Need lawyer - Birth Cert

I wouldn't be paying anyone, it's a basic procedure, they are just shafting you severely. Have you done what is in this link

https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/vietna … gistration

Thanks a lot of for the link.  Just read it and will read again.

Unfortunately, we're getting a run around from the local government officials.  And the fact that I can't communicate with them is making the process quite painful.  I really have no way to understand what I need to do to make the local officials work with me.  Communicating through the boy's mom is just not working.  There's way too much getting lost in translation.

Also, we're currently staying in HCM but the baby was born near Da Nang.  So we don't have the ability to visit the local gov unless we get on a plane.  We've been sending the boy's grandmother for visits required to local gov. 

I sat in on a meeting with the local gov and boy's grandmother just after the baby's birth.  Didn't accomplish anything during that meeting as no English was spoken.  Just advised to get ADN.  Which we did, but now the local gov is saying they don't approve of the mixed name(western and Vn) we listed for the baby on the ADN papers...argh.

Add to all this, our un-married status and that being a constant pain point with the boy's mom.  With every complication there comes the reminder from the boy's mom that if we were married all of these problems would disappear.

For these reasons, I would be more than happy to spend a few hundred dollars on a lawyer to get this done.

Sounds about right. Nothing is easy in VN, they make it difficult to gain money. Also, its not illegal to get an English name on the certificate. It sounds to me like your childs mother is not trying. She has hinted at marriage and that seems to be her main line of thought. Your situation is not good and local officials are more than difficult because you arent VN. Step aside and let them sort it out, you may be surprised what can be done when Anh Tay is not there.

Anh Tay...had to google it :-) 

My concern is that the boy is now approaching six months and nothing is really happening.

The section about the father on the birth certificate and in the birth register is left blank for a child who is born out-of-wedlock and whose father is unidentifiable. If by the time of the birth registration there is a person who claims the child, the provincial or municipal Justice Office settles the recognition of the child and the birth registration at the same time.

This part is not very clear to me.  I guess I need to claim the child?  Any ideas?

Thanks again!

Are you simply concerned with having your name on the certificate, or do you want documentation that will entitle your child to British subjugation?  (That does sound odd but I believe it is proper.) Perhaps you should visit the consulate to get some answers.

As I understand, the very first step in the process for getting citizenship is to first obtain birth cert.  Can't do anything without that.

A declaration for the child citizenship must be made on the birth cert.  That is, we must declare the child either Vn or Brit.

We can declare the child as a Brit and by doing so we can easily get birth cert with any name we choose.  However, doing that means the child would not be Vn citizen.  This is a problem for us.  We want the child to have Vn citizenship.

So, we would like to declare the child a citizen of Vn.  This would be stated on his birth cert.  We would then apply for Brit citizenship once we have birth cert stating his Vn citizenship - a fairly easy process I've been reading.

But it seems that declaring Vn citizenship on birth cert comes with complications for foreign and un-married parents.  The complications being, not able to use a western name, not having father's name on birth cert.

Oh and I forgot to mention.  I had a meeting at the Brit consulate.  There I was told in so many words that perhaps some incentives were being sought by the local gov.  I understand this is fairly common occurrence.  Just not sure how big the incentives need to be and how to deliver said incentives :-D

Is a western name really that important?  You (or he) can always change it later.  Be sure to pick a good name like Phat or Phuc.  Just joking.

Luckily for Americans, we have a process where the father can simply supply the relevant information to the embassy or consulate and get a certificate of birth abroad.  This does not replace the VN birth certificate.  It adds to it.

Haaaa...

We prefer Hung Phat Phuc 

Mixed name is not critical.  Agree that changing later is not a big deal.

However, we do want to have my name on the cert.

If you want to PM and I will give you the name of an English speaking solicitor in Saigon.

Thanks colinoscapee.  Will do that.

Making a bit of progress today.  Getting the name changed on the ADN test to Vn name.

When I got married, it took four months to do paperwork that could have been done in a week. Government officials here are very inept, its a sloooooooow process.

