to bad.  Believe me, I know how lucky I am because being a foreigner, it is not easy to meet a wife like mine, most are already taken, VN men are not stupid.  second, the bad girls always target western men and trust me, VN women know that being sweet is poison to a man, they even do the same to VN men.  It is just that western men are an easier target and the assumption is they have money.  I got lucky, an educated, hard working woman looking for a husband and family, not a bank account.

GREAT! You are lucky man.

Interesting discussion. I personally disagree with all the arguments about religion or culture. Buddhist or Christian, it really doesn't matter as there's bad people in both religions. Western culture VS Asian culture? There's good and bad people on both sides. I really think the problem here is that a lot of people simply get married too quickly and are not aware of little details that should be flashing red. A lot of men here seem to be blaming anything but themselves when it comes to their marriage's failure. Heck, I am divorced from a Vietnamese woman myself, but I don't regret anything. She was and still is a great person. Finally, this week I saw this quote on Twitter and I love it:

"Marriage is the lottery, you're probably not gonna win, but if you win, what you win is so good that it's worth buying a ticket” - James sexton

PS: I'll never, ever get married again as I know it's just too financially stressful for me, especially when residing in Quebec, the only place in the West where prenuptial marriage contracts are invalid!

I think this is the quote of the day.   

WillyBaldy wrote:

A lot of men here seem to be blaming anything but themselves when it comes to their marriage's failure.

THIGV wrote:

I think this is the quote of the day.   

WillyBaldy wrote:

A lot of men here seem to be blaming anything but themselves when it comes to their marriage's failure.

Too many guys think with the small head and not the big one.

Seen so many guys go with girls who are total users, yet the guy is so taken with the pretty young thing on his arm that they loose all sense of reality.

Well I for one blame myself for the problems in my marriage. I knew she had problems and thought I could help. As for the religion issue, I never intended to imply their are bad people of any religion. It is simply that those from a judo-christian based country have it imbedded in their culture that the man is the leader of the family and carries the majority of the responsibility. Other religions do not have that same thinking. And I have seen many ladies here who have made great wives. It seems to me the majority of them do not come from the big cities though. But that is certainly a generalization. But threads like these always generate a lot of interest, and seem to be the longest running. Indeed, that was my first subject of a thread many years ago. And I think it was the longest running thread ever.

WillyBaldy wrote:

Interesting discussion. I personally disagree with all the arguments about religion or culture. Buddhist or Christian, it really doesn't matter as there's bad people in both religions. Western culture VS Asian culture? There's good and bad people on both sides.

I respect your opinion, but respectfully disagree that religion or culture doesn't matter.  Yes, and I have said it many times, there are good and bad people everywhere, but that is not the issue when it comes to religion or culture.  For example, I learned as much about buddhism as possible and about the family traditions and prayers.  Let me tell, my wife and family are so happy that I recognize and respect their religion.  I even tell my wife somedays, hey, we need to pray to our ancestors.  You don't think that makes a difference?  Your wrong.  My wife was so happy and thrilled when I tell her this. 

In addition, the year you are born is a big deal.  Sure it is an ancient tradition, but many VN still follow it.  Before we were married, my wife said nothing.  But 1 day I said, "you know, we are lucky, I am a dragon and you are a horse, we are good together".   My wife was so happy when I told her that and believe me, mom and dad were happy to.  Now, does it mean people always follow it?  No.  My brother in law married a woman who was not compatible by birth year and disagree with the marriage, but they still married.  Guess what, their marriage is not great and they fight all the time.  Guess what the family says?  We told you so, the 2 of you are not compatible by year of birth.

I could give countless more examples, but just wanted you to hopefully understand that these differences do make a difference, whether you want to believe it is up to you.

vndreamer wrote:

For example, I learned as much about buddhism as possible and about the family traditions and prayers.  Let me tell, my wife and family are so happy that I recognize and respect their religion.  I even tell my wife somedays, hey, we need to pray to our ancestors.  You don't think that makes a difference?  Your wrong.  My wife was so happy and thrilled when I tell her this. 

