I adore a Cambodian girl. Practical advice required

Hi.

First gut feeling is it's a scam, sorry to say that.
Suddenly wanting 35K being transferred is suspicious. There are loads of houses and apartments for sale, so no need to rush into a "great opportunity".

Be happy that WU refused to send it.
As you say a foreigner can only own a condo, but never the land. Nearly all purchase of real estate will be in name of your girlfriend. As you are not married there is no way to keep control over money spent on real estate. Even when married it's a problem.

Did you discuss to buy a house or not, was it her sudden idea?
I would advice anyone who comes here to rent a house or apartment, live in the country for a year or more and find out how things work. If you rent and things go wrong with your relationship you just pack your things and move.

Falling in love here is no big deal, I have fallen in love more in 3 years than in the rest of my life. But always keep your brain functioning, protect your money and income.
Rent everything, from apartment to motorbike/car.

As a finish a story that is true (not me but an acquaintance), Married and bought a house, he paid for everything. The wife used the value of the house to borrow lots of money. Then they divorced. The guy then found out that his house was worth nothing anymore, as she had used about the whole value without his knowledge. No complaining as it is allowed for a spouse to borrow money on the real estate, don't need the foreigner's signature.

Concluding I would say you go back and talk to your girlfriend. Say that you have been advised to not buy real estate now but rent first and then see to find something suitable. If she makes war because of that you know it was a scam and you were just lucky.
As it seems to have been the talk of the village it's possible that more people were involved, like village head, police, officials.

If your girlfriend reacts with calmness, common sense, you could consider that she too was scammed, not necessarily she was in the scam.
Do you still talk an hour a day with her or is the heat over now that there is no money coming in? If quiet now you know it was a scam, then run, run, run.

Many girls here, most of them adorable and it is hard not to adore them. But there are scammers among them and you cannot see it, you can only be aware of it and put alarm bells on as soon as talks are over money and the need to give a lot of it for some reason.

I hope you find out what it was and take your life lesson from it. Take care man.

Joe
Cambodia expat-advisor
Expat.com team

Thankyou, for your kind and informative advice. Actually , I have block communication with her for 2 days because I don't trust myself to relent. It's hurting. Cheers brother

Be strong bro, being scammed hurts much more and much longer.

Consider it a good lesson and stay away from it/her. start all over again and be alert to scams.

Cheers.

Joe

Dear Joe,

I am in more or less the same situation. I (54) have a Khmer online girlfriend (30) who is the world to me. We have contact every day by chat, phone and some video chat for 4 months now and share a lot. She is not very poor (teacher) and did send me lots of pics. It is not possible that she is not real. There is just too much info and pics.
She never ever asked me for money and says she never will. She makes her own living and supports her mother and just want a nice decent man who loves her. Classic story, her father left her mother with childern alone in poverty and she has seen this so many times that she does not trust Khmer man. Every little detail she told me was true and she also told me things I didn't want to hear. She is certainly not only telling me things I want to hear.

In your opinion, how long can these scam artists be patient before they start asking money?  I have read as much as I can about Cambodia and about the scams and I am certainly not naiv. I told her my plans, my project in SR and that I will  rent for a while to get settled. Said also that I will not buy house or land.
With all the info I have I don't think she is a scam. But, all the stories I have read. Can not be sure.
Any advise?

Hi James.

Don't be suspicious in a way that she will discover it, you could ruin a good relationship.

Just be alert, meaning the moment a request comes for an amount of money, realize that it could be a scam. Or not, many girls get pressure from their family to raise money from the "very rich" foreigner. So even if the request is suspicious it does not necessarily mean your girl is scamming you.

You know things go wrong when suddenly the mother needs dental implants in a private clinic, her brother had an accident and not only needs money for the private hospital but also a new motorbike.. Those things should be avoided and Twinsguy as well as I have given the advice to give your girl her own money, like I give $250 per month for herself, I even don't want to know what she does with it. It's her private money and if she gives it to her family it's fine. The advantage is (be sure to tell her the consequence) that there will be no requests for money, as she could easily pay for those smaller amounts.

