Another Monthly Budget Question

Stakan wrote:

I realize as I post this there is another active thread on this very topic. However, I didn't want to hijack that person's thread so I'm starting another.

Thanks.

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I am the "other person" and you are welcome to post there if you don't get responses here, although you will find that people are very helpful... 

I can tell you, that even when I lived there - 40 plus years ago, the public transportation was excellent, so I really don't think you will need a car.  It will be extra expense, maybe even for parking...  Good luck!

Thanks.

My issues is that a potential employer and I are discussing things and a huge issue is my salary expectations. Unfortunately this is actually the major issue. I'm trying to understand just how much we would need (after tax) to cover our expenses for a comfortable existence. Not a lavish one, but one where we have a nice place to live and don't have to count every forint. Based on the budget I've put together I get the impression that based on local salaries our life would be considered lavish though. The need for an international school is the biggest "luxury" in it though.

We are relatively simple people and we are somewhat frugal, but don't want to feel we can't buy something because it would put us over budget either.

Stakan wrote:

Thanks.

My issues is that a potential employer and I are discussing things and a huge issue is my salary expectations. Unfortunately this is actually the major issue. I'm trying to understand just how much we would need (after tax) to cover our expenses for a comfortable existence. Not a lavish one, but one where we have a nice place to live and don't have to count every forint. Based on the budget I've put together I get the impression that based on local salaries our life would be considered lavish though. The need for an international school is the biggest "luxury" in it though.

We are relatively simple people and we are somewhat frugal, but don't want to feel we can't buy something because it would put us over budget either.

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I have been looking into expenses, and it seems to me that if you can afford to pay 375,000 for an apartment, you should get a very nice two bedroom in a good area... Where do you live now?  What are your standards?  For many, Hungarian "average" life is not quite like what they are used to...

Panni36 wrote:

Stakan wrote:

I realize as I post this there is another active thread on this very topic. However, I didn't want to hijack that person's thread so I'm starting another.

Thanks.

=================
I am the "other person" and you are welcome to post there if you don't get responses here, although you will find that people are very helpful... 

I can tell you, that even when I lived there - 40 plus years ago, the public transportation was excellent, so I really don't think you will need a car.  It will be extra expense, maybe even for parking...  Good luck!

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Also:  Just got off Facebook with a Hungarian friend who lives there...  HUF 50,000 for utilities in a 2-bedroom place will definitely not do!  It will be probably more like 100,000 per month...  Food seems right at 175,000 for three, but only for groceries and cooking.

Panni36 wrote:

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I have been looking into expenses, and it seems to me that if you can afford to pay 375,000 for an apartment, you should get a very nice two bedroom in a good area... Where do you live now?  What are your standards?  For many, Hungarian "average" life is not quite like what they are used to...

I don't know that I can afford 375,000 or not really. I'm trying to figure out what my costs are and then see if we can work out a salary that would work. Because the salary is a big issue for both sides it has become the major discussion point early in the process.

I've lived in several countries so I have a bit of experience on new places (and cost comparisons). We currently live in Russia and have for many years. Our flat is small and old. The worst part for me is noise. I've read in multiple places that noise is an issue in Budapest flats too (as it is just about everywhere). I know the only way to avoid it is live in a separate house and not a flat, but that isn't really possibly I don't think.

Anyway, I want to have a home I don't hate. From various sites I just kind of assumed I could get something decent for about 375,000. I'm still not entirely sure about that. I'm sure we can find something for that budget (as we can for more or less too), but I'm not sure of how good it will be.

Panni36 wrote:

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Also:  Just got off Facebook with a Hungarian friend who lives there...  HUF 50,000 for utilities in a 2-bedroom place will definitely not do!  It will be probably more like 100,000 per month...  Food seems right at 175,000 for three, but only for groceries and cooking.

Thanks again.

I better double the utilities budget item!

Here's a two bedroom, furnished, brand new apartment for 225k/month: https://ingatlan.com/ix-ker/kiado+lakas … 3/24470568 (They even added a description in
english, so I assume this price already contains the foreigner surcharge ). It's just an example, my point: you probably wouldn't have to spend 375k/month for a nice apartment, but then again, our understanding of "relatively simple" might differ... I'd also find it very odd to pay more than 50k/month for utilities, maybe in upscale condos with reception, gym, gardener, etc.

