What should I do for my marriage problem?

Strangely(?)   There are upsides to this.

First, the Truth.  You already know it.   You are being
cheated out of the most important thing in any relation:
the reciprocation that we expect in our commitment.

Second, the true power in any relation lies (real lies!)
with the one who cares the least.

Third, you already know it is a lost cause.  The longer
it drags on, the worse for you.   Read Human History.

Acknowledge this and move on with YOUR life, and
(again, as strange as it may seem?) you will win the
respect you are being denied.   Hers & Yours.

Time takes care of the rest.   When you finally realise
how much better off you will be without the anchor
around your neck. 

      NOT strangely, this is what happens.

      Walk away.  You are now free

      ..to make your own choices...   

        Wisdom works.   

        No Pain, no Gain.

Good move to seek the advice of others

Yours is not a casual relationship, it is a marriage, something that VN women hold very dear and seek to protect at all costs

I feel that your lady is wrong to be so dismissive as you describe, especially if this is happening over what you describe as trivial matters. It almost appears that she is looking for any excuse to go back to Mother.

If I was in your shoes I would be trying to get to find the root cause of her alienation and be prepared for the worst outcome

Dear BinhDuongLee -
1st thing - Lock down and hide anything relating to money (ie. salary receipts, bank accounts balances, pension plans, stock holding, title deeds, inheritances, wills, whatever). Whilst now you both may be at an 'emotional' stage, it will eventually progress/digress to a financial stage. SHE will 'follow the money' so you need to be ready - and the answer is "I don't have any, sorry Dear!!!".

2nd thing - Exit any/all money out of Vietnam that you can afford to live without. A new bank account in Singapore, HK, or your native Korea that is accessible to you here in VN would be best - and only you know its details.

3rd thing - After you have secured #1 and #2, look at the positive side as Bazza139 writes.
There is life after a bust-up, a separation or a divorce, believe it or not, and sometimes life is even better, because you will be wiser, more experienced, yes a little hurt at times (Pasteur Street can take care of that!), and lots of weird emotions involved.

As much as possible, exit out as peacefully and gently as both parties can.

Despite whatever talk arises about 'emotion' & 'love' & 'forever together', it will almost always boil down to 'money' as a central conversation. (Believe me, her Mom is probably already conjuring up an exit plan that might leave you high-and-dry. Don't let that happen!).

Also read - The Art Of War.

Remember "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" ...

It may also be that she is hiding something, or (probably) someone - like a new boy-friend, old acquaintance, returning Viet from her younger days, Mom's 'choice of an ideal husband'. etc.
Don't underestimate the secrets held by a woman ... Inquire discreetly on your own if you can, and don't let your defenses down. The hawks will circle you otherwise.

Having said that, however, you may also invite her to a (romantic talk-it-out) weekend to a resort somewhere. Say, "I am off to xxxx this weekend, and I would be happy if you join me, and your Mom isn't invited". If she doesn't come, you will have a clear picture of what her position is. If she does go with you, then that will give you both the opportunity to evaluate a solution.

I would recommend against seeking the help of another Vietnamese lady to moderate your situation. Your wife will view it as 'female intervention' (ie. "now you are flirting with our counsellor, aren't you?").

If anything, involve a non-partisan clergyman (if you can find one) and even with both a Vietnamese and/or a Korean clergyman, if that helps. Remember, whatever action you take, she will probably twist it and view it with a (hidden) agenda.

The sun still rises in the mornings, and rise with it, and call it "another great day ahead".
Progress every day towards Happiness ...

Dear Bazza139, Thanks for your advice.

Yes, I may know what you are talking about.

But all I can think about it is like- "I didn't do enough to solve the problem", "she didn't really mean it", "we can solve problem", "I made mistakes, I can do better in the future"

that kind of things.

so many regrets, so many memories of her. happy and regretful memories..

All I can do now is just waiting her to be calm down and wishing to have one more chance..

Dear Mickeymac

Small matter for me, but it could have been a big matter for my wife, I guess. It must have been.
the root cause would be that I may a lesser man than she thought.  she may don't have tolerance for that.  I just guess.
Thanks for your advice. I appreciate it.

Dear BuddyM

Thanks for your realistic side of advice.
I should take care of that side if I want to survive on worst case scenario.
I don't have any talkable property in Vietnam. I have my main saving in Korea.

