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HOW DO BLACK SOUTH AFRICAN LADIES FEEL ABOUT WHITE AMERICAN MEN?

Good day folks!

I have just recently arrived to Cape Town, SA where I work as a contract engineer. I just recently finished a similar project in UB, Mongolia, which is where I was headquartered prior to moving here. Must say that I am definitely enjoying the weather this time of year in SA compared to Mongolia. To my point - a very fun-loving and attractive (and tall) black lady who works in the corporate office of my employer, has invited me to her home for dinner, which I accepted. We have exchanged pleasantries with one another over the past couple of weeks, however, took me by surprise when she made this request. My question is, how will this be received by the populous of Cape Town (both white and black)? Quite honestly, I am not looking for the community’s consent in this, however, just looking for some words of advice/wisdom from those with a thumb on the pulse of Cape Town with much more insight and experience than I. I would also be interested in knowing how black African ladies feel about white American men? Especially those like myself here on long-term work assignments/agreements? The reason I ask, I am finding many of the black ladies very alluring and fun-loving. Any feedback at all will be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Hamish

Hi Hamish!

Welcome to our wonderful country! Speaking as an African woman, it is traditionally not our custom to initiate contact with a man. But, this is not the time of my Ugogo (grandmother) anymore. Our city is a very contemporary one. There are still those who cling to separation of the races, but most all African women find American men very appealing. You will find our women strong, warm hearts, full of courage and love to laugh! It is said that an African woman's laughter can be heard in the Heaven's!

Also consider that although calm and modern on the surface, Cape Town has one of the highest crime rates in Africa. Familiarize yourself with the areas to stay away from and you will be fine. Stay away from Long Street. Also be wary around the train station, city center and Bo-Kaap. You will soon find where and when to go, and not.

I am sure the woman you met at the office is fine. Looking at your picture, you are a good-looking man. The one thing you must think on, YOU ARE A MEAL TICKET!! Keep that in mind. Many of our women are vey beautiful and feminine. They will see you as an American as a means to America which they would give anything for. Always, always, remember this. I know you do not need me to tell you this but use protection always! Chances of you having contact with a woman with HIV/AIDS is very high. Also, you do not want to begin any unplanned families ;)

I think I have scared you enough for one day ;) Enjoy yourself in South Africa!

Welcome Hamish. owethu has given you good information. Most "real" African women are searching for the same thing most "real" men are. My only advice to you is be careful in choosing a woman to spend time with. As owethu said, you will be looked up as "food" by many women. No, not that they want to eat you, but you are the answer to all their prayers ;)

Many Expat American men and Afrikaaners prefer African women over white women. We make very good girlfriends and treat our men like Kings. This is seen by the many "Cape Coloureds" which are quickly becoming a major group in South Africa. I do not mean this in a mean way, that our women are somhow superior to white women. But our women tend to be a more assertive, stronger and vibrant group than white women. White men seem to like this. And we have very powerful moves when we get our hips sashaying!! ;)

Have a happy date with your new African lady. Do not worry about what the zinyuka's think who still grieve the death of Apartheid?  They are very few and voice has been silenced.

Ngenhlonipho,

Siphiwe

Hamish,

I am going to give you the Devil’s advocate response. I have lived in SA all my life between Durban, Pretoria, Johannesburg and now Cape Town. I have met many Americans like you - good-looking, educated with great jobs working in foreign lands. It is only natural you would see all that is good in your immediate surroundings. Nothing wrong with that and a prerequisite for anyone hoping to prosper socially or economically.

Now, because you are a young, independent professional, much of your success is tied to reputation. Although you may work for a mining conglomerate, these institutions are still at the mercy of banking houses, suppliers, municipalities who ease the burden of regulations, agreements (or intensify them), board of directors, etc.  Where I am headed with this memoir, is that there is a political etiquette and balance which must be preserved.

Bear in mind that the Afrikaner “Old Guard” is still very much in charge of what transpires in and around Cape Town. I am speaking of the direct descendants of the Huguenots and Boers. Nothing moves in Cape Town without the direct consent of Johann Rupert, Christo Wiese, Lauritz Dippenaar and several other very powerful men like them. Bear in mind that these are very conservative and traditional Afrikaners who despise the fall of apartheid and everything it represents. Men such as these are also the reason you do not see white Afrikaner men with black women. Yes, there are a few exceptions of course, however, the white Afrikaner men who do so, will always live on the fringe of acceptable white society, and have a remedial station in all aspects of life while they make SA their home.

I know it is tempting. There are some amazingly beautiful black African women prancing about town who have an old guy like me turning their head from time to time. However, it is important to look, do not touch. I would be wary were I you, about dating black African women while working in the employ of one of the largest mining corporates in the world. You need to also remember that Nicky Oppenheimer is part of this “Old Boys” club. As I am sure you are aware, Oppenheimer is a Cape Town native, CEO of De Beers diamond mining company and of its subsidiary, the Diamond Trading Company, and former Deputy Chairman of the Anglo-American Corporation. In other words, his franchise has incredible influence over your employer. Oppenheimer would love nothing more than the apartheid policy to once again be in place. Now fast forward - you are not only showing a romantic proclivity for the black African ladies, however, picking them up right out of your employers front office. Do you see where I am going with this?

I am simply saying that there is no upside to you dating black African ladies, however there is a definite and deliberate downside. You live in a world where your reputation is tantamount to your continued success. Why intentionally make a decision that could hinder your career over women who you are simply passing by in life? In another 10 years, what you do here, may make a huge difference in how your professional career develops and ends. Also consider that you will be living here for a year. It is much more pleasant to be welcomed by the Cape Town society than be shunned by it. Think about it.

After reading the post of Finn_Voss, it gives a very grim side to the politics of Cape Town. I am not discounting Finn-Voss post, but can assure you that interracial dating is very visible to anyone who is not blind. This being said, there is much truth to many of the things Finn-Voss has said. The upper echelon in Cape Town do have an unwritten code of not involving blacks in any way of daily life. They are such a minute group however, they barely matter anymore. More importantly, the younger generation are "color-blind" and even the most traditional Afrikaners have black girlfriends, although they may not flaunt in the face of their families. I know of one very high ranking official's son, whose name I will not say, that has just asked a woman of the Bantu tribe to be his wife. This has caused a shockwave with the Afrikaner elites, however shows the changing times in South Africa.

Hamish, you should follow your heart and soul. Do not allow others to direct your path to destiny. It is when we do what we know to be right in our heart that life begins to matter.

Okay, time to jump in here. Cape Town native, educated, yada, yada, yada. Hamish, gonna give you the unvarnished version. If you date your black girl, keep it quiet and private, then you’ll have no worries bra. Flaunt her in public, then Finn is right, the descent people of Cape Town won’t give you the time of day. Another thing you better consider, there is a whole group of hot-blooded blacks just waiting to find you at night bra, and they may not just stop at relieving you of your tom, but give you a beating like you never imagined. Not everyone in the black community is as civilized and tolerant as owethu and siphiwe. If you can’t stay away from your tall, attractive meit, then stick to the tourist routes around town, and always during the day. If you want my opinion? Find an attractive stukkie around town. Cape Town is loaded with gorgeous blond, blue-eyed stukkie’s who love Americans and do not know the meaning of the word no. Of course, that is my good advice to you. Just believe me bra, save yourself a world of grief.

Hi Hamish!

Welcome to SA! Cape Town is the last of the South African cities that has not as quickly spiraled to third world status. However, this is not the city of my father and mother, and in a few years, will be no different than Zimbabwe. Compounding the problem, many of the higher performing professionals have left SA for other countries to include engineers, developers, lawyers, physicians, information technologists, etc., people who grow your infrastructure and stimulate commerce. Although most business remain white controlled, and there is that beacon of civility, the Royal Cape Yacht Club which overlooks the city, it is easy to remain in denial. Even I who live in the suburban Newlands sometimes think things aren't so bad, until I begin reflecting what I experienced. However, anyone sighted, cannot miss the loads of combis dropping off countless immigrants from Nigeria and Senegal. Also, the huge increase in African markets downtown.

Hamish, I know this must sound harsh to an America, however, you will have few supporters if you are parading around Cape Town with black women on your arm. I do not believe you will receive much flack from the blacks as Sean said, but Finn_Voss is right, the white Afrikaan population will despise you for this. Do not look down upon us for this, without understanding why we feel this way. Our land, our life is slowly being taken from us by an uncompassionate black population which continues to increase. You must understand that after the ANC took power in the 1990's, there has been an economic and cultural attack on white provinces in SA. Cape Town is the last to cling on to some form of civility, but comes at a cost to white Afrikaan's.

We women especially have it very difficult here. black African women tend to be very aggressive and strong. To their credit, black African women are raised to be much more fierce, and harder than European founded cultures. They are much harder than we both physically and mentally. In short, they are just much more physically imposing than we are. Imagine what it is like to be a young white Afrikaan girl, growing up in Cape Town. Now imagine you are walking down the street in the country of your birth (and your ancestors), and being made to move out of the way every time a black African woman walks past you. Imagine being with your friends out in the evening, in what you believe to be a civil night club, and black African women make a point of elbowing you, making you walk around them, taking your table when you and your friends go on the dance floor (even though your sweaters and drinks still on table). Imagine that you are dealing with a population of people who feel they were oppressed for eons, and now have the power to make your life miserable every chance they can, and do. Although this has not happened to me, I have many friends who have been beaten very badly (two requiring medical attention) by African women who somehow felt disrespected, or they just didn't like our looks.