In your case James, you have not even met in person. So do that first, take your time and enjoy, talk about everything and share opinions. That way you grow towards each other and a relationship can grow. Or not, sometimes being close together for some time brings out the negative sides that we all have and it might lead to second thoughts. So before meeting each other and spending time together you cannot say anything James.

I hope she is as pleasant as you write and expect and that you will have a great time together. You only have to be alert at the earliest request for money. Always ask yourself is it really necessary for a poor family to suddenly visit private clinics because daughter has a barang boyfriend? No it's not, unless you offer that yourself. Have fun James!

Cheers

Joe

dear zfagerst, firstly let me assure you you did the right thing in taking no action and more importantly you did not transfer money, thank western union for saving you a lot of heart break, regretfully cambodian girls , much to my financial loss in the past, tell many lies, it is possible you are not the only farang she has in the loop and , with the greatest respect to you even if you are short, fat, balding and make odd noises at night she would love you just as long as the money held up, when you accept a cambodian girl you automaticly take on her entire family and as a freind in a similar situation found out they even expected him to loan or finance various business deals, now the good part, i met a very attractive girl of 33 five years ago when i was a boy of 75, yes short, fat and balding but not senile or stupid  (not so sure now) who spoke some english and worked in a shirt factory to support her large family as her husband had been killed some years previous when a bus hit his tuk tuk in phnom penh and she had 1 baby, she then told me the people in prey veng provence where she lived were starving so taking a chance i purchased 2 bags of rice which fed the local people for 1 month, we a have been together for 5 years with me going backwards and forwards to phnom penh at regular intervals, so my freind zfagerst there are some very good, honest and caring girls in cambodia, i will be in siem reap from the 24th. january for 5 weeks so please if you wish contact me and we can go for coffee, in the meantime take the advise given by joekhmer.  kind regards,  cookyboy.

It's a relief and enlightening to hear other peoples experiences. Thank you.
I'm ashamed to say that my girl told me the vender needed the money quickly because his child was in a coma (MVA) and the doctors wouldn't operate until he received the money.  101 scam course.
In my defence, if it was a scam, she is the queen of subtlety. It could be that she got excited about the house and we are both in love and she was fishing, trying to see how rich I was. I still don't hold it against her. Kim can't read or write but she is of high intelligence.  Is it possible she really does love me? I guess I will never know. Thanks fellas

zfagerst wrote:

It's a relief and enlightening to hear other peoples experiences. Thank you.
I'm ashamed to say that my girl told me the vender needed the money quickly because his child was in a coma (MVA) and the doctors wouldn't operate until he received the money.  101 scam course.
In my defence, if it was a scam, she is the queen of subtlety. It could be that she got excited about the house and we are both in love and she was fishing, trying to see how rich I was. I still don't hold it against her. Kim can't read or write but she is of high intelligence.  Is it possible she really does love me? I guess I will never know. Thanks fellas

There is a common "alarm bell" in each of these relationships.

"wait til some disaster happens. Either mother in hospital, brother nearly dead, house collapsed, robbery, a family member took all the money and gold, sold the motorbikes he stole from the family, and so on".

I'm always baffled how they think it is not obvious that so soon after meeting a barang disasters happen. A sure alarm bell it is and only one reaction: run, run, run.

Dear Zfagerst and Cookyboy, and of course Joe,

I have been around in this world a bit, and I have read all the stories about scamming and I am not naiv. But I also believe in the goodness of people and especially in Thailand and Cambodia. I like these people so much.
So I am going to share my believes about these scams and relationships.

First: There are professional scammers, and they are good. But I think they are easy to recognize. I have seen them. They ask for money rather fast and if they see you are not an easy victom they move on to the next easy prey.

Second: There are bargirls and other westernized woman (mainly in cities) who want to pick up a western man to have a nice life. They are just opportunists who take what they can. They can be a nice partner, but not the best pick.

Third: There are educated woman with their experiences in life and they would like to have a western partner for a better life for her and her family. They are nice and decent with good values.

Fourth: There are traditional woman (mostly)from the villages, with little education. They want a better life with a western man, but don't know what goes on in the world. Very difficult to communicate with, but very sweet and willing.

