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Obtaining residency card

Hi
I am half Hungarian and have recently obtained my citizenship certificate from the Hungarian embassy and my Hungarian passport and also a small card which is I think a residents card
It states that I live in London
Recently I went to buy a car in Hungary and they said that I have to have a residency card showing my Hungarian address
I do have houses in Hungary that I own so I do have an address
I stay in Hungary sometimes and sometimes in England
I was told that I have to have a job or be a student and be able to prove this if I wanted a Hungarian residency card
Also to show bank statements showing how much money I have in my bank account
Is there a way I can get the residency card so that I can buy a car ?
Thanks Greg

By EU rules, your car has to be registered in the country where you declare residence:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/v … dex_en.htm

To have a residency permit that says you live in Hungary you have to declare you live in Hungary, and officially un-declare you live in the UK. No (legal) way around that, that I know of.

klsallee :

and officially un-declare you live in the UK.

Others will be able to comment on this but I'm not sure you do un-declare you live in the UK. I know I didn't, I just moved over the channel :D

SimCityAT :

but I'm not sure you do un-declare you live in the UK.

Normally, one can not declare having "permanent residence" in two places at the same time. It matters for all sorts of issues, including taxes, registrations, fees, etc. etc. etc. Different national governments don't want to fight over where you owe taxes, for example. Or where you register your car. That does not mean you can not live in the UK part of the year and Hungary the other part of the year. But only one place can be an "official" permanent residence.

If one wants to buy a car in Hungary, but is not personally a resident, the option is to start a company in Hungary, and have the company, which is "the resident", buy the car.

SimCityAT :
klsallee :

and officially un-declare you live in the UK.

Others will be able to comment on this but I'm not sure you do un-declare you live in the UK. I know I didn't, I just moved over the channel :D

You are right.

There's no mechanism in the UK for un-declaring yourself from the UK. 

Unlike many European countries, the UK does not have a centralised registration system for people and it certainly does not, and never will have, an ID card system.

Raczgregory :

Hi
I am half Hungarian and have recently obtained my citizenship certificate from the Hungarian embassy and my Hungarian passport and also a small card which is I think a residents card
It states that I live in London
Recently I went to buy a car in Hungary and they said that I have to have a residency card showing my Hungarian address
I do have houses in Hungary that I own so I do have an address
I stay in Hungary sometimes and sometimes in England
I was told that I have to have a job or be a student and be able to prove this if I wanted a Hungarian residency card
Also to show bank statements showing how much money I have in my bank account
Is there a way I can get the residency card so that I can buy a car ?
Thanks Greg

As far as I know, you just need an address card and a tax number and an ID card (or Passport if not using your HU documents).  If you have the purchase contract for one of your houses, you could just use that address so long as you can collect the post.   They should have given the tax card/number previously when you received your documents (this might not be entirely correct). 

I cannot see why you need to show bank statements or prove you have a job.    Mrs Fluffy didn't have to do any of that when she got her car.   The only circumstances I can think of where they'd want that is if  you were buying on credit. 

You can always buy a LHD British car and leave it in Hungary.  So long as you are not actually resident, then you can drive it around 6 months. But watch out for insurance and the MoT (yearly test).  You could find your insurance cancelled if you fail to MoT the car in time.

klsallee :
SimCityAT :

but I'm not sure you do un-declare you live in the UK.

Normally, one can not declare having "permanent residence" in two places at the same time. It matters for all sorts of issues, including taxes, registrations, fees, etc. etc. etc. Different national governments don't want to fight over where you owe taxes, for example. Or where you register your car. That does not mean you can not live in the UK part of the year and Hungary the other part of the year. But only one place can be an "official" permanent residence.

If one wants to buy a car in Hungary, but is not personally a resident, the option is to start a company in Hungary, and have the company, which is "the resident", buy the car.

You can easily be resident in two places at once but you cannot use this to lower your tax bill by election on a whim so yes, you need a primary residence but this may not be all that important as it might seem. 

It depends if there's a tax treaty between the countries and how long you are in-country. In this case, the UK and Hungary have  a tax treaty.   

All that will happen is that you provide a tax certificate to the other side to show you already paid to the other treaty party with an adjustment if necessary.  It's treated as a credit.   Non-resident income is usually taxed in the country it arises in at a special rate.

If there is no tax treaty then yes, you would pay twice.

Some countries - USA/Philippines particularly - tax in those countries by citizenship rather than physical presence so that's a special case.  UK and Hungary don't do it that way.  They all use the OECD model which is 186 days in country to be taxable plus some other criteria.

fluffy2560 :

You can easily be resident in two places at once

No in the EU. If one has declared permanent residency in another place, then Hungary can deny your claim to residency in Hungary.

fluffy2560 :

but you cannot use this to lower your tax bill by election on a whim

Tax treaties are a different issue. One can be liable for taxes in a country one never has set foot in depending on one's business interests. But all treaties expect the tax payer to have only one primary residency location, and one primary tax location, which is declared their tax nexus.

fluffy2560 :

There's no mechanism in the UK for un-declaring yourself from the UK.