I don't know if there  will be any good side of this. I experienced the highest of my life with her, and without her, I can only think about down fall. I don't know, that is all what I can think about right now.

she could have a secret affair, maybe. but I won't presume until she talk about it by herself. It is too painful even imagine about it. I don't think she is that kind of person, if another.

Thanks...

listening to all of the advises, my head is a bit lighter I guess.

Fortunate people know about real pain.

It gives the gift of Appreciation.

So not if, but when you pull the white-hot knife
from your chest - and throw it away - You recover.

Your thoughts are hurting you.  But they are rational
and you are not hiding in denial, as so many do.

Reading between (your) lines, I doubt an affair.
More likely you provided the security & safety many
girls need to realise their full potential.   All too often?
( far too often!! ) the mere male becomes redundant.

There can be no guilt in trying too hard.

We all want to be better people   

If you dont mind that im younger than you,  maybe have less experiences than you, i would like to write to you somethings...

You wont never get good advices from anyone, simply cos they dont know your situation, you wont never explain to anybody enough for them to tell you what to do appropriately.  you could share it with your friends, your relatives... but not to seek for advices, just for sharing your feelings, your thinking, your stresses, and maybe on the way, you could have some "good idea" to "solve your problems".
i know you are in hard time, it hurts your emotions and it harm your thinking. from my experiences, if you're sad, be sad, you are hurted, cry, you miss her, miss her, nothing wrong with your truly feelings and emotions. just one time clearly tell her how important she mean to you and you want to talk with her about what's going on with your marriage, and also dont forget to give her some times, you need figure out your real problem before you find the solutions. it takes time, be conscious, be patient, be smart and made a good decision, even for little things.
Everything is come from you, every choice, decision is yours. Please dont let your sadness, your lost feelings lead you to do stupid things with the women that mean alot to you.
And 1 more things i wanna told you, that you have to believe in yourself, know your values, appreciate yourself, dont compare you with anybody (as you say you are not up to her standard on some aspect). thats you, how can other people appreciate you if you even dont believe in yourself? you may have shortcomings, as any others human beings, but the things is you know it, you improve yourself, you put effort to try to be better, thats awesome! Be positive and you will find your way!

Whatever happens, happens for the best!

I hope to hear back from you with good news.

Olivia

Dear Bazza139

Sadly, I maybe am redundant to her now.
she is very ambitious, and achieved many things.

We all want to be better people, yes.

she may consider me as an obstacle for her being better person?

I don't know, maybe.

that put me into another thinking..

If marriage is hell and you can't do anything to improve or revitalize it, the best solution is getting out of that as fast as possible. However, make sure that you have tried your best to save it even a small help so that you won't be regretted or sorry for what happened.

Dear Olivia Le

Many thanks for you insight. It means a lot to me.
your insight have let me gather some courage left in me.

I may wait.

I may wait until she is ready to talk with me again.

I just hope I have enough strength to wait until that time.
enough courage not to do anything that will worsen situation.
I hope if there is a god or something, give me power to stay strong.

It really help to listen to many people's insights.

honestly I was thinking leaving this world for some oblivious land, if you know what I mean.

I may run this evening, something I didn't do alone for a while.

Your own strength and security is in your open mind.

   You will never lose that

She's a control freak. You should take the initiative, as suggested above: "invite her to a (romantic talk-it-out) weekend to a resort somewhere. Say, "I am off to xxxx this weekend, and I would be happy if you join me, and your Mom isn't invited". If she doesn't come, you will have a clear picture of what her position is. If she does go with you, then that will give you both the opportunity to evaluate a solution."

Take the initiative, tell her want you want from your marriage together. If it doesn't fit with her ideas, fine, agree to a divorce and see if she doesn't suddenly change her mind.

I speak from experience with an ex-wife who was not Vietnamese. I was in a similar position to you and found it completely liberating to agree to a divorce.

Mr Lee from Binhduong.
Hi and welcome to the forum.

DON'T go running anywhere tonight for some oblivious land.  OK?..
Have you got that.?

Are you a good person, do you have your own self respect and live a good life.?      If so, don't go doing anything silly.

TOMORROW is the first day of the rest of your life.  Make sure your here to see it.   