I am sorry to be so graphic, but want you to have a glimpse as to why things are as they are. The African women are also very aggressive in pursuing white men. It is not only because they prefer white men over their own, they do. A black African woman will marry most any white man who shows her interest, and do most anything to trap him if necessary. I am hoping to give you a real-life view of why we feel this way. Look, I do have a few black girl-friends, however the cultural differences are huge, and often times not compatible. For example, they are offended by "everything" and I mean EVERYTHING! They want an apology for near everything you say. For example, I saw one of the black girls I know who was with her boyfriend. After she did not introduce me, I introduced myself, I thought everything was fine. Later that day, she angrily approached me, grabbed me by the arms and began shaking me like a rag-doll. She began scolding me like a child because she did not give me permission to address "her man". She told me in her culture, I would have been beaten for this. I am giving this an as example. Keep in mind this woman has a degree from University of Cape Town.

Hamish, you may be surprised if you knew what your cute black girl has experienced growing up. Believe me, you can not even fathom what she has been through. Black women in Africa are taught to fight as young girls to build a pecking order among the tribes. They will also fiercely fight with one another for a man. Black men often beat their wives if they feel they step out of line, even for the smallest things. White men do not, and black women see this as weakness and vulnerability. I have heard them say more than once. Once they latch onto a white man, they generally end up controlling the relationship as they are so strong mentally and have indomitable wills. What I mean by this, they will quickly wear down their white mate, and will take full control of the relationship. This happens 100% of time, trust me.

All being said :) Welcome to SA Hamish!!!

I do not usually post here. Emma, you are what my people call "iwundlu elincane elesabekayo". Speaking as a black African woman, you are right. You have no idea where we have come from or how difficult it is to be an African woman. More important the hopelessness felt by generations of our elders at the hands of visitors to our land. A white woman would never survive the trials and hardships that an African woman must. You are right. We are stronger, and hardier than white women. You left out more determined. A white woman will give up when she has difficulty getting what she wants. An African woman will not stop until she does. I am sorry that you and your friends have had uncomfortable experiences at the hands of African women. Imagine what their lineage has suffered? I will not relive ancient history as it does not help. In my opinion, white women are having a difficult time competing with African women, as we are all the things you said, and we treat the husband as King in our home and the children. We also take whatever time is necessary to be appealing to our husband. I believe this is what white women are most afraid of.

Hamish you must ask yourself, are you the Lion or the Mouse? The Lion is respected and revered. The Mouse, no one ever notices. I hope you have dated your African woman. She will most likely treat you like you have never been treated. 😈

Emma dear, as a black woman in SA, I understand your frustration and also that of siphiwe. Emma dear, SA will never again be the country of your parents and their parents. This is also true of any country in the world, although ours has went through a more accelerated and radical change over the past 30 years. I am truly sorry dear for the poor treatment you have received from black women. Please understand that they do not represent all of our people and certainly do not represent me. siphiwe like me, have heard the stories of how brutally our families were treated and oppressed during the time of Apartheid that makes your stories appear tame in comparison. So understand where these deep-imbedded feeling originate. Our people have suffered like no people should suffer. That was then, this is now. It is now a time for healing. Emma dear, I know that I cannot change your perception of us. I can only tell you that I understand. What I can tell siphiwe, the next time she feels slighted or dealt with dismissively by a white person, simply smile and try to befriend them. They will not accept. However, continue to be a good neighbor to them, support them and be kind to them. Greet indifferent stares with smiles, and unkind words with pleasant salutations. In time, hopefully Emma dear, you will learn that in your darkest time, feeling hopelessly lost and helpless - you can rest your head upon my shoulder, cry and know that I will be there to help you rise again and look together across the beautiful blue skies and gaze upon the highveld, and bushveld, in all of OUR South Africa.

Wow! This is some amazing feedback! Much better information than I hoped for. Allow me to say I followed the wisdom of Oweth and Siphiwe. My gracious host (Busisiwe) invited me to her lovely flat in Plumstead. To recap the evening, it was wonderful! I wish she had not went through so much trouble, as she prepared a meal fit for a King! Just some of the dishes she prepared was Denningvleis, Boerewors, Chakalaka & pap, malva pudding and the list didn’t stop there. The food was perhaps the best I have ever eaten and something I could definitely get used to. I am unsure if this is customary, however whenever my plate would empty of a course of food, or drink would get near empty, Busisiwe would immediately fill it back up. It was she did not want me to do this? I thought it was charming, just not used to it. As it turns out,  Busisiwe is a graduate of the University of Cape Town and has received a B.S. degree in Chemistry. She specializes in transition metal chemistry and structural chemistry (whatever that is). She said she is working for Rio Tinto as a receptionist just to get her foot in the door, however, hopes they recognize her application one day and say, “hey…… isn’t that the girl with the friendly smile at the front desk?” Perhaps when I have been here a few months and make a few presentations, I will make sure she receives the right introductions 😉 We sat on the couch the rest of the evening, sipping a bottle of Riesling that I had brought locally, while I bored her with my tales of the wandering gypsy contract engineer; and she shared interesting details of her life in SA. We did not discuss the more serious issues discussed here, however, kept the conversation light and friendly. To reciprocate, I have asked her to have dinner with me at Rick’s Café Americain. I understand it to be reasonably priced while serving great food. After dinner, I hope to stroll with her down Adderley street to work off our meal and take in the fresh air.

Dumêla rra!!

My name is Karabo. I felt compelled to add my comments to this thought provoking topic. Hamish, I am very happy that your date with your young lady was a success. Remember, people the world over, are very similar. We all love, hate, cry, jump with joy, become envious, show random acts of kindness, etc. It is only fear which separates us from one another in joining as one in the world community. In my South Africa, I can honestly say that this generation of our youth are much more accepting of diverse cultures/races and communicative with one another. I spoke with my daughter just the other day - she and her friends visited the Cocoon Night Club. Her first words were that the club was a mix of blacks, whites, Indian and coloureds. She was so delighted how well everyone was mingling and having fun. She said there were several groups of mixed races laughing and having fun together. I believe slowly, the fear will decapitate and we will all live harmoniously and be good neighbors to one another.

Hamish, you will still have many championing the Old Guard mentality, however they are generally much older, or if young, very much in the minority. I am a Professor at the University in Stellenbosch in the Cape Winelands. One of my observations is that overall, the youth of our country is becoming much more educated, and with increased awareness, breeds healthy tolerance. Each one of my students whether black, white, coloured, Indian, I consider my children. We are all God's children, why would I do less. Hamish, you have chosen a spectacular moment to visit our South Africa - WELCOME!!

Okay Bra. Firstly thanks for your message board. Finally a message board of interest to people here. I was hardly ever logging in, now I find myself checking in every 2-3 days to see if this topic is updated. Hamish, it is your choice. The black women on this board, are educated and I am sure living good lives. They are not as you Americans would say, your "garden variety black person". All I am saying is that there is no possible benefit to living in Cape Town and dating a black woman? There is definitely a downside that could lead to repercussions to adversely effecting your career. There are many in our community that would be outraged seeing you in the company of a black woman. Have you even asked her how she was raised, or what her definition of a man is? Ask to meet her family, see her reaction. Especially an American. The problem is, the people who count, and have limitless power here, would ensure your employer was aware they were unpleased by the sort of people they were bringing in to work for them (meaning you). Trust me bra, your employer will get rid of you in a minute, if any one of many power players were to contact them and simply suggest it was "disturbing". Is it fair? No. Is it the way the world works? Yes.  Sorry bra, but you have come to a country riddles by politics. Bra, I am sure you are as good as it gets in your profession or you wouldn't be here. All I am saying, don't put your career in jeopardy over a leggy meit. Listen to me, please bra, you have everything to loose, nothing to gain the path you are on.

Okay sean-devaroe. Your mind is stuck in the Apartheid era. You are peddling the very fear spoke on by Karobo_Mom. SA is a black country. We share it with whites who came here to settle. You believe that if Hamish finds comfort in the arms of a black woman, that he will be ostracized by the elites in SA. Let me let you in on a little secret. THEY DON'T CARE!!  Apologies, but it has to be said. The only people who harbor bad feelings for Hamish dating a black woman, are old white men with no influence and young white boys who have been beaten into submission African style; now afraid to go outside without looking out the window first. Which one are you sean-devaroe?

Hamish, black SA women are strong, sexy and loving. White women are threatened by what we have to offer a man, any man. We also do not put up with any BS. Any white woman disrespects me, and she will be laying on the ground, holding the side of her face (sorry owethu, Karobo_Mom). I refuse to be disrespected in my own country. Hamish, enjoy your black woman. As you come to know her, the magic of her African heart will entrance you.

I could not disagree more with siphiwe. It is easy for anyone to see that siphiwe is a pround, intelligent, but angry black woman.  Siphiwe is typical of the women who I referred to above who victimized and tormented my friends and I growing up, and to this day. She support the social double standard in SA today. A story in which the President of our country can argue in Parliament that people who are in the minority (us) should have less rights and in which he openly argues that every single thing that is wrong with this country can be laid at the feet of the “white man’s ancestors.”

