Paying a foreign CC in vietnam

MegVN wrote:

Hi, I've just moved to Vietnam to teach and I've secured employment, BUT they are only paying me in cash. Can I even open a bank account this way? I want to use the money I'm making here to pay off my Canadian credit card, does anyone know how I can do this?? I've been reading that transferring money out of the country is hard enough if you can supply proper paperwork, which I can't, but does anyone know  if/how I can make a credit card payment from here?

I opened 2 personal accounts at Vietcom Bank one in VND and one in USD.
I opened 3 business accounts at Vietcom Bank one in VND and two in USD.
Easy!

Transferring your VND money less obvious, but possible giving it to a friend who has too much foreign money and will tansferr the equivaent foreign money sum to your canadin account...

DELAFON wrote:

I opened 2 personal accounts at Vietcom Bank one in VND and one in USD.
I opened 3 business accounts at Vietcom Bank one in VND and two in USD.
Easy!

Three questions  for M. DELAFON:

1) Will Vietcom Bank allow you to convert VND to USD and subsequently deposit them in your USD account?
2) Will Vietcom Bank allow you to wire transfer USD to an account outside of the country?
3) You stated that opening the accounts was easy but you never said that you have transferred money out.  Have you?

For Ms MegVN: 

1) Do you have a contract with your school and a work permit in process?  If not, it may be difficult to open an account despite M. DELAFON's optimism.  It does seem to vary from bank to bank and even branch to branch so don't give up easily.
2) Do you have relatives in Canada who can make a few of your payments for now so that you do not destroy your credit rating irreparably?  You also might consider contacting the bank and explaining your circumstances.  They can be reasonable as long as you keep them informed.
3) As a last resort you might look into the "gold shop" method.  They work with money transfer services that are used extensively by overseas Vietnamese, or Viet Kieu.  If there is a VK community in your Canadian town, they may have the ability to deliver there.  You need a live recipient on the other end (they deliver cash) and may need the assistance of a bi-lingual Vietnamese on your end.

THIGV wrote:

DELAFON wrote:

I opened 2 personal accounts at Vietcom Bank one in VND and one in USD.
I opened 3 business accounts at Vietcom Bank one in VND and two in USD.
Easy!

Three questions  for M. DELAFON:

1) Will Vietcom Bank allow you to convert VND to USD and subsequently deposit them in your USD account?
2) Will Vietcom Bank allow you to wire transfer USD to an account outside of the country?
3) You stated that opening the accounts was easy but you never said that you have transferred money out.  Have you?

1) Yes. Done alteady several times.

2) Maybe, it depends; If not, I told you already what to do!

3) No need for the moment, but, I have2 friends who do it occasionnally and it works fine. I told you already what to do!

DELAFON wrote:

2) Maybe, it depends; If not, I told you already what to do!

3) No need for the moment, but, I have2 friends who do it occasionnally and it works fine. I told you already what to do!

Actually you told Ms Meg but we can let that go.  Here is what you said:

DELAFON wrote:

Transferring your VND money less obvious, but possible giving it to a friend who has too much foreign money and will tansferr the equivaent foreign money sum to your canadin account...

Hopefully Ms Meg understands but I find this a bit confusing.  Do you mean giving VND to someone who is returning to Canada and entrusting that person to deposit CAN$ in her account?   The main time that person would need to accept VND for CAN$ would be when the arrive, not when they are leaving.  Excuse my obtuseness but your solution seem difficult to obtain.

Several people on this board have commented on the difficulty of sending funds out of the country.  If your two friends have found a convenient way, perhaps you could ask them the details and relate them here.

I've not found a job yet that required me to get a permit, only one that is paying me in cash. I've googled the gold shop method before but as for someone on the other end who speaks/has ties to a Vietnamese community I'm at a total loss. So it's getting a bit frustrating. Could I not make a cash payment at a money mart, or will they be asking me where the money's come from or refusing me?

THIGV wrote:

DELAFON wrote:

2) Maybe, it depends; If not, I told you already what to do!