In my opinion woman from catagory 1 and 2 are in mainly for the money and they will mostly act that way. The scammers will really try to scam you and the bargirls will take advantage of you as much as they can and they can have 2 or more western boyfriends.
Catagory four is also difficult because you can not communicate with them, share feelings and they are very much under influance of family and friends.
The third catagory are more independent woman and mostly speak good (more or less)english. They want just a better life and a reliable and responsable man.

But we have to realize that the big difference in income has an effect with every woman. If she knows or just thinks you have enough money, she just  doesn't understand why you don't help her or her family. It is their culture. My girlfriend is a teacher with a more or less decent income. She supports her mother and pays also for the school of her little nephew. She feels she has to do this. She never asks me money.
So i can also understand when a woman is with a barang, she and her family believe they hit the lottery, and just assume they will get money or gifts from you.

In case of Zfagerst, she probably is pushed by family or friends and when it didn't work, they come up with the wildest stories. Just like little kids do. I don't believe it is a set up scam. It is just taking the opportunity, caused by her own dreams and probably under pressure or influance of family and friends. I don't think it is because they are bad people. They see a chance and they try to take it, Who can blame them? They have so little.

For that I believe in Joe's system by giving them money every month to use as they wish.

This is not the ultamate truth or wisdom, it is just the way I see it.

Thanks for your perspective james1963 it rings true.  My Kim was/is a bargirl.  But she claimed that she had only worked there for  1 month. Kim is a bit of second and fourth I would hazard a guess.  My heart is too sore to consider the first category but if I can face it , maybe the first as well.  A lot passed between us, discussions about hopes and dreams, childhood hurt, a chance at love. How Cambodian men had let her down. I saw a video of the whole family and many others inspecting the proposed house for purchase. It looked kosher.
I would never judge them from my privileged position. But I guess we need to look after ourselves.
Thanks again

PS - I read Heidi Hoefinger's magnificent book about bargirls and international relationships aptly named " love , sex and money in Cambodia".  It's all there, I didn't want to believe it. Heidi admires the girls efforts to negotiate a better life, and the men don't come out looking that good. Still very informative.

Bar girls are not necessarily scammers, I know a lot of them and they were forced to earn money for the family and in most cases their own baby, as the local man just disappeared.

As they married young and have not have a good education due to being poor, they cannot get a proper job. Amazingly, and it makes me sad every time, a lot of girls cannot read or write English, but also quite a lot cannot read or write Khmer. That is sad and takes away any chance for them to get a decent job like waitress in a restaurant. So the only little chance to earn money is working in a bar. Mind you that about half of girls working in a bar does NOT go with customers, so there is no sex involved, they don't sell their body.

So bar girls need to be divided into two groups: scammers/opportunists and unlucky girls.

It looks I am the knight that protects bar girls. Yes in a way I am. I know many of them, I have heard all their true stories and I know most of them are genuine good girls that are waiting for a reliable foreigner to make their life better.

Greed is learned, not inherited. Problem with many families is that the mother never had the chance to improve her life so when daughter gets a foreign boyfriend mother sees her greed growing and pressures the daughter to get as much support for the family as she can get. Daughter understands that but has to "translate" it to her bf. As a foreigner the best thing you can do is to explain very early in the relationship that our culture is different in that each one takes care of his own life and usually no need to support parents, due to pension from state or company. That way the girl can understand and translate that back to the family.

A real gem to avoid constant begging for money is the monthly allowance that is priv@te money and she is the manager of that money.

Cheers

Joe

dear zfagerst,you have read my reply to you and i urge you to keep trying, joekhmer (whom i have never met) gave you good advice, before i met annie i had many, many girl freinds all working in street 136 and there stories are all same, same, i personally always treated them with respect and in some cases paid school fees, medical bills (i made them get a receipt) and pocket money for the days they cannot work  ,sure i was lied to, had my camera stolen etc etc. by some, do not be put off by one episode there are 7/800 girls working in about 40 bars around street 136 every night mostly decent people just getting by on a day to day basis, good luck in your quest and trust you find your special person real soon,,  kind regards,  cookiboy (real name james)

Dear all,

I didn't say bar girls are all scammers. And I understand the problems they face. Their next problem is that the men coming in bars are not always the best catch either. I will always respect the bar girls and be friendly with them. I have read enough sad stories.

