Verification of Hungarian Citizenship (by descent)

There's really not much you can do at this stage except fret and stew, but if you look in the long thread here on Simplified Naturalization I believe there are some posts regarding a similar problem.

Hi Zif,

Thanks for your response. My case differs due to it not being Simplified Naturalization and instead Verification of Citizenship. I know this can take twice as long as everything (my documentation and lineage) requires to be verified.

Just trying to determine if others have experienced the process I have had to, and if a case can only be put forward for Birth Registration once the individual has been deemed a Hungarian Citizen!

I wasn't clear. I meant that unmarried parents/grandparents should raise similar issues whether it's verification or simplified naturalization: in both cases you need to demonstrate satisfactory lineage. I recall that the poster in the other thread had a lot of difficulties because there was no marriage certificate before birth.

Again, not much you can do, except be aware that if there are out-of-wedlock births in your chain approval will be more involved.

I also think it will be a bit more hassle but don't give up.
Our son was given my surname when he was born and we didn't legally marry until he was 2 years old.
Had all papers though when we applied for his HU citizenship, court papers showing he had a legal name change to his father's surname, marriage papers for us etc.
We submitted everything through the HU embassy in S. Ca.
Was done 25 years back or more but if memory serves me, it was given to him within a few months time. Of course back then Hungary was still communist and not many people were applying for citizenship from the west.

Hi,
From experience I can say that the consular departments don't know anything and cannot help you. The only way you can find out the current status of your request for the verification of your Hungarian citizenship is calling the Budapest Metropolitan Offices, Department of Citizenship and Registry, 00-361-5501221 and talk to the actual registrar who is sitting on your request. Sorry, but for this-if you don't speak Hungarian- find one who does. Nobody will be ready to give out any info in English. Not many Hun. gov. officials know English.
First they will ask your name, date of birth, city of birth, maybe if you have already know your request's system number.
He or she will tell you the status .
I hope I could help.

Hello,

im in a similar situation to you regarding your family
so hopefully i get a yes to verification and registration of my birth

Hello I received my verification letter (by way of the local Hungarian Consulate) today! I  am Hungarian by way of proving my father is a Hungarian citizen.

It took 11 months to get official word back from Budapest to my local Consulate.

I am scheduled to go in for my HU passport in September. So excited!

Just letting everyone know i finally got my birth extract and a residence card in the mail today from the consulate not a verification letter for some reason

its been a long journey i remember applying 1 year 3 months ago but it finally is done

so i have asked the consulate to schedual a passport appointment so i can get that issued

Congratulations! I would like to pursue verification of citizenship via my great grandfather. He immigrated to the US in 1914 and married a 2nd generation Hungarian woman (my great grandmother). Do you think it could be possible to be verified as a great grandchild? Or do you know if Hungarian law only allows this to extend to grandparents?

Thank you.

For establishing citizenship by verification, you need to show that the chain passing Hungarian citizenship to you was not broken. That is, you need to show that each ancestor back to your GGF was a Hungarian citizen.

The problem is, Hungary once had a law, in effect in 1914, which usually terminated citizenship if a Hungarian was outside Hungary for more than ten years. If that law applied to your GGF, he could not pass Hungarian citizenship to his minor children. And a later law terminated Hungarian citizenship if a Hungarian acquired another citizenship. This could also apply to your GGF or another ancestor. To mention just a couple of issues, and not to even get into Trianon, if your GGF came from lands no longer part of modern Hungary.

The application of these and other Hungarian laws to old cases like yours becomes exceptionally complicated, and as a practical matter it can be impossible to demonstrate that the chain of citizenship was not broken.

Thus, most people in your case would go the Simplified Naturalization route, though that of course requires language study.

Whichever route you go, the essential starting document will be your GGF's birth record. If he emigrated in 1914, it's likely though not certain he was born before 1895, when the government started recording births (starting 1900 in Croatia). Births before then were recorded by the church, and it can sometimes be problematical tracking down these old church records.

Thank you for the information. I have located his birth record (not an official copy)  and my grandmother's  birth certificate (here in the US).  I do know he naturalized after my grandmother was born but before she was an adult (sometime between 1926 and 1940's.

He was originally from the borders of modern day Hungary. I read that the 10 years didn't start until the individual became an adult. So the 10 years would have expired in 1927. Then he could have been stripped of his citizenship. I did read somewhere else that the 10 year expiry wouldn't start for those who were of military age and hadn't served in the military, so, it's seems a bit confusing and convoluted.

