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marriage fraud

hello, is marriage fraud a colossal issue in egypt ?( men coming from egypt )

need some guidiance and insight
thanks so much :)

The short answer is yes ... most but not all Egyptian men will marry non egyptian women for the opportunity to live outside egypt ... and will stay married long enough to gain residency.
I personally know 9 such men ...
The women are usually either older and some times considerably or emotionally vulnerable.
If marriage is not an option then the motive is usually casual sex and requests for money usually on the pretext of an ill mother or such. Again personal experience of many ...
But there can be exceptions and I know of 1 very successful marriage .. both well educated professionals of a similar age .. with 3 children and married for about 12 years

I need help . I don't know if mine is fraud or not . I'm four years older , I'm in shape / attractive etc but he does say his mom is sick a lot
He says when he's here he wants to send 100 a month home to cover his mothers medical expenses .

Leila999 :

I need help . I don't know if mine is fraud or not . I'm four years older , I'm in shape / attractive etc but he does say his mom is sick a lot
He says when he's here he wants to send 100 a month home to cover his mothers medical expenses .

Hello, Leila999.

I'm an Egyptian man myself. I have to tell you you have to be very careful while dealing with such relationships. I don't want to intrude here. I cannot claim to know everything. but caution is best.

I would be alerted if my partner mentions money right away even before we travel or meet (Sorry, I don't know if you did).

It depends on how long have you known each other and on the nature of the relationship.

Is he financially stable? so that he can guarantee sending the 100 he says he will? I mean, Why is he mentioning that? I'm just thinking with you out loud.

I am not sure of your exact circumstance in respect to if it is from your money or your husbands money the 100 is from. if it is his well ok, if its yours, in my opinion it is not ok ... $100 dollars is approx. 1800 Egyptian pounds and is the equivalent of an average months salary at the lower to mid range.
I am personally very suspicious of Egyptian men marrying western women. I am not racist or xenophobic, after all I married a Egyptian Muslim woman and I have some very good personal Egyptian friends. But the track record is not good. As I said before I personally know of many such marriages and 9 out of 10 end up with the woman getting exploited. I have seen a guy divorcing his Egyptian wife, marrying an Irish woman (15 years older) and sending money back to support the divorced wife on the pretext of supporting his sick mother and on his first trip home remarrying the first wife, which is perfectly legal and the Irish wife none the wiser. Now, I don't want to sow suspicion where there is no reason but the sick mother story is a recurring theme in exploited cases. If he is not capable of earning his own money and contributing to supporting you rather than the other way round and wants to send your money back home for his sick mother, I would be suspicious. Cultural difference run very deep, it is a very patriarchal society where the man is in charge, respect for women in general is low, where she does what her father tells her until she is married and then what her husband says and in general, women end up on the short end of the stick... and respect for western women is even lower. Now I am not taking a position on this one way or the other; it is just the way the society works and you just need to be aware of it and go in with your eyes open as you are not going to change it.

Please be cautious and check the other stories written here in the expat website about other women's experiences. Unless he is a man with a stable job or a prospective future, who is very open about his economic and social circumstances and lets you meet his family and know how he lives, then you can start considering him. And then make sure he is not just pushing for traveling back to the U.S with you to take the nationality. Best of luck!

I have met an Egyptian man who is 25 years younger than me.  During the time I have known him, he has always been very respectful, introduced me to his family, has never let me pay for anything, has refused offers of financial assistance, does not have a passport.  He has said that he wants to marry me.  My feelings for him run deep and I would love to marry him.   He has asked me to think very seriously about my decision before agreeing to marry him as life in Egypt is very different.  He has asked me to think with my head and not my heart.  This does not seem to be the actions of a typical Egyptian man.  There must be good men in Egypt.  As there must be in the UK.
He states that he does not want to live anywhere but his own country and does not want to leave his family.
I'm not asking for advice as the decision and judgement must be my own, but would like to hear if any expats have had good experiences.

