Poverty Crisis in the heart of the island

Thank you, Rey. This is important information -- certainly different from what seems to be a shop-shop-shop-'til-you-drop mentality in the east, as evidenced by the full parking lots, crowded stores and well-dressed people.

Maybe the government needs to deal with the situation from a third world point of view. I am not sure that the US is the best example of how to deal with this situation and it seems like Puerto Rico defines itself in many ways by the mainland standard. Mass transit probably would have been more in place if car ownership had not been encouraged. Self reliance on food might have been more active if convenience foods were not as accessible and this would have led to better health in the long run.  Puerto Rico seems like a country where what works on the mainland does not work as well here. Hawaii is in a similar situation. These native cultures do not adapt so easily to a different kind of culture forced upon them. Hawaii has the largest homeless population in the US. Native Americans are as challenged.   I am grateful for a lot of the infrastructure that Puerto Rico has acquired from the US. Drinkable water. Somewhat dependable highways. Food stamp programs,  Social Security programs but maybe Puerto Ricans will have to take some responsibility and attend to their own needs without looking for a handout. There is a small grass roots movement that I know of on the South coast that is thinking more on these lines. Casa Pueblo in Adjuntas does a wonderful job in educating people in this way too. The solution may have to start at this kind of basic level.

Completely agree with mrkpytn.

Mrkpytn wrote:

Puerto Rico seems like a country where what works on the mainland does not work as well here. Hawaii is in a similar situation. These native cultures do not adapt so easily to a different kind of culture forced upon them. Hawaii has the largest homeless population in the US. Native Americans are as challenged.

There are several common areas between them:
1) All 3 were colonized / taken over in the past by a European type culture
2) All the natives are poor, sure there are exceptions. But basically we are talking haves and haves not.
3) All had strong culture, they are used to do things their way, American / European ways were forced into them
4) Regardless, the vast majority did not vote to be assimilated, most did not vote and the minority ruled.
5) Not as educated on average, most can't afford it, not that many college degrees either. Specially before the last 30 years
6) Last but not least they all had their own language and were forced to accept English.
7) They lost their lands and their agriculture were changed from internal consumption to export agriculture. For the hunters, their hunting was curtailed. Some were shoved into reservations.

This is my point...Puerto Ricans, Hawaiians, Native Americans have not adapted the to The European/American way of living as a whole. Some have adapted exceedingly well but as a whole I am not so sure if a certain  amount of people have been able to. Hawaii has the largest homeless population in the US.  We are talking about 3 generations of  indoctrination that has not taking a foothold. Here might lie the problem for a vast number of people of these cultures. Maybe the DNA imprint is stronger in some.  Just maybe a reintroduction of some sort of the old way could be incorporated into a life style that utilizes some aspects of what is useful and discarding what does not apparently work. Sacred Ritual was a big part of native cultures and I may open a can of worms here but Judeo/Christian rituals may not have served theses peoples. Missionary work is like an enforced doctrine on some people. Maybe the real issues run deeper than where the next meal is coming from. This might be too much generalizing but I have not heard of another solution other than trying to work with what does not work. I try not to let myself get manipulated by what does not work for my temperament and maybe this is why I can empathize with this situation in some way.

I would guess the problem is cultural, they don't want to change and maybe also some resentment about how they were treated in the past. Look at the issue with whites and blacks in the mainland, it is all over the news and it has been very long since slavery ended. I as a native Puerto Rican can not understand why the hatred continues between them.

6) Last but not least they all had their own language and had to adapt to English.

Spanish is not the native language there, either.  That died out with the Tainos.  Just sayin'

Hey Rey,
That's an easy answer.  When I come to Luquillo Beach in December, let's have a cup of coffee and I will explain to you the cause and the reason for the strife!

annabfalter wrote:

6) Last but not least they all had their own language and had to adapt to English.

Spanish is not the native language there, either.  That died out with the Tainos.  Just sayin'

You are right about that but they spoke Spanish for 400 years and today after 119 years under the US only a portion speaks English and not necessarily at home, we are speaking natives, not second or third generation born in the US mainland.

Psych2 wrote:

Hey Rey,
That's an easy answer.  When I come to Luquillo Beach in December, let's have a cup of coffee and I will explain to you the cause and the reason for the strife!

I won't be in the island in December so you will need to beam it to me Psych way.

Two points:

First, economic development occurs most markedly along coastlines.  ALL coastlines.  Look at any country in the world (that isn't landlocked) and the major economic centers will be coastal.

Second, look at a map of PR.  Highways, when constructed, simply connected these pre-existing population centers.  To get from San Juan to Cabo Rojo is roughly 100 miles, as the crow flies (at least according to Pythagoras).  How far is the drive?  The interior is unconnected.

I live in a tremendously poor part of Virginia.  My county has a 25% poverty rate (yes, I know that is less than PR, but the state average is 10%).  We are in the middle of the state, and to get onto the closest interstate is a 2-hour drive.

This isn't colonialism, nor is it culture.  It's geography.

Yes, it is something to think about, as it all spreads outward. If you pull up https://caguas.gov.pr, looks perfectly normal, inviting, two rivers. Clasificados lists some 127 homes, that's homes not apartments, for rent. Looks like some haven't even been cleaned up to rent.  Could be people who left before finding buyers, so they just let realtors try to find tenants.

