Mistakes expats make in Indonesia

Hi guys,
Just been reading through the blogs and after 5 years I can't say I've had too many problems with either the government or local Indonesians generally. A couple of points generally for expats.
1. If you lease or rent a residence- do check the closeness of the nearest mosque. I did learn after signing a 6 month lease in an apartment that the room shook and the windows vibrated at the call to prayers 5 times a day to such an extent as to make the place unliveable. There is noisy and there is LOUD- so check first before signing the lease 😊.
2. Surabaya- fantastic city, great people.
3. Government- take the right paperwork- do your homework and do dress neatly. Shorts and thongs are fine for Kuta but NOT government offices including immigrasi.
4. Immigrasi are NOT the enemy
5. Time here flows like the tide. Be flexible
6. This is not Europe or Australia.
7. Be courteous, and respectful and do learn the language. It helps.
8. Be firm with your handshake- don't break their hand.
9. Be photographed at odd times and places is normal. Not every Indonesian meets foreigners and they do enjoy our presence.
10. The Jakarta Post- even the locals laugh at the articles involving corruption, Facebook and other social apps.
11. If you park your vehicle- identify the parking attendant, pay him the correct amount and DO leave your vehicles handlebars unlocked- they often move vehicles around. He will help you get out when you need to leave.
12. Smile and listen. It will get you a long way.

I love this country, it's people and the lifestyle - wouldn't change it for the world.

Most expat mistakes are down to getting ratty or trying to turn this place into their home country.
The post above this one spells out very nicely how to adapt and remove stress from your life.

Yup careful when selecting a mover for household goods. Thought that engaging a local mover was a good idea. Hell I was wrong.... all lies... claimed to be experts with international destinations. My prized and rare fiberglass resembling elephants 4 chairs and a table fully destroyed. These movers  came to my home and did a hogwash packing and told me when they return to their wharehouse they would reinforce all valuable items with wooden crates. The donkeys told me that all items will be insured Bollocks the shock came when I tried to claim damage from them. All they compensated was a lousy Rp 1.5k for the set that cost me Rp10k real disgusting don't even batter an eye lid with local movers. Most of the other furniture and household items were packed by friends and neighbours with no breakage when shipped over here.
By the way my son's toys and music gadges all used items attracted hefty customs duties at Jakarta Rp7k.
I also paid a ransome of Rp16k to get release of my 2 pet poodles from quarantine on day 2 upon arrival. The place is tick infested, my dogs are house trained and live indoors if outdoors they are hand carried. We don't let them out in the grass if they get ticks, it is almost impossible to rid them off dogs with long fur.
Be cautious also with buying used cars My 2 year old car broke down after 6 months. Not worth the repair cost, I sold the damn thing for half the cost to the same dealer as I am not in the habbit of selling defective items to any car buyer.
Lesson learnt, never be duped by smooth talking half educated people. There are many more disgusting experiences but you will soon discover for yourself.
Believe in your inner voice to stay safe and be cautious of all sellers get black and white before parting with your hard earned cash.
Sorry to sound negative.
Cheers.

same experience, never use any local moving company, 80% of my furnitures are destroyed and I am still struggling with a lawyer to get it replaced. Also stay away from local lawyers, they just making the next round of money out of you. If you use a local company, and things are going wrong, thats your risk, i can tell you stories about using a local lawyer, useless and wasted money.

Hi Mr.Blue Eyes,
Somehow I am relieved. Thought that I was the only one facing problems here. Me too am married to an indonesian and she is a wonderful person. She too is shocked by the way things are going wrong for us. She lived in Malaysia for 22 years with me before returning here to be closer to her parents. We live in the desa which is away from the hustle and bustle of city life. There is not a single person whom speaks English here and am diying to have a conservation with anyone who can.
Cheers

Yep it's not easy living here or getting used to the way of life and finding things go wrong for absolutely no reason or a reason that makes sense.