The example above is from district 9, I wouldn't recommend to rent in district 5, or the parts of adjacent districts within "small boulevard", you get much less value for the money.

" I'm trying to figure out what my costs are and then see if we can work out a salary that would work. "

125k for fun, 175k for groceries, 375 for an apartment is pretty much "high life" in Hungary  , just make sure to factor in a monthly savings of at least 300kHUF.

atomheart wrote:

Here's a two bedroom, furnished, brand new apartment for 225k/month: https://ingatlan.com/ix-ker/kiado+lakas … 3/24470568 (They even added a description in
english, so I assume this price already contains the foreigner surcharge ). It's just an example, my point: you probably wouldn't have to spend 375k/month for a nice apartment, but then again, our understanding of "relatively simple" might differ... I'd also find it very odd to pay more than 50k/month for utilities, maybe in upscale condos with reception, gym, gardener, etc.

The example above is from district 9, I wouldn't recommend to rent in district 5, or the parts of adjacent districts within "small boulevard", you get much less value for the money.

" I'm trying to figure out what my costs are and then see if we can work out a salary that would work. "

125k for fun, 175k for groceries, 375 for an apartment is pretty much "high life" in Hungary  , just make sure to factor in a monthly savings of at least 300kHUF.

Thanks for the input.

That flat looks quite nice. I'm not sure about the location. I just don't know the city nearly enough to say which district is right for us yet. Convenience of getting to grocery stores, activities, school, and work all are factors considering we wouldn't plan on having a car.

Rent is still a very big variable. I know we can find cheaper than the 375,000 I budgeted, but I am hesitant to plan on it. Still - I've lowered my figure to 325,000 for now. I put my utilities up to 75,000 so I'm looking at a round figure of 400,000 for rent and utilities together. I believe the employer would be very willing and able help out in finding a place and dealing with landlords, which hopefully would be of help on price.

It's a good sign that you say my some of my figures were for the "high life" in Budapest, but I've actually tracked all of our spending in two different countries so I have a pretty good idea of where our money goes. That helps me plan, but when comparing different markets it only gives me relative figures that could differ considerably from place to place. I've lowered my Entertainment/Activities to 100,000 and Miscellaneous: 60,000. While we are pretty money-conscious, I know that little expenses really tend to add up - especially with a child.

After saying my figures were for living the high life, I'm not sure if your comment on factoring in a monthly savings of at least 300k HUF was sarcastic or serious. Either way, I have thought about this. Our goals in life aren't to just break even. I've actually set up my numbers to give me an estimated break even figure and then I can play with things like savings to see both a "required" figure and a "desired" figure.

Other than rent, international schooling is still a huge budget item. I don't see a way around that really though.

That's allot of moola to live in Hungary, roughly comes out to $3,600.
A month with  my calculations.
I could do a condo in Honolulu with utilities included for around $2,500.
Walking distance from the beach.
Don't forget Hungary is not as pricey as Moscow.
If your employer tosses in health care, he is getting off easy, that is rather cheap overall here in HU out of pocket.
I would ask them to pay for the school, that is  a huge monthly expense.
Doesn't sound like your average Hungarian budget.
All good, everyone's lifestyle is different.
Noise, for that much rent you should demand to have sound prove walls.
Really look at the layouts of any flat you rent.
We have our kitchen facing the yard but the rest of our flat faces the street. We barely know what is going on in the house because of the layout of the flat.
Over all it's quiet here, just a average building in the 7th.
Many new flats have sound prove windows as well.

I was serious about the savings, should be common sense, but I know cases where it wasn't and people had a hard landing...

Re location, the route planner of google maps does a pretty good job with public transport, you can use that to evaluate a location. It's best if you only have to use subway (beware that a large section of M3 will be out of service for some time!), tram or suburban railway (HEV) to get from A to B, that is, no buses.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

That's allot of moola to live in Hungary, roughly comes out to $3,600.
A month with  my calculations.
I could do a condo in Honolulu with utilities included for around $2,500.
Walking distance from the beach.
Don't forget Hungary is not as pricey as Moscow.
If your employer tosses in health care, he is getting off easy, that is rather cheap overall here in HU out of pocket.
I would ask them to pay for the school, that is  a huge monthly expense.
Doesn't sound like your average Hungarian budget.
All good, everyone's lifestyle is different.
Noise, for that much rent you should demand to have sound prove walls.
Really look at the layouts of any flat you rent.
We have our kitchen facing the yard but the rest of our flat faces the street. We barely know what is going on in the house because of the layout of the flat.
Over all it's quiet here, just a average building in the 7th.
Many new flats have sound prove windows as well.