To support this double standard, White people are said to be “land thieves” because we took another people’s land. Strange, because that is exactly what Shaka did and it is exactly what Mzilikazi did. It appears then that where black people killed each other, took each other’s land and even committed genocide, it doesn’t matter, because they were black.

It is interesting the atrocities committed by white people of the Vlakplaas unit of the former SAP are stressed in history books. It is held up as an example of white cruelty. At the same time, the tortures of black people committed by the ANC at Quattro and other ANC camps in Africa, are ignored.

I could go on, but it all ties to Black privilege whose goal is to implement racist policies and then call it “transformation”. It is the privilege to sift potential candidates for the appointment of judges based on their willingness to execute the ANC’s political ideology. It is the privilege to lash out against apartheid for implementing racist policies, but to then turn around and do the exact same thing and get away with it.

Okay, I am off my soapbox now. However, could not sit back and stay silent while white SA’s are losing more and more of their identity each day. I will admit that it is true that more and more white Afrikaner men are mingling with black women in SA. Black women are like seductive sirens. They dress seductively, wear “white” or straight-hair styled long wigs, pastel eye-shadow, western clothing, etc. Being a woman, I will admit, many black women look hot when all done up. Thanks to the sometimes strange, but  trendsetting USA, a black woman’s body has become the example, of what a well-developed woman should look like. I should also point out, that they also have more testosterone (about 9% to be exact) than white women, evident by their muscle tone and huskier voices. Even odder to me, men seem to find this attractive. This is what also makes them so much more aggressive than we when they see a white boy who they set their sights on. Why do you believe the huge boom in the coloured population? This has become a joke among the blacks. They laugh and joke that they will breed us out, before running us out.

Hamish, I strayed a little off topic, however wanted to give you the perspective from a traditional white Afrikaner lady brought up in a good home. I recommend you go back and read the earlier post of finn_voss. He is very accurate in his review of your position. There is no upside for you to date a black SA woman, only a downside. Hamish, I checked you out, and see you have been all over the world, most recently Mongolia, and appear well-thought of everywhere you go. I am not a palm-reader, however, would venture to guess that a well-educated, intelligent, and good-looking man if I may add, is being paid a very hefty sum for selling your skills along the world market? Do you honestly believe that finn_voss, Devaroe and I are making all this up? Where would be the benefit to our doing so? You seem like a good guy with much on the ball – do not put what you have worked so hard to achieve in jeopardy (even if only a 1% chance), because you have chosen dark meat over white meat for Christmas dinner 😊

Hey Hamish,

As a fellow Angeleno and the same age as you with a similar roaming gypsy line of work, I would have stuck with Mongol women.

I know you are level headed and keeping your nose to the grind, just be careful with your flings.

Most of the replies here are telling be aware of your employer, white society...etc as a matter of planting fear in your mind about something you want to do. They should simply answer: don't do it, it's against what we believed is right for years.
99% of the people in this world just follow: follow their parents, follow their society, their traditions...etc. I'm not saying that following is always wrong, but also most of the people what made the biggest change in our world went out of the box that people around them created.
The messengers like Jesus, Abarham, Mohammed, Moses...they all were against their communities traditions, for example their communities were worshiping statuses instead of the one God and they came to change that , but their communities didn't like them or even respect them, they tortured/executed them, but does that means they were wrong?.
Also the scientists that were burnt in Europe because of the ideas that doesn't comply with what their communities or churches believe. But those scientists made the current modern physical world happen.
IMO, "don't do it because of x,y or z won't like it" doesn't judge if what am doing is right or wrong.
More reading on the "following" business:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/af … -the-crowd
I don't want to get into the details of the debate happening here. I'm happy to see people are expressing themselves honestly. I have been in SA for around six years, but I think SA still need a lot to do when it comes to discrimination/racism.

I'm ending quoting this form Emma about black ladies:
"They dress seductively, wear “white” or straight-hair styled long wigs, pastel eye-shadow, western clothing, etc. Being a woman, I will admit, many black women look hot when all done up."

I think there are damn hot ladies on both sides, also coloured so thanks all. So calm down guys, no one will lose his identity or whatever myths they telling you :)

Good day everyone:

Hope everyone’s Christmas was happy and healthy!

I want to thank “Metto81” and “fouadroumieh” for your thoughtful comments. It is truly appreciated.  Metto81, interesting that you suggested I be “careful about the flings”. I have gotten to know one of my work associates quite well and he said nearly the very same thing as you, just yesterday. He is an expat from England, working fulltime with Rio Tinto. He has been in Cape Town for 12 years now, and advised that although SA is progressive overall, Cape Town’s establishment, has remained very set in its ways and able to resist many of the changes established by the anti-apartheid coalition, by assuring that those who remain in control are in lockstep with one another. His main point was that because I am an American, may be forgiven a few transgressions, however, if I make a habit of romancing black ladies and prancing them around traditionally white establishments, it is a slap in the face of white society and it only a matter of time before someone talks to someone at Rio Tinto who may not readily retaliate, however assure my contract would not be extended nor receive a favorable referral from my work here, regardless of accomplishment or proficiency. Like you Metto81, he just felt the cons outweighed the pros too heavily in this matter.

Metto81, you make a very good point (I would have stuck to Mongol women).  Mongolian women are unbelievable. I was in UB, Mongolia for just over ½ years, and can absolutely recommend the Mongolian ladies as the most alluring of the Asians on the planet. Not to get off topic, but Mongolian ladies are by far the tallest and shapeliest of the Asians, and personalities which more closely resemble the Russians than Asian. When I strolled through Sukhbaatar Square on warm days, it was not uncommon for me to see several Mongolian women 5′7″, 5′8″ even up to 5′10″. What stands out just as much, is that these ladies have shapes and many pronounced bust-lines; mainly due to diet (meat/dairy). They appear physically to be much stronger built than other Asians. Actually, I have made a point that although I am not allergic to female companionship, I have vowed to not allow romantic ventures to interfere with my professional goals. Subsequently, vowed that I will not be marrying a foreign lady when abroad, as I do not wish to lose focus of my primary mission which is one of a professional nature. If I was to look for a serious love interest or wife abroad, then believe me, I would have found a wife when in Norway. The Norwegian ladies are unbelievably beautiful, very educated and cultured; do have a cool way about them. You practically have to be a millionaire to live in that country. I truly enjoyed Norway. I remember being in a pub in Stockholm and seeing a group of young blonde-haired, blue-eyed girls laughing at a table.  The first thing that came to my mind, is that they could be a volleyball team (all tall), or getting ready for a beauty pageant. 

Getting back to my present-day situation with Busisiwe, she is amazing.  She has done everything responsibly and right in her life, and the last thing she thinks about is politics or the struggle between the white and black community. I have read Emma’s post and fully understand that because I am an American, the feelings Busisiwe has for me may be different than those she harbors for resident Cape Townian’s. Actually, Busisiwe and I had Christmas dinner at Rick’s Café Americain’s on Park Road. Felt like we had just entered Casablanca during yuletide season. We were sat right next to the ornate fireplace, and was so cozy we did not wish to leave. I will not deny that we received some discerning stares, especially during our predestined stroll down Adderley street. I can see why many of the white ladies may feel threatened by some of the educated, more progressive black women in Cape Town. Busisiwe although very submissive in nature, and charming, is also very strong of body and mind. I finally asked her how tall she is, and was surprised to hear that she was 183 cm. In 3” heels, she was looking me directly in the eye (not complaining). She is very delightful to be with. She is from the local Zulu tribe and showed me photos of her in traditional dress. Although a contemporary woman, she is still very much a traditional black African woman. I shared my pleasant Christmas day experience with my careful British friend, who of course warned me that African women are brought up and trained their entire lives on how to please a man, and make him feel important. The moral of his story is that although it can be intoxicating and self-esteem building when in the company of a black African woman (they will make sure it is all about you), I must remember, this is what they have been trained to do, and girls from the age of 13, are taught how to please their husband in every imaginable way. It is important to add, that I have been to many countries on every continent of the world. I believe there is wisdom in what my British friend has advised, as well as Metto81. For now, I am leaning somewhere in-between the wise counsel of Metto81 and fouadroumieh. My career is what is most important here, and reputation is tantamount to success. Reputation is the life’s blood of a contract engineer. The court is still out on this one, however will admit, each time I am in the company of Busisiwe, there is no place I would rather be in that moment of time. I am open to any and all suggestions, as Cape Town’s social infrastructure is much, much different than other places I have lived.

HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone!! 🍸🍾🎆🎊🥂🕛

Hope everyone has begun those New Year resolutions, hahaha. Hamish stated.... "If I was to look for a serious love interest or wife abroad, then believe me, I would have found a wife when in Norway"..... and may I ask my dear Hamish, how do you find we white South African ladies?  Just curious. I am sure your tall, curvy black girlfriend is keeping you all to herself ;) I am just curious, as white Afrikaner women have been heralded as some of the most sought-after ladies on the planet? Just asking.