I have had bad experiences with health insurance, motor bike credit, supermarkets, banks and the post office, all places you assume wouldn't cause trouble.
But if you work through it and focus on the simple things it works out in the end. Although not with health insurance or the post office but you can't have everything!

ya unfortunately its the reality, foreigners are not welcome here. Foreigners are just good a pokets on legs, as long as they can milk you like a cow, you are welcome, if you close the money flow, you are suddenly and very fast not welcome anymore, the same thing is happen when you start to critic their work, they smile in your face, but the smile is just the cover for the knife which you will immediately feel in your back.
After so many years I am turning my back towards these people here, because I finally saw the real character. So please be careful special in the village you will have no privacy, you as a foreigner are public property and you can't control your life anymore. Just be careful and always be aware: a foreigner has no rights in this country. good luck.

matabiru111 wrote:

ya unfortunately its the reality, foreigners are not welcome here.

I disagree totally.

Some foreigners are very much unwelcome but, if you're friendly and show respect for this wonderful country and the great people who live here, there isn't much by way of a problem.
I've had one Muslim with more extreme views suggest something less than friendly (mostly because he was too narrow minded and stupid to do anything else) and a couple of others who were unpleasant.
Apart from those, a grand total of zero problems in ten years and no issues about being seen as an ATM on legs.
The odd small shop has tried to rip me off and most charge a thousand or so more than is normal, but I'll live with that because they have bugger all and small change doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to me.

However, to qualify that, I know some foreigners have serious problems here but, as I have never had any issues worth much of a mention, I have to conclude it isn't the locals at fault.

After 5 years I still consider myself a newbie and my bahasa often attracts giggles from locals from all walks of life who are soon to correct but also thankful that I'm having a go. I really have not had too many problems and I'm sure that every country has its unsavory types (Australia is no less an example). The biggest problem with over pricing is Kuta but many a bule run into the same problem. In Surabaya I've found goid service for the things I need to get done and many operators do understand the business principle  of "return of service" - delivering what I want to make sure I come back. I noted the comments that we have different rights (less) but that's normal too in our home countries. Finally, can we differentiate between expats, foreigners, bule and tourists? Food for thought- may raise that in a new blog 😊

Finally, can we differentiate between expats, foreigners, bule and tourists? Food for thought- may raise that in a new blog

It isn't us we need to care about, it's the traders.
That goes more so around tourist areas where (Horrible honesty here) there are masses of tourists with loads of cash (by local standards) but very little by way of a clue.
That lot allow massive rip offs because they didn't bother to do the slightest research on the area and seem to assume prices are the same as in Australia/the UK/wherever.
That hits expats as we have to get over to the traders we aren't daft tourists.
Some get ratty and even nasty with the traders, something  totally pointless as there's no gain but enemies to be made.
I've seen expats do it and go away looking stupid, but also making all expats look stupid with them.

My last meeting with such a blithering idiot was in a cinema 21, the expat (bule) in front of me getting seriously stroppy with the dude trying to sell popcorn. The very foolish expat seemed to assume to guy was trying to rip him off but he very clearly wasn't.
Anyway, the fool went away and the look on the lad behind the counter was one of pure dread as he realised another bule was next.
As I'd seen the twit before me and his extremely rude messing about I decided extremely polite and calm was the way to sort out the lad's fears.
I used my best and most polite Indonesian, taking care to apologise because I didn't have the correct change and being generally very nice.
In doing so I took away the stereotype of the evil high handed bule and gave the lad a better thing to remember than the moron who had been before me.
The expat mistake - being high handed and nasty because you have a bit of cash.

You have to realise you're just another dude.

and my bahasa often attracts giggles from locals

I keep being told I speak Indonesian with a posh British accent, much to the amusement of the locals.
I'll get round to lessons one of these days but I can muddle through most conversations and I'm getting better every day.

Expats commonly don't bother to learn a word - a big mistake.

I try to learn a new word every day and my two year old son is bilingual but not a patient trainer. I often see the fear on people's eyes as I move towards the front of any queue but my Aussie littered bahasa is a calming bridge lol and a smile from the cashier means I'm linguistically on the right track. Rude foreigners are frustrating but a quick word in their ear about what they want helps all sides. Life's too short for tantrums at our age. I still think that Indonesia has 4 geographical areas for visitors namely Jakarta, Kuta, Papua and rest of Indonesia lol. All easy to navigate if you do your homework and apply the rules of courtesy and respect. Note I didn't include Aceh here as in my list of areas because the place and people were awesome.

