What are the reasons someone would lose their Hungarian citizenship?

Don't quote me but my Hungarian husband once said one can never lose their HU citizenship unless they ask to have it done.
Hungary allows for dual citizenship.
We know several people who left HU in the 70's and have returned to HU as full citizens, never lost it even though they left for decades.
I am not sure about people who left in 56 but think even they are good to go.

We know at least 4 HU citizens who lived outside of HU for decades and then were deported from the US for criminal behavior.
HU had no choice but to take them back.

devchia wrote:

I understand that if he had lost his citizenship

I think this all comes down to that old bugaboo: Trianon. Where your grandfather was born and when may then matter.

Else, no, a Hungarian by birth can not loose their citizenship (but a naturalized citizen can):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian … itizenship

Historically, it wasn't unusual to lose Hungarian citizenship: the 1879 Citizenship Act provided for automatic loss of citizenship in certain cases for those who remained outside Hungary for 10 years. As well, in the late 1930s Hungary amended its laws to revoke citizenship from those who became citizens of another country. And of course there were those who lost Hungarian citizenship under Trianon.

Further, under the 1879 law, minor children would lose their Hungarian citizenship if their father lost his citizenship, as would his wife. Indeed, a woman would lose her Hungarian citizenship if she married a non-Hungarian. ("Sec. 34. Marriage. The female loses her Hungarian citizenship who marries a man that is not a Hungarian citizen.")

No doubt there were other ways to lose citizenship.

So far as I know, provisions like these are no longer part of Hungarian law, though I don't know when they were rescinded. Nonetheless, they sometimes do affect those claiming citizenship on the basis of ancestry, so of course the consul will ask about your grandfather's circumstances. The key point is that Hungarian citizenship laws are not retroactive, so you have to look at the laws as they were in effect at various times during your grandfather's life.

zif wrote:

As well, in the late 1930s Hungary amended its laws to revoke citizenship from those who became citizens of another country. .

What's this law about? And how did affect people that left in 1956 and become American citizens?

devchia wrote:

zif wrote:

As well, in the late 1930s Hungary amended its laws to revoke citizenship from those who became citizens of another country. .

What's this law about? And how did affect people that left in 1956 and become American citizens?

This may help (from http://hungarianconsulate.com/hungariancitizenship/):

"Hungarian citizenship could be lost because of ten years of residence abroad. However this title of lost citizenship affects those citizens who left Hungary before September 1st of 1929."

Since your grandfather left in 1956, that singular issue (according to the above), when he left, is not relevant regarding his Hungarian citizenship.

However, also note, if this was your maternal or paternal grandfather, and when your parental line to your grandfather was born, may also matter if you can directly claim citizenship through your grandfather (see the above link for more details).

That's Act XIII of 1939. Apparently it was largely repealed at the end of World War II, but all the legal details allowing the government to use citizenship as a weapon weren't completely done away with till 1990. See this interesting article for details:

http://epa.oszk.hu/00400/00463/00003/4.htm

Remember that if you go the "confirmation" route, then your parent must also have been a Hungarian citizen, under applicable law when you were born.

This seems like a subject for a immigration expert.
So many small details and laws regarding birth dates and when a person left Hungary.
Also over the years boarders to countries also changed.
My grandmother for example was born in Austria/Hungary which later was a free country for the Rusin population which later was invaded by Nazi Germany then was divided between Poland and Ukraine.
No wonder when people would ask me what my nationality was, my mom said just tell them your French, much easier to explain.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

.... when people would ask me what my nationality was, my mom said just tell them you're French, much easier to explain.

Interesting.

Someone I know - Polish,  Russian speaking, but from the German area - says they are Swiss.  Just too difficult to explain to anyone and fed up telling people.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

This seems like a subject for a immigration expert.

That is, in theory, why one goes to a Hungarian consulate to process this request. Even if it takes multiple trips, to get more paperwork and documentation to prove one's case, it should be all worked out in time (in theory).

fluffy2560 wrote:

Someone I know - Polish,  Russian speaking, but from the German area - says they are Swiss.  Just too difficult to explain to anyone and fed up telling people.

