Citizenship by Descent (evidence)

Hi there,

I am looking to apply for dual citizenship (British-Maltese) via my 2nd great-grandfather, and 3rd great-grandfather. I am struggling, however, with getting the supporting evidence!

All of my Maltese descendants were born before 1863, and so I have to rely upon parish records (as far as I am aware), but these are difficult to find.

How have others obtained this information?

as far as i am aware you can only claim citizenship like you are describing in extreme circumstances. i think you are too far removed from a maltese citizen, please see below excerpts from the identity malta website.

Category B:

You were born abroad of a father likewise born abroad but your paternal grandfather and great-grandparent were both born in Malta.

Category D:

You can prove descent from a person born in Malta, you are a citizen of a country other than the country in which you reside and your access to the country of which you are a citizen is restricted.

In this case, you must produce all birth and marriage certificates as necessary, starting from your birth and ascending to the ancestor who was born in Malta. If the link is broken or cannot be proved by documentary evidence or, if the birth certificate of the ancestor born in Malta cannot be traced, then you cannot submit an application for citizenship. < this is essentially for refugees who have maltese ancestors.

i gained my citizenship via my dad and grandfather being born in and citizens of malta and even that was a difficult process.

Amendments re: mothers
From Aug 1 1989 children born outside Malta to Maltesen born mother acquired citizenship automatically.
From Feb 10 2000, a person born outside Malta between Sept 21 1964 and 31 July 1989 to Maltese mother may apply by registration.
Prior to this, only unmarried mothers could pass on citizenship.  Lol

Otherwise, yeah, it looks like if the line is broken, your ancestors would have to apply first.

The application requirements are not very clear online, but I had been informed by a citizenship and expatriate affairs officer in Malta of the requirements. One has to prove 2 consecutive generations through birth and marriage evidence, and parish records would be acceptable where birth/marriage certificates were not available (e.g. in cases of generations born before 1863).

Is he just wrong?

I think you're too far removed, but there's some quality engrish on the government website, what it actually means is anyones guess.

The direct descendant, second or subsequent generation, born abroad of an ascendant who was born in Malta of a parent who was also born in Malta.

i would ask 3 government reps because people who work for the govt often misunderstand English, so wont fully grasp how you have explained your situation and misunderstand the laws they are supposed to be experts in. so to try and get a clear answer ask various people because in the end it needs to be approved by someone high up who does actually know their stuff, so you might spend months compiling only to be told its not to be.
i went to the citizenship office 4 times before they told me i needed an apostatized birth certificate and that i would be surrendering my birth certificate forever. yes i am now a birth certificatless person.
i also went through 3 rounds at the transport Malta getting my Aussie license transferred to Maltese because no one knew what i actually needed until i met someone on the 3rd visit who do. so i would ask ask ask.

My dad has applied (via marriage as my mum is Maltese) and they told hm he'd need to give up his original certificate too, which he has not done yet. There is no way I'd give up my original Cdn birth certificate. Though it may be possible to get another, what is the point in that? A certified copy should do.

Surely you just request a new one? I have never heard of this craziness where you are somehow birth certificate less

In Malta it's even online. I ordered 2 yesterday for our kid.

because by becoming a citizen of malta you need to register your birth with our registry and the way of doing this is by surrendering your birth cert to them, this also shows you are serious about becoming a citizen and a national of malta. i could get a replacement cert from aust if i needed but i know its a big hassle and my life is in malta so my ID gets me everything i need here, so for now i am ok without it.
if you will not give them the apostatized original you will likely not be granted citizenship. 

but i also wonder if this is a protocol that existed when you used to have to renounce other citizenship and it was something they kept. but it is what it is. citizenship is a serious thing and i also feel like they do not want people gaining citizenship fraudulently hence needing the original, and needing it apostatized

Birth certificate has nothing to do with commitment. Just request a new one from AU it's no big deal.

It's not like you are surrendering your birth right or anything. My kid is registered in 4 countries including Malta

oh wow it is really easy to order a new one, i remembered maybe 5 or 6 years ago i was going to get a new one and needed all my mums docs, now its all electronic its much easier :)

IT2015 :

oh wow it is really easy to order a new one, i remembered maybe 5 or 6 years ago i was going to get a new one and needed all my mums docs, now its all electronic its much easier :)

yes, the internet happened :)

There's not really such a concept as original birth certificate, the original is at the government where you were born and you never get to see it.

From the first one you have in your hand you only ever have copies, you can have as many as you like.  What makes them official is being apostilled when copied, Maltese for example can send you as many as you like all all already with the apostille for 22 each

It also have nothing to do with nationality - we're not maltese but kid has a maltese birth cert, its just where you are born thats it.  Malta and other commonwealth nations might consider it if ever there's a question about your domicile.

Hey Kinglott,

If you're having trouble gathering all the documents together, just get in contact with a genealogist over in Malta and have them do it for you. You can find their websites by a quick google search and then just send one an email.

When I applied I did it through my Grandfather and Great Grandmother so I was able to just get birth certificates for them, but I ended up having a genealogist put together some family trees that went back to the 1600's using parish records. The whole thing cost me about $200 AUD if I'm remembering correctly.

Oh and btw if I were you I would do as the others say and check with a few officials to make sure that your connection isn't too far back before applying. From memory the application itself was about $240 AUD so you don't want to be spending hundreds if you can find out whether or not you would be knocked back from the outset.

You could well be fine though, there are a bunch of other countries I know of (Italy for example) that don't really care how far back you go for citizenship by descent.

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