Hi
I am an Irish man who married an Egyptian girl 30 years my junior. we have been married 3 years and were together 2 years prior to that. I am now 59 and she is 29. We met in Sharm when I was Kitesurfing in 2012 and she was the manager of a French restaurant there. It was quite complicated getting married in Egypt ... for any foreigner marrying in Egypt ... and a bit more because I am a foreign man marrying an Egyptian woman plus the age difference which have specific laws pertaining to, and rightly so due to rich Arabs marrying poor Egyptian girls and subsequent exploitation.
We now live in Ireland and she is a Director in my business and as she has a good business degree, a good head and an excellent command of English and Russian she has taken to it like a duck to water.
We go back to Egypt about 4 / 5 times a year, Kitesurfing and seeing family.
Our marriage has been a great success .... in spite of all the Na Sayers and prophets of doom :-) ....
We got all the "she married me for money and I married her for sex" but we told them it was the other way around :-) ... She is drop dead beautiful and I do enjoy sticking it to people especially the looks I get from more mature women with men and groups of women in restaurants and hotels ...
Now we do get annoying hassle from time to time but you roll with the punches.
On balance it has been more acceptable in Egypt than in Ireland ... a cultural issue.
The main hassle I get in Egypt is from male relatives, they object .. as they see it .... to the amount of freedom I give Asmaa in respect to traveling where and when she wants and shockingly alone too, having control of her own money, not objecting to how she dressed and for not punishing her when she openly argues with them ... they cannot understand that I treat her like I would any western woman and say I should be more like an Egyptian man !!!
Overall it has been a great experience for us but Egyptian culture is 180 degrees to the UK in a lot of aspects ... it helps no end if you are rich ..and pure misery if you are not ... and is 10 time better for men than for women.
There are good men in Egypt who treat their wives well but they are culturally very different and as a wife I can guarantee some things will change. The way Egyptian men treat women before and after being married is quite substantial and if you are an Egyptian woman you know, understand and accept this. They cannot behave like a man from the UK no more than I can act like an Egyptian man, it is alien and not in the DNA ... if you understand this and enjoy this then you will be happy.
Now I am not trying to give you advice just how I see it from the inside and have experienced it, it is your decision.
Not sure where your man is from ... different parts of Egypt have different cultures and vary in conservatism ... Cairo being the most liberal other than Sharm
If you have specific questions or would like to chat to my wife your are more than welcome, just send me a message.
Regards
Ray

Hi Ray
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post  it is encouraging to hear your success, however as you say, you are living in Ireland whilst I would be living in Egypt.  My man comes from Luxor and during the time I have spent with him, I have nothing but good to say about him and also his family.  When he told his mother about me, she asked that he did not bring me to his family home unless he was in love with me and wanted to have a future with me.  She said that it would not be fair to me to do anything else.
I intend to go back to Luxor early next year for a couple of weeks for further reassurance.  My biggest fear being that at my age, with a good career, home, car etc, if the relationship were to fail and i had to return to England, it would be extremely difficult to start over.
I'm currently considering renting out my home or selling up and investing the money as a fall back.  Initially I had no fears about us having a future together, but almost every post I have read to date states that Egyptian men are fraudsters.  I'm certain there are an awful lot of bad men and women in Egypt, but this is true for every country.  There has to be good people there too.
I would welcome a chat with your wife if she can spare the time.  My man appears to have been open and honest, has told me he is a jealous guy,explained the cultural differences and has asked me not to be disrespectful to his family.  He also states that he does not object to me working although finding a job could be difficult.
I will be giving up a lot here, but I believe could also gain a lot by taking the plunge!
Thanks again Ray, really appreciate your comments.

I'm also thinking of marrying an Egyptian. I have many fears like you do.

do you have Egyptian girlfriend?

No, but its an interesting idea.

Totally agree , just be careful .

Hi I read your post about the good luck you have in a great marriage. I heard it’s unusual for a foreign mans to marry a egyptian woman. Plus the age difference. I was wanting to know who and how you got approved for the age difference. I’ve been to egypt 4 times and have My American paperwork from the embassy to state no objection to marraige. But we stopped at that point because I read about the age difference rule. If you can help with any hopeful advice I’d appreciate it. Thank you in advance