A lot of us expat blokes are serial divorcees, and I can assure you that given a little bit of time you'll get over it and move on.   Your certainly not alone.  I've been to over 10  multi cultural weddings here in Vietnam and they've all "tanked".

Maybe a change of scenery away from Binh Doung and a few wild nights in Saigon could be good for you. 😀

Your self preservation is what's important Ok.
If you get to the stage where ya thinking of doing something silly.....get ya self up here to Yogi's neck of the woods and he'll get things sorted out for ya.

Hang in there mate.

Your wife sounds similar to mines and probably most VIetnamese. They don't say what they mean and they say what they don't mean but it's up to you to be the mind reader. Yeah it's f'ed up.

Early in my marriage I got into lots of fights with my wife and she just throws it out there so casually. There's no emotion behind it.

"let's divorce." "we're not compatible."

She's a control freak and she's testing your loyalty to her and the future of your family. Remember what I said earlier she says what she don't mean.

Just be a wussy and apologize. Tell her how it's all your fault, you love her, and start making out and pop some babies. That should save your marriage.

If you can't do that than just don't try to save this failed marriage. We Westerners are too easy giving up on marriages. Marriage is not meant to be easy. You have to put effort into it for it to work. If you can't do that there's always more fishes to pick from.

Just hang in there to weather this storm.  Go to the gym running and use your frustration to lift weight.  Keep yourself busy and don't stay at home by yourself - the devil will play tricks on you.  Do you really love her?  Or do you love things used to be?  There is no one on this earth that we MUST have.

The sun will shine again tomorrow.  That I can promise you!

damn Yoda great advice I do hit the gym everyday.

Love in Vietnam is different. It's not head over heal love. It's more loyalty type love. These Vietnamese women won't one day say hubby I feel the flame in our relationship has been put out, not enjoying the sex and we don't see eye to eye anymore let's get a divorce.

You can get drunk everyday, swear and curse your wife, gamble and lounge around the house being an ornament and your wife won't leave you as long you're providing for the family but even then after having kids they still probably won't leave you.

i must confess that reading the posts in response to Binhduong Lee's request for help have also helped me to understand VN ladies. I do recognise some of the VN woman traits mentioned wrt Foreign men
Yes they are prone to outbursts that dont really reflect what the heart feels
Yes they are very loyal if they perceive you to be a man with a good heart
And Yes, it all comes down to money, that you can provide for them and care for them
Maybe the best thing to do in the short term is to send her a link to this discussion

"Maybe the best thing to do in the short term is to send her a link to this discussion"

Best idea I've seen here for a while.

Nothing like a reality check to assess validity

A.K.A.  the wake-up call...       

uhm don't send her the link. She's going to get paranoid and think you're cheating on her by communicating on a forum with strangers. And if she hasn't already probably reading through all your e-mails and digging into the past of all your facebook friend's list.

Just shower her with words of love everyday and make positive comments about her appearances. Low self-esteem Vietnamese women eat these up that their male Vietnamese fail to provide because of their super ego.

Secure all your money 100%.

Tell her to pack her shit and bye-bye.

Replace with much younger,slimmer, prettier model.

Never fails.

Mikeymac....
"And yes , it all comes down to money". 

Hand that man a cigar.   😆

And as Khanh said, if the man behaves like  a total asshole, but still pays the bills she'll hang in there.   It's also quite common around here to see age differentials of 40 years between old white men and Vietnamese women.

They obviously don't give a shit who they shack up with so long as there's some cash in the deal.  It's the old " if I buy you something will you be my friend" creepy kind of thing.    But then again , this is the snake pit of destinations to come to if your looking for a compatible and trusting partner in life .

We see this type of thing every day on these forums and blokes still keep throwing the dice in the hope they'll find a "good one".

We males have some peculiar priorities.   You'll get dumb ass losers back home avoid going to a backstreet car yard for a car because they heard it had sold a few dud cars.  The same guys will take their old car to a good mechanic because of the "reputation".   

Yet they come here knowing (you'd hope) that SE Asia has a shocking reputation for men getting stitched up and ripped off, and then Marry a local girl, buy her a house, bank roll businesses for her family and so on.
WTF?....  Some of these blokes have spent everything here.

They apply more pride and common sense to a used car than their total livelihood here.   I know several old blokes here that have lost well over $500,000 an one guy a $million +.   Crazy stuff.