Oh ya i nearly forgot fred will for sure comment. its a real fred logic: to get cheated on, lied to, misued over years its never the fault of the cheater, its never the fault of the liar and its never the fault of the one who is misusing another person. In this country its always the fault of the foreigner, what a weird logic. And of course that my god sister was murdered in this country its not a serioues issue which really matters. And more over its definetely not the fault of the indonesian killer. Freds permanent trivialization of other expats serioues problems and issues with this people here is irrisponsible and bringing expats who searching for the truth about this country in danger. Irrisponsible.

The truth of this country is simple.
Indonesia is generally safe and the people generally welcome most foreigners.
Getting angry is always a mistake.

No the truth is, it is not a safe country. And none is saying that anger is a good thing, but covering up evil with a smile is even worse than showing openely disappointment.

Expat mistake - and a very big one.

Local laws take a very dim view of illegal drugs so what will get you a slap on the wrist in Manchester could very easily get you six years slammed up here.
Illegal drugs are available here but it's a very bad idea to even consider messing about with them.
I know some expats (and tourists) play about with a bit of weed or whatever but it's very easy to find yourself in serious trouble for having even a tiny amount with you.
This policy means all the usual drug related crimes such as muggings or other thefts are minimised as there is nothing to drive the crime rate.
That low crime rate changes in the very few areas where drugs are more common.

Basically - Don't go near illegal drugs.

To my exposure here, there are 2 kinds of foreigners with family here.
Short term - The spoilt ones "C" level, the often refered to as exparts living in Indonesia and connected to their embassy for their every little need. All expenses is paid for by their employers
Long term - The foreigners that are married to locals living off pensions or off life savings. 
For the long term, it's a cultural shock expecially so when spouse does not prepare you for life here (can't blame, most of us met our wives/husbands in our home land and they have forgotten the tough living conditions and hardly any changes for the better years forward)
I have come to terms that we are living in a 3rd world country and burried the past. As in marriage the saying  "for better or for worse" 
Cheers.

Supadave wrote:

A couple of points generally for expats.

Loved it
I'll add a few points, mainly applicable amoung the Sundanese people in & around Bandung:

PUBLIC TRANSPORT:
- If a foreigner asks the Driver of an Angkot (public transportation) the cost of travelling from point A to B, he will almost always over-quote you.
The reason for this, is that he knows you probably come from a country with a MUCH stronger financial currency, that his higher cost will still be VERY cheap for you, and so he has an opportunity to make a profit when you don't know the correct price.
It is better to ask a few locals for the price first, and then just pay the Driver the correct amount when you get off (and smile & say thank you).

- If you put your bag, suitcase, or whatever NEXT TO you on the Angkot seat, you will be expected to pay double (i.e. for 2 people). The same applies if you sit in front and have e.g. a big suitcase or backpack with you.
The reason for this, is that your stuff occupies an extra seat (which the Driver could have made money from), and so he will expect you to pay for that seat.
It is better to put your stuff on your lap or in front of you on the floor, even if everyone has to climb over your stuff getting in & out. The locals are totally used to climbing over each other's stuff on the floor (incl. things like baskets overflowing with vegetables they take to the market).

LANGUAGE:
Because they translate directly from Indonesian into English, some words and instructions will be confusing, for example:
- When you visit them in their homes and they ask you if you LIKE something e.g. watermelon, and you say "Yes" they will send someone to go and buy watermelon for you, as they actually wanted to know whether you WANT watermelon.
- They will ask you if you do not want to OPEN your jacket, when they mean TAKE IT OFF.
- They will say that you can FOLLOW them, when they mean that you can GO WITH them.

CULTURE:
- When you visit them in their homes, they will usually within an hour, ask you THREE times whether you have already eaten. I used to become extremely irritated when they asked me the 2nd time, because I thought that they didn't believe or hear me the 1st time when I clearly stated that I have already eaten and are still very full. And when they just brought out food the 3rd time and put it down in front of me (without even asking the 3rd time), I became extremely rude by saying something like "I feel SICK already from all the food everyone shoves down my throat!" (hoping that THAT would be clear enough for them to hear and believe). But all I accomplished was hurting the hosts, making the environment uncomfortable for everyone, and seldom to be invited there again.
I later learnt, that in THEIR culture, it would have been rude to answer the 1st time that you have not yet eaten (even if you are extremely hungry), then depending on how well you know the hosts, you may or may not give an honest answer the 2nd time, but the hosts build in a delay before asking the 3rd time (or just bringing out food and putting it down in front of you, saying that you should eat), them assuming that you will definitely eat something after some time has passed, and it is their honour to make sure that guests never leave their home hungry. And you really don't have to eat it all. They will be perfectly happy if you just eat a little.