My point is simple: Here is the translation of an article I read and some numbers that you all may find interesting.

Nothing to add but found the article very interesting... thank you!

Aharkness wrote:

Nothing to add but found the article very interesting... thank you!

You are welcome.

Several members have been looking at Las Marias and other towns at the edges of the central part of PR. Due to economic conditions there it is cheap to buy land and properties there but the towns are rather poor.

This makes it important when it comes to hiring help but there are negatives also such as having to drive long distances to perform any government activity and petty crimes like some tools disappearing off the shed are likely due to the poverty.

Absolutely, agree and it's not getting any better either. It is very sad to see what is going on between African Americans and Caucasians in the states. As an Afro-Puerto Rican I was aware of racism still existing and have experienced it myself but definitely never imagined at this level. This is one of the many reasons why we want to move to Puerto Rico because we love the racial diversity of our culture (Indigenous Native, African and European) that (for the most part) doesn't separate us. Informative article and good talking points on here!

annabfalter wrote:

6) Last but not least they all had their own language and had to adapt to English.

Spanish is not the native language there, either.  That died out with the Tainos.  Just sayin'

English is not the mainland's native language either. English and Christianity was imposed on the Native Americans and Africans.

Unfortunately the bigotry and racism is getting worse every day in the mainland. And is not just directed towards one specific group.

Our island, generally have more diversity and is more accepting.

I haven't witnessed any overt racism in PR (don't doubt that it exsits) just mostly acceptance - the locals we know are open and friendly to all.

The biggest problem I see is lack of work opportunity, especially for young people.  When the adult children of our PR friends must go to the states for a job, it hurts families and is a major problem.

When I was growing up in PR (Eons ago), a white father may be best friend with a black guy and he would come eat at the house and come to parties, play domino,  and all was well. But if his daughter fell in love with the guy and he was black the father would sometimes refuse the marriage. It was sort of a preserving the line not because he tough less of the black guy. So it was more of a marriage thing. That all has changed now but there may be a few stragglers. (not that we are super white anyway, LOL).

Gay versus straight is still around, but a lot less than it used to be. Now is accepted but it makes other people uncomfortable if they get to kissing and stuff. It is changing slowly.

The younger generation is more tolerant and understanding of the gay and lesbian community in the island. We see more open relationships between same sex in the island now than when I was growing up. Most families now are more understanding and willing to accept their children's preferences.
Today's day we even have transgender shows at some of our local clubs, something unheard of when I was younger.

El cotorrito, was a transgender variety club when I was growing up. High society used to attend. I assume that has changed.

These are very interesting comments and thoughts about a legacy that our country (United States) refuses to deal with. Eventually, if left unresolved, it will be the catalyst that causes   United Stated to implode.   As an African-American professor and psychologist, I have spent the last 30+ years, speaking, presenting and teaching on issues of race, and bias. I am anxious to return to Puerto Rico to see how the culture deals with these challenges and hang out with my brothers and sisters.

Thanks for sharing.

People say NY is the melting pot, layers upon layers of different ethnic groups live there. We did one better in PR ......... We stirred the pot, that is why we don't have the same issues, we interbreed which is great to create a good set of genes.

Interesting article about our gene pool.
PUERTO RICAN GENE POOL RUNS DEEP
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/new … e-1.513434

Biologist Says Puerto Rican Women Possess Ideal Genotype Of The 'Perfect' Human Via DNA Ancestry
http://www.medicaldaily.com/biologist-s … try-313956

They sure have the curves!!!!

I ain't mad at PR!   PR I'm coming to join you!

ReyP wrote:

People say NY is the melting pot, layers upon layers of different ethnic groups live there. We did one better in PR ......... We stirred the pot, that is why we don't have the same issues, we interbreed which is great to create a good set of genes.

As a Nuyorican, I cosign on this! My mom is Puerto Rican with predominant European genes and my father is Puerto Rican with predominant African genes. In our culture this wouldn't be considered an inter-racial relationship because they are both Puerto Rican. My siblings and I are all a different mixture  from each other of our parents from skin tone, features and hair textures. Love that (most of us) Puerto Ricans acknowledge all of our roots without the stigma that some cultures face when they claim biracial or some mixture. On a different note, I love that there are so many open LGBT also on the island and that it is not something being shunned anymore. To see people openly and freely being themselves is a beautiful thing.

In other words, we are Satos and proud of it.

My grandfather on my father side is a black Puerto Rican and mostly whittish Puerto Rican on my mother side. We have dirty blonds, red heads, brunets, brown eyes, hazel, blue and green eyes all in the same family just different generations. We have a very varied gene pool. We have a Spaniard somewhere in the great-great-grad dad line. My great grand mother and my grandmother on my mother side had green eyes, my mother and I have brown eyes.

ReyP wrote:

In other words, we are Satos and proud of it.

My grandfather on my father side is a black Puerto Rican and mostly whittish Puerto Rican on my mother side. We have dirty blonds, red heads, brunets, brown eyes, hazel, blue and green eyes all in the same family just different generations. We have a very varied gene pool. We have a Spaniard somewhere in the great-great-grad dad line. My great grand mother and my grandmother on my mother side had green eyes, my mother and I have brown eyes.

From one sato to another, I agree 100%.