The problem I see with most of the unlucky girls is that they mostly can't communicate well in English and that makes a relationship not quite easy. I was in contact with a lovely hairdressor from PP. Same classic story. Knocked up with a kid, that is living with their parents in the village, husband disappeared. She earning very small money as hairdressor in PP. She was beautifull and friendly, but writing everyday: How are you, and I like you. Her English was very poor so I got bored very fast. Not her fault, but not how I see a relationship.

I dont even call the asking of the mothers greed. They just assume we westerns have lots of money and find it quite normal that they get some of it. I know this from my own girlfriend. She has discussions with her mother, who is pretty poor, too. So poor that her children were raised in an orphanage, although they were no orphans. My girlfriend had the big luck that a american philantropist paid the schoolfee's and bus for some of the brighter kids of the orphanage and so she got proper education. The man was a saint! He really made the difference for those kids and so my girlfriend.

I try to get as much information possible about the life in Cambodia and the lives of the people and woman before I move over. I want to be prepared. And still I know I will be suprised a lot. I don't mind spending some money on thoses woman and give them some. But I hope to be treated honest and without lies. I keep my eyes open and use common sence. And I probably will be disappointed one or more times. But that's life.
But I have read stories of men getting in a relationship fully unprepared and getting scammed because they lost all common sence.

As jo said , women who work in the bars , or “ bar girls “ for lack of a better word, these girls can be the nicest most honest ,best loyal lifelong partners you can find, do not judge these women based upon where they work at the moment, I worked at mc Donald's when I was younger , I didn't want anyone to assume this was going to be my life's profession, as these girls do not to be always seen as a bar girl, work is hard , most of these girls are working out of need to help feed thier children or extended family,  many of these girls are not only beautiful but kind honest and grateful to find a kind man who treats them and thier family with respect, a lot of theses girls if not most of them are fine wonderful girls , I personally find it upsetting that western people assume these are just trashy whores , this might be the case in your country here in Cambodia it's not always the case , in fact I would venture to say most of these women are good family women just trying to make ends meet in a country where men's labor is more respected and men are paid more , women have fewer options!

twinsguy, what a refreshing article and so true they come to the bar area to make money and hopefully meet a western man who will take them away from there, having lived for a short time in street 136 it pained me to see men from the middle east and other like countries how they treat these girls and on some occassions do not pay the girl and throw her out of the room as they very well know the girl cannot go to the police as prositution is illegal in cambodia, i have been to vietnam and thailand and i can tell you without reservation that cambodian girls are the nicest girls and prettiest you will find on the planet, thanks for taking the time to tell poeple just what its like to be poor,  kind regards,  cookiboy.

cookyboy wrote:

i have been to vietnam and thailand and i can tell you without reservation that cambodian girls are the nicest girls and prettiest you will find on the planet,

James, I totally back that statement, it is something I say many times, I have lived in Thailand for 8 years previously and I can clearly see the difference, Cambodian girls are less business-like and more friendly.

I know a lot of them and regularly I visit the bars and have a nice evening with them, chat, drink, play pool, just a nice evening as you can have with friends.

Cheers

Joe

Dear Joe,

As I remember, you have a Khmer partner do you? When you go into a bar and have fun (harmless) with other bargirls, isn't your GF jealous? I am very loyal, and would never cheat on my partner, but I can imagine that a Khmer woman would be very afraid losing you/me.
I don't know their culture enough about this.
As I said in another post. I have been in Asia (Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Macao, China, Hong Kong, Malasia) a lot, but missed the fun with bargirls because I was never single.

James.

First of all I don't have one longtime girlfriend. Unfortunately after discovering lies and secrets I had to end the relationships. This happened a number of times in the past 3 years.

But, when I have a girlfriend we go to the bars together and have fun. Most of the time they know one or two that work there so we visit them and stay in their bar.
As it is kind of friends place there is no jealousy. I know most of the girls working in the scene so I can easily say hello, kiss them and sit next to them. I know how to behave, and it is not diluted by alcohol use, as I hardly drink, if a nice red wine is available I will drink a glass of wine, or else a juice or water.
So I'm never in any way under influence, which helps to respect the line that should not be crossed.