Thanks, but I'm afraid I don't understand your post fully. A condo in Honolulu at $2,500 is not one's total living expense. It is probably (on average) only about a 1/3 of it. So the total monthly costs are more like $7,500. My figures for Budapest (about 3,800 in dollar terms) include everything.

I interpret you to be saying I'm overestimating or looking for a life of luxury. Is that right or did I misinterpret? If I got it right, then could you give me some idea where I've gone wrong? One area from your comments seems to be rent. Rent is the thing that confuses me most. There is a HUGE range and I just don't know what to plan on. From my internet research, it doesn't seem safe to assume less than 300,000 per month though.

You mentioned I should push for the employer to pay for school. I'm not sure it makes much difference to be honest. Whether they pay it to me or to the school I still get taxed on the benefit and it is still part of their total cost to employ me. The costs are as much of an issue for them as they are for me.

Regarding noise - our biggest problem everywhere we've lived is not street noise, but internal noise from neighbors. Stereo, TV, pounding, slamming doors, parties, etc. Sadly in all of our flats the layouts have had little impact on noises that seem to come from every direction!

Can't help you with the noise from neighbors, we have all had to live through other people doing remodeling hopefully it's a once in a lifetime thing.
I am retired so really don't know about taxes from income, did my time already.
Our neighbor was noisy, well it was his wife, knew in time without even mentioning a word to him that she wouldn't be there for long.
He has a new GF now and they are quiet.
When I ran into him with his new lady friend I wasn't surprised at all, actually wondered why it took him so long to wake up.
Just saying in many houses everyone tends to know everyone's business, we keep to ourselves but we still hear things.

Yes, sometimes the walls are too thin, hench I knew they would be breaking up as soon as he woke up to what was going on when he was working in the US. Mice will play....
It would be so much easier if younger people would just spend a bit of time and ask their older neighbors what the deal was in the building. They know who has parties, who fights with everyone in the house and who minds their own business.
Honolulu is really not that pricey at all, once the rent is paid food is high but if you eat a more Hawaiian style diet and have the time to go to the fresh fish markets it is really reasonable.

Nature is the entertainment there so that's a savings.Used to live there and my friend is always asking when we are coming back, They have a state run health care system that is liberal and getting help with food  costs is normal there.

Our budget for food , well don't really have a budget but we usually do not spend much more then 10,000 F a week.
Bought a ton of fresh fruits and veggies yesterday at the big market and spent around 4,000.
Usually a weekly Tesco trip is 7,000 and another 4 to 5,000 on extras.
We don't eat allot but like a variety of items.
We don't eat steaks or huge amounts of meat, which actually seems to cost less per kilo then cheese does here.
If you will get a income of over 915,000 a month that should really be more then enough to live here and save.
Saving would be a good thing instead of renting a very pricey place.
In the end you won't have anything to show if you rent instead of buy later on.
Most working Hungarians do not have this sort of high income and are able to live well in Hungary.
You should be able to save with such a good job.
We own our flat and on average can easily live on just about 200,000 a month. Sometimes a bit more and some months even less then that.
If Budapest prices are going up this much on rent and food, I may have to move to a 3rd wold country or bunk with my son in the US.

Stakan wrote:

From my internet research, it doesn't seem safe to assume less than 300,000 per month though.

An Internet search in English? If so, then you are most likely biasing your options to the upper end price wise. As already said, if it is on the Internet, you are paying not just the expat tax, but also could be getting something that is being offered for reasons that no one else wants here because they are "in the know" about issues with the property, and which you will not know. For example, it may be freshly renovated, and looks great, but has 100 year old water pipes that will break soon. Happened to someone I know. It was the sewage pipe. Upstairs. Just above their bathroom..... Stain now on the ceiling.....

Better idea is to hire a local estate agent, who is in the local know, to find some possible rentals for you based on your requirements such as access to school, shopping, transportation, quality, age of building etc. within your possible price range.