Four months after Maria

Same here,  water but no power, it's ridiculous.

I am so sorry you guys are still dealing with this!

We still have no power at our house in Hatillo!  I was informed that an "expedited" hook up could be done for a fee ($1000.00) or I could wait until July for a free hookup.

Yes, So So Sorry that Yall still do not have all your Utilities. Hopefully improvements and upgrades will be figured in and done so that when it happens again, the downed utilities are not as bad.

One of the houses I am looking at has a generator and solar. Which I for sure want as backups and support.

Sitka wrote:

We still have no power at our house in Hatillo!  I was informed that an "expedited" hook up could be done for a fee ($1000.00) or I could wait until July for a free hookup.

That is illigal, asking for money to connect you up. You should report it.

ReyP wrote:

Sitka wrote:

We still have no power at our house in Hatillo!  I was informed that an "expedited" hook up could be done for a fee ($1000.00) or I could wait until July for a free hookup.

That is illigal, asking for money to connect you up. You should report it.

yes, but then I may have to wait forever and a day!  You cannot win in this game!

JOS66 wrote:

Yes, So So Sorry that Yall still do not have all your Utilities. Hopefully improvements and upgrades will be figured in and done so that when it happens again, the downed utilities are not as bad.

One of the houses I am looking at has a generator and solar. Which I for sure want as backups and support.

You will def. need it!

Sitka wrote:

ReyP wrote:

Sitka wrote:

We still have no power at our house in Hatillo!  I was informed that an "expedited" hook up could be done for a fee ($1000.00) or I could wait until July for a free hookup.

That is illigal, asking for money to connect you up. You should report it.

yes, but then I may have to wait forever and a day!  You cannot win in this game!

Still... i would not pay!!!!!

Sorry for all the people who still don't have electricity or/and water! 😢😢😢
Puerto Rico is indeed a third world country...

Happily living in Germany again and even if we had some storms already this year, we always had electricity and water...

Marion-Olga wrote:

we had some storms already this year, we always had electricity and water...

I heard and read about storm "Friedrike" that was pretty bad, right? Lots of damage but no outages in The Netherlands and Germany.

JOS66 wrote:

One of the houses I am looking at has a generator and solar. Which I for sure want as backups and support.

You should check how the solar has been installed. I found out, during the aftermath of Maria, that in many houses with solar panels but without battery banks to store the generated power, you can't use the solar generated power AT ALL during outages.
The way it is installed is that when there is electricity, the power generated by the solar system goes back in the grid and is automatically deducted from your usage. If there's enough sun your bill is maybe 10 or 20 bucks. Now, when there's an outage a kill switchs disconnects the solar panels from the grid.
For safety that's needed so there is no power delivered to the lines that might injure or kill linemen. But it also means that during an outage you need a generator!
In my opinion it is no rocket science to install it in such a way that during an outage the kill switch works as intended (no feed from solar to the grid) but also that you can use the solar generated power in your house (like a generator, with a transfer switch).

Gary wrote:

Marion-Olga wrote:

we had some storms already this year, we always had electricity and water...

I heard and read about storm "Friedrike" that was pretty bad, right? Lots of damage but no outages in The Netherlands and Germany.

Right! 😅😅

Gary wrote:

JOS66 wrote:

One of the houses I am looking at has a generator and solar. Which I for sure want as backups and support.

You should check how the solar has been installed. I found out, during the aftermath of Maria, that in many houses with solar panels but without battery banks to store the generated power, you can't use the solar generated power AT ALL during outages.
The way it is installed is that when there is electricity, the power generated by the solar system goes back in the grid and is automatically deducted from your usage. If there's enough sun your bill is maybe 10 or 20 bucks. Now, when there's an outage a kill switchs disconnects the solar panels from the grid.
For safety that's needed so there is no power delivered to the lines that might injure or kill linemen. But it also means that during an outage you need a generator!
In my opinion it is no rocket science to install it in such a way that during an outage the kill switch works as intended (no feed from solar to the grid) but also that you can use the solar generated power in your house (like a generator, with a transfer switch).

Gary, Thanks for the heads up. It is my understanding there is a battery bank, but will see when we head over. We are just looking and interested for now. We may rent for a year (as has been suggested) to make sure where we want to live and where I decide to put in our office.

FYI: Trump slashed the relief budget for PR saying it "no longer needs it".

lgustaf wrote:

FYI: Trump slashed the relief budget for PR saying it "no longer needs it".

Yeah, we're second class citizens...

lgustaf wrote:

FYI: Trump slashed the relief budget for PR saying it "no longer needs it".