I'm also a one-girl man. If I'm single I butterfly around, if I have a girlfriend I am with her, just saying hello to girls I know and chat with them. My girlfriend trusts me and she can.

Yes, there is a difference between me going out as a single or as a guy with a girlfriend. Even when I go out alone but have a girlfriend (the actual one works in a restaurant from 4 pm til 11 pm), I do my round in the bar scene and at 11 pm I pick my girl up from her work, to either go home or have a drink somewhere, that's up to her.

It is the same dilemma as being single or in a relationship. When you're single you got freedom, can go where and when you want, never too late home and can have fun with girls. In a relationship means you give in freedom, choice of tv channels to watch, choice of food, BUT you have a lovely partner around, always much younger than me and also always adorable, funny and with that young-girl appearance and behaviour. So there are pros and cons in both situations.

Fortunately I'm always positive so if a relationship has ended I'm sad for a few days and then pick up single life again with the same energy as before. I easily fall in love with these lovely cute Cambodian or Vietnamese girls, so my single periods are not that long, I want to enjoy them every day and so I start again a relationship, also because I find that the new girlfriend has the right to be trusted. I always trust them but sometimes they cannot stop lying or having secrets. I find it out quite quickly and then it's over and out, after a first warning.

That's about it James, cheers.

Joe

Dear Joe,

Thx for sharing! Interesting life! I am more a guy for longer relationships, and hate being single. I like having someone around me.
I am a bit jealous of your way of living, and when I would be single I would be having all the fun.

You didn't answer my most important question: Are Khmer girls more jealous/ afraid of losing you when you talk with other bargirls? I like going out to listen life music / shoot some pool and my girlfriend is not a bar type, doesn't drink and goes only out with friends. I don't want to upset her. How the the culture about this?

Hi James.

If you like to be in a relationship you miss out the advantages of single life, but it's a choice.

To answer your question: Cambodian girls are extremely jealous But it's more about things they don't see but suspect. They belief any gossip about you and it's hard to defend yourself.

Never ever "play" with it, it's never a joke and you will always regret to start the "joke".

As many guys cannot be trusted alone, the girls won't let you go out alone, they will join you rather than sitting at home and worry. This goes not for them, they want to go out with female friends and don't see the possibility that a bunch of cute girls attracts men and whatever happens then.

So my advice, taker her with you and behave. Don't let her sit alone while you talk to guys or girls.
If you have met other couples you can arrange to go ot together, so the ladies can talk among them while the lads have fun, playing pool or so.

I had a few girlfriends that worked in a bar before, advantage: they play pool and quite well. So going out no problem, not boring when you play pool together.

Those are about the options.

Cheers.

Joe

Thanks Joe,

You confirmed what I already expected a little. I don't mind them being jealous. I don't fool around and it shows they care.

I will take your advise. I like to joke around sometimes and I don't thinks she will understand.

Some excerpts from Heidi Hoefinger's book;
Excerpt from sex,love and money in Cambodia by Heidi Hoefinger

.In many parts of the world, marriages are seen as ‘contractual agreements' that involve the ‘exchange of reproductive labor, sexual services, and material support' (Constable 2003: 89). 18 As Jacobsen pointed out earlier, marriages in Cambodia were historically viewed as ‘political tools of great significance', which worked to improve the status of the entire family (2008: 33), and the custom of paying back the ‘price of mother's milk' to the female's family in the form of a monetary gift is still practised today. It is still very much culturally expected that a daughter's marriage will bring material benefits to the rest of the family. Therefore a Cambodian woman's desire to meet a man who will support her and her family must not be attributed to some form of innate greed but rather to a deeply rooted cultural expectation.

That's fine, but we foreigners should point out that we TOO have a culture and nobody can be forced to abandon his own culture.

In my country and many others it is FORBIDDEN by law to give money to a girl or her family in order to marry her! It is a law to protect girls from being "bought", also called human trafficking. In poor countries it is not a big deal to "buy" a girl, even of very young age. It is wrong wrong wrong.