Hi
We had a lawyer to get the approval.... I could never get the exact name of what he did, as his English, while reasonable, was not perfect.
The exact details of the rule were never fully explained to me, in the way I would have liked...
So I will give you what I know and please bear in mind, it is subject to clarification, may not be 100% and some of the rule could have changed since September 2014 when we got married.
The basic rule, and it is law, is that if the foreign man is more than (20, 25 or 30 ... never got full clarity on the exact number) years older than the Egyptian woman then the man must give the woman 40,000LE (could be more now). This money had to be lodged in a bank account in the Bank of Egypt (the national bank) in her name ... now it also was on a 10 year interest bond ... not sure if this is just how it happened or if it is part of the rule...
The lawyer than, had to apply for what he called an "excuse" (not sure of the exact legal term or where he applied, as it was never properly translated for me). This took about 6 weeks to get, as best I remember. I am not sure where he applied for it. When it was sanctioned we had to visit some government office (not sure of the name). Myself, my wife, her father and the lawyer met with some senior guy there and went through some papers. Her father had to sign some documents and as best I can remember so had my wife. There was also some money changed hands, under the table, I am not sure how much, or to who and not sure if this was to hurry things along or if it would not have happen without it; now the lawyer and my wife took care of the detail here.
This rule was made law a few years back and the reason was that there were rich old Arabs coming from Saudi and the Gulf countries, marrying poor girls, paying their father’s small money, taking them for 3 months and then either abandoning, enslaving or divorcing them. Basically exploiting them for sex and making them domestic slaves. There was a backlash and outcry from the public and the law was put in place to discourage the exploitation, make it difficult and the money is an insurance for the girl if she is divorced, abused or exploited. While it was difficult and cumbersome for me I would agree with the law.
So my advice is you should hire a lawyer. I would recommend you get one from a list available from your embassy. I would talk to a few of them and make a decision on who can speak the best English (if that is your native language), who understands fully what you want and need, and who will give you a reasonable price.
The lawyer we used was from Sharm, because we lived there before we were married (long story). He was ok but if I had it again I would have got one in Cairo, where all the work need to be done and I would have got one recommend by my embassy. He charged me $1,400. This was for guiding us through the full details of getting married. It was too much in my opinion for the quality of the work we got and he was learning as well. But you live and learn and it worked out in the end. 
So in summary:
In my opinion you will need a lawyer who knows what he is doing
You will need to give the money to your intended wife and lodge it in her name
You will need to apply for the “excuse”
Your intended wife’s father or male family representative (uncle or brother etc.) will need to sign

If you need to speak to me or if your intend wife would like to speak to my wife Asmaa please send me a private message and I will send you my email and phone numbers … Both myself and Asmaa have unlimited international minutes  on mobile / cell phones or we can call using WhatsApp or Viber 

Best regards and best of luck

Ray

Thank you so much ... I’m sorry I didn’t let you know I have the reverse problem I’m the older woman and he is younger than me.... I apologize for your time to respond but I’m sure someone will read andvuse your wonderful advice. But would it be the same in your opinion to seek a lawyer in this role reversal. We’ve had a relationship for over 3 years and I’ve met his family and been to their home in Egypt. I know he may not be able to come to USA for a long time due to the politics now. But we would like to be within Islamic faith for our relation. Have a beautiful day and thank you

Hi
To the best of my knowledge and I could be wrong, I did not believe it applied the other way ... if the woman is older than the man ... the law was intended to protect young Egyptian girls and not men ... In Egypt the man is the boss, the whole system is stacked for him and against women and men marry who they like and up to 4 women and can marry them with out telling the other wife / wives ...  but Egypt is Egypt and you never know ..
A couple of quick checks that you may be able to have your intended husband do ...
visit the office of the marriage court in Cairo (the only place a foreign national can marry an Egyptian)  ... there is only one ... and ask ..
If they say you are ok then no problem
If they say it is not ok ... I personally would not believe it ... go an get advice from a Lawyer first to check if it is so or not and if it was me I would get two to check as I don't trust the whole Egyptian system ... I certainly do not believe you are going to have to lodge 40,000LE in an account for him in case you divorce him LOL ...
Regards
Ray

Thank you Ray ... are the lawyers there like under different services. Like family law etc. we did have that Urfi certificate done a few years ago I can bring. I appreciate your help it sounds like you’re u and your wife are so happy and I’m sure she appreciates the life you build for eachother
Best Regards
BC

@Mahmoud24, please make sure you know him well and that he is not just after the visa. Sorry for bringing that up but I have heard about similar cases many times.

I am not sure about lawyers specialising in certain areas ... a phone call to your embassy may sort that question .. but I would say that experience assisting a forigien marriage would be rare enough ... there would be ones for divorce which may have a better understanding of marriage law ..
Not sure you orfi paper will be of use but you could bring it .. orfi's main purposes is as a law to fight prostitution and to ensure any children born will have a father named .. they don't have a major legal standing ..