I wonder for my great grandmother, since she was born to two Hungarians in the U.S. if because she was born (automatically) with U.S. citizenship, would she automatically lose her Hungarian citizenship? Or would she become a Hungarian again once she married my great grandfather (as a Hungarian citizen) would she gain her citizenship back?

I am not opposed to going the Simplified Naturalization route, and have started learning the language with tutors, however, if I could verify citizenship I would be a citizen from my birth on from a later date. I prefer this route if possible. I don't mean to derail the original topic. Thank you for any info.

The questions you raise are precisely the sort of questions that make verification a very complicated approach in old cases like yours.

I have also read that the ten-year rule was somehow suspended in certain cases during the war, but I have never come across the order itself suspending the rule so I don't know the details.

If you have plenty of time, I suppose you can gather all your documents, submit them and see the result. Then try Simplified Naturalization if they reject your application. Or, if you want an answer beforehand, hire at some expense a Hungarian immigration lawyer who has access to all the old orders and regulations and can apply them to your case.

jarschwar wrote:

I am not opposed to going the Simplified Naturalization route, and have started learning the language with tutors, however, if I could verify citizenship I would be a citizen from my birth on from a later date. I prefer this route if possible.

But the Simplified Naturalization (and the "regular" naturalization that becomes available after 8 years of residency) is your only option, and you need proof of your hungarian ancestry. There is an option for people who once were hungarian citizens but lost it somehow ("visszahonosítás"), but this doesn't apply to you.

Edit: I take that back, wasn't aware of the "verification of citizenship" route, always assumed that it was referring to SN...

I'd honestly be surprised if you qualified for verification of citizenship, but there's not enough information to say for sure. I'd start learning Hungarian to prepare for simplified naturalization.

Hey , i would like to ask
I just recieved my citizenship and passport,  same case , does in certificate it mention father Hungarian and mother  is not like i do ?

@bande11 Hi Bande 11.  I'm in Australia and on a bit of a research exercise into obtaining Hungarian citizenship by way of verification, and also more broadly - and specifically regarding people whose ancestors (usually grandparents and parents as children) left under communist rule post Word War II. I am aware that there are a lot of people in this category. I'm interested in corresponding with some to find out about how the process worked for them (or did not if it didn't). So, full disclosure, this is not about me specifically except is-so-far as it is my research!  It's importance is in relation to the Australian Constitutional bar on dual citizenship, which has been and remains a big issue here (as you may know). Anyone who makes contact with me is assured of privacy, in that their details and identity will remain with me alone and shared with no other unless they give their express approval.  Whatever I find out about the process may also be useful for others and undertake to share that.

@petromaya Hi .  I'm in Australia and on a bit of a research exercise into obtaining Hungarian citizenship by way of verification, and also more broadly - and specifically regarding people whose ancestors (usually grandparents and parents as children) left under communist rule post Word War II. I am aware that there are a lot of people in this category. I'm interested in corresponding with some to find out about how the process worked for them (or did not if it didn't). So, full disclosure, this is not about me specifically except is-so-far as it is my research!  It's importance is in relation to the Australian Constitutional bar on dual citizenship, which has been and remains a big issue here (as you may know). Anyone who makes contact with me is assured of privacy, in that their details and identity will remain with me alone and shared with no other unless they give their express approval.  Whatever I find out about the process may also be useful for others and undertake to share that.

@bande11

@petromaya Hi Damien, thanks so much!  Do you know what form of border papers, if any, your grandparents left Hungary with? (most then who left after the 1956 were refugees without any form of passport I believe). Plus would you be able to tell me their names?  If you are OK with that and don't want to do it in this blog, you could email me at [email protected]  If I have names I can see if they are listed on the refugee or other lists as stateless.

@petromaya Damien, maybe this (from national archives)? KOPINSKY Roszalia born 28 March 1928 - Hungarian - travelled per GENERAL TAYLOR on 25 June 1957. If not, can you give me a last name for them?

@bande11

Hi there,

I am a naturalized U.S. Citizen.

Do you speak Hungarian as one member mentioned that you need to speak to the actual person who is "sitting" on your case and it must be in their native language (Hungarian.) If you do not speak Hungarian, I am willing to help you out because I'm a native Hungarian. I myself was born and raised in the capital of Hungary (Budapest) and lived there until 1987 - that's when I was 29 years old.

I'm a private person, not a lawyer or anything like that. I am just sincerely willing to even write a letter in my native language to the person who can possibly move forward your case.

Have a great day!

