MMH2 2018

Sounds more like an MM2H agent trying to get business by forcing snap decisions.

It's just speculation about any changes in qualifying.  The issue is that immigration is tired of people trying to live full time in Malaysia on tourist visas and so is issuing Do Not Land stamps in certain circumstances. Raising the qualifying criteria would just worsen that situation.

The government wants foreign investment and revenue (indirectly taxable in the case of rental income) so more people not less is their goal - no tax-free car is an example of the new attitude to revenue and perks for foreigners. The terms a family is accepted onto MM2H persist at renewals FYI

The going rate seems to be about RM7500 for primary application plus RM500 for additional people each. Some agents are not reputable. Some ask for 50% upfront and others only ask for payment on successful application.

Why do you think only the under 50's terms are going to change?  Historically both categories have been updated simultaneously.

Changes are announced via the budgets, which the latest was held in late October and no changes were mentioned. Before the next budget season there will be a general election - so that will take place before any fiscal adjustments.

Sri Lanka has the best retirement visa terms.

KL is not so popular with expats on MM2H these days.

Gravitas, thanks for reply.  I don't think so but who knows.  He is not the only agent talking about new changes I've seen several of them speaking about coming changes.  So tell me why is the MM2H program not so great these days as you say.  Tell me so I can make a better informed decision.  Oh and there were change for under 50 I just did not put them there maybe I should.

For myself the biggest issue is the large amount of money that needs to deposited into a local fixed deposit. I have plenty of money saved in US-based retirement savings, but when I take the money out I have to pay US based income tax based on the amount as if it's US based income, so a withdrawal of RM350K would equate to about $80K US. And that would generate about another $20K US in US taxes vs if I withdraw the money as needed for living expenses. So I'd have to pull at least U$100K out of savings.  The other issue is the 3-4% interest that money would earn vs leaving it invested in the US where over the last 50-60 years it averages about 12% growth (it's done much better the last year). If the amount was increased to RM500K then it would look even less attractive.

I'm on a spousal visa and as such I don't need to use MM2H, but if something was to happen to my wife then I may be forced to look at it as an option to remind if Malaysia.

People shop around to find somewhere they feel they could "belong" and where they can afford to live.  For some people they try to make a decision without really investigating or even visiting Malaysia. Others make short trips and base their decisions on that. I live here because I love the lifestyle and I had already spent quite a few years in the region and country on various occasions. Widely spoken English is very useful as well when comparing locations. Luckily taxation implications are not the same as Iskandarhack for everyone, although I have also heard some complaints from Indian citizens about exchange rates back and forth.

There is no such thing as a free lunch and the reasons for not doing MM2H are a bit like the same reasons people don't go and live or work overseas in the first place (long before retirement) - this is usually "I would have done it.... BUT......."

I just read a blog about a couple who are giving up and moving on to a place in Thailand. It became clear that they had failed to integrate, chose the wrong place to live, did not act wisely with their money and envied people who had more resources than themselves..... hence Malaysia got the blame for their issues. I expect they will repeat the same faux pas in their next location as well. But the bottom line is often people do exactly that. They pretend the problems are not of their making or invent "information" to fit with their mindset.

People should move on if they find themselves complaining (usually something else is of course at fault). It means they are misfits in the environment they find themselves and the pot of gold is probably at the end of another rainbow.

Digitarius - you sound confused about what information you gave, but as it's speculation it does not really matter.....

So MM2H is great for people who want or need it.  If a family doesn't feel they want to investment emotionally and financially in a particular lifestyle - it's good they don't do it. But many people really do find the value and benefit of MM2H - it's very individual...

PS I moved from KL to Penang.

I am not confused I just want to know what the going rate is for the MM2H program and if there are any hidden costs.  I am aware of the obvious cost but I want to be sure of any other and the company I mentioned in initial post just email me and  explained there are other cost such as medical check up and health insurance and a visa fee.
So it's not confusion it's getting as much facts as possible because I already decided I am going to do it. 

The confusion was about the under/over 50's - probably a slip of the finger.....

I would advise not living in KL on MM2H.

Joy-Stay and Alter Domas come recommended but I did my own. I was also living in Malaysia at the time. People who apply from outside often find a good agent saves time and money in the end as they get it right first time and the experienced one's assist applicants greatly.