@ Zoe-7
Great stuff- would love the chance one day to visit the Bandung area 👍🏻

The world regardless which country, is simply black or white. Good or bad. Rich or poor. Negative or positive. It is just like a coin with 2 sides that makes it complete and perfect. It is basically what life is all about. Ups and downs and if you add a little emotion to it, you are either happy or sad. 20 years of living  in a country and not even a single good out of it? Or perhaps deep down you have lost hope and hence you chose to dwell on your past. A few bad moments will always be there when all you think about is the bad moments you had. In other words, you are living on your past. No?

Your past is an illusion. Created by your own mind. Doubts and worries are also illusions cause you allow your mind to think of the past or future. You can be a lot happier if you choose to live in the present moment. Not allowing your past affecting your happiness nor the need to think and be anxious of a future that does not even exist.

Lastly, if you think Indonesia is bad, then it is bad. On the contrary, if you choose to think that Indonesia can be good, at least there could be some hope eventually. All you need is a little faith my friend. Cheers.

My past is rather like a porn movie with large motorbikes and a lot of leather but my future is an undiscovered country and I'm hoping for the riches Columbus or Drake were looking for as they first took to the seas (Riches aren't always gold, but often a fun life).
My positive attitude has been a great friend here but that's something many expats seem to lack.
So many wander around hoping to find a McD or KFC just to get that little taste of home - way wrong as your home is wherever you lay your hat.
I can see why short term expats don't bother as they commonly bugger off after a year , wandering off to whatever country they fancy next, but long term expats have to change to suit, or at least accept the values and traditions of their new place.
I'm lucky because I love to try out new stuff and learn as much as I can about as much as I can so, coupled with a wide open mind, I had no problem at all fitting in to my new home.
10 years in, love the place, love the people, love the food, hate the traffic - I think I'm doing well.

That's what I call "hitting the nail on the head" Fred!

Well said, amigo!   

I've only been living and working in Indonesia permanently for 3 years but worked on/ off the previous 2 and a stint of about 2 months around 10 years ago, firstly corruption (in my opinion only) has improved a lot but still goes on like in any country it always will as some people are just greedy and want more.
I haven't really made any mistakes of note to be honest as I have a good network of expat and local friends who genuinely look out for one another, I'm not a overly trusting person but I do give the benifit of the doubt within reason
I think my only mistake is not learning bahasa quickly enough but that's just me and foreign languages (got kicked out of French at school because I was useless)
I see visiting people from Asian and western countries including Australia etc with very little regard to politeness (personal pet hate of mine) and they've caused a problem for themselves immediately not just with locals but other expats.
If moving here and you need assistance try and source a reliable agent for paperwork, we use one for kids passports, birth certificates and so on, he's very very good and to be brutally honest I couldn't care less if he is over charging me (I'm told he hasn't) as he's quick and efficient.
Immigration......
They was an open door policy with the big boss in batam sometime this year I can only speak for uk passport holders but they is nothing stopping you being in batam/ Indonesia as long as you leave on or before day 30 (visit Visa)  day 1 is day of arrival and catches a few people out.
One thing is always keep calm, polite, smile and be respectful it will help immensely from purchasing bread to sorting documents

And to add to immigration on my previous post, no problem as long as what your doing is legal

I have recently been to immigration in one part of the city for photos and fingerprints. Took 2 trips (1st was cancelled due to a computer issue) and the second 15 minutes, no fuss no worries. The process to get to that point was fuss and worry but it's done for now so I can just get on with things.

I am not a fan of paperwork and dealing with officials here, there or anywhere so I just do what I need to do without complaining or shouting about it.