False alarm on the ADN name change.  Of course, now the ADN people are saying they can't change the name on the ADN test.  They state we'd have to run a new test if we want to change the name.  What a joke...and nightmare...

I went through, and going through the same issue. I think some of the info being provided is a bit outdated. Seems the law has changed (again) on naming conventions. You must be talking to the same attorney I talked to who want 40,000 VND. There is indeed said to be a fee so that things can happen.
  But.....but...I think perhaps you may be another situation I was in. That being mommies has a bias and you might not be getting the complete story. So Before you shell out any money it maybe best to figure out where mommies really stands on this issue. These people have some VERY deep seated beliefs, and they are great manipulators. And yes, my wife love me SO SO much.
  You may want to consider not being to terribly concerned about it as it pertains to Vietnamese BC. Especially since you and mommies are not married. There are many ramifications to the child not having Vietnamese citizenship. One he can not get gov't medical care, her can not attend school. As he gets older those things become worse. And his BC really does not matter from the standpoint of most foreign countries. I think you, as Americans can also, get a Certificate of Birth Abroad and put any name you wish on it. But with that comes a pledge to support the child financially. I am not saying you would not. But you may very well find out you and mommies relationship is not what you think it is.
  Then too, I suspect your already in the penalty window for not getting the child Vietnamese BC. It must be done within the first two months. Not to worry the fine is not much per day.
  Good luck, sounds like your going to need it. I lost my child to all this loving and caring from one of the beautiful Vietnamese gals. So been down this road. Hope your not on the same road I traveled. And yes.....I swore it was not the case when others told me either. And we are married, and all the BC stuff was all agreed to before we even married.

Hi Diazo. First off, I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. I feel for you man and I hope things work themselves out.  It sounds like you've been put through the ringer and that totally sucks. Good luck to you.

I'll reserve divulging more on my situation as only time will tell what mom's real motives may be.

I'm totally fine with vn name and cert. can get the other docs from my country pretty easily once I get passed this first hurdle.

Anyone out there have any success stories to share?

I have a friend also from UK. He may able to give you suggestions. Had been in Vietnam for the past 10 years

Hi Guys
I am from the U.K and my wife is Vietnamese. We have 2 sons born here, the first five years ago and we weren't married then and he has English first and surnames and Vietnamese middle names and we have the full birth certificate and Vietnamese passport for him.
My second son is just 5 months old, and we were now married at the time of his birth, and we have the full birth certificate for him with English first and surnames and Vietnamese middle names. We only received the birth certificate around 2 months ago so I would be very surprised if was not allowed now. We were told that as long as he has at least one Vietnamese name a passport is no problem at all, which proved to be correct.
We didn't pay a lawyer, we didn't pay any coffee money, we had a bit of a runaround because of the lost in translation aspect between my wife and I and also her inexperience in dealing with official situations like this but we did it and it is possible.
Good luck!

May I ask what vital statistic office you used (city)?

My wife is from a small town in the Tay Ninh province so for my first son it all had to be done in the main provincial town which is also called Tay Ninh but it has all changed now and my second son's paperwork was all processed in the small local town where we live.

The link below is to some information regarding the Long form birth certificate that I put this in the forums a few years back  in July 2013, just after I had received the long form birth certificate. This information would now be a little different as now the local small town offices are allowed to process a lot more of the legal documentation required for ordinary life than before, well at least in Tay Ninh, so I am assuming it is more country-wide.

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 70#1372676

RICHIE2013 wrote:

My wife is from a small town in the Tay Ninh province so for my first son it all had to be done in the main provincial town which is also called Tay Ninh but it has all changed now and my second son's paperwork was all processed in the small local town where we live.

The link below is to some information regarding the Long form birth certificate that I put this in the forums a few years back  in July 2013, just after I had received the long form birth certificate. This information would now be a little different as now the local small town offices are allowed to process a lot more of the legal documentation required for ordinary life than before, well at least in Tay Ninh, so I am assuming it is more country-wide.