Do not get too hung up on my term "un-declaring". If you want a residence permanent in Hungary, then Hungary will expect one to not be declaring permanent residency in another country at the same time. If another country has no way for a citizen of that state to declare to that state they are living abroad is not Hungary's problem. But if someone actually lives in another country so that their nexus is in that other country, then declaring permanent residency in Hungary to get a residency card is basically a crime in Hungary -- lying to the state.

fluffy2560 :

Unlike many European countries, the UK does not have a centralised registration system for people and it certainly does not, and never will have, an ID card system.

Auto registration in each country is potentially a referential record of residency of a person in a country in the EU. So if one registered cars in two different countries at the same time then this is a record that can be checked for claims of residency, and possible fraud of same.

Note, of course, one can apply for residency here, even not really living here, but claiming one does. And chances of getting caught is probably low. But still not legit.

In case this discussion has gone a bit off track, I quote from the link I already provided:

Wherever you live in the EU, you must register your car in the country where you have your permanent residence.

You are not usually allowed to register your car in a country where you have a secondary residence or holiday house.


Residency and property law is pretty worked out. So having a property in the UK and one in Hungary, only one property (and country) can be the primary residence (where you spend most of your time), and the other the secondary residence (and country). According to EU regulations, quoted above, You are not usually allowed to register your car in a country where you have a secondary residence or holiday house. So one can not, usually, register a car at the Hungarian residence if the UK is the primary residence. Or vice-versa.

To me the regulation is silly. Why can one not register a car in a foreign country if one has property there. So you visit your second home for months, but have to ride around on your.... Bicycle? Horse? Lawn mower? But I didn't make the regulation, I am only quoting it.

klsallee :

In case this discussion has gone a bit off track, I quote from the link I already provided:

Wherever you live in the EU, you must register your car in the country where you have your permanent residence.

You are not usually allowed to register your car in a country where you have a secondary residence or holiday house.


Residency and property law is pretty worked out. So having a property in the UK and one in Hungary, only one property (and country) can be the primary residence (where you spend most of your time), and the other the secondary residence (and country). According to EU regulations, quoted above, You are not usually allowed to register your car in a country where you have a secondary residence or holiday house. So one can not, usually, register a car at the Hungarian residence if the UK is the primary residence. Or vice-versa.

To me the regulation is silly. Why can one not register a car in a foreign country if one has property there. So you visit your second home for months, but have to ride around on your.... Bicycle? Horse? Lawn mower? But I didn't make the regulation, I am only quoting it.

Let's not get mixed up about cars and people.

Plenty of people have holiday homes where they keep a locally or even a foreign registered car (<6 months). There's nothing wrong with that at all.   Registration of a car is a separate thing to residence for other purposes like tax.  What matters is that the car is registered in the state where it is normally kept (>6 months normally) and where it will need to be fully kept up to date paperwork wise (i.e. legal). 

As far as I know it's always been like that within the EU.

One has to be careful about the words "resident" and "non-resident".   In my own country, there's no official mechanism for claiming permanent residence. The only way is to get a job, work there, pay tax and live there with your family and therefore establish a pattern of residency which might infer "permanent residence". This is usually the wording of the tax treaty.  The tax treaty usually refers to centre of one's affairs in determining residence.   

That's a different systems to countries that have person registration systems where you declare residence - e.g Hungary.  In other places like Germany for example, having a place to live available to you (even a room at a relatives) is a major determinant on residency - people have fallen afoul of that multiple times. 

However, for cars, it's only at the moment of registration that any address would need to be established. That does not signify an actual day-to-day residence but ownership documents of a property could infer it as would an address card.  e.g.  here's my documents showing my address, here's my tax number, ID, paid my insurance etc and then that's it.   

If you're Hungarian with a Hungarian passport/ID card and driving around in  Hungary in a legal Hungarian car, registered in your name,  that cannot be considered a crime.   

It doesn't actually matter where you actually spend most of your time as it's the car that is perfectly legal in Hungary. It cannot be anything else!

Taking it somewhere else - e.g. back to the UK, sets the clock ticking at 6 months for re-registration.

As an aside, in my own country, there are no checks on your residence, your name, tax status or your legitimacy to be in the country to register a car.  You just buy it, fill in the form and the registration document arrives in the post at the address you gave.  Just pay the tax and insurance and voila,  job done  AND perfectly legal.

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