And please do not judge us. Imagine this Hamish. you are a person of Jewish descent, living in a predominant Jewish village. A Jewish woman from another land comes for a short-term work assignment in your country. She immediately begins taking up with one of the local Nazi Officers, and together they parade all through your village, enjoying a Christmas dinner in a restaurant right next to where you are dining. Of course you should agree that the Jewish population in the village just need to get over it, stop living in the past, and accept the Jewish woman and her Nazi lover as one of their own. And of course you should just ignore the loads of combis dropping off countless Nazis infiltrating every part of Cape Town, soon to make you the minority in your own land. Now consider that some of the village elders representing the Jewish community, are corporate magnates who employ your company to provide services. I know this is an extreme scenario, however you must understand that the sentiment of the scenario I have just given, is very similar to that of white Afrikaner men and women. Just last March,  Jacob Zuma of the ANC went as far as proposing that the constitution of the republic be amended to allow for the expropriation of land. White Afrikaner people are fearful of extinction in the growing insanity of envy and obsession with the past. Extinction of a society which they developed and cultivated to allow prosperity for all. When the economic arteries of the white Afrikaner people are blocked, our existence is compromised. Take away a peoples slice of bread and you have taken away our existence.

Hamish, I truly wish you a blissful stay in Cape Town. I am certain that Busisiwe is a captivating and alluring young lady. All I am saying, is be careful and watch your step. The politics of SA is unlike any you have faced, I can assure you of that.

Good morning Hamish!

Are you having fun yet young man? 😉 My name is Lerato from the western Cape. It is my great pleasure to meet you, and honor to welcome you to South Africa. I have often journeyed into this Expat site, however, never triggered my curiosity until now. I am very interested in this subject matter and the myriad of emotions it inspires from people from all walks of life.

The first thing I noticed here, is that everyone who has contributed comments, are very good and honorable people who all have much more in common than they do not. Each of the members here are good, compassionate, giving, honorable people. However, the topic of a white American dating a local black African girl in our midst has generated such emotion? I am actually a product of such a relationship. My estranged husband was a white Afrikaner and I from the Nguni people. Between the both of us, we gave life to two beautiful bi-racial children, often referred to as Coloureds. To say that life was simple for my children growing up, was anything but. However, I always taught them to have integrity, honor, principle, and always defend those unable to defend themselves. My oldest daughter is now attending the University of Western Cape and son has committed to the University of Oxford, UK in the fall, where he will also play Rugby football.

To Emma. My dear, South Africa will always be South Africa. Be confident that we will always find a way forward as one people, black and white. Emma my dear, may I point out that the facts and statistics you pointed out regarding Zuma and the ANC, were in fact scribed by esteemed journalist Rita Kufandarerwa, she herself a black, Western Cape woman? And Emma my dear, let me let you in on a little secret, I am not a fan of President Zuma either, as I believe his politics are divisive. My dear, what I am suggesting to you, is do not paint all black SA’s with the same brush because we are of the same complexion. I will draw no more analogies my dear, I am just asking you to keep your mind open and follow the path of owethu on this board, who seems to have found a peaceful manner in which to coexist.

Hamish, I give you the same advice as I did to my children, be your own man, do not allow the fear and uncertainty of others to cloud your way, and detour you from a path that may lead to a blissful happiness we all strive to obtain, however, rarely achieve. Your young lady Busisiwe sounds as if she is a delightful lady. You will find that many of the ladies from  the Zulu are very tall. The Zulu for many years were a very fierce warrior society, who focused on bringing tall, strong, fierce sons into the world. Well of course, more often than not, a beautiful little girl was born. Your Busisiwe is a product of this tradition. In hearing you describe her, she seems wonderful and delightful. Your "careful British friend" is correct, black African women are trained from a young age how to please and care for their future husband, putting him before all and anyone. That is of course Hamish, until she graduated from the university ;) Allow your heart, sprinkled with a little mindful oversight be your guide Hamish, and you will find your way. Do not allow the fears of others to cloud your judgement.

@EmmaCape

Your example has nothing to do with the reality, you made the victimized that is a black lady look like the Nazi. You should have used a true examples of how the black community suffered from the oppression of the whites (same as Nazis did) during the apartheid. You didn't accept them to exist equally around you during apartheid, and now its a kind of hidden apartheid you want it to continue running. You making it a big shame for someone just to think about dating a black lady, this is apartheid business also!
You said "Extinction of a society which they developed and cultivated to allow prosperity for all."
For all!, can you give us an example of how it was during apartheid?

Also you said "When the economic arteries of the white Afrikaner people are blocked, our existence is compromised."
We all know that the biggest economy portion is still in the hands of the whites in SA, are you telling truth here? Aren't you telling Hamish be careful of your White employer? Or you just want to make them look like victims?
This is what you wrote in a previous comment "Although most business remain white controlled, and there is that beacon of civility, the Royal Cape Yacht Club which overlooks the city, it is easy to remain in denial."

Do you believe that people are created equally?! The color is just a color.

WOW! I came across this topic and felt compelled to add my voice.  i am shocked at some of the comments here. First and foremost I want to say that in this day and age people should have the right to date whomever they want to regardless of color or background. What it comes down to is a personal choice which has nothing to do with anyone else.

Secondly, if my employer had an issue with who I was dating because of their color there is something really wrong with him. Who I date does not affect the quality of my work and has nothing to do with the company. In fact I think it would be a direct violation of my rights if I were penalized due to who I date.

I think that people need to grow up and accept that the world is changing and those who generalize and claim that an entire race or culture is the same are very narrow minded.
I am an educated and intelligent colored woman. The old regime like to say the colored people are useless, are high school drop outs, have many babies and dont want to work. Many of us have proved you wrong. We are educated, plan our families and live very decent lives.  I have dated and befriended people from all races and many different countries and what I can say after this is that people are individuals. Who are we to say that it cant work because of differences?? sometimes those very differences bring people closer and makes things more exciting.

I can also say that in my entire existence I have never been disrespected or treated badly by any of my black friends. I have however experienced a very horrible racist experience from two white guys who were having a bad day and attacked me simply for being the wrong color in their presence so tell me again how great white people are and how bad black people are... Never the less I did not hold their actions against my white boyfriend because he is a completely different person with different opinions and thoughts so how do you hold one incident against an entire race.

@Emma not only black men abuse their wives or girl friends. White men do it too, indian men do it, colored men do it. In every race and background there are bad people and it is naive and simply just stupid to say some of the things you have said.Comparing the black people to the Nazis and white people to the Jewish???? I think you have your wires crossed.  I also feel that any person who allows others to decide how they live their lives and who they date is very sad. Its a free country and people are old enough and intelligent enough to make their own choices in life and love. 

Its a new world and holding on to the old ways is what causes the violence and hatred. Beneath the color of our skin we are all the same. We are individuals with our own unique personalities and ideas. We all have the capacity to love. We are all human and screw anyone who says differently.

Hamish, Howzit my bru?

Hamish, please do not take this the wrong way, however, I look forward to any updated post on this blog every morning when I make my morning cup of moerkoffie. Do not want you to think my amusement comes at your expense. I am anything but polished and refined – educated yes, but the polish never took. I am in agreement with most everything Lerato wrote. I am in agreement with most anyone educated, empathetic and upright. Where I am at cross-purposes with many of the upstanding and well-intentioned black citizenry of South Africa, is that they profess, and believe in hope for equality of all peoples of South Africa, however, when it comes time to execute their vote, we receive a divisive Jacob Zuma…. and now, Cyril Ramaphosa. I will go out on a limb and profess, he is an immediate improvement over Zuma.  Ramaphosa at present, is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. Ramaphosa, one of the wealthiest men in South Africa, has been accused for being in league with the white ruling class, Johann Rupert, Christo Wiese, Lauritz Dippenaar and other previously mentioned. Because of this, many of the hardline ANC are calling him a “white-puppet?” That being said, white Afrikaners had no greater enemy during the anti-apartheid movement than Ramaphosa, considered a ruthless butcher. He is also known to be somewhat of a pirate, Ramaphosa became a major beneficiary in empowerment deals during the dismantling of apartheid. He appointed selected individuals to gain access to not only substantial wealth but also to ensure that such beneficiaries would donate substantial moneys to the ANC.

I got a little carried away with politics, sorry everyone, if you know how I deplore politics. I have read every comment on this blog, a couple of times. If everyone thought like Lerato, owethu, Silky33, and Karabo-Mom, then everyone in the hemisphere would be trying to immigrate to South Africa. I wish Karabo_Mom would run for President, would have voted for her myself. Sorry Siphiwe, a little too revolutionary in your approach for me 😉 No worries, I like that about you! On the surface, Hamish is but a grain of sand on the back of the powder keg which is Cape Town. I can see why Hamish does not understand the turmoil over his dating Busisiwe, as he is applying his American value system to a culture very foreign to his own. He sees a beautiful, tall, elegant woman who adores him. He is in an exotic land, not lacking for resources, and being pampered by Busisiwe in ways he may have never experienced before (remember Hamish, I have lived in SA all my life, I know the traditions, and nurturing ways of Zulu women well). Hamish is living in the enchanted cottage, has a job envied by many, and returns home to his beautiful Busisiwe waiting to lavish him with her care and attention (Hamish, feel free to stop when any of what I am suggesting sounds unfamiliar).