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 70#1372676

This doesn't seem much different than what I had to do in the early 1970s. It also seems that dealing with smaller towns etc. is still a lot friendlier, less stressful and expensive.

just went through this process in Hanoi with my wife. There is a long way to get your name on the birth certificate (about 15 working days) and you will have to do it as you are not married. First of all though you need to find out the mother's permanent address (where she is registered in a household booklet) and visit the authorities there. My wife and I live in Da Nang and the baby was born there, but we are both registered in Hanoi so we had to get the birth certificate there. We did this in April when the baby was 8 months old and my divorce papers arrived from Australia.

You will need, a letter from the police in your local area - the owner or manager of your apartment should help you with this because they will have registered you with the local police. Next you need the original birth notice from the hospital (Giay chung sinh), which will have only the mother's name on it. Then you will need to fill in the appropriate form from the local authority, go with a translator and ask for an application for a birth certificate. You will also need an agreement form, you agree that you are the child's father, and the mother accepts that you are the father and you both agree to have your name on the birth certificate).

Next, certified copies of your passport, the mother's ID, and household book of the baby's mother, and ADN (DNA) test.

Details of all the paperwork and links to forms can be found on this website - in VNese though.

http://thanhxuan.gov.vn/portal/home/dan … px?uid=525

Best if you agree to VNese nationality for the baby and apply for joint citizenship at a later date, so keep a certified copy of both the birth certificate and DNA result.

My wife is a lawyer and she handled all this, and got the marriage certificate as well, but it took all of 5 weeks for both, so don't expect things to go smoothly.

Good luck

BTW the baby's name should not be an issue unless it is different to the name on the hospital notice of birth. My little girl is Ruthie Mai, and I had no issues with this at all.

Exactly what Andrew Paul Gregory said.

Except we didn't need to do a DNA for our 2 kids. Is this something new??

You will need a DNA for a Brit citizenship though and it is more a hassle than doing your birth cert. here. Took a friend 6 months to sort that one and get a passport.

You certainly don't need a lawyer. Just you, the mother and some back and forth between the 2 relative authorities.

Good luck with it.

And I had tons of issues with getting the name we desired. Never did prevail

Downsouth wrote:

You will need a DNA for a Brit citizenship though ....

All I can say is WOW.  Does the Queen have so little trust in the integrity of her subjects?   Americans can obtain a Consular Report of Birth Abroad simply based on the attestation of the parents.  Of course, like a lot of US documents, the fine print probably has a notice about it being a felony to misrepresent.  Still a DNA test seems a bit much.  I wonder if the test is still required if the British subject is the mother. 

THIGV wrote:

Downsouth wrote:

You will need a DNA for a Brit citizenship though ....

All I can say is WOW.  Does the Queen have so little trust in the integrity of her subjects?   Americans can obtain a Consular Report of Birth Abroad simply based on the attestation of the parents.  Of course, like a lot of US documents, the fine print probably has a notice about it being a felony to misrepresent.  Still a DNA test seems a bit much.  I wonder if the test is still required if the British subject is the mother. 

Haha. Does anyone trust the integrity of the British?

Au. citizenship for our two took two weeks and then one week for their passports. It was too easy.

The Aus  citizenship form (118) does state that you may be required to take a DNA test, it all depends on the circumstances.

Andrew Paul Gregory wrote:

The Aus  citizenship form (118) does state that you may be required to take a DNA test, it all depends on the circumstances.

Yes, true for 118. Although I was not required to do so.

I was actually referring to Viet. birth cert. though. As the OP stated it was a requirement and it never got a mention when we did our paperwork to get my name added.

Hi ncollins10021,
I am a lawyer in Vietnam and so sorry about your situation. I think you do not need to hire a lawyer for it. Please find the regulations as follow and hope my advices helpful for you.
1. The children are entitled to recognize parents certified birth certificate which does not depend on whether married or not --> So do not worry about it.
2. Name of child: the naming of children is totally under the agreement of the father and mother and be transcribed by Latin.
3. Applications for procedure:
- written agreement of selected nationality of mother and father;
- the Declaration of birth registration (prescribed form);
- birth certificate of hospital where the baby's birth and DNA examination paper;
- certified copies of your passport, the mother's ID, and household book of the baby's mother.
4. Applications submitted at the mother registered permanent residence.