It is currently taking about 5 months to get the approval through if a correct and valid application is submitted.

Why not live in KL?  I have been looking at other cities also such as Malacca, Johor Bahru and Kuching.  Which cities do you like?

I live on Penang Island but lived in KL for 5 years before that. Penang has a larger expat community and is very organised. It also is geared for putting on lots of events - so always something to do. KL doesn't have much of a network at all. Malaysia runs on Facebook, so looking up groups to join will give better insight.

Some people are choosing Ipoh these days and there is also Taiping - but still small networks.

The application for Sarawak and Sabah is slightly different from peninsular Malaysia. https://www.sarawak.gov.my/web/home/art … w/221/279/

I see.   I don't have a FB page and don't want one.  I have heard much about Penang so will have to visit there.  I will probably be there sometime in March.

Haha that's what everyone says who doesn't have FB and lives in Penang - but they miss out on such a lot.  Th majority eventually get one. I guess you have joined internations.org - but it does not really function well in Penang because of FB being so widely used.

I applied for my MM2H back in 2007 or 2008. The Agent asked for RM10k and I think I paid RM6k or RM8k, can't remember. He did a good job.

I had MM2H and at the time it was really easy to get it, only requiring me to deposit RM60k because I'd already bought many properties. I got bored with Malaysia and in 2015 I moved to Indonesia and cancelled my MM2H.

I agree with Gravitas about not good living in KL. Melaka and JB and Kuching are all too quiet. Penang sounds about right if you are going to do it. If I really wanted to live in a city I'd choose Bangkok.

But I really got bored with Malaysia and am not too much of a fan of Malaysian people after living there for 12 years. Property is becoming unaffordable such that you cannot make money in the property market anymore unless you still hold onto properties bought many years ago.

Japanese like MM2H when they retire because the Yen is strong and Malaysia is much cheaper to live than Japan and Malaysia has lots of gold courses. Unfortunately I do not like golf.

I would have to agree about living in KL, I live in KL and love it. But my wife's from KL and her whole family is basically in the KL area. But I rarely interact with other expats (other than here) and have gone basically local. We live in typical local area and almost never see another expat when we go shopping or out to eat. But I'm not a typical expat trying to live the expat lifestyle

Nah i will never get FB account I'm not interested in being liked hahaha. And no I did not join Internations.   I think I can exist quite nicely without Facebook and have so far in the many places I've gone.   But I will checkout Penang sounds interesting.  I won't get bored I intend to travel around not just stay in Malaysia. I just want the visa just in case.

KL is a good place to travel from. Airasia flights are often cheapest from here.

Penang Mainland is also becoming popular and is a less expensive option sometimes. Otherwise the south of Penang Island is similarly priced for accommodation and local food options.

It's funny how people have got the wrong idea about Facebook. All registering an account means is you can access information - some people use it to connect, but most restaurants, government dept, businesses, tourist info, community info just post info on it. So it has overtaken the role of websites that used to be set up.  You would instantly be informed of the AirAsia seat sales for example. Nowadays many businesses just have FB pages as their portal.

So what would be the cheapest but nicest city to live in Malaysia?  I am not really caring for living around expats I could take it or leave it.

Taiping, Ipoh, Kulim in north i.e. not near the sea. Balik Pulau. Quickest way to check is probably looking at rental prices on say www.ibilik.my. or iproperty etc. Seremban in the central area. Penang or Kulim. It depends whether you want nature such as jungle and mountains, water, or facilities. Always Langkawi as well.

Everywhere can be cheap if living like local Malaysians. Lots of prices for commodities are fixed by the government. Wet markets are widely available.

Some areas have more of one ethnicity e.g. Chinese, Indian or Malay Malaysians - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Malaysia That changes the "flavour" of a location in some ways.

Malaysia is not CHEAP - prices have doubled  in last few years and still rising. Expatistan or Numbeo are good reference starting points. There are not that many western expats in the country compared to earlier.

Hi,
I would like to apply online for the MM2H . I am trying to get a line item breakdown of all costs involved, and have not received feedback from the authorities
. Can you help?

Digitarius, I thought you were thinking about moving to Bogor? How come you've decided on Malaysia? Is it final or still deciding between the two countries?