3) No need for the moment, but, I have2 friends who do it occasionnally and it works fine. I told you already what to do!

Actually you told Ms Meg but we can let that go.  Here is what you said:

DELAFON wrote:

Transferring your VND money less obvious, but possible giving it to a friend who has too much foreign money and will tansferr the equivaent foreign money sum to your canadin account...

Hopefully Ms Meg understands but I find this a bit confusing.  Do you mean giving VND to someone who is returning to Canada and entrusting that person to deposit CAN$ in her account?   The main time that person would need to accept VND for CAN$ would be when the arrive, not when they are leaving.  Excuse my obtuseness but your solution seem difficult to obtain.

Several people on this board have commented on the difficulty of sending funds out of the country.  If your two friends have found a convenient way, perhaps you could ask them the details and relate them here.

What I wrote is clear enough for me, my friends and is a bit confusing for people like you who not to understand, because they talk and write too much. The trick will last as long as it does not come clearly to everybody, and, to government ears in particular.
Obviously, it works as can be confirmed by your behaviors and comments. Thank you!!!...

MegVN wrote:

I've not found a job yet that required me to get a permit, only one that is paying me in cash. I've googled the gold shop method before but as for someone on the other end who speaks/has ties to a Vietnamese community I'm at a total loss. So it's getting a bit frustrating. Could I not make a cash payment at a money mart, or will they be asking me where the money's come from or refusing me?

MegVN, just make your cash down payments wherever you want.
This works fine even in official regulatory agencies and lawyers and companies, etc...

If i may chime in....

Both Western Union & MoneyGram will pay directly to any bank account that you stipulate. Simply contact your Credit Card to obtain the account information of deposit.

IF you do not have the appropriate paperwork to utilize WU or MG from a Viet Bank, there are SEVERAL independent Western Union representatives/offices in Viet Nam that are not attached to banks ( they are less "regulated" ).

On a flip side, if your employer is ONLY willing to pay you in cash, then something smells fishy about your employment. Keep in mind, that whatever illegal activity your employers participate in, WILL effect you worse than them if ANYONE is caught. Considering nobody is paying taxes in this situation ( You or them )... I want to express my distaste for causing the rest of us Expats to look bad for your behavior. Considering other Expats are trying their best to follow the regulations, YOU ( who i am sure know better as Canada has some of the same immigration & tax violation issues as the US ) are ultimately going to cause the rest of us to suffer the consequences of your poor choices .... "Thanks for that  ".

Hi! I was under the impression that WU would not send money out. Do you have a recommended location for a WU or MG that is not attached to a bank? Thank you!

I have only sent money out 1 time in my 15 months in VN because i was dumb enough to have too much cash in hand .... there were no questions, just the standard western union form, and there were no issues.

KEEP IN MIND: Western Union will flag you if you send money to YOURSELF! My advice was specifically to send to a credit card company or another person.

As for finding a location ... "Google Map View" and do a search "Western Union Near Me" .... simply ignore the ones that are located at the same marker as a bank.

Thanks JayJones, your explanation makes sense.

In general, Vietnam is not the place to send money from, easily or conventionally.

If you want that, it's better to teach in Japan or S. Korea.

JayJones wrote:

On a flip side, if your employer is ONLY willing to pay you in cash, then something smells fishy about your employment. Keep in mind, that whatever illegal activity your employers participate in, WILL effect you worse than them if ANYONE is caught. Considering nobody is paying taxes in this situation ( You or them )... I want to express my distaste for causing the rest of us Expats to look bad for your behavior. Considering other Expats are trying their best to follow the regulations, YOU ( who i am sure know better as Canada has some of the same immigration & tax violation issues as the US ) are ultimately going to cause the rest of us to suffer the consequences of your poor choices .... "Thanks for that  ".