Kit Kim wrote:

2. Name of child: the naming of children is totally under the agreement of the father and mother and be transcribed by Latin.

I nearly fell off my chair when I read this the first time.  Then I realized that of course you meant Latin letters as opposed to Asian characters or Sanskrit based alphabets.  Imagine a country full of people with the name Nguyeneus on their birth certificates.   

Really this was a great post, detailed and informative.  The fact that you perceived the way the forum rules work and didn't just say "Here's my number, call me" also speaks to your capabilities.  It's amazing that so many lawyers and real estate agents can't figure out a few simple rules (and how to get around them.) Even if the OP really doesn't need a lawyer, he could do worse than to send you a PM and make arrangements.

Thanks very much for your advice, Kit Kim.

As best I can tell, we are not being permitted to name our child as we desire.  I say - as best I can tell - because I am getting all information second hand and translated.  I'm being told that local officials have stated that we need to name the child in a certain way, ie, we must use Vietnamese first and middle names with the acceptance of an English name for the child's family or last name.

To give a bit more background, we went for ADN test and listed our son's name on the ADN test as english/vietnamese/english - first/middle/last. 

After the ADN testing and after we attempted to get the birth cert with our child's name listed as  eng/viet/eng on the ADN test, my son's mom told me that local officials stated they won't accept the naming.  They said they will accept viet/viet/english - first/middle/last.  Not sure why local officials didn't mention this before the ADN test or if they did but I was never told.

At that point, I agreed to this request with the thinking that we'd apply for a name change on the child's foreign citizenship papers later on.  I advised the child's mom that we would name the child viet/viet/english as requested by local officials.  To my surprise this would require a new ADN test as per the local officials.  This being the case because the ADN test needed to list child's name as it would appear on the birth certificate.

One would think that the child's name on the ADN test would be irrelevant as technically the child is nameless until the birth certificate is finalized.  But apparently, local officials are saying that the name listed on ADN test needs to match the name to be listed on birth certificate.  So in our case, we needed a second ADN test with viet/viet/english name which would match the name we listed on the birth cert. 

So we went for second ADN test and we managed to get the local official on the phone to talk to the ADN staff.  The ADN staff talked to local officials and their take away from the conversation with the local official on the acceptable naming was the same that the child's mom presented to me.  So, it doesn't appear that the child's mom is purposely being deceptive for whatever reason.

So with that all said, we are in possession of two ADN tests.  The first with child's name as eng/viet/eng and the second with viet/viet/eng.  We are heading back to the province to apply for the birth certificate. 

I'd prefer to use the first naming convention, eng/viet/eng, and you have mentioned that the law states that this is entirely acceptable if we the parents are in agreement on the naming.  However, it doesn't appear that I have any way to express this to the local officials.  Assuming child's mom is on board with me and wants eng/viet/eng name I could ask her to make the argument for us.  I'm just not sure that she's capable of this kind of persuasion and/or insistence.

I'm thinking my best bet might be to get a translator on a call with the local official in order for me to get a better idea of exactly what the local officials position is and what exactly needs to happen to make him let us name as desired. 

Otherwise, we simply use viet/viet/english name and change it later on foreign citizenship papers.  Of course, this is assuming the local official doesn't once again change his position and perhaps demand a viet/viet/viet name.

I will inbox you - Kim Kat - to see if you might be able to help with some translating.

Thanks again!

Regardless of what name(s) you child ends up with, you should think twice about changing names later in life.  If you do, almost every subsequent government transaction, whether in Vietnam or the West, will involve including documentation of the change.  Coming to the US, my wife kept her name as is just for that reason.  Remember K.I.S.S.