That is really, really odd. If their passport says "Polish", why not just say "Polish"? Do they actually have any Swiss citizenship rights to claim such? Or are they just, maybe, embarrassed by current Polish state of affairs, like some Americans claiming they are "Canadians"?

Besides, "Swiss" is just a country, not an identity (i know, I lived there for many years).  Same goes for Canada, or USA, or even Hungary. Seriously, if one does not want to use their nationality, just get a DNA test of ancestry. To keep it simple, pick the largest percentage, and call yourself that.

My dad's side was actually Ruthenes, Rusyn, Lemko, a ethnic minority from the Carpathian mountains.
Now they are spread out into 3 countries, Poland/Ukraine and SK.
Visited with a few US cousins for the first time 3 years ago. Loved it, really a sweet little area with very friendly people.
Met a few close relations that still live there. Even met a HU cousin who is a doctor now in the UK with her HU husband who is also a doc in the UK.
Lots of smart educated people in the family, I was shocked actually, expected a bunch of mountain hillbillies with missing teeth!Not so.
No banjo's although a accordion was brought out with the homemade wadka!( Vodka)
If I could speak the language, I might even enjoy visiting there more often.
My mom was funny telling us to say we were French as children.
If not we always got ribbed by kids for being "Russian" or German or Mohawk. Being a Rusyn and part Mohawk is a very odd combo as it is. I will say though, I got myself a great set of high cheekbones outta the deal,not so bad then.

klsallee wrote:

....That is really, really odd. If their passport says "Polish", why not just say "Polish"? Do they actually have any Swiss citizenship rights to claim such? Or are they just, maybe, embarrassed by current Polish state of affairs, like some Americans claiming they are "Canadians"?

Besides, "Swiss" is just a country, not an identity (i know, I lived there for many years)....

No idea if they do really have Swiss citizenship - I agree it's not an identity.  There's a possibility of Swissness by marriage.  I never really asked the person in any detail.  I understood they were Polish for sure, with a passport, speaks Polish but also excellent Russian but not German. But I also know this person has British citizenship for sure.  I am not entirely sure how it all fitted together nor how this person escaped from Communist Poland.

There could be a sense of trying to be elitist as I know that person is intensely embarrassed by and actively against the semi-theocratic political system in Poland.

I guess it's a bit like me being hassled by people over Brexit - I didn't vote for it as I was not allowed (been out the UK too long).  I really do get asked "what about Brexit" and in the most ignorant way, 

I also get asked if Scotland will stay in the EU contrary to the "UK"  leaving.  Which is just a totally stupid and moronic question.   

Bit off topic but asked and answered.

That's odd, I have a friend in Vegas who is from Switzerland.
She married a US serviceman and moved to the US, divorced him since but has lived in the US for decades now.
She speaks German and French not sure but she may even know some Italian as well.
I see no reason to be embarrassed to come from anywhere, it is what it is.
My oldest friend has been married to a man from Iran for 44 years.
He refuses to speak Persian and pretends he is not from there.
He will not hire anyone from Iran either, he has a minning co.
My friend is Danish/German nearly 6 ' tall with blonde hair and green eyes, she speaks fluent Farsi while her husband acts like he doesn't know a word. Just odd, he even "Americanized" his name.
Hate to tell him, he ain't fooling anyone, no one really cares in the US all that much where someone was from as long as they do things the "American Way".
I for years now have been asked so many times when I am in the US where I am from? Weird, very weird.Suppose I do not do things the American Way.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

....Suppose I do not do things the American Way.

What's the American way?   How is "it" different to "another" way?

(p.s. moving this to Absolutely Anything Else)

Oh boy, here I go.
The old stereotypical American....
Go to a bar and watch American style football, drink Coors beer or Bud, get really loud, wear mismatched clothing, maybe a t-shirt with the name of your fave team written all over the front.
Wear a baseball cap backwards and did I say, get really loud?
Drive a American made truck although you might not ever need to use the truck bed for any real farming.
Call everyone , Dude even women.
Gosh when I think about it, I don't miss home all that much after all.
I swear when I worked in Vegas my fellow born and bred Americans would ask me what country I was from. I took it as a compliment!

In supermarket aisles you need to excuse yourself when passing in front of another customer. And then you have to have a little conversation with the check-out clerk.