In addition, the year you are born is a big deal.  Sure it is an ancient tradition, but many VN still follow it.  Before we were married, my wife said nothing.  But 1 day I said, "you know, we are lucky, I am a dragon and you are a horse, we are good together".   My wife was so happy when I told her that and believe me, mom and dad were happy to.  Now, does it mean people always follow it?  No.

I could give countless more examples, but just wanted you to hopefully understand that these differences do make a difference, whether you want to believe it is up to you.

Absolutely. Respect of the beliefs of others SHOULD be universal - otherwise how can anyone expect their marriage to survive and thrive?

I am agnostic and my future wife is Buddhist - we've discussed this at length. I don't believe...   but I completely respect her beliefs and support her 100% as well as participate in the rituals. These are traditions and beliefs that have been held for many generations - if you can't respect this then don't expect the marriage to last. She is thrilled that even though I don't necessarily believe, I still understand and want her to continue her traditions. And from what I have seen - and what my (future) wife tells me -  the entire family is happy with this.

So vndreamer...   IMO you're right - these things DO make a difference.

Vagabondone wrote:

It is simply that those from a judo-christian based country have it imbedded in their culture that the man is the leader of the family and carries the majority of the responsibility. Other religions do not have that same thinking.

This is interesting, because my future wife has said that "traditional" Vietnamese ALWAYS follow the husband. The wife is usually in charge of everything within the house, but the husband always makes the decisions. Of course this is TRADITIONAL Vietnamese - many younger Vietnamese are apparently becoming more "Western-oriented." I have told my wife that I will not be making all of the decisions - I was brought up in a household that gave equal billing to mom & dad - and that's how we will be too. And she seems happy that I even just acknowledge that we will BOTH make the decisions.

It's also interesting that she still often says she must "follow" the husband in decisions. Of course, she IS 46 and not a young girl - AND lives in Da nang. 

LOL, my wife is 27 and lives by this tradition, but of course her parents are in their 60's and taught her tradition.

Good luck with "follow the husband" . "That's how we will be." Send us a message in a year ...

Cynicism will never be conducive to a good marriage.

you can't fix ignorance, just pray someday they will have the experience and understand.  No man is going to understand until the day they have the true love of a vietnamese woman.  As ciambella stated, it is a true partnership, but from the outside, it appears very different.  So be it, we have a beautiful marriage and family and I give her most of the credit.  My goal is to hopefully learn from her to be as good as a human being as her.  A gift from heaven.

Having an understanding of Vietnamese traditions and customs will definitely help with a lot  of Vietnamese women. My ex was from the city (Saigon) and she was far from being traditional but even her would insist on positioning stuff in the house following Feng Shui, she'd be so scared of ghosts and so on. Also, South East Asians seem to be in general much more superstitious than Westerners are. So it's definitely great some of you guys try to understand and learn and share their culture and traditions. Also, the thing I love about Buddhism it's that it's very inclusive and all Vietnamese I know will be very happy if you take parts in their 'rituals' even though you're not a Buddhist yourself.  I did a lot of Tet offerings but being honest I was just very eager to eat all that good food being 'offered' 

for sure, so many superstitions in VN.  talk about ghosts, no mirrors in the bedroom and our bathroom next to our bedroom, the door must be closed when we go to sleep, can't have the mirror reflecting in our bedroom.  LOL.

vndreamer wrote:

for sure, so many superstitions in VN.  talk about ghosts, no mirrors in the bedroom and our bathroom next to our bedroom, the door must be closed when we go to sleep, can't have the mirror reflecting in our bedroom.  LOL.

Haha, my ex wanted the door of the bedroom closed to prevent ghosts from entering. I kept on telling her that it made no sense as ghosts (if they existed) would definitely be going through walls easily. She still wanted to door closed, logic would not help

vndreamer wrote:

for sure, so many superstitions in VN.  talk about ghosts, no mirrors in the bedroom and our bathroom next to our bedroom, the door must be closed when we go to sleep, can't have the mirror reflecting in our bedroom.  LOL.