Considering that there are thousands of ESL teachers who operate without WP and probably nearly as many who are paid cash, maybe we shouldn't be too quick to condemn her as she recently arrived in the country and has already seen some of the problems with her employer.   Perhaps she will move on once she gets settled in.  I don't think we could even count the number of posts on this forum that have, I believe improperly, told people without degrees to come to Vietnam even if they don't meet the legal requirements.  To my mind that is just as improper.  It's not like she sought out a no tax deal.  She took what was given to her.  Although you are right that as a foreigner, she would be the one to suffer in a crackdown, her employer is the one that is primarily responsible in the moral if not the legal sense.  Non payment of taxes seems endemic in Vietnamese society, so it is no wonder that some schools work that way.

Paying taxes is an obligation of EVERYONE to the nation they reside in ( citizen or not )... I can't recall a single nation that does not have an income tax in some format or another. What the locals so commonly do ( tax cheating ) is no concern of mine. However, in terms of Expats ESPECIALLY from developed nations, it is "KNOWN" what taxes are used for, and that they are "COMMON"....

Even in terms of adding all of the ESL teachers income tax together, which does not amount of a drop in a bucket of VNs operating budget ... it still spells out "Ethical & Legal" theft of the citizens.

We can not "DEMAND" standards from businesses that we actively participate in bypassing obligations. There is absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION for such behavior. If we tolerate Expats cheating, how can we ethically judge Viets from cheating us? System changes come about because we change our own behavior.

Just think about the 45+ nations facing large scale immigration problems, and all of those who are complaining about how "immigrants took our jobs, collect on domestic services, yet do not pay taxes" ( sound like anyone on this topic? )

In terms of Canada taxation which does not tax its nationals on foreign soil, the entire concept is just 100% income for that person with 0 liability, obligations, & responsibility to the Host Nation, or the Home Nation.

Just because an action is common, does not make it ethical.

Give it a rest. Start a new thread if it offends you so much.

Its not about "offense" ... its literally about "double standards".

How can WE as expats complain about the unjust to us, when we ourselves are guilty of the same actions?

You mean like when you paid money to bypass lines for your visa.

Dont cast stones unless you have an unblemished history of doing things legally.

You should run for a government post. I'm sure Vietnam needs more of a righteous pompous expat like yourself.

paying money to "skip a line" is not "illegal" it is simply "unethical"....

However, when I skipped a line, I was skipping Australians ( 48 of them [ as best i could count] ) on a tour bus. At best, I robbed that tour bus of approximately 40 seconds of their departure time. The ramifications of which only caused harm to reputation ( mine ).

However, failing to pay taxes ( no matter how minuscule ) robs street maintenance, school funding ( a big pet peeve ), blah blah, just to name a few, causes harm to ( THEM ).

Not only will I pass judgment, If i am capable of finding the employer, I would be the first in line to report the "Crime".

JayJones, thanks for the information. Hopefully it works out. I will ask her to check some WUs around and go from there.

You paid a bribe to attain something. You may not realise it, but bribes are illegal here in Viet Nam.

You sound like a fun guy to be around.

Read my introduction! What do you think "US Department of State" is?

Please state the exact Section of VN Penal code that forbids bribery:

Then, take that code, and paste the Vietnamese Definition of "bribery".

Since you are claiming to subject definitions ... allow me to assist you:

Bribery is described, and defined in Article 364 of the viet penal code as such:

offering or giving bribes (directly or through intermediaries), being money, property or other benefits valued at VND two million or more; or non-material interests, in return for the recipient (not) doing something ( from the payee perspective )

Now, go to Moc Bai, and see what the "rate" of service is. 150.000 VND.

Now compare that to "VIP Services" at the airports. Hmmmmm ... you are literally subjecting word terminology that does not apply, and then completely ignoring what they call "Express Services".

Not even by definition is it illegal, nor is it selective, as anyone willing to pay for "Express Service" ( Their words / terminology ), is offered the same "service".

Funny you never mentionded the "express service" in your original post. Funny its taken you this long to reveal that.

JayJones wrote:

Paying taxes is an obligation of EVERYONE to the nation they reside in ( citizen or not )... I can't recall a single nation that does not have an income tax in some format or another.

Actually there are ten. https://www.fool.com/investing/general/ … taxes.aspx

JayJones wrote:

Read my introduction! What do you think "US Department of State" is?