I maintain my original guidance to you Hamish. I would give most anything to be you. And in truth, were I you - knowing me and my tenacious Afrikaner heart, would tell everyone to be hanged and pursue my romantic bond with Busisiwe. However bru, we are not talking about Finn, we are talking about Hamish. I ask you one question, and this is basically what this matter comes down to and no escaping it: Are you in a financially stable and secure position, were your future employment endeavors were to come crashing down tomorrow, and evaporate forever; that you could walk away with a smile and say out loud, “It was one Hell of a run!” - return to wherever you are from in the USA, find the woman of your dreams, have a brood of kids and live happily ever after? If the answer is yes, then I say by all means, continue to romance ladies of any skin type that meet your fancy in Cape Town, and enjoy the fruits of life. Why bother over perceived objections to your fancy for Busisiwe, which someone said earlier, has a less than 1% chance of adversely impacting your career? On the other hand bru…… if the answer is no….. or you would like to compound that nest egg, at least over the next 5-10 years, then my sage counsel to you is steer clear of black African ladies, especially those working in the front office. Believe me, I know the politics of this city, and you cannot be doing yourself any favors career wise. Is it fair? Of course not. Is it a prime example of South Africa’s need to improve upon its social acceptance of people of all races and color? You know it! But, the question is Hamish, is there the slightest chance you could be impacted career wise?…. Hamish, the only thing I place more importance on than my career, is my wife and three noisy children. Everything else comes in at a very distant second. My advice to you bru, is sit down and create a priority pyramid and follow it from top to bottom. You mentioned earlier in one of your posts that you have remained focused on your prime objective (your career) all these years, and would not allow international romances detour you. Why get off the wagon now?

Koebaai for now bru.

No disrespect to anyone here but I think it's ridicules and old fashioned to believe that your personal life should concern anyone else. Another form of oppression. Just my humble opinion but to each his own :-) I wish you all the best Hamish and can only hope that in future people will become more open minded and accept each other including personal choices. I hope that in time this undercover racism will go away and no one will be judged for who they love. Hopefully our next generation will take away the old ways.

Hamish, if you have not, you need to go MGTOW. These ladies see us as meal tickets.

I'm taking a break from uploading an app to the store which I will show off to the LA taxicab commission next week.

Soon afterwards I'm in my native (I'm Jewish) Egypt for the initial launch. Afterwards I'm off to Mongolia for some hardcore testing of the app, api and Google Maps.

Here's a list of what I compiled of what NOT to do at least for myself when it comes to foreign lands and its native.

1) Don't get arrested.

2) Don't get into fights.

3) Don't catch any VD's.

4) Don't get married.

5) Don't get sidetracked from the real reason you are there.

6) For the love of God, don't have children!!!

7) Don't take anything back home with you other than your hard earned money!

Hey Bra! You will always be able to say that Cape Town was anything but boring. You need to listen to what Metto81 is telling you. He has for all intent and purposes nailed it down. Metto81 is not telling you to not have fun or enjoy yourself – he is telling you to be smart about it. He is also right about your black girlfriend. If you think for one moment she sees you as anything else but a way out, you are fooling yourself bra. The black women here, DO see you as a meal ticket and way out. In a town of over 3.5 million residents, only 16% are white. The remaining coloureds and blacks, most who live in the Cape Flats area are not who you need to be bonding with bra.

I asked you earlier if you knew of the culture of your “leggy meit? She is Zulu, right? Did you know that she has been taught to be subservient to men since she was a child? By the time she was 7 her mother trained her to carry a gourd on her head using braided supports? When she turned 11, she was given her own hoe to plant and reap the crops? She is also taught to make a fire from the land and second mother to her younger siblings? She was taught to honor and accept the practice of polygamy? She also had sex at this age as well multiple times, where a farm animal would have been given to her father as payment to do so? These are the humane times of her childhood, now move forward to the brutal side. Have you spoken with her about the pronounced sexual and emotional abuse Zulu women experience from the time they are 11? By the time a Zulu girl reaches 14, she has had multiple unwelcomed sexual partners as a right of passage? She has been physically beaten, and emotionally and sexually abused more times than she remembers. Are you aware that the Zulu culture currently has an HIV positive rate of 14%. She is emotionally and physically scarred in a way that no Westerner such as yourself will ever understand.

Bra, I do not want you to think of me as a bitter and angry digit of the remaining 16%. I just do not understand why an intelligent, obviously social and fun-loving guy would put himself in the path of oncoming traffic?  If you want to call your leggy meit from time to time to have a little fun, do not believe anyone would notice. However, there are too many kak pretty leggy blondes running loose, that would love keeping time with you. Maybe you should start looking their direction? I just think you are playing a dangerous game with your future.

Big LOL at ignorance. Good luck with that  :) No further comment

My dear Mr. Devaroe! I am surprised at you young man. ;) I am a Zulu woman, familiar with all of our ancestral traditions.  I was subject for example to the umemulo. For those unfamiliar, umemulo is a traditional Zulu ceremony performed by my parents, to show their gratitude for my good behavior and announce I am of marriageable age. This right of passage was performed when I turned 21, and without the contribution of farm animals I assure you. ;) Mr. Devaroe, I will not denounce your data so methodically laid before us, as examples of each can be found, if you search back far enough, thorough enough, and hard enough. However, my dear, you failed to mention that the Zulu people follow the philosophy of “Ubuntu” which holds the accomplishments of the tribe above that of the individual. Among my people, we have a saying, “Umuntu Ngumuntu Ngabantu.” It means that my humanity is spiritually linked to yours. I am human because I belong to you and all others who share in the great struggle of life. It speaks about completeness, and empathy. I as a woman of Ubuntu welcome you Mr. Devaroe, Hamish and all others who hear my heart. I am welcoming, warm and giving. I gladly make myself vulnerable, and support you. I am not threatened that you are intelligent and decent, for rest assured that you belong to a greater whole. I feel pain and suffer when you are humiliated, or others do you harm, or treat you less than you deserve. Ubuntu gives me strength to forget and forgive others for past grievances, as I would hope to be forgiven for any occurring in the present. This is Ubuntu, these are the teachings of the Zulu.
When I left my parents home, it was not a traditional “indlu”, however a 4 bedroom, 3 bath home in Three Anchor Bay. :) Therefore, missed many of the rights-of-passage deliberated by Mr. Devaroe, to include every other Zulu woman I am aware. There are those whose minds will be challenging, to give the opportunity to see life differently (Mr. Devaroe) in Cape Town; however, love and understanding prevails always, as each one of us possess this capacity and linked to one another. This is Ubuntu.

Hamish, the African spirit is as indominable as it is pure. This is why you are drawn to Busisiwe. She possesses the heart and soul of a people which pulls at your own. It is Ubuntu which she offers you, and in turn, you feel an inner-peace and contentment. Your decision Hamish, is very easy, follow your heart.

Owethu, after reading your post, it was like reading from a  Zuhura Seng’enge poem. You are very likable, intelligent, centered, lovely? I on the other hand, brass, direct, and come across as a “brown shirt” from the Rhineland of the 1940’s. But it does not mean I am wrong. Less than one year ago, President Zuma called for the confiscation of white-owned land without compensation. Zuma urged the “black parties” in parliament to unite to form the two-thirds majority that would be needed to make the necessary change to the country’s constitution. During this debate a member of the ANC shouted “Bury them alive!”

Now there are others on this forum (like Silky33 – great legs by the way) who live in a vacuum. It always seems to be the ones who are first in line to be critical of those willing to oppose the injustices currently facing anyone who does not agree with Zuma’s radical transformation of South Africa – are the first to abandon ship when the bow breaks. The Coloured population I will never understand, they are the first Zuma intends on forcing into the wasteland, alas, have no motivation to unite in a solidified front to prevent this? Owethu, I want to extend my appreciation for you as a lady of intelligence and integrity, and if anything I have said offends you, I sincerely apologize. However, it is not your “Ubuntu-calm” that is leading the way – it is Zuma’s radical version of manifest destiny.

You may all be asking yourself, what does all this have to do with Hamish dating a leggy meit? It gives a foundation which illustrates where white sentiment evolves from. Hamish, feel free to date as many leggy meit’s who raise your flag. You may have found a woman cut out of the same cloth as Owethu, and she will only have your best interests at heart. I believe you probably did get lucky, considering she is working at the front desk at one of the largest mining conglomerates in the world. But bra, if you think for one minute that she does not see you as the answer to her dreams, you are fooling yourself. She has laid in bed her entire night and dreamed of someone like you to float through town wearing blinders. I watched an old American flick, “Officer and a Gentleman” the other day and thought of you. It showed lonely women with no futures, lined up to marry themselves an American Naval aviator training just across the pond. Marry them for one reason and one reason only, a better life. No one could argue that is not the plight of all women. But with a Zulu woman…. 😉 you have no concept of the culture which you are pressing up against. Now, if you choose to play the field, romancing leggy meit’s, that is where you will eventually get into trouble, I promise you bra. Your post was “…. How black African ladies feel about white American men….” I’ll tell you bra – they love everything a white American man can do for and give to them. Mostly provide passage to the promised land (USA). She will do anything, and everything to manipulate you there. She will do things to you sexually, that you never imagined in your wildest fantasies, all with a smile. She will treat you like a “King”, and pamper you as if you were a new born baby, mother you like she gave birth to you. Bra, you can feel like a Rock Star here with all the attention you will receive. Just trust your instincts, pinch yourself once in a while and ask yourself if this is real. Trust me bra, it isn’t. And bra, if you are not wearing a “rubber-johnny” when doing the wild-thing (I know you are, but have to put this out there), you are not only subjecting yourself to things you cannot imagine, however, as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, she will get pregnant. That is her goal anyhow, to get pregnant by you. She knows that most American’s are descent, most of them. She also sees you as soft, just trust me on this. She will hide your rubber-johnny’s, get you worked into sexual prey drive, when you are searching for them, she has already got you bouncing – too late. I know this is somewhat graphic, but feel free to jump in anytime this does not look familiar. Hamish bra, you seem like a great guy and someone I would love to share a cold beer with sometime. You seem to have a great life, and know our culture as well as any, just trying to save you from yourself. You are on a different planet now bra.