Sincerely,

Robert

- @rb421

Robert, @bande11 has not been on the website in 3 years!

@bande11

Hi there,

I am a naturalized U.S. Citizen.

Do you speak Hungarian as one member mentioned that you need to speak to the actual person who is "sitting" on your case and it must be in their native language (Hungarian.) If you do not speak Hungarian, I am willing to help you out because I'm a native Hungarian. I myself was born and raised in the capital of Hungary (Budapest) and lived there until 1987 - that's when I was 29 years old.

I'm a private person, not a lawyer or anything like that. I am just sincerely willing to even write a letter in my native language to the person who can possibly move forward your case.

Have a great day!

Sincerely,

Robert

- @rb421

Robert, @bande11 has not been on the website in 3 years! - @SimCityAT

Not sure if this is already understood by you, but just in case, there is no language requirement for those who are applying for verification. Verification implies that one was born Hungarian and as such, all that is required is to provide the legal proof of that status. It cannot be denied for any reason if proven and if there is no basis for the applicant to have lost their citizenship, because the citizenship is not being acquired, but rather is already held since the moment of birth, and therefore it is only verified. There is no need for naturalization. When I got mine verified it was through a consulate in the United States and there was no issue with using English language to speak to those working there. That said, any required forms were written and completed in Hungarian and I used a translator who graciously assisted me in completing all the necessary paperwork.

@marklivesinla Hi Mark (I think your user name means you are Mark and live in Los Angeles, if so please give The Angels my love!). Thanks so much, that confirms what I thought, that it verifies an existing form of inherited citizenship, it is not an application for citizenship based on eligibility.

@marklivesinla Thanks Mark!  Excellent. Now here is the puzzle I am trying to solve, the full story because you clearly know a lot about this process of  verifying Hungarian citizenship.

@marklivesinla Thanks again Mark, this is really helpful!

@marklivesinla Thanks Mark, I of course regret your decision but I also respect it, and I'm also impressed with your word-smithing!  Unfortunately, the current subject matter expert is, to my mind a little deficient because, while being very expert indeed on Hungarian citizenship law, he seems to be somewhat constrained by being in Hungary. If you have knowledge of any experts / people very experienced in assisting people wrt processes, I would be very grateful if you direct me to them. We do have some financial resources, albeit modest, with which to engage their services. I'll also try independently of course, but I do know that such people are pretty rare in Australia and may also feel constrained. Having said that, we have not yet tapped into the Hungarian associations here. One of our difficulties is that the politician is Jewish and there were entirely false accusations of anti-Semitism levelled at my friend, their falseness shown among other things, by his success in a defamation suit against News Corp and supported by his donation of the net proceeds of circa $10,000 to the Holocaust Museum here.

If someone could confirm my conclusion that, assuming that the other conditions are met, I will qualify for simplified naturalization, i would appreciate it.

• My great-grandma was born in1875 in a town now located in Slovakia;
• We have a baptismal certificate that recites her DOB;
• Assume there is no other record of her birth;
• She arrived in New York in February, 1899 and reported she was Hungarian;
• She married a man whose ship arrived in New York in August, 1900;  and
• He declared he was Hungarian.

Issues I see are the possible lack of a birth certificate, no records about my great-grandfather, and the location of her birthplace in Slovakia. 

Do i have a realistic chance of success?

    If someone could confirm my conclusion that, assuming that the other conditions are met, I will qualify for simplified naturalization, i would appreciate it.My great-grandma was born in1875 in a town now located in Slovakia;We have a baptismal certificate that recites her DOB;Assume there is no other record of her birth;She arrived in New York in February, 1899 and reported she was Hungarian;She married a man whose ship arrived in New York in August, 1900;  andHe declared he was Hungarian.Issues I see are the possible lack of a birth certificate, no records about my great-grandfather, and the location of her birthplace in Slovakia.  Do i have a realistic chance of success?        -@onehsancare

IDK but I asume every paper you have that is in English will have to be legally translated into Hungarian for them to expect it. Signed by the translator etc. with all the offical seals stamped on.

I had to have everything translated from English into Hungarian just for a resident permit.

Best wishes.

You have essentially no chance of being a Hungarian citizen by verification for all sorts of reasons I'm too lazy today to set out.

There is a possibility you might qualify for Simplified Naturalization; church records before 1895 (1900 in Croatia) are official birth records.

However, in addition to a full chain of birth and marriage certificates showing your descent from your Hungarian ancestor, you'd have to be able to carry on a conversation in Hungarian to go the Simplified Naturalization route.