Thank you for the warning... I know all about the risks and yes we’ve known eachother for over 3 years. I’ve traveled to Egypt 4 times and have met his brothers and in home town. Met many of his friends and went Cairo and Hurghada. He does wish to come to USA with me. But with the politics  here it’s unlikely for a long time. I was married for a very long time 38 yrs. So it’s not like I’m desperate to marry again lol. We are good :)

Hello, 3 years is good time especially if you met his family... Good luck

:)

I don't trust him sorry .... I hate to hurt you but please don't trust him

I am going through an anullment because my egyptian husband is a fraud. They will sweet talk you and promise you everything but do not fall for it. They arw good at what they do.

I’m beginning to feel that also... we hired a lawyer to assist in marriage for us but I couldn’t get my divorce papers translated here in USA at the Consulate in Houston. They just stamped it without translation. Went to Cairo and lawyer promised all ok.... then he said because the papers didn’t say final it was rejected. The papers say decree- divorce. So my fiancé tried to go finish all yesterday and argued with the lawyer. Then now somehow turned into it’s my fault and he doesn’t want to even talk to me now. I told him it’s all about him I guess and I’m upset also. Maybe it’s for the best.

Yesssss. You nailed it. It is all about them. Consider yourself lucky to have escaped that. Be thankful. Look at me, i am hurting so bad inside from all of this, but atleast i found out he was a fraud within two montha of being here in the US. I am positove he is already living with another woman. I mean who leaves all of their belongings and never returns to get them?

How long or how was he accepted to come to USA with you. Just didn’t have much hope of him even coming. I’m sorry this happened to you in your life. I love him also for over 3 years..

It took 1 and 1/2 years for him to be granted his visa. Everything happened so fast. I didnt have time to even think. Thank you for your empathy.

Its hard to handle that people could use you that way. How long was your relationship with him before you married. And given the US immigration climate here I didn’t think it would be possible for a visa to be granted. We were thinking that he’d have to wait a few years till current President is finished. I hope you are okay. I know it’s a lot to give of your time and travel there. And cost of not only your money but your heart. When did he arrive here recently? Sorry I just am surprised he got the visa. Many of my love friends are married to USA women and haven’t been able to travel.

We were together for only 6 months prior to our marriage. He got here in febuary. Alot of his friends got accepted too so i dont think it has any bearing on thar.

Interesting I thought not to even try to bring him here for awhile. I hope your situation gets settled and you move forward in peace. If you ever need to talk you can reach out to me k. Take good care of yourself and keep your head up ... you did all you did for kindness and trusting love :)

I think we all will findthe good and bad in every place of the world,i was in a business partnership with american woman and she fooled me and take my money,but i learned from my lesson,it is all about your choises in ĺife,people should be smarter in thier choises.

Yes I agree and I’m sorry for what you went through it’s hard not to trust when you love somebody so much .  It’s frustrating to get through all the hoops of marriage there especially when I had a divorce here and the paperwork doesn’t match up to what Egyptian government wants .
I know that economy is very hard in Egypt and I just want him to be safe and happy we will always be close even though we will may not marry

You all are very kind persons, may be that's why some of the bad people encourage to get advantage of good people,what you all being through is make all of us feel pain ,but life will go on and you will proceed forward,i know a charity ngo can who can hire egyptian lawyer for such cases,you can demand by your right an het what he take from you,just do not give up.

Sorry for hearing all that and for what you being through,some bad people acts destroy egyptians reputation,you will find the good in egypt too  ,that is why many of our expats friend prefering living and investment in egypt,everything can be going well& safe in any place you choise to live in .

I really do love Egypt I was thinking of moving there seriously as I could afford it and was thinking of opening a business. I’ll see what unfolds and what the future brings. I did notice in Hurghada the tourism is starting to build back up which is great for the residents. The past few years it was sad to see so empty. We visited dream beach and all the regular sights and Mamsha was better businesses again but still not back all the way.

I agree with you,hurghada is very interesting place and full of many chances to start over and built a business there, egyptian authority give many privilage and wide space to invest in our local market,i tried to open business overseas and i can tell you that egypt is the most valiable place to invest in as a comparison to other markets.

Hi Ibrahim
What is your business in Egypt I hope you are doing well.

Iam doing well thanks for  you, in egypt we have two firms, real estate and export and import ,we particulaize in ready wears and leather products.

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