The 3 posts above are 100%, most problems for expats these days being caused by expats. The 30 day thing catches a few people out but, since immigration cleaned up, there's no serious issue above a maybe one day fine but no other effects.
The only expats I've seen with problems at immigration were all doing something wrong, the biggest error being shouting and getting angry at officials.
As with Luke, I hate paperwork but it has to be done so smile sweetly and tell them you'll get what they want when they ask for the millionth piece of paper they didn't ask for before.
That applies to all departments from your local Pak RT right up to the top of the tree.
One little trick - Everyone gives the departments standard photocopies but I suggest scanning your documents and proving officials with full colour prints.
You don't have to be it shows you've taken a little care to get everything right and that goes a long way in the event of any future problem.

Another mistake is the 60 day business Visa, I've seen all to often this go very wrong by people who are misinformed (if still available)

Hello all. I am new here and I will share briefly about my stay here in Jogjakarta Indonesia. My advice as an expat from America who  married his Indonesian wife here in Jogja...

1. Be careful at the airport (Jakarta, I'm sure Bali is the same), Do not pay the taxi before they take you to the destination. I was charged 100,000 rupiah to go to my destination before I left and another 50,000 when I got to the destination. My girl was upset about this too. In short, To be honest, don't use the taxi's here. It's way cheaper to use go jek or Grab. They are by far the best, and cheapest forms of transportation here and are always brand new cars with lots of space.

2. I came on a cultural visa (60 days). I got married on a cultural visa. I applied a few days to late for my kitas (After I was legally married) and had to extend my cultural visa then apply for my kitas. My wife sponsored my kita's and it is a non working visa. Long story short, Do not wear shorts to imigrasi. You will be asked to leave. Wear jeans at a minimum. It's better if you wear khakis or nice clothes. Keep in mind you will have to go back to the immigration office a lot. Do not make enemies here. Be polite and diligent, the more they see you and as long as you are polite they will do everything they can to help you. Make them upset or piss them off and expect not to get a visa as they will add impossible requirements for you. I went to immigration over 10 times within a month which is quite far from where I live in Sleman area, but I had to apply for an extension and the kitas. Be patient, Indonesians are retardedly slow at almost everything. No offense it's just the honest truth that even my wife admits. They have a laid back environment so get used to it.

3. If getting married here make sure to bring all your documents and expect long waits at the marriage office depending on your city. I had a Muslim wedding and had to convert even though I have no Muslim belief. I am still a Catholic at heart and will reconvert back when I go home to America. Even though they are primarily muslim here, they are generally really kind people here. I have yet to meet and rude ones except some scammers which I will go into next.

4. In Malioboro street in Jogjakarta. BEWARE OF THE FAKE PAINTERS (sorry for the caps I just want this to be seen). If you are approached by a local and the first thing that comes out of their mouth is "Hello, where are you from?" Ignore them and walk away. They will ask you to come to a batik art gallery and that it's the last day so you need to come now. They will insist it is free etc. DO NOT FOLLOW THEM. These guys are known by locals and have been reported on multiple sites. They will extort you by charging you extremely high prices for paintings that are either fake or way overpriced. Walk away and say you are busy, or just ignore them. I literally can not stand these mofo's they tried to scam me twice and my first visit i almost fell for it thank God for my wife she saved me and I am not the stupid type. They do not teach at a University like claimed by the head guy (he said He taught at the University my wife went to school and graduated from, She knew he did not, that's when we left). Basically Ignore these guys do not even speak to them. They seem nice and friendly but are the complete opposite if you do not buy a painting. Do not go to any shady place that is out of view of other tourists or locals, that should be in traveling 101 but especially here. Play it safe.

5. Try to learn some of the language of course. I am super lazy and have been here for five months and still can speak only a little. I feel bad about this and am working on learning more but it will do you justice if you learn the language if considering moving here. It's easy I'm just lazy.

6. Obviously stay away from any drugs. A small amount = death penalty here.

7. Expect everything will take forever to get done here. Like previously mentioned, Indonesians are lazy and slow workers especially government. I learned this the hard way and still get upset about it but it is what it is.

8. 9 out of 10 times Indonesians are always late. If you set an appointment always set it an hour before you want to meet. If you say meet me at five and they say they can meet you at six, don't show up until seven. You will wait because they have no courtesy about being on time, this is fact. It is third world, you would think people would be on time especially when it comes to business but it is the opposite Maybe this is why it is third world? They are lazy? IDK.