Are we supposed to be impressed?

JayJones wrote:

Please state the exact Section of VN Penal code that forbids bribery:

Then, take that code, and paste the Vietnamese Definition of "bribery".

Please state the exact section of the VN tax statutes that demands payment of income taxes.  We all know it exists just like we all know there are laws against bribery.  You seem to expect us to accept your sweeping condemnations at face value then demand "chapter and verse" from others.

Again, what you/they define "express / VIP" service is in my view "Skipping in line" ( did we not learn this in kindergarten? )

What did you think "Express / VIP" service meant at the airport when you arrived? You still have to get a stamp, you still get your bags checked, you still have to pay any fines, or obligations required which is the same as everyone else .... you simply are the 1st in que ( unless someone else pays more than you )

You are literally attempting to justify "ethics" of line skipping compared to ILLEGAL activity of AVOIDING TAXES ( defined and regulated by every nation ). Robbing your own people/nation is your choice ( and is only debatable in terms of ethics by your own people/nation ), Robbing other people/nation AS AN EXPAT is completely unacceptable, as it ALSO reflects badly on the rest of us in this Forum.

Is this nutter for real.

Im outta here, this guy is a complete bullshi##er.

United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar .... ALL have income tax.  I am unaware of the others, as I have never been there.

Keep in mind, that they ( and many Arab nations do it ) transfer the "personal income tax" to the "employer" ... this is why you see a higher "corp tax" in most middle eastern nations. Also, this same applies in terms of immigration laws with tax for immigration in VN, and should help people understand why an Immigrant is sort of at the mercy of the employer ( They are required of the action, while you are the one punished ).

As for Vietnam Law of Tax .... which articles depend on what specific quotation you are seeking:
Articles 153 - 160, 164, 193 -196, 230, 232, 233, 236, 238 ( you are free to google search ) because it gets VERY complicated, and there are several English versions available ( not necessarily translated similarly )


Who said anything about being "impressed" .... He stated "I should run for government post", I simply showed where he missed my words.

Say what you like about "nutter" and "bullcrapper" ... at the end of the day, you have attempted to "JUSTIFY" illegal activity that as you have admitted is "Everyone knows these laws exist", by attempting to discredit me ( Forget logic, the facts are simply not on your side ).

In terms of reputation ... HOW can you possibly tolerate ANY Immigrant from ANY nation to commit an illegal act? As I have stated, this comes down to a "double standard". And i will even phrase it in a way you can understand: Would you tolerate an immigrant coming to your nation, and avoiding taxes? Would you tolerate a business illegally implying an immigrant from another nation?

You simply have to pick a side, Either you are purely supportive of illegal activity, or you are not. BUT you can not "Selectively" apply your ethic.

THIGV wrote:

Actually there are ten. https://www.fool.com/investing/general/ … taxes.aspx

AFAIK, there are 16 -- the list failed to mention these 6 countries:   Monaco, Andorra, BVI, T&C, St. Barts, and Vanuatu.

Wow ... do you not read?

Corp Tax ( includes the "personal Income Tax") ... My "exact words" were "In some form or another". Shall I break it down for you what that means?

Lets say Corp tax rates in region/state are 7% ( hypothetically ) ..... The labor board of that state will increase the rate up a few percentages to cap it 3% which totals 10%.

Above example is Qatar base. In such cases ( again we are speaking specifically of middle eastern regions ), its usually a more beneficial for the government to obtain this percentage as it ends up totaling a higher revenue for the government. %3 of profit is going to usually be higher than say 18% of a 40 hour work week per person.

Nice "Misquote" attempt .... Tax is still tax, no matter how you try to word the "type" or "method" by which a tax is collected.

I hope you will be just as willing to rant incessantly the next time someone tells a prospective teacher who does not have a degree that they should come to Vietnam and teach anyway.

Additionally, do you understand the difference between "run for a government post" and working for the government?  The former is a British way of saying run for election while the other is a civil service or contract job as you lay claim to.  Given your extensive years with State and overseas postings, I am surprised that you don't know the idiom.