Do you have an article about this from a reliable source? I seen nothing in the media about he saying that.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eX9F25 … 8Z7QB/viewhttps://theintercept.com/2018/01/18/pue … aid-money/https://thinkprogress.org/trump-aid-fun … 8a28114fd/

Gary wrote:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eX9F255WJ7riKq7cYQJSrD3XHoJ8Z7QB/view

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/18/pue … aid-money/https://thinkprogress.org/trump-aid-fun … 8a28114fd/

Those are twisted reports, the loan is not being distributed because there are 800 bank accounts with around 5 billion dollars that need ro be explained, some of those accounts were not known until recrntly. The government of Puerto Rico has lost the trust if the US government and congress and before they release money they want accountability of what funds are available and supervision of how the money is spend. It is a trust issiu and WH never said that PR did not need any more money. People are twisting things for their particular message. Lets stick to facts.

I won't get into a political discussion but PR does not get the help it needs (and that, sir, is a fact!)

Back to electricity, I just talked with a supervisor of an US based crew of linemen who told me there's a shortage of material. Poles, transformers, wire, you name it. They are planning to connect our area but without materials that's not going happen anytime soon.
Getting sick and tired of this...

Gary wrote:

Back to electricity, I just talked with a supervisor of an US based crew of linemen who told me there's a shortage of material. Poles, transformers, wire, you name it. They are planning to connect our area but without materials that's not going happen anytime soon.
Getting sick and tired of this...

Hard to blame this on the federal government:
https://www.npr.org/2018/01/11/57743924 … er-utility

I'm not blaming this on anybody in particular. I'm just more than fed up with all this...

Did you see the articles about the FBI busting some secret warehouse stockpiles by AEE?

Yes I saw those articles, and I think that PREPA or AEE management is a corrupt, inept and criminal bunch, so are (most if not all)  politicicans of whichever party in San Juan. 
I also think that we don't get enough help from the federal government and that "Washington" is treating the people of Puerto Rico as second class citizens.

All the idiots I mentioned above have their agendas but  getting PR back up and running is no priority for neither of them.

And that makes me mad and sad.

Gary wrote:

Yes I saw those articles, and I think that PREPA or AEE management is a corrupt, inept and criminal bunch, so are (most if not all)  politicicans of whichever party in San Juan. 
I also think that we don't get enough help form the federal government and that "Washington" is treating the people of Puerto Rico as second class citizens.

All the idiots I mentioned above have their agendas but  getting PR back up and running is no priority for neither of them.

And that makes me mad and sad.

Agree completely.   

To top it off they cut off the water supply AGAIN, yesterday. 

P.S. add the AAA or PRASA management to my above list of idiots...

Dave,

We heard you were getting a newer and improved electricity grid.  Any word?

Mrsbanks wrote:

Any word?

Nope, and don't expect it anytime soon either. Right now they're struggling to repair the old crappy grid and have like two third done, maybe even less. (why trust their numbers, they have been misleading us with % power generation, making the general public believe that it reflected the % of customers connected  for months after the storm).

Who's going to pay for a new grid? PR is bankrupt and DC is not  even willing to help us recover from the hurricane...

That's what was reported in US.

Mrsbanks wrote:

That's what was reported in US.

What was reported? That PR would get a new grid? Please provide  link if you have one.

http://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2018/01 … bby-maxmanhttp://abcnews.go.com/International/wir … e-52569496

About the improved/new power grid:

http://www.elp.com/articles/2017/12/new … -rico.html

The estimated cost would be  $17.6 billion. Nobody knows where that money should be found.

As of now, the laws that govern FEMA, only allow them to recover the infractructure to the same level that existed prior to the storm. That level was crappy due to lack of maintenance and mismanagement. So short term that is the future, an unreliable crappy electricity system. It is not politics, it is the laws that govern FEMA unless they change them in the future which is not likely to change, FEMA has been under those rules for many years.

Each state affected by disasters and Puerto Rico are asking for help and those numbers are HUGE. Congress would have to allocate close to 1/2 trillion to make everyone happy. Congress is not likely to do that any time soon.

MY OPINION:
Future changes to electric infrastructure are at a minimum 3 years and likely 7 years into the future. Old expensive to operate and poluting electric production systems are in place and will not be replaced for many years. Anyone buying part of AEE has to come up with money to buy, operate old infrastructure and also build or modernize new infrastructure, not many have that kind of cash.

There are plans to carve and sell parts of AEE which is worth around 4.5 billion, however AEE still have a debt of 9 billion so AEE is worth negative 4.5 billion.

No company is going to purchase AEE and take responsibility of paying the debt, which means that the people will end up paying at least 1/2 of that when the federal court decides on the bankruptcy case.