So there ya go Binhdoung guy.....don't end up like that.   Your only 34 years old, your whole life ahead of you.    Whatever you do, don't make yourself destitute for someone that doesn't appreciate you for who you are ....not what you can provide.

More to life than being someone's meal ticket.

Dear all,


last Saturday, I asked her mom if I can join lunch in her house on Sunday,
Her mother told me it is good, see you at 11am then,

then at that night I received my wife's message that would I rather have lunch with just 2 of us?
so,
I had a lunch with my wife yesterday (Sunday).
She seems not upset. We had a good time with multiple laugh.
I thought we finally came to be ready to talk.

But in the end, she still express me her resolution towards divorce.
she said there is no margin for talk anymore.

it hit me even harder than before,

what should I do?

If there is any chance to change her mind, it could be my reason to bear all the pain and it still will have meaning for me.

But, if not. I don't know what to do.
my colleague says my face is green and looks sick, I am really sick. mind and body all. wow man, it is so hard.

When a woman made up her mind it's pretty much it unfortunately.  She has probably given some thoughts to this issue for many months already.  It's us men who are either too dumb to read between the lines or they are too good to fake it.

How funny that the one who is part of the issue is always the last one to know.  Every relative, friend, co-worker, and even barista knew about it before you did.  Move on BinhDuongLee.  It's not going to be easy.  Some of us will be here to guide you.  You are not alone.

Now if you want to do something stupid please do me one favor.  Spend a few hours in local hospital and you will see reasons for living.  Many people there would be willing to exchange a limb to be in your situation.  Parent wanting to see kids grown up but may not have a chance.  Kids wanting to be there to look after parents in their old ages but couldn't.  So @Lee, wake up!!!!

No kids were produced move on. I think these multiple 'small fights' were only small to you but to her it was big.

She's kicked you out of the house and living separately. I don't think she gains anything financially for getting a divorce so that says a lot how much she wants to move on with her life without you.

Don't feel depressed. Learn what went wrong in the relationship and find another girl. Get her pregnant asap.

BinhDuongLee,
I'm woman, I'm Vietnamese so I hope my advice to you could be relevant somehow. I'm saying all these with the view of a woman (Vietnamese - and could have slight culture/behaviour different to other women coming from other countries), and of a woman who thinks what her husband should do to earn her respect and love. That's the important thing. The more woman respects you, the more her love has saved for you. Woman could not love a man without having/having less respect for her man. I guess it goes true for both genders, but more true to woman.

Firstly, I would like to point out the fact that marriage is not a mere romantic relationship that could be ended anytime that one wants it. Please ignore any advices here to tell you to step out of your marriage easily just because of what your wife has hurt you. They aren't you, they could not have the same feeling as you have for her, they could not understand besides the bad sides it seems your wife has (demanding divorce every time you both have small fights) that your wife also has good sides that have made you love her so much. However, you should not be so weak in a relationship since that won't earn you anything. You must be stronger to take care of the situations like this.

Secondly: Marriage needs patience, forgiveness, open communications (being honest and straightforward to one another - with gentle care) and be courage. You need to wait for you wife to cool down and then asking to have a full conversations with her regarding to what have happened between you both. Please don't ever try to drag her into such a conversation when she's still not stable in her emotions, or begging her to come back to you, or to cry in front of her. Believe me, that makes things worse . Tell her that you understand her, and that you'll wait for her to come back home and that you both will have a real conversation to talk about things, and you would not disturb her during this time until she's ready. The more you beg her, and that you show your weak side to her; the more she takes advantages of that and behave like a princess and you'll hurt more. Stop treating her in the wrong way, only treat her with respect and with your DIGNITY and INTEGRITY.
She would feel: Hurt because she thinks you dont love her anymore (if she does love you - only her behaviour is wrong asking you for a divorce when she's mad with you). In this case, she would blame you for not paying a good attention to her; for ignoring her,...This could be the good sign that she does love you just her reason for divorce is she has been spoiled by your love .

Or she would feel nothing because she does not really love you and what she asked for a divorce is her true meaning.
You'll find out soon.