THIGV wrote:

I hope you will be just as willing to rant incessantly the next time someone tells a prospective teacher who does not have a degree that they should come to Vietnam and teach anyway.

Simple response .... YES.... NEVER instruct a person to do something "ILLEGALLY".

THIGV wrote:

Additionally, do you understand the difference between "run for a government post" and working for the government?  The former is a British way of saying run for election while the other is a civil service or contract job as you lay claim to.

"Run" has many terms ... "Why are you quoting British" when your profile claims American? DOS are never "elected". they are "appointed" .... they do however "request" a "post" or "Station".

THIGV wrote:

Given your extensive years with State and overseas postings, I am surprised that you don't know the idiom.

Yet here you used the American terminology ?  It also not an "idiom" .... ever heard of the term "Abandoning Post" ?

What proof do you require of my work history since you seem so hell bent on focusing on it? W2 form? Would you be willing to share yours in exchange? Care to meet in person to view a "Black Passport" ?

Since you guys seem to keep trying to navigate away from the Topic .... Ill repeat it ...
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE is there any way to "JUSTIFY" illegal activity. NOBODY should be promoting or encouraging ILLEGAL ACTIVITY.

This is far beyond reason.  I should have left when you told Ciambella, one of the most cordial and helpful people on this forum, "Wow ... do you not read?"  I am out of here.  You will have no further replies from me.

What "REASON" did you expect when people are "commonly" supporting the idea that "illegal activity" should be condoned ???

Think about how "exposed" the original poster is now .... There are literally people "justifying" working without a work permit ... if ANYONE ( Employee / Employer ) is caught, the EXPAT will pay the highest penalty.

What if the poster bought furniture? Deposit on Apartment? ... and then is "caught" and given the standard deportation of " You have 12 days to get out! ".... Are ANY of you going to reimburse that person for you making the person feel at ease over something you are ALL WELL AWARE IS ILLEGAL ???

None of you have expressed any Apathy for either the Locals OR the Person that posted .... So I ask again ... what do you mean "REASON"? ( Rhetorical question )

You are literally giving the same advice as whomever employed the person:
Come to VN, Teach, and dont worry about the laws .... does that sound like "Sound Advice" ???

JayJones wrote:

What "REASON" did you expect when people are "commonly" supporting the idea that "illegal activity" should be condoned ???

Think about how "exposed" the original poster is now .... There are literally people "justifying" working without a work permit ... if ANYONE ( Employee / Employer ) is caught, the EXPAT will pay the highest penalty.

What if the poster bought furniture? Deposit on Apartment? ... and then is "caught" and given the standard deportation of " You have 12 days to get out! ".... Are ANY of you going to reimburse that person for you making the person feel at ease over something you are ALL WELL AWARE IS ILLEGAL ???

None of you have expressed any Apathy for either the Locals OR the Person that posted .... So I ask again ... what do you mean "REASON"? ( Rhetorical question )

You are literally giving the same advice as whomever employed the person:
Come to VN, Teach, and dont worry about the laws .... does that sound like "Sound Advice" ???

Jesus..just let it go man. The more you spew the more it smells like horse shit.

Did ANYONE not bother to read the Terms of Service?

It specifically states NO ILLEGAL ACTIVITY ....

Worse, the more you people defend the concept of bypassing laws, the worse we Expats look worse in reputation for it!

If you personally believe in "breaking laws" feel free to get to know some of the "strangers" that are on this forum ... How much do you want to wager that some are "Political Police Investigators" ?

Its no wonder why you people have difficulty in foreign nations ... Perhaps the locals are correct, perhaps us Expats are just as bad as the locals.

This was the worst thread ever.    I am in expat.com culture shock.

This thread reminds me a little bit of "Who has the bigger nuclear button".

Andy Passenger wrote:

This thread reminds me a little bit of "Who has the bigger nuclear button".

Uups, I thought I was in the thread "How do you invest in Vietnam real estate?" where Delafon and Dazo will duel soon.

But this thread tends also in the same direction.