And don't forget the knife-fork switch.

Yes the knife fork switch thing.
My sisters and I used to eat "European" style which drove our mom crazy.
My step-dad lived in Europe for a few years in the 60's when he was in the US Army. He didn't like us eating European style either.
I fooled them all, learned to eat with chop sticks! Always the rebel.

In the grocery store , it is true you must excuse yourself if you pass up another shopper in the US.
If you bang into their cart you had better say sorry or it might end in a parking lot fight.
I often tell my husband here in HU that some of the things that happen in the shops here would end badly in the US.

zif wrote:

And don't forget the knife-fork switch.

Which, it seems, may be actually originally European in Origin:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/cult … ching.html

Personally, I do not care which hand one uses with the fork to the mouth.

But stuffing food in with the fork tines down is, to me, uncouth. And I am now (wonderfully) too old  to change my opinion on that, or care if anyone disagrees with me. 

I wouldnt be able to say, I have never had Hungarian citizenship nor any of my family. I only have permission temporarily to live in Hungary (residence permit) cos i bought a propery in Buda and my husband is a european.

klsallee wrote:

.....

But stuffing food in with the fork tines down is, to me, uncouth. And I am now (wonderfully) too old  to change my opinion on that, or care if anyone disagrees with me. 

Strange, in the UK, it would be the opposite as the fork would then be like using a shovel.  Our guide in the UK is The Queen. If it's correct for her, it's correct for the rest of us.

A general gripe - the worst thing in movies is people speaking with their mouths full and masticating excessively.  I notice these days, they cut between shots to avoid showing them eating, inserting food into their mouths.  One can even see sometimes they mess up the continuity - they appear to eat but  the food never goes down, varies in sizes or the drink levels go up and down.

There are some hungarian workmen  who eat slabs of white bread,  Goose fat and raw garlic for lunch.  I can't handle it and I even have to leave the room.  But I would not be rude enough to mention it. So I don't have to watch the chomping.

anns wrote:

There are some hungarian workmen  who eat slabs of white bread,  Goose fat and raw garlic for lunch.  I can't handle it and I even have to leave the room.  But I would not be rude enough to mention it. So I don't have to watch the chomping.

Yes, years ago, I was in a HU government office and some people were sitting there having a picnic.  One of them was chomping on a raw onion like it was an apple. They also had slabs of bread and fat and it was all wrapped up in newspaper.   I also had cause to visit someone at a desk and her colleague was shelling peas which she kept in a large bag in her desk drawer.   Obviously rather busy in that particular office.

I suppose a better question would be, "How can one become a HU citizen" I personally find no issue with eating goose grease with garlic and raw onions once in awhile but only if followed by some beer or a shot of Bison Grass Vodka from Poland.
If that would make me a HU citizen I would of been one years ago.
You're missing out if you have never been to a campfire in HU with a slice of bread a piece of greasy pork on a stick and some wine shared with friends.
Of course every culture has foods and habits that are unique to itself.
Some are good and some not so good.
I grew up as a toddler who would jump off her tricycle whenever my Slavic/ Rusin father would fix up one of these snacks that I loved to share with him as a 3/4 year old up until now even.
I would run in screaming, jump on his lap and gobble up our pickled herring in onions with rye bread followed up by my allowed 2 to 3 Oz. of beer! Pickled pigs feet with onions and my beer or smoked herring with fresh green onions and of course my beer ration.
My father always claimed those snacks would put hair on my chest, lucky for me he was wrong about that!!
Guess in our house watercress finger foods just wouldn't have cut it.

Bread, fat and onions are also cheap. Many people here were not, and still are not, making western salaries. Then, and in some cases even today, diet might be a fiscal necessity, rather than always a choice. Just something to consider.

But of course, this all has nothing to do with loosing Hungarian citizenship.....

Could be like eating that UK stuff in a jar, what is it, marmelade?
What exactly is that anyways?

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Could be like eating that UK stuff in a jar, what is it, marmelade?
What exactly is that anyways?

Could be marmalade.  That's sweet.  That's ok for some.

On the other hand, you could be talking about the savoury spread, Marmite, usually in an iconic jar. See here: Marmite.  Let's not ever mention Vegemite.