I expect that most new companies will want to buy three things:
1) right to produce and sell electricity
2) The right to market in exclusivity (monopoly) for at least 15 years
3) The right to charge extra and recuperate their investment in building the new infractructure

As of now the talk is about selling the production of electricity (were the most money to be made is). The distribution of said electricity and the future maintenance of all that wiring, poles and towers is not being talked about. But as of now that distribution is very likely to remain with AEE even is they change its name. That means 2 bills in 1, and the price is going to go up. Currently people pay between 21 and 23 cents per KWH, in the future when the deals are done, I expect we will be paying 28-30 cents per KWH. It will be many years before prices come down, no company is going to build infrastructure and run a business at a lost and competition is not likely to occur for many years.

Then there is the issue of jobs for those in the union that runs operations. They will likely will need to reapply with each of the new upcoming private companies and the union is going to cause problems and not make the transition easy.

In short, I dont see any significant modernization for at least 7 years, just a trickle in 3-5 but not sinificant.

People need to invest in their own solar recidential systems if you want to pay less and have a reliable system.

Hawaii which has competition, is paying currently 28 cents KWH and that is with some industry support from the government. PR will be paying more than Hawaii for several years until the dust settles down and real competition takes over.

Just my opinion
Rey

Good analysis, Rey.  And the future isn't too bright for those who have to rely on AEE (or whoever is buying it in part). I hope your expectation that things will get better after 5-7 years pans out.

The problem with solar is that a complete off-grid system, including battery banks starts somewhere around $20k, 25 k for a relatively small house with maybe one A/C unit in a bedroom. For most locals that's a bridge too far so they'll have to keep buying electricity from the/a utility company.

Some good news from my own observations, wherever I see US based contractors work on restoring power they are using better poles than the original ones (metal instead of wood, f.i.) and they only install if the area is cleaned. Also, they are paying more attention and deliver a better job than we're used to from AEE. So, at least for the short term we might have a more reliable grid where trees and other vegetation is not going to be in the way and causing blackouts. Of course after the restoration maintenance is going to be needed and the lack of maintenance and investments is exactly what caused the huge mess the grid was in after Maria.

I'm afraid I will have to rely on my generator for years to come. Actually I'm thinking of buying a second one. A small (2kW)  and quiet inverter generator that I can run at night to power some fans and the fridge.

The issue with the trees is a never ending story. People keep planting trees close to the lines. AEE should charge the owners for cutting the branches, that will eliminate the problem and pay for the service.

Not all new poles meet standards but if we dont have another big storm for 20 years we should be fine.

Also poles are used for more than legal electric wires. There are wires for cable, for internet and phone, all putting stress in the poles. On top of that you have a lot if people stealing service of electricity and cable with illigal connection to the poles. They need to report those and go after them.

Switching to LED and high efficiency stuff can have a huge impact and lower the need for some many panels and batteries. LED, inverter air conditioners and high efficiency appliance are the answer regarless of source of electricity, but they do raise the cost and not every one will be able to afford it. I agree.

Rey:

Absolutely right on FEMA.  They get a lot of criticism, little of which is deserved. 

Regarding the sale of PREPA, I understand it as you do -- on the block is power generation, not transmission.  I also think that the buyer buys the capital assets (i.e. power plants) but not the debt.  As you point out, who would buy a company with 9 billion in debt?

However, who would buy PR energy production knowing that they have to rely on the Puerto Rican government to maintain the transmission lines?  Let's face it, PREPA has a pretty poor record there, and once responsibility for energy generation is separated from transmission, there's even LESS incentive for the government to get the lines fixed. 

Best move, in my opinion, is for the island to work with FEMA to restore the grid to its proir (admittedly inadequate) state, and then privatize the whole thing.

I would love to see Apple invest money in Tesla for the construction of multiple power mini grids where both can make money by buying the rights to produce electricity without buying any of the old infrastructure. This would allow new infractructure that is reliable and dependsble without incurring the cost of obsolete systems.

The big problem is that they will still need at least some of the poles to distribute the power in those neighborhoods

WarnerW wrote:

Absolutely right on FEMA.  They get a lot of criticism, little of which is deserved.

With all due respect, as far as I understand you're not in PR, right?
I don't want to go on with the blame game but FEMA deserves a lot of critisim. Talk to common people here on the island, the people that are living from 1000 dollars or less per month, people that lost part or all of their house. Ask how many people really received assistance from FEMA. Talk to the people who asked for a temporary roof and are still waiting after four months (I'm talking about around 30,000 houses) Talk to people who still don't have access to clean water.
Like it or not, the federal government's help is not sufficient.