Hi Hamish!!

Welcome to our beautiful coastal community! Have you had a chance to visit Clifton Beach during your stay? Beautiful! Hamish, I know some of our men may come across strong, but believe they are looking out for you. Generally, handsome, white collar professionals do not intermingle with our native populations. Is there nothing about our Afrikaner women which has not met to your liking? 👩   EmmaCAPE was not exaggerating when she explained how many white girls are poorly treated by black African girls.  Like Emma, I have been subject to their hostility as well as most all my friends at one time or another. It is no picnic here now for a pretty blonde-haired girl growing up.

As a rule black African women are very aggressive when pursuing foreign men, especially white American men with wonderful careers -LOOK OUT!! 🤣  If you think back when you first met Busisiwe, was it you who approached her, or was it she that approached you? I am sure I can answer that for you. Sean was course how he explained it, but he was not wrong. African women have a very subtle, call it passive-aggressive way if you must when going after a man they want. Metto knocked it out of the park when he said that you are a “meal ticket” to her. Hamish I know you not at all, but can I safely say that your non-work activities are all now revolving around Busisiwe? For some reason, do you feel you don’t have any time to take care of routine things, although you are single, live in an apartment, and basically have all the time in the world? 😉 It is because she is controlling your time, controlling your days. I am very, very familiar with our African women Hamish, and they can be irresistible to foreign men. Our men know better. I am sure Busisiwe is fond of you, may even like you, but trying to change what she is, what she was raised to be, you would have better luck trying to raise that Wolf pup to act like a Golden Retriever. You are her meal ticket and airplane flight out of here Hamish. And when that happens – you will not recognize her the very following day when you land. What do black African women think about white American men? Was that it? They love what they can squeeze out of you. One last thing Hamish, have you been told that it is not uncommon in their culture for a young beautiful woman to marry a much older man yet? That;s what I thought.  I’ll stop. Just be careful and remember Hamish, MIND first, then HEART! 😘

How is everyone today?

There has been some colorful commentary (no play on words) lighting up this board, LOL. Allow me to first say that I am not South African, therefore will not use demeaning words such as “I understand how you feel” as I cannot. I am not insensitive to the feeling you may have of being disenfranchised, seeing Government racial quotas established and many more things which create anxiety for you. I know it must be difficult when hearing many of the challenges which you now face, were unimaginable in your grandparent’s time. I am also empathetic to black Africans who had no pathway for generations to elevate themselves in a land where their ancestor’s bones were laid to rest. A people displaced into harsh regions. I received a couple of private messages from members exasperated that the racial turmoil which is prevalent, has nothing to do with my forum question which simply asks how black African ladies feel about white America men? Although, many of the responses are not to the point, they are linked as these politically charged comments are connected and illustrate a foundation as to better understanding some of the rudimentary issues.

I am still seeing Busisiwe. Our relationship has evolved since the last time I have posted. Evolved for the better. It is not because Busisiwe is several years my junior, she is. Yes, she is a tall, athletically built, beautiful, educated and charming young lady. One member asked me if she has any faults? I am unsure if they are faults, however, she is very possessive and jealous. However, the more I come to understand the Zulu culture, when a woman loves a man, she becomes highly possessive and jealousy is her way of showing him she cares and does not want to lose him. Tess is correct when she states that Busisiwe directs my traffic. I became cognizant of this very early. It’s true, LOL… she had me jumping making sure I had time for little more than her. Ask yourself why she does? What is her motive? To reiterate, the more I become familiar with the Zulu culture, their women are loyal, faithful, giving and would take a bullet for their man (most all white women I know are not willing to do that). Can her directing my traffic become too much on occasion…? There are evenings which I must work late preparing for a presentation the following morning, preparation for morning meetings, etc. She gets her feelings hurt, however, being college educated, and speaking better English than I do quite frankly, always understands – at the end of the day, she wants me to be happy. She grabs her pillow, pushes it up beside me and snuggles up next to me. Am I a meal ticket to her? Let me say that if she is working me over like a “pork chop”, she is the best at it I have ever seen. Yes…. I do not have the time to see anyone else. However, isn’t my goal to come here and do a job? Perhaps receive an amended agreement extending my contract? If I am able to accomplish this, and spend time with a lady who has placed a bigger smile on my face than I can ever remember, should that not be considered balance?

It recommend to anyone to review my expat path and look at the countries I have lived, in fact, have not lived in the USA for over 16 years now. Does anyone believe there were no opportunistic ladies in Ukraine when I lived there? Russia? Poland? Finland? Thailand? Singapore? Mongolia? The list goes on. Of course, there were. Please understand folks, this is not my first rodeo. Give me some credit for being able to access a ladies sincerity. And, must ask, isn’t it natural for Busisiwe to want love, to spend her life with someone who completes her? Is it wrong that she dreams of a better life? Folks, this mindset is rampant in America as well. America’s female population invented the concept of trading up, or marrying up. Not because the lady would lay down in traffic for her husband, however, because she wanted comfort. On a side note, it is my understanding that feminism in the west has all but destroyed the qualities of the American woman that made her marriageable, and replaced these qualities with something far less desirable, seeking to be more like men and placing no value on family or procreation. In fact, I just read a shocking census which documented in America, marriages between white American men and white American women has decreased 6% over the past five years. This statistic is staggering. Moving forward, when I look at Busisiwe and all the gifts she possesses, it is a vast improvement from the alternative. With this next sentence, I will inadvertently upset some of the female members of this board, but here it goes. Firstly, I believe the white Afrikaner women of SA are amazingly beautiful and charming. In fact, have American women beat hands down! However, I believe what most threatens them is that a black (and coloured for that matter) population which they always deemed inferior to theirs by societies placards, are now serious romantic contenders for their men. Augmenting this, black females are becoming increasingly more educated. Perfect examples are Lerrato and Karrabo_mom. These are the women of the new South Africa. When you add to that, black African women tend to treat their husbands like “Kings” (it is well known, even to a Yank like me), care for them, family oriented and will deliver as many children as their husband desired. Finally, black women are generally taller, more athletically built, stronger, remain youthful appearing longer… all traits which men desire. Remember ladies… we hope to have sons one day. 😉 Trying to do anything but stir the pot here, but believe the white female population of Cape Town is now faced with a serious black female competitor in relation to gaining the attention of their men.

From what I have experienced, black African women seem to accept me nonjudgmentally and warmly.

Hey Hamish!!

This is Joyce from the Mongolia forum just sticking my head in here to say HI! LOL HEY!!! Didn't we tell you NOT  to get involved with an African girl when you arrived here??? Do you ALWAYS "NOT" do what other people suggest to you??? ;) Just having fun with you big boy! You are missed. Believe it or not, the Mongolian message board is still running. I am going to say this, even though you WON'T LISTEN!! Business first, the flings can wait. Maybe one day, after we all are weary and return to the motherland, we can meet up for dinner and drinks at the Sir Francis Drake Yacht Club in San Francisco. Until that day, take care and God speed to you!

The question is how do African women feel about white American men? I do not date or seek marriage outside my people. It is important to me that I am close with a real man. White American men seem very kind but soft. The ones I have met do not have the strong character that would make me want to be submissive to them. I was raised to respect elders and never speak unless spoken to. I do not see this in American culture. In my culture, the man makes all the decisions. As a woman, I am expected to care for the children, and complete all domestic duties. I now live in a home in the city with electricity and water which makes my life easier. I have been raised to be submissive and attentive to my man in every way. Our men though, different than white American men. White American men are too sensitive and behave too much like women. I have watched the way American women treat their men. They treat their men like cattle, though the men do nothing to correct this. I could never respect a man who would allow me to treat him this way. It could be that American society no longer allows their men to behave like men. I have been told this. I could never be with a white American man for this reason. I could never respect him. I am a traditional Zulu woman and can tell you that is how we feel.

Hi siphiwe,

Your observations about Western men and society is spot on. Let me tell you why American men come of as both soft and sensitive.

We have been bombarded by Hollywood, the media, and government run school systems from a very young age that we as males need to share our feelings and that male masculinity is toxic.

Overall we live in a gynocentric society that caters to women and oppresses the patriarchy. So we are told that women are our equals and in most cases our better half! So men are conditioned to become subservient to women. Furthermore, as women are told they are better than men and the fact that women tend to get better comfy high paying jobs, this falsely lets women believe that they truly are superior to men. In reality, women get nice jobs because they are horrible negotiators in salary and are eye candy for the office. On top of that, women are manipulators and conniving and they use these mischievous tools to frog leap past a man or worse have him fired. Look at all these bogus sexual harassment claims by women in the US where the males are getting fired and replaced by women!