When I lived in Thailand, in a very small remote village, after I divorced from my Thai wife, I was on a few occasions offered a daughter of a local family, once even a 14 years old (underaged) girl! As long as I would pay the 10.000 baht per month ($250-275), which was my offer to girls in the range of 25-35. That proves that the habit (not culture) of paying dowry (as that is what it is) is wrong and leads to unhappy girls that were bought by a man they didn't like but the men just paid enough money to the family.

In Cambodia it's a bit better. You don't pay dowry. But you are supposed to give money to the family and the family organizes the wedding and 3 day party for about the whole village. It means that the family does not gain any money from the wedding of their daughter.

Something else is the regular requests for money. I refuse to see that as a repaying of mothers milk, I'm very straight in that. The mother and the father made a baby and they are responsible for that baby. To 25 years later expecting to get money for bringing up their own child is pushing away their responsibility and put it at the groom's side. Wrong again. They should be happy that their daughter, in many cases under-educated, found a sincere, proper, reliable man who will support her and give her a good life. That is what they forget, the only thinking is that now the daughter "angled" a filthy rich foreigner (that's what they think) the daughter should do everything to let the foreigner support the family.

Again I say that my system works fine, my girl gets $250 every month, that is $3000 per year, that is more than a year salary of factory workers, and with that money she can fill the needs of the family. That is also what happens, any girl that was with me always gave the full amount to her mother, she did not keep anything herself. And the main advantage is that if the family requests for money the daughter is on your side and tells them to wait till next money that she will give. Perfect solution.

Cheers

Joe

Hello everybody,

this is a really interesting thread, thank you all.

I enjoy my Khmer girlfriend very much since almost 4 years. Of course sometimes odd reactions or discussions can happen. But it's okay compare to the pleasant sides of this relationship.

I have a short question: Why is a girl automatically a scammer if she asks for money?

She is convinced that you are richer than herself. If she think it could be appropriate that you can do something for her she will not wait, she will ask you or she use another way to make it clear. My girlfriend never ask, she just tell me sometimes about neccessary things more casually . If I can make it I buy if not ignore it. She never say it two times or asks directely. That's it. But not each Khmer girl has good english and can do a smart conversation. No reason to blame her to be a scammer when she ask for something.

And we western guys have always to see that the most of the families are poor. Even the girl has a iphone and a nice purse, the situation at home can be quite different.

However I have to say: the case of zfagerst is quite hard.

I agree with JoeKhmer: … things should be avoided to give your girl her own money, like I give $250 per month for herself, I even don't want to know what she does with ……

Just in my opinion $250 is okay but not enough in PP and never for a family.

Best,

Tom

Hello Tom.

Good post that confirms the experience of others.

Your question why a girl is a scammer when she asks for money has two answers.
First if it's about $50 and she gets no other money, she is not a scammer. If she asks like has been stated for $30,000 without living together it is obviously a scam. Any girl would wait till she and you live together for quite some time before mentioning that she saw a house that is for sale. First thing that comes to my mind is that I personally will never buy a house, I rent. So a girl that prematurely asks you to finance a house that you even haven't seen, is probably a scammer, surely if the whole village is involved.
Second, as you quoted, I have, and others too, the system of giving her an allowance for herself. That way you avoid the quests from family for money, she can fulfill those quests herself.

Your vision that $250 is not enough in PP does not share my vision. In a country where the minimum wages are $170, a monthly allowance of $250 is generous enough. Don't forget that the girl also lives for free, she has no costs of her own. Of course you can always pay for larger items, e.g. like repair or improvement of the family house.

Just don't accept the whole family going to private clinics, hospitals and dentists.They didn't do that before so no need to spend big money on things like that. Also your girl knows very well who is honest and who is not. The brother needing a new motorbike is such an example. Your girl will know that he damaged it when drunk, or that the mb can be repaired, no need to buy a new one.

All in one, as I said before, be aware. If disasters happen shortly after you get together, don't trust it.

If you still lived in let's say Europe, would you spend a fortune on a girl that you just met and not even live together? No, we all would not do that. Then why do it here? Live together, see if it works out well, then slowly invest some money, but not a big capital.