There is no cost to make a personal application.  The only cost is when the visa is issued into your passport. The number of years to expiry of your passport determines the cost. It is RM90 per year.

Making a personal application also requires a deposit of RM1500 (Bond). There is also a RM10 stamp duty affixed by any tax office on the Bond form.

Of course you have to arrange a fixed deposit of RM150,000 if over 50 yoa or RM300,000 if under that age.

Additional costs are medical insurance - that is hospitalization cover under Malaysian policies and you can decide how much that costs by how much financial indemnity you want i.e there are annual max and lifetime max etc.

Cost of a physical examination by a doctor. This should not cost you more than RM150-200

Other costs will be getting the documents you need (such as Police Certificate), and possibly translation or endorsement charges. You need to send all the paperwork to Putrajaya after the online form filling.

Travel down to Putrajaya for the stamping.

It seems that so many people from different countries are all considering MM2H and moving to Malaysia and sometimes I think they do not realize how expensive it is.

I lived in Malaysia for 12 years, and decided that it was becoming too expensive, property market stagnating and asked myself why I continued to live here (I was getting bored too).

In KL, I spent RM5,800 per term for a Montessori school for each of my kids. I believe that price has increase a lot since then. In Indonesia, I only pay the equivalent of RM2k per term for an English speaking Montessori school. It's 1/3 of the price of Malaysia.

Same for International school, my son already started his international school in Indonesia and we only pay RM2.2k per term. That's using the Cambridge system and in a good school.

Eating out in Indonesia, is the same, restaurant bills are approximately 30% of what I used to pay in KL.

And the cost of long stay visas such as MM2H is becoming a little ridiculous. I was lucky that my FD deposit was only RM60k, but now it keeps getting higher and higher as do the minimum price that an expat needs to spend to buy a home or invest in property in Malaysia. whereas in Indonesia I pay about RM650 for a one year temporary stay visa.

I am not knocking MM2H, I really think it is suitable for those foreigners who have a healthy pension or people with the means to afford to live here such as so many retired Japanese and westerners who can easily afford it and can play golf every week.

But for the so many it seems who want to apply for MM2H but don't really understand that Malaysia is quite expensive and the amount of money that you need to invest and spend and the fact that you cannot really work here, then perhaps some should reconsider.

Thank you so much Gravitas.

I agree
Been here for the last 11 years, and things have really become expensive, as my daughter just finished her studies n left for Australia, I too am thinking of moving out from Malaysia, either to sri Lanka, Thailand, Indonesia, or Philippines who have similar retirement visa programs

Hi All,

Does any MM2H holders have any information on 'will - last testament' in Malaysia. Thank you in anticipation

If you own fixed assets, i.e. property, if you don't make a will in Malaysia, during probate its value will be split according to local laws and not a foreign will.

Thank you Gravitas for prompt clarifications. For Bank FD too they say nomination facility is not available, so 'will' needs to be done. Any idea if 'will' document needs to be notarized or verified by Commissioner of Oaths here? Thanks for your help

The will is prepared according to Malaysian requirements and will be stamped (i.e. an individual cannot draw up a Malaysian will, as is possible in some countries). A local lawyer has to operate the will when the time comes. It is a separate legal document valid in Malaysia. It is quite detailed and all assets have to be stipulated, right down to the reg no. of any vehicles and of course full details of bank accounts. It is important that the wording is correct so that it does not conflict with other international wills. The liquidation of assets in Malaysia is quite swift with a local will.

Thank you so much Gravitas. Any chance you know any lawyer who provides such support? Thank you again, Regards

Your MM2H agent might have contacts. I'm in Penang these days

Thank you, Regards

thats not true.. individual can draw up a will and have 2 witness to sign on the will then it is valid.

you can apply mm2h yourself, it is not that difficult..

current mm2h fd placement is 300K under 50 y.o.

affin bank offer the best fd rate now that i know of

I've never seen this question asked. But my US Social Security will probably be less than RM10K (depending on the exchange rate if I change to MM2H), but I have significant retirement savings (WAY over the RM350K amount). Can I 'pad' my monthly retirement by taking scheduled withdrawals for several months or even a year or more to take the monthly income to over the RM10K.  I already have over RM150K in other accounts that could be moved to FD if needed.