In fact if you choose, as you say, a Viet/Viet/English name (Western ordering I assume) your child may be happier in life with a Vietnamese first name as, combined with his family name, it will be a positive assertion of his mixed identity.  Also notice that many in Asia use both of their personal names together.  In Korea it is nearly universal, but it is not uncommon in Vietnam particularly if the "first" personal name is sexually ambiguous and for that reason the the middle name is Thi or Anh.

and you can make the name anything you want on the Certificate of Birth Abroad. And you can do that independent of your wife's wishes.

Hi,

I had this problem with my first daughter. I was married so that is not a concern. It was the law that the name had to be viet/viet/eng until I paid 2m in coffee money and then the law changed. Save yourself all the aggro.

Diazo wrote:

and you can make the name anything you want on the Certificate of Birth Abroad. And you can do that independent of your wife's wishes.

Again your child may face a lot of headaches later in life explaining why their documents do not match.  Of course if they spend their entire live in the US it may be OK to use whatever name is on the CRBA but if they wish to avail themselves of dual citizenship, having non-matching certificates could be a big headache. 

mike.gulvin wrote:

I had this problem with my first daughter. I was married so that is not a concern. It was the law that the name had to be viet/viet/eng until I paid 2m in coffee money and then the law changed. Save yourself all the aggro.

Maybe I am missing something but it seems a bit ethnocentric for so many to feel so strongly that their children must have western first names.  Standing up for your right to have your child have your family name, I can see.  Is it that important that they carry your first name, or the name of one of your antecedents, as well?   I am wondering how the Vietnamese mothers feel in some of these cases.  Isn't V/V/E a suitable compromise? 

Now if the mother is a westerner too, you have a point.

The multiple names based on citizenship has no playa, one on the other. I my child has a Vietnamese birth certificate and naturally Vietnamese citizenship, he can get a Vietnamese passport.
On the other hand if he has an American parent he can also get CRBA (which is not a BC, but excepted in America as one), have his entire name anything the parents desire, and get a US passport and SSN. In America he would never have to present any Vietnamese documents for anything. Indeed they have no reason to know anything about his Vietnamese ties. Same in Vietnam, here he just present his Vietnamese documents. Yes, being a male he would be subject to military service in both countries, unless he denounced one. I don't see any other cons.
  There was never any intention of my child spending his adult life in Vietnam. So why would he want to be called Phuc, Cong, Last name. The obvious is going to happen. For my personal needs I could give a hoot. I am going to call him the name I want, wether it is on any paperwork. I had Vietnams jammed down my throat and my wife would
not cooperate with my getting CRBA. No benefit is passed to me if he has US citizenship and I will probably be dead before he would have attended university. Seems mighty narrow minded to give up the benefits she and he would receive had he had US citizenship. Mainly my SS survivor benefits and the opportunity to matriculate to a US university without  the hassles encountered by non-citizens. But I am not going to fall on my sword over it all.

Ethnocentric maybe one way of looking at it, or it could be simply the desire to name one's own child what you wish regardless of officious personnel and nationalistic tendencies of governments whoever they are. For me, my wife was happy with the names we chose. She wanted her family name as the middle name for both our children and we chose a Greek word (name) for my first daughter and an outlaw for the second. For us this was a completely joint decision. The point of this part of the thread is that the officials are telling the original poster that he cannot lawfully do something that he is actually perfectly entitled to do.

Diazo:  We are aware of your hostile situation regarding the CRBA from another thread.   However if you have not actually gotten a CRBA with another name, consider the following.  No matter where you travel, the name on your passport and the name on your ticket must match.  If you have two passports with different names, how will that work?  If your child enters Vietnam with his Viet passport he must show it to leave because he has no entry stamp or visa in his US passport, yet he must show his US passport as well to show the airline and Viet export controls that he has the right to fly to the US.  Therefore to move freely, dual citizens must carry both passports.  Now what if they don't match?  That's a recipe for an additional questioning that could easily lead to being detained long enough to miss your plane.

I realize that for many, the emotional aspects of this situation may be paramount.  I am simply trying to advocate for a caution that should make life easier for your children.  Remember, it's their future, not yours.  Different names on different passports could really make travel difficult.