Yeah...  far more superstitious than most Americans. But at least I don't see it as being worrisome. In a way it's kind of endearing. And the Feng Shui...  many people in the US also believe this and pay people to come into their homes and "Feng Shui it."    In fact my Ex wife - not Asian - believed in Feng Shui somewhat and arranged furniture accordingly.

Ghosts...   interesting that my future wife mentioned ghosts just the other day - about someone being controlled by one. Of course she also said they were schizophrenic too. Oh well...  it's going to be an interested marriage.   

Many women and some men here consult fortune tellers for everything in their lives. Many live by what the fortune teller says. Sometimes resulting in death.

https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vietn … 77367.html

colinoscapee wrote:

Many live by what the fortune teller says.

Kinda like Ronald Reagan.   

vndreamer wrote:

for sure, so many superstitions in VN.  talk about ghosts, no mirrors in the bedroom and our bathroom next to our bedroom, the door must be closed when we go to sleep, can't have the mirror reflecting in our bedroom.  LOL.

A few things I know about the effects of mirrors according to Feng Shui:

- If any parts of the WC is reflected in the mirror, bathroom door must be closed at all time (the reason isn't complicated, I'm sure you can figure it out).

- Mirrors in front of fireplaces or stoves will create excess positive energy.  The word "positive" may sound good, but too much of anything makes life unbalanced.

- Mirrors should not be placed in prominent places in the bedroom for several reasons: the silver nitrate in mirrors creates negative energy that will directly affect people; light source from mirrors can disturb or prevent deep sleep, which in turn will affect the occupants' mental and physical health, etc.

- Mirrors opposite of the front door may obstruct or dispel the path of positive chi.

- Mirrors that reflect the bottom of a staircases or at the end of a corridor will emit negative airflow.

- Mirrors on the east wall will improve the occupants' health, on the southeast wall will add prosperity, on the north wall will help with career (or business) advancement.

- Mirrors (water) should not be placed on the south wall as south represents fire, and fire and water do not exist harmoniously.

In re: ghosts, they do exist.  I've seen them and hear them up close and personal many, many times.  I also know of people who are susceptible to ghosts, but as "controlled" by them, I haven't met one, only from hearsay.

BTW, fortune tellers and Feng Shui followers are not ones and the same.

Megalodon wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Many live by what the fortune teller says.

Kinda like Ronald Reagan.   

Not sure how RR came into the conversation.

Ciambella wrote:

vndreamer wrote:

for sure, so many superstitions in VN.  talk about ghosts, no mirrors in the bedroom and our bathroom next to our bedroom, the door must be closed when we go to sleep, can't have the mirror reflecting in our bedroom.  LOL.

A few things I know about the effects of mirrors according to Feng Shui:

- If any parts of the WC is reflected in the mirror, bathroom door must be closed at all time (the reason isn't complicated, I'm sure you can figure it out).

- Mirrors in front of fireplaces or stoves will create excess positive energy.  The word "positive" may sound good, but too much of anything makes life unbalanced.

- Mirrors should not be placed in prominent places in the bedroom for several reasons: the silver nitrate in mirrors creates negative energy that will directly affect people; light source from mirrors can disturb or prevent deep sleep, which in turn will affect the occupants' mental and physical health.

- Mirrors that reflect the bottom of a staircases or at the end of a corridor will emit negative airflow.

- Mirrors on the east wall will improve the occupants' health, on the southeast wall will add prosperity, on the north wall will help with career (or business) advancement.

- Mirrors (water) should not be placed on the south wall as south represents fire, and fire and water do not exist harmoniously.

In re: ghosts, they do exist.  I've seen them and hear them up close and personal many, many times.  I also know of people who are susceptible to ghosts, but as "controlled" by them, I haven't met one, only from hearsay.

BTW, fortune tellers and Feng Shui followers are not ones and the same.

My point wasn't about them being the same, but the fact that so many locals actually believe they must live their lives according to the teller.