Cheers.

Joe

In Cambodia it's a bit better. You don't pay dowry. But you are supposed to give money to the family and the family organizes the wedding and 3 day party for about the whole village. It means that the family does not gain any money from the wedding of their daughter.

Joe, I have a different experience when I visited a few wedding in the last years. The man pays for the wedding, that's right. It can take indeed 10-15.000 Dollar depending on the family and the man of course.
But every invited guest has to pay something to the couple. It can be maybe 20, 50, 100 Dollar or even more. So the money comes back more or less. But the moneyreturn keeps the family of the bride. Eventually the family pay a part back to the man if it was a bit too much for him.
The "income" of the wedding will be carefully registered in a book: The name of the guest family + how many person appeared + how much they spent. This is the measure for the future when the family is invited to the guest family for an own wedding or birthday.

Correct Tom.

As the "income" is kept by the family it is the man who pays for the wedding and festivities.

But no dowry is paid.

Cheers.

Joe

Yes, not directly, that's right!

Best
Tom

It is a little bit like (assumed we are agree that we want to support them becaus their income is too less even they have a good job) a classical capitalism rule: "supply and demand" but just in a opposite way.

If the demand (from her) is less than what you consider as appropriate (supply) you will be happy and give her the money easily. And if the demand is higher you feel not happy and you can not or want not pay. 

That is your system.

My system is to give her enough so that she can manage her own money.

She then will not ask for more.

Simple but efficient.

Cheers

Joe

That's my system too...

Best

Tom

It is enlightening to hear such a relevant discussion to my situation. I am returning to Phnom Penh in a couple of days for 2 months. I did spend 3 weeks with my girl in PP and we have been in daily telephone conversation for 2 months. I made the mistake of giving her some hope that I would consider the $35,000 USD house. I then checked around and found that there is no legal way to control the money or the property or even to get married legally. It would need to be a gift to her.  So I then said I couldn't support the deal. This all took place in the space of 3 days, I did not have time to think and I didn't want to disappoint her. She was dreaming big and you know a person is so happy when they're in this state. I think she is sincere when she says she cares for me and wants to live as husband and wife.
Her dream is to live in the province and have her own house (and business). I will offer to rent a house and follow Joe's advice with the regular payments. This imbroglio occurred through misunderstanding.  The house has not been sold and I guess the vendor's child died since he needed the money for an operation to save his life. My girl could not even remember the story of the sick child when I asked here how the child was doing. This is just some kind of Cambodian way of doing things.  Kim has not forgotten the house though, and I'm going to hit some resistance and disappointment.

The local councillor and policeman have told Kim that they will register our marriage legally even though I'm 60 years old, also that my name can appear on any title deeds for property bought. This is where Kim and I disagree. If it's against the constitution then I guess a local authority would be overruled with any test to the legality of the documents.
My heart is a little heavy knowing I have to disappoint the whole family. There's been a line up of people wanting to lease sections of the proposed building for various businesses.
If she really wants to be with me we'll find some arrangement that works for us.  Anyway it's good to give "No" a try early in the relationship. lol

Thank you for listening

Be always careful regarding the allegations of a policeman or a councillor. To be really sure about everything you must find a good lawyer. Your skepticism is eligible.

You will see how the relationship goes on in the future. Don't buy any property. Pretend to be always sceptic after you inspected an offered house because of the location, the condition, the neighborhood, or it is overpriced, yada yada yada .... you will find a lot of reasons to say no.
It is always good to hit back with their own weapons. Meanwhile you can rent a house and extend this situation more and more while you learn about your girl more and more. So you will get a much better feeling about the whole situation.

And as longer you are there as more interesting girls you will see and in addition to that you will also meet some local expats to talk.

I don't know how often you visited Cambodia in the past. But if you are not so familiar with the country yet, you should make some trips to different provinces to learn more about land and people. To have this in mind it would make more sense to buy a car (if the girl has it not yet) and invite the girl (and of course her mom her niece and some other family members, because you will be never really alone within a Khmer family) and drive cross through the country. THATS FUN! Certainly she has relatives in other provinces to visit. Its good to do that. I do it since some years and it brought me deep insights in the Cambodian society. And you should learn the language. Speaking some Khmer will bring your standing and your reputation within the local society on a high level.