Raw Onion and Goose Fat vs Marmite, nah.

Let's be clear, Marmite was delivered to us earthlings from a higher power as gift.  It's great stuff - beloved by many babies and adults.  It's so embedded now in our culture in the UK - people even refer to our politicians as  "Marmite politicians" which means you either love them or hate them. 

I seriously think British citizenship tests could be based on if you like Marmite - more points for that.   Not sure what the equivalent would be in HU - goulash paste?

Yes I love Marmite and my home made old English marmalade .  They sell marmite here in the bigger tescos thank goodness.  We need a new thread for all this chit chat about foods we love and hate.

Marmite sounds like the "stuff" I was referring to.
I know in Hawaii one must eat Poi to be a real Local Moco, funny my Hungarian husband can eat poi with the best of them but me, no way.
Almost as "nasty" as trying to eat either gefilte fish or lute fish, a real acquired taste, not for the meek.

anns wrote:

We need a new thread for all this chit chat about foods we love and hate.

Agreed. Moved to: https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 13#3566676

anns wrote:

Yes I love Marmite and my home made old English marmalade .  They sell marmite here in the bigger tescos thank goodness.  We need a new thread for all this chit chat about foods we love and hate.

Maybe transfer to Absolutely Anything Else?

fluffy2560 wrote:

klsallee wrote:

.....

But stuffing food in with the fork tines down is, to me, uncouth. And I am now (wonderfully) too old  to change my opinion on that, or care if anyone disagrees with me. 

Strange, in the UK, it would be the opposite as the fork would then be like using a shovel. .

I do use the shovel method but only because it seems logical, especially when eating peas! I don't give a damn about things like etiquette anyway. Perhaps I am turning into an American as I often make meals with diced meat and don't bother having a knife when I eat it.  I do tend to use a knife and fork when eating pizza though, as I prefer it to having greasy fingers. I'm no good at cooking pizza though so I don't eat it much. I always get it rock hard round the edge and raw in the middle.

fidobsa wrote:

I do use the shovel method.....

Reply moved to https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 13#3566762

fluffy2560 wrote:

Let's be clear, Marmite was delivered to us earthlings from a higher power as gift.  It's great stuff - beloved by many babies and adults.  It's so embedded now in our culture in the UK - people even refer to our politicians as  "Marmite politicians" which means you either love them or hate them. 

I seriously think British citizenship tests could be based on if you like Marmite - more points for that.   Not sure what the equivalent would be in HU - goulash paste?

I can't stand the wretched stuff so where would that leave me? Or do you only mean for people wanting to become British citizens? Many moons ago I used to have to sometimes drive past the Marmite factory in Burton and the smell was enough to put me off. To me,  Branston pickle is the stuff to convert a cheese sandwich into a British cheese sandwich.

Table manners... Hummmm...
I suppose I can conjure up a passable "lady Like" facade if needed.
My eldest sister actually forced  strict manners for the longest period when she was a teen in the 1960's, as well as our mom popping us on the head if we spoke with our mouth full etc.
My sister was so into all the proper ways of doing everything when she was a teen. She even wore high heels in the house while balancing a book on her head, well actually our mother made my 2 older sisters do that,with me, well 2 left feet and being hyer active, she spent more time making me sit still in a chair and sit on my hands.
Sis, actually pulled out our mom's best silver table set put all the forks and spoons out and actually would measure the distance, that was for a normal school night dinner!!!
My mom indulged her for the longest time, I suppose I picked up a couple of tips during that test.
I did attend a Easter dinner here in Hungary with a HU friend who invited me over ( husband stayed home, he was not in a party mood) her father, brother and cousins were all at the table, her friend who was from Russia, a women, actually almost made me swallow my fork because she was reaching for a dish of food across my plate, a huge no-no, turned me off from my meal.
The good thing is suppose is if and when I ever need to pull out some real table manners, I may be able to put my brain in overdrive and remember not to spit on the floor or use the back of my sleeve to wipe my mouth!
My sister did attend the Queens Tea in London way back in the 1970's when she worked for a UK news station. Guess all her practice and strict rules of social do's and don't's came in handy at least for once in her life.