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Running red lights, no helmets.. westerners??!?!

http://hanoiiplus.com/chuyen-chang-tay- … -vuot-den/

What do you think..?

Personally I think you should be shot! you respect laws in your own country but when you come here you just flip them finger..

this helmet thing I really don't care.. you crash and you die.. (if lucky)

But running red lights.. that boils my blood! especially if they wave their hands "I go first.."

PS. how much paintball handgun cost............  :mad:

Wald0 :

What do you think..?

Personally I think you should be shot! you respect laws in your own country but when you come here you just flip them finger..

:

I think you've read a newspaper.

http://www.mrandmrsbackpacker.com/engli … n-vietnam/

Vietnamese, no respect for their own laws, flipping their fingers at it.

Yes! but not all of them.. and there are many.. plus their education on road rules.. what iare westerners excuses???

"I think you've read a newspaper"

Yairs.   You just don't see that stuff in Indonesia...     :whistle:

Bazza139 :

"I think you've read a newspaper"

Yairs.   You just don't see that stuff in Indonesia...     :whistle:

No, never...maybe a little.. but I'm not wishing death on anyone.
That seems harsh.

If expats running red lights gets up your nose, the locals must be driving you to a nervous breakdown.

Nah.   Everyone nose Blondes have a sensitive soul...      :shy

Bazza139 :

Nah.   Everyone nose Blondes have a sensitive soul...      :shy

And a big nose.

Actually I just expect more from westerners.. just keep forgetting that there are as many retards among us too... 😝

New item, Oct 15 2016, TuoiTreNews

"German expat shoots drivers in Hanoi"

Saturday an unstable high school teacher from Germany was arrested for targeting motorbike riders in Hanoi's old town. A witness said "he was spraying anyone who ran a red light". Police captain Vung said "When he blasted the traffic officer's uniform with green and orange pastels, we realized his weapon was not deadly" or S.W.A.T. would have "pumped him full of lead".

The shooter allegedly pre-announced his act on Expat.com last week. "Running red lights.. that boils my blood" he wrote on 9/10/16. Apparently other blog posters though he was insincere in his threat, and began joking about noses.

Wald0 :

Actually I just expect more from westerners.. just keep forgetting that there are as many retards among us too... 😝

..Uh Oh..!!      ..he's onto us!

..we've been sprung!     Curse these intelligentsia!!      :mad:

( At least now we know where Wally is...)      :offtopic:

gobot :

New item, Oct 15 2016, TuoiTreNews

"German expat shoots drivers in Hanoi"

Saturday an unstable high school teacher from Germany was arrested for targeting motorbike riders in Hanoi's old town. A witness said "he was spraying anyone who ran a red light". Police captain Vung said "When he blasted the traffic officer's uniform with green and orange pastels, we realized his weapon was not deadly" or S.W.A.T. would have "pumped him full of lead".

The shooter allegedly pre-announced his act on Expat.com last week. "Running red lights.. that boils my blood" he wrote on 9/10/16. Apparently other blog posters though he was insincere in his threat, and began joking about noses.

This German gets my vote.. and need to make one of these.. 😝😝😂😂http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/06/11/motorcycle-leather-saddle-seat-with-gun-holster/

Underarm holster is faster       :idontagree:

Wald0 :

This German gets my vote.. and need to make one of these.. 😝😝😂😂http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/06/11/motorcycle-leather-saddle-seat-with-gun-holster/

You're so wound up about this that you couldn't even see that he was kidding you.  He just got the country wrong.

Wald0 :

Yes! but not all of them.. and there are many.. plus their education on road rules.. what iare westerners excuses???

Easy - The westerners are trying to blend into local society, accepting social norms exactly as any good expat should.
The best of us eat rice all the time and poop in squat toilets.

The best of us?   (Thanks)  I was beginning to wonder..?

I only eat wild rice and carry a folding shovel.

Evolved or devolved: that is the question...

THIGV :
Wald0 :

This German gets my vote.. and need to make one of these.. 😝😝😂😂http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/06/11/motorcycle-leather-saddle-seat-with-gun-holster/

You're so wound up about this that you couldn't even see that he was kidding you.  He just got the country wrong.

I knew that.. ;) but when you get the wrong country it can't be me.. and there is no need to go old town ;) my dinh is enough.. :D

note that anyone in an accident who is not wearing a helmet is not covered by insurance in any way. why risk your life savings for the sake of wearing a helmet ?

Most expats embarrass me, not because of their driving but because they think it's cool to be drunk and obnoxious.

I do believe :

Most expats embarrass me, not because of their driving but because they think it's cool to be drunk and obnoxious.

Drunk and..?    Intoxicated vs Obnoxious: it is the mindset that annoys me
most of all.   The sense of entitlement + belief they are God's gift to every
'other' person here.   In every culture of S.E. Asia, not just Viet Nam.

I agree, most, not all Westerners.   Overweight, overbearing - and over here.

    I don't believe: I know.      :nothappy:

I've been a motorcyclist for more than 40 years and travelled the world on two wheels (70-plus countries), and can say that living in Vietnam for three years has taught me that the two-wheeled traffic here is far more civilised than it seems at first. After all, they grow up on bikes, the pace is mostly very sedate, and there is little to no road rage (it wouldn't work if there was). Just squeeze in carefully and they'll go around you -- like crossing the road as a pedestrian.

Yes, some Western tourists flout the rules (and not wearing a helmet is tremendously stupid), but I often flout the rules too, just like every other Vietnamese. Go with the flow. Don't look left when turning right at an intersection? Check -- though I still take a quick look for trucks/buses and cars -- and the bikes will all go around you. Simply