Say my SS is $2500 per month and I took out another $1000 each month from retirement accounts (with would be an auto transfer straight into my US checking account), would that work?

I'm just thinking how difficult it would be to change over to MM2H if my wife should pass away before me.

If not mistaken, hong Leong bank offering the best FD rate at the moment till end of April

"I've never seen this question asked. But my US Social Security will probably be less than RM10K (depending on the exchange rate if I change to MM2H), but I have significant retirement savings (WAY over the RM350K amount). Can I 'pad' my monthly retirement by taking scheduled withdrawals for several months or even a year or more to take the monthly income to over the RM10K.  I already have over RM150K in other accounts that could be moved to FD if needed.

Say my SS is $2500 per month and I took out another $1000 each month from retirement accounts (with would be an auto transfer straight into my US checking account), would that work? "

Assuming that you are (or will be) over 62 (since you speak of Social Security). I also assume that the current rules hold until you apply.

It's Peninsular Malaysia (not Sarawak) is the area that requires a predetermination of liquid assets for applicants. For over 50 you must show liquid assets of RM350K PLUS RM10K/month. In lieu of the latter you can open a FIXED DEPOSIT of RM150K after approval.  You seem to qualify for the MM2H on the peninsula. In Sarawak they don't even care about your liquid assets. They simply want to see that you can provide the RM10,000 (for couples) in guaranteed fixed income  OR establish the fixed deposit of RM150K (not both) .

"I'm just thinking how difficult it would be to change over to MM2H if my wife should pass away before me." Change over to MM2H from what? Is your wife Malaysian? You don't mention that.

Or are you talking about your wife being the primary applicant and yourself the secondary?

BTW You can apply for the Sarawak M2H and an live anywhere in Malaysia.

The fixed deposit always has to be placed now for the peninsular MM2H.  This changed about 18 months ago but the gov website is not updated - agents' sites are.

The word "minimum" was also inserted before the financial requirements.

Statistics show only about 33,000 approvals out of 1 million applications

http://mm2h.gov.my/index.php/en/home/pr … statisticshttp://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/catego … nder-mm2h/

cinnamonape wrote:

"I'm just thinking how difficult it would be to change over to MM2H if my wife should pass away before me." Change over to MM2H from what? Is your wife Malaysian? You don't mention that.

Or are you talking about your wife being the primary applicant and yourself the secondary?

BTW You can apply for the Sarawak M2H and an live anywhere in Malaysia.

My wife is a born Malaysian, and I'm currently on spousal visa. However I sold everything I owned in the US (cars, furniture, houses) with the plan of retirement in Malaysia. Then of course learn that unlike the US a spouse can't remain if their spouse passes away.

Gravitas wrote:

The fixed deposit always has to be placed now for the peninsular MM2H.  This changed about 18 months ago but the gov website is not updated - agents' sites are.

The word "minimum" was also inserted before the financial requirements.

Statistics show only about 33,000 approvals out of 1 million applications

http://mm2h.gov.my/index.php/en/home/pr … statisticshttp://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/catego … nder-mm2h/

Makes depending on MM2H as a backup plan a risky idea.

Well, you asked "how difficult". I'd say you are in the same situation as any retiree applicant. You'd have to meet whatever qualifying criteria they have at the time. But as an additional back-up you might consider making some Sarawakian friends.  If you have been married a decade and on Social Visit Passes that long you can apply for Permanent Residency.

You still have considerable assets, though (even though they have been translated into other forms...perhaps Malaysian deposits).  I think you'd still own your house/condo if you've bought one. You are a legal resident and can purchase property as a spouse.

There may be other forms of long-term Social Visit visas other than the MM2H, Sarawak M2H, and Spousal visa that apply.  There is a Foreign Widow of Malaysian Spouse.

G. Foreign widow of Citizen
Form Imm.12/Imm.55
Form Imm.38
Marriage Certificate
Husband's Death Certificate
Child's Birth Certificate (where applicable)
Statutory Declaration (status-still a widow)
Security Bond
Covering letter of local sponsor
Sponsor's identification card
Sponsor's proof of financial support (income of equivalent to or more than RM2,000/month)

ODD that there is no mirror of this for widowers.