That may seem like a lot of negative mixed with positive. So I will end on a good note... I have had a great time here seeing the city, mainly jogja, but some of jakarta as well. I can not find work here because I do not have a bachelors degree, so keep that in mind. No bachelors degree means no job. All in all most Indonesians are very friendly and great people. I have yet to see any fights, guns, violence or even road rage lol. They are good people. I still recommend finding a better place to live and raise a family because quality of life here is well below standard back home in America at least. I'm waiting on my spouse visa to approve before I go back home. All in all, I think its a great country to visit and there are lots of great things to see and do for very cheap if you do not get ripped off. However, I do not necessarily promote moving here. That's my two cents, I hope it helps someone out there. By the way I am 26 years old haha.

^
Yes

Hi I'm planning to come over the Indonesia later this year from the UK. Thank you for your advise.
Richard.

After 3 months here, so far so good. People here are generally friendly even strangers.

I guess when one is in a foreign country you should fit in not the other way round. Otherwise why come here in the first place.



Hey Fred , whats wrong with this? 

Difficult to do anything or go anywhere weekdays when you are working daily. Going to central from kelapa gading is a nightmare after work.

One very common error is living in a 'bule bubble; that being an expat life that consists of a driver taking you to the office, hanging around in posh shopping malls and getting drunk in western bars.

A year in Indonesia and they see nothing and learn nothing - what a waste of time.

^
The 'bule bubble' is, IMHO, one of the greatest mistakes expats make.
So many people come here but miss everything because they hide away from the real country and close their eyes to everything Indonesia has to offer.
Of course work is the reason most are here but I have never heard of a contract that excludes employees from enjoying the country they're living in.
Hanging in expat bars, boozing and consorting with gold diggers and prostitutes can be done back in your home country, but maybe the girls are cheaper to buy here.
Not for me - I also have a lot of work (Crazy at the moment), but I've made a point of getting out there and learning about Indonesia.

Another mistake, at least as far as Jakarta is concerned, is not living as close as possible to your office. The traffic is terrible so you can waste hours in jams, more so at the moment in some areas because of the MRT.

Contract does not exclude employees from enjoying the country they're living in. However getting the time to do that everyday does. Only possible go out during the weekends.

What does hanging out in bars and/or consorting with prostitutes have to do with each other? You do not need bars to have prostitutes and that's the same anywhere in the world.

Traffic is terrible at Kelapa Gading too , due to the LRT and Busway constructions. It will be for some time as Phase 2 of the LRT is coming this year.

tiganasfx wrote:

What does hanging out in bars and/or consorting with prostitutes have to do with each other?

Have been been to Jakarta?

The prostitution game in Jakarta is in dodgy hotels, massage parlours, karaoke joints and the bars.

To me the “Bule Bubble” plays a part of my life here in Indonesia if I like it or not,  my Indonesian wife has several none Indonesian close friends whom she socialises with as she does with her Indonesian friends and family, some local children are friends and attend school with expat children so Bule and Indonesian get togethers are frequent
Contract wise your right it doesn't exclude enjoyment of Indonesia, but most expats contacts (in my industry in this location) I know of are usually 6am -6pm with just a Sunday off to recharge, get hammered or whatever they choose
If behind schedule 7 days a week until further notice
Prostitution and gold diggers are in practically every country and culture, Indonesia is no exception and down to individual choice and is as wide spread as the sunshine's on this land you can get propositioned from a hypermart or indomart not just a bar nor mall !
When possible I enjoy meeting with expats in a bar with the football from back home on having a good banter (I did last night Liverpool game) me personally I think it's important to integrate with both (obviously) local but to also have that connection with expats if you can (how you do or don't spend that time is choice) I think a lot depends on your location, your job and individual circumstances

Yup I stay in Jakarta now.

Hanging out in bars does not mean patronizing the prostitution joints.

Gwmeath, so true. That's what I meant.

I am alone here so nothing much to do after work.

Which bar do you usually hang out? Liverpool supporter too 

Haha good man, I'm a few miles from you I'm in Batam about 18km from Singapore 🍺🍺

Aaargh Batam