Lastly, accept the fact if she would want to get a divorce because she does not love you anymore. Just simply accept and try to move on. It's difficult but nothing you could do after you have tried so hard to show her your love. Make she know that you are brave and man enough to accept the fact. Unless you respect yourself enough, there would be nobody respects you more than you do yourself. The same for love. Imagine if you had a girlfriend and when you asked for a breakup and she just kept on begging you to come back then what you would think? Would you feel uncomfortable? Same for your wife case, especially if a man does that. Never begging for love. Only try to show her your love as much as possible, taking care of her,respect her and if she does not recognize those then you could let her go in peace (also peace for you).

So sorry that I didnt read your last post to know the situation before sending my previous post. What I could say is asking her to have a full conversation with her, telling her that you will respect her decision but you have a right to understand the reason behind. Have a straight talk between 2 adults, between husband and wife. Asking her in the conversation that if there is anything you both could try before ending the marriage. If she says no, I'm so sorry that you could not do much to save your marriage; only try to accept that and try to move on. I know woman often seems to be weak, but once she makes up her mind there's nothing man could do... Only man is left behind with so much hurt... I'm so sorry for that... But believe me, that you shall get over this no matter what and that you could find happiness in the end with someone loving you more. There is always another chance in your life.
From my own experiences with men, my male friends' experiences....
I hope you could take time off work to travel somewhere to ease your mind, it's a great medicine for you...
Anna.

I would like to say that you cannot control what someone else says, does and thinks. So whatever position she takes you may not be able to change her viewpoint.

All you can do is present you case to her to continue and try to find out the reason for her continually saying you should split up. It does sound like you need to get a resolution to this question of hers. Only you can decide how to move forward with this.

Many a person has been in similar situations and many have gone on to bigger and better things. It is easy for others to say but there are more fish in the sea. Don't get yourself down as marriage is a very complex union.

It's obviously that she doesnt want/love you at all (you might know it well but do not want to believe in the fact) so what's the point to stay together???
I believe in "real love" but come on be a man and strong enough to stand up to let this woman go. You won't die for her. Do not let her take advantage from you and tell you what to do for your life/relationship!!!

You have been given a lot of good advise.  YOU know your marriage is doomed, do not continue to torture yourself.  Handle your finances, set yourself up for success, get this behind you as soon as she offers the D again.  Find you another lovely woman who knows how to appreciate a sensitive and devoted man.  The best way to get over a lost love is a new love. Life is too short to be treated with the harsh disrespect she has put you through.

You are weakening yourself and your marriage each time you crawl back.  Get up, clean up your mind and get on with living.  There are millions of women here who look good and will treat a true, loving provider as such

Lee,

Having learned from experience, the one thing that has always worked for me is using the "ignore tactic."  Sure, it might be difficult, but women hate to be ignored.  Try to pretend like none of this bothers you, and the next time she says she thinks you both should divorce, say "okay, let's go start the paperwork."  I'm not trying to be cold-hearted here, but right now, she's playing you.  Regardless of how she reacts, you win.  If she really loves you, ignoring her is going to drive her crazy.  If she doesn't, then you're better off without her.  But, my friend, it's up to you.  If you want to play the part of the martyr, it's on you.

I think yours is the best and most realistic advise.. if he cowers, collapses emotionally, especially if he starts crying when They talk, she will lose any respect she had for him.. his best and only chance is to show her he is a strong, stable man who can move on without her if he has to.. let her see that she is losing something valuable by the breakup also...

And Subtly let her know you can be attracted to other women... since you will have nothing left to lose with her... if it has no effect on her, you know the relationship cannot be saved and then you really should start getting your mind on finding another woman...

Best advice ever. Run. Don't walk. She's not a quality person.

I've been in the same situation as yours a few years ago.  Most of the advice here have been right on.  When the woman has made up her mind, that's it.  I tried to patch things up with my ex-wife by doing everything possible.  I thought I convinced her to change a few times but it just prolonged the process.  We eventually divorced.  At the time, I was a total wreck but now that I think back on it, it was the best thing that has ever happened to me.  From reading your posts, the writing is on the wall.  Time to move on.

Tell your wife to proceed with the divorce. Be a man. If she loves you things will work out, if she doesn't love you... why continue a sick and unhappy relationship?

Your wife has had a couple of years learning about you. She wants OUT!

RE: #37
QUOTE
We eventually divorced .....  it was the best thing that has ever happened to me.
UNQUOTE

Right on !!