If the above is not bad enough, there is something called 'Divorce rape'. It's when a women gets bored in a relationship or for any reason she feels like it divorces her husband and takes everything he has including the kids.

There is a sliver of hope. There's an ever growing movement called MGTOW. It stands for Men Going Their Own Way.

In short, it's about guys like myself the type of guy that you siphiwe would want realizing the aforementioned. You take me for example, I would pump and dump Western women but never get involved in an intimate relationship with them especially marriage!

Just to clarify about 'Western', this refers to the Western ideology of Feminism. This includes non whites from where I write this from now, Alexandria Egypt.

So siphiwe i hope this helps you understand why American men come off as soft and emotional.

I think Siphiwe exaggerated with the picture she drew about African/Zulu woman, it could be her case but surely doesn't fit all. We're seeing many and many African women living with jobs in their hands, some of them are married, others divorced their husbands (Divorce rape as per Mett :)), but definitely they not just sitting at home and doing domestic work or taking care of their kids. This trend will grow once there is enough jobs for all.
I'm not sure what Siphiwe means with this: "The ones I have met do not have the strong character that would make me want to be submissive to them." Strong character? is it the one who shouts? ...Under such thinking women are suffering from men violence, she must look like a slave to him, otherwise she will fail to be a proper women. You want to stick to your culture and traditions, but you should proof it first that its working by showing us a happy living Zulu woman because of such culture, which doesn't exist for a fact.
The world that we living in is dominated by one and only one culture: the western, the domestic cultures and languages are fading day after day. Everyone wants to speak, eat, wear,listen, dance...western, the social media is playing a big role in firing this also. Easy to criticize this but impossible to deny.
Generalization also is not a wise practice, everyone is unique. Saying white american men are sensitive, or Zulu women are submissive...etc doesn't reflect the Truth. BTW, I know a white american man that is not sensitive and his name is: Trump :lol:

Metto81 that was one brain-buckling read. Gynocentric society, had to look that one up. Other than my virtual surfing, I have never been to the US, but have long known that American men have been socially neutered. I work out after work each day at Planet Fitness on Riebeek. I have gotten to know an American expat who also works out at Planet. Professionally, he works as a chemical engineer for Sasol LTD. The whole reason he is here in SA is because of a divorce with his ex- in California, US. He said the judge awarded his ex- $4,100 a month for the rest of her life or issue of a new court order; in addition to ordering ½ of all money in his 401K be immediately paid to her,  gave her the house after she lied about domestic violence and had HIM kicked out, drained their financial accounts, and the kicker…. No kids. He said he was married for 20+ years, and tried for two years after the divorce to have the $4,100 alimony discontinued because she lived with her new boyfriend and refused to work. He said because of the domestic violence she lied about, he lost his good paying job and had difficulty finding another one at that salary. He said the California judge did not want to hear that he earned this life style because he received a Masters in Chemical Engineering and worked 60 hours a week, while his ex- went shopping and blew through their money on expensive lunches with friends and elaborate girls days out.

Two years after the divorce and feeling helpless, he then came to our Mother City on a work visa and has been working at Sasol LTD ever since. He said that was five years ago now. Apparently, he immediately stopped paying his wicked ex- the $4,100/month after landing on SA soil. He said his ex- went crazy over this as did her now live-in boyfriend. They appealed to every US court in the land to no avail to have him deported and pay her in full. When he initially arrived to SA on a work visa, he was still under the California court order, however, the US Government apparently does not get involved in state divorce matters. He said she has even gone so far as to writing the US consulate in SA, all levels of SA Government as well as the CEO of Sasol LTD, but no luck. I guess she and her deadbeat boyfriend will actually have to get jobs. 

Also, he is somehow now a Permanent Resident of SA some five years later,  and no longer filing American taxes. He said he now feels free and actually prefers living in SA over the US. I can’t imagine why. Metto81, I have heard him time and again, repeat almost identically the comments you made. I am going to introduce him to this thread that he can contact you if you don’t mind. I know he would be interested in MGTOW. He said that although he feels like an escaped convict, he will never be the same after the level of stress placed on him by his maniac ex- and the California state judicial system. And I thought we had problems.

Yeah, sure put him in touch with me.

Have him on youtube look for MGTOW under Sandman, Turd Flinging Monkey, Howard Dare, Sunrise Hoodie and Paul Elam.

The story of your friend is quite common and California is the worst state for divorce as it is totally a left wing state.

US states in general have no-fault divorces so if a woman cheats, or simply fell out of love, the state still splits things 50/50. California has a communion law and if you are married for over 10 years, alimony for life and so on. This is why celebrities either don't get married like DiCaprio or get divorced like Cruise within 10 years.

80% of divorces are initiated by women and the divorce rate in the US is 60% and climbing while marriage is falling.

The problem here is that every women with a smartphone and internet connection is always susceptible to fall for another man. Combine this along with women working and the fact of the matter young and beautiful women early in their careers out earn men of the same age, and taking into consideration what the previous poster said, that Western ideology is now accessible and spreading worldwide like wildfire, women no longer value men and want to be with someone who will show them the world.

Even at that, in your friend's case women in their 40's just get bored and usually seek out some loser they can control all along the Ex is paying for everything. As a man, you will never know when your woman will hit the eject button.

Old MGTOW saying, 'She's not your woman, it's only your turn.'

As doomed as it might seem, it's actually women who lose out. They hit their mid 30's, no children and they usually settle for some unimportant loser nobody. 90% of all shrink (psychiatrist) patients are women and the vast majority of them are on antidepressant.

The world renowned psychologist Jordan Peterson someone your friend should youtube as well, spoke of a unpublished thesis that claimed women overwhelmingly select partners on ability to earn and not on actually having the money.

I can confirm this to be true because I have a girl that I've known for 8 years that has been keeping tabs on me back when I was at the bottom.

The problem here is that most guys become PUA's aka Pick Up Artists and they promise women the high life and after several months of marriage they finally realize the guy is a loser OR women go for the rich guy who is good enough but is boring and uninteresting. In both situations women are hurt because they have been let down by a bad boy (yes psychology confirms that women prefer bad boys over nice guys) that they actually loved and now they are stuck with someone they can't stand but are with them for the financial security.

So to sum it up.

You have millennials in their 20 who are greatly depressed and confused because of the overwhelming choices thank to social media and PUA's who know how to talk their panties off, literally.

You have my generation of women in their mid-late 30's who are settling.

Then you have women in their 40's like you friend's ex who believes she can get her second wind and start all over with more excitement in their lives. Those are the ones to worry about the most because they know if they don't have children or they are stuck with some loser who is only good in bed, they won't be able to monkey branch to a better man or have well to do children to take care of them. This explains why your friend's Ex is so hellbent to fleece your friend. She is desperate and knows she can't do any better.

Pro tip to you ladies out there thinking of divorce rape,  marry a guy in his mid 20's who is still stupid and horny but has potential to earn big bucks and once you get into your mid 30's divorce him out of nowhere that way he doesn't see it coming and doesn't change his financial situation to your disadvantage.

Pro tip to you guys in a situation where it is cheaper to keep her and your lady is cheating on you with another man that she monkey branched to because he is better off. Let her continue cheating on you because eventually she will lose all feelings for you and heap them on to the new guy and at that point she will quietly go with him without the troubles of divorce raping you.

Hejsan Hamishbond!
Happy Valentine's day Hamish and everyone here.      I am from Stockholm city, Sweden and currently working in West Africa as a Project Manager for a Petroleum Refinery company.
    I will love to congratulate Hamish for finding a great African lady that treat him like a King and truly love him deeply.
    I will like to say Stockholm is not in Norway, since the Swedish colonised Norway.    It is true that most young women in Stockholm look like supermodels and wears clothes from Fashion magazines.   Minimum wage in Sweden for full-time job is 1700Euros per month.   Swedish and Norwegian women will absolutely force any man into submission at all times and you are required by Swedish Law that both Man and woman married should share the responsibility of taking care of their kids.   
     That is why you will see many men in Sweden and Norway with their babies moving the baby trolley all over the city. You will have to be a millionaire in dollars or Euros to get married to a Swedish or Norwegian for over 10-15years.   
       I will advice you Hamish to stick to the amazing African girl you found and don't ever let anyone make you fear true Love. I can absolutely tell you that if you love to have a woman to stand by you in your old age until your 70 or 80years of age you need to marry an African lady for real.   
       Hamish,  I find most comments here hilariously silly like you are been used has meal ticket, African girls are trained to pleased their men, South Africa is owned by Fucking old dying white men that hate to see White man with Black woman, all those bla bla bla fear-mongering tactics that makes people to be evil Racist. 
         My advice to you Hamish will be to enjoy your Amazing great life with this lovely African lady made perfectly for you, but be safety concious about showing Love in public to a African lady, if you don't want your awesome African lady beaten up by evil Racist white South African who still think White people own South Africa.     South Africa was never ever a white country and will never be a white country, so white people need to really Chillax and drink some kool aid for real.     According to the Racist Nazi ideology you are considered to be pure white only if you have Blonde Hair with blue or green eyes.     
    I wish you all the best of love and happiness with your loving African lady.
    I hope you gonna invite me to your Engagement or marriage next year.