Zfagerst, good writing, I think you see the light again 

Quote: "The local councillor and policeman have told Kim that they will register our marriage legally even though I'm 60 years old, also that my name can appear on any title deeds for property bought. This is where Kim and I disagree. If it's against the constitution then I guess a local authority would be overruled with any test to the legality of the documents. " /quote

Excellent!
Don't forget that a policeman is nothing except a policeman. Those promises are worth nothing and even if they pretend to make it "official" it will still be fake and the moment someone complains about you or has a deal with you, they will back off and you are left with a court saying "this is invalid".

Foreign men over 50 cannot marry a Cambodian girl, under that age it's possible but you will have to earn $2500 a month (or was it even more?).
You can do the easy village wedding, even with monks, but it is never registered as an official marriage.

As Tom said, live with your girl for quite some time in a rented house, be somewhat interested if she comes up with a house for sale, but don't get into it. You will see how important it is to her.

And one thing: She cannot remember the story of the sick child, the reason to sell the house quickly?
Very very strange. Go into it when you're in the village, show interest in the child's condition and let them tell the story, several people. If stories differ you know what to think of it.

One last very good advice: NEVER live close to your inlaws! Keep at least 20 km distance. Closer than that means no privacy, no ownership of tools, motorbikes, machinery, beer disappearing from the fridge and so on. This is my personal experience in Thailand, where I made the mistake to accept a plot of land and built a house on it, 50m from the parents house. I constantly missed tools and nobody knew where they were, FIL damaged my car, my tractor, even stole meat from my kitchen when wife and I were talking to a salesman.
Even my Thai wife admitted that we wouldn't have as many problems if we would have lived 20km further. Keep this in mind, you only take the decision once.

Good luck!

Joe

Hi  my name is gary I have lived in Cambodia on and off for 20 years to date, I am so, so, sorry for your situation am sorry to say you have waken up and smell the coffee. It's a scam  and your lucky not too have sent the money. You would have never seen the money again other than maybe a house that you would never own and her husband or boyfriend is living in it.

While I still adore Cambodian women I have lost a small  fortune  to them,  I learn my lesson the hard way. Pay for our wedding  Built houses, bought motor bikes, gold, pay doctors dentists bills, support family members always 100% loyal that's just me. Don't drink too much  non smoker, never  Abused  them. And still left with nothing ha, ha, ha you got to laught how stupid I have been in the name of love
as for losing face that old chestnut forget that  one it's a mind  game  would you sooner lose 35,000 my adivce to you is set up home iwith her (renting) and pay her a monthly  allowance around $200 -month look after her well teat her with  dignity. And if she really loves you and not the love of money hopefully in the future it might, work out for you. But don't hold your breath not after asking for that sum of money  Keep in contact I will try and help You if I can. All the best gary

One more thing I think   joekhmer is 100% correct with his advice  on how to live in Cambodia. The only thing I don't agreed with him is the Chinese are good  for Sihanoukville we couldn't be  farther apart on that one. I have lived in sihaunkville a long, long, time they have kill the friendly back water fieel to the place. But that's a other thead.  Had to get it in sorry joe.

Just a short one Gary.

Of course everyone is entitled to another opinion. But be precise.

I did not say Chinese influx is good for SHV, I said it does not harm and on the long run it will prove to be beneficial. You lived there in the past, I live there in the present. You miss the backwater feel.....
You mean you like an underdeveloped town with no street lights, hardly any asphalt roads, unemployed locals, poverty.

Progress is a nasty word, but it is part of a growing city. Most things are good, some are a bit of a disadvantage. But always it is necessary to let a city grow. Infrastructure, street lights, wide asphalt roads, improved sewage system, improved water treatment plant. It looks like the city's growth has not been keeping pace with the infra structure, the latter being totally outdated. That is not to blame to the Chinese, as their influx started last year, not before. So who you want to blame? Khmers? Westerners? Backpackers? I would not blame anyone except the departments that are responsible for infra structure, garbage handling, safe roads. It will be alright, I'm sure.

Cheers

Joe