Sean, I met an expat from Colorado, USA since I have been here with the same story as your ex-California gym rat. Divorced his wife and in a nutshell, he went from having a great life In Colorado, living large - to being relegated to a small apartment, paying ridiculous alimony for life to his ex- and being harangued every other week by her lawyer for over two years. He said he was to the point of only checking his mailbox every other week he was so far gone. He finally pulled himself up by the bootstraps, relocated to SA and now works as an Operational Technology Infrastructure Specialist for a large mining corporate here in Cape Town. Same as your California buddy, his wife’s attorney went ballistic trying to influence SA local and federal government to deport him until back alimony was paid. They were unsuccessful and he continues to work here; says he has never been happier as well, and will never return to  the US. Sean, hearing you and Metto81 tell of the grim state of matrimony in the USA (especially far left states such as California, Colorado, New York, Mass., etc.) why would an American male with anything on the ball marry a white American woman? You guys are certainly not painting a pretty picture for me on my return to the States one day, LOL. I worked in Donetsk, Ukraine 12 years back (approximately 1-1/2 year term) and there were three American female expats I got to know working on the same coal mining project as I. They seemed very angry all the time, complaining about the Ukrainian/Russian people and how the men treat their women and the women prance around in mini-skirts and heels. They felt they were dealt with dismissively by the populous describing the Ukrainian/Russian people as the rudest on earth, LOL. I will say they don’t smile much. 😊 These women seemed irritated by me and other male expats who chose to enjoy the nightlife of Donetsk which gets much less international claim than it deserves. It was explained to them that Ukraine, especially the Donetsk region is a man’s world and they would either need to adapt or go home. Of the three, none chose to extend/renew their agreements although it was an option. It was clear to me that the three women felt frustrated and powerless in a land that celebrated masculinity as the Ukrainians do, to change the culture. In fact, when I was working in UB, Mongolia, I started a thread much like this one as the American women I knew in Mongolia all seemed to have a huge grievance against the Mongolian ladies who I found warm, family-oriented and kind. It is important to add that although the Mongolian ladies possess traditional Asian attributes in relation to kindness and politeness – that is where it stops as they are also courageous and ferocious when protecting their territory, man or family. Also, a Mongolian woman will go after an unmarried American man if she feels his woman is not attentive enough or treating him well; sometimes with his American woman right there. Needless to say, the contemporary American woman did not intermember well with these types of women. I believe the divide is caused because American society has given American women a false sense of empowerment over men, and that the rest of the world will cater to the narrative and programs they have come accustomed to in the USA.

Hejsan Greatking:

First Happy Valentine’s Day! I always enjoy meeting other expats here in SA seeing the world, even if after a 8-12 hour day 😉 I enjoyed reading your letter and appreciate your supportive comments very much. I understand your counsel on Swedish and Norwegian ladies very much. I spent time in both Sweden and Norway. Had a great time in both, as the people were friendly and appreciated the culture. When in Sweden, I was working on a project for tunnel expansion of the Kiruna mine. The weather conditions were brutal, however the corporation I was contracted through would give us four days off at the end of each month and fly us into Stockholm for some much-deserved R&R. To receive these four days off meant that we worked 14 days straight the first two weeks of the month.  I enjoyed Stockholm very much. Please do not take this wrongly, however, I enjoyed Bergen, Norway and a side trip to Oslo from time to time immensely. The most beautiful women in the world reside in Norway, hands down. There was something about Norwegian women that I found for a lack of other terms, cool and advanced. On average, Norwegian women are tall, beautiful, well proportioned (athletically built), educated. I am 6’4” and did not feel towering over these women as I have in other countries. To this day I do not understand how common people can afford to live in Norway. Believe me, my services do not come cheap, however, I groaned each time I paid for a good or service when in Bergen or Oslo. For a foreigner to relocate to Norway, my advice, bring your wallet with you. Greatking, you are so right when you speak of the liberal and open-mindedness of the Norwegian women. The culture does not hold men as head of the home, however, declining in stature as women continue to gain momentum. As this occurs, I noticed Norwegian women having little regard for their local men, unless they were well-heeled or maintained an important position in their society. However, a country with as many stunning women as Norway, it is almost easy to overlook these cultural liabilities. If I could change one thing about Norwegian women, they lack passion and fire, as seen in other cultures. They are calm and cool creatures, disciplined and seem unsettled by nothing, that is unless it is a Bugatti Veyron or estate located on the west sides Bygdoy peninsula.

Allow me to reiterate that I am not searching for a wife, however, if I were, it would be a Mongolian or African lady. Do not pass on the Mongolian ladies too quickly, they are amazing creatures with the capacity to love hard and take care of their men. Mongolian women are much taller on average than other Asians and had amazing curves as well – they do not lack for fire and passion but have an abundance. I have often asked myself why I did not pursue some of these amazing ladies when in UB. Oh well, that was then, this is now. To fast forward to my relationship with Busisiwe, my feelings for her blossom every day. When you have a lady who openly confesses, it is her honor to “serve” and be “submissive” to you, as Busisiwe is to me, it is intoxicating. We went for a day hike on the Nursery Ravine/Skeleton Gorge starting at at Kirstenbosch Botanical Garden. It was amazing. At the end, once we were on flat terrain, I began speeding up and challenging Busisiwe to a foot race. She easily bested me while giggling the whole time. Keep in mind that I am a former athlete, playing American football all though high school and receiving a baseball scholarship to UC-Berkeley. I am not getting younger, but getting beat by a woman this easily was unnerving. She never shared with me, however, was a competitive track athlete in college running the 100m, 200m and 100m hurdles respectively. As we returned to my apartment, I remember thinking that I had an intelligent, tall, beautiful, intelligent, athletic woman in love with me. Do I keep my expat cool and keep her close but at a respectable distance? Or do I allow her closer and see where this may go? I do not want to be graphic, but when intimate with a woman who truly honors you, is something I have never experienced until now, and can only say that it is unlike anything in this world! I would be pulling your leg were I to say this question does not perplex me with Busisiwe.

I work with a geologist at times named Dube. Dube is an African man, well educated, speaks better English than I do and belongs to the Zulu tribe as do most everyone else here. We have gotten to know one another well, and discussed the topic much over a few pints of ale. In fact, he and I are becoming close friends. His advice to me is to be careful if choosing to become serious with an African woman. He does not question Busisiwe’s motives, he simply says that the new generation of African women are not as traditional as was his mothers. He faults social media and endless electronic devices for this which allow traditional young girls to now dress in preposterous wigs, scantily dress, and flag two fingers while posting on their Facebook or Instagram photos. He claims many remain traditional and retain the values of his mother’s generation, although higher-levels of education are exploding for African women and combined with the “nuevo” culture that they should seek out and work in traditionally male dominated fields. He says that even more educated tribal members advocate this. His final advice to me was to be very careful, as the traditional African woman has changed much from his mothers generation to the present. He stated that a white American professional as myself, is what an African woman values above all else when setting her sights on marriage. On the other hand, he is married to a woman of his tribe, college educated and they have four beautiful children together. His wife does not work, as she stays behind to care for and raise the children. They both approve of this balance and very happy. He is the happiest man I have ever met. I am taking in all information received, processing, digesting it and will eventually decide on the path I will travel with Busisiwe. I have always been my own man and will make my own decision, however, am also appreciative of a little help and advice from my friends in coming to a decision. I am very appreciative of the comments you folks have posted thus far as they are very beneficial to me. I cannot thank you enough, and please keep them coming as there is no wrong answers here, only perspective.

You are absolutely my hero Hamishbond and I still dream about working in over 15 Countries before I retire, but you have achieved that already. 
   Norway used to be a country owned by Sweden, but since Norway as become one of the top 3 countries with the highest standard of living in Europe and I know Luxembourg has highest standard of living in Europe.
   Many Swedish joke about Norway and one was that the difference between a Norwegian men and a Norwegian women is the Boobs. 
   Norwegian women are really tall, athletic, strong and kinda look like a Norwegian men.
   Norway pays much more than Sweden so about 30 percent of most beautiful women in Sweden had relocated to Norway for higher paying jobs already.    The Arab refugee crisis had made most Gorgeous Swedish women to flee bigger cities to smaller cities due to the problem of harassment by Arab Refugees. 
    It is insane to know that Sweden had accepted over 1million Arab Refugees into Sweden.    There was a debate over why Arab adult men cannot stay to fight for their own country, but decide to flee to Sweden to harass Swedish women.   Most Swedish citizens still don't understand why Swedish government fails to accept just Arab women and children with Arab teenagers only.
     Kiruna is one of the coldest brutal place to live in Sweden and the Swedish government pays Swedish citizens to work in Kiruna more money, but most Swedish people don't like Kiruna very harsh weather.
     I believe Norway is very expensive due to their really high standard of living and Norway is a great welfare country like Sweden.   I don't think any foreigner in Norway without a Job or really rich bank account can survive the harsh weather and overpriced services in Norway.
     I am really glad to hear that you had a really great time with your African Beauty. 
     I will say you should just enjoy the moment and don't over think your decision. I think it is better to let true love find you than looking for true love later in the future.
     Hamishbond your story and travel around the world his really inspiring to me.
     I hope you learned to live in the moment and just enjoy the African treasure you found in Cape Town.    I know so many rich men that will give up everything to find or have Exotic African Beauty like Busisiwe. 
     Have a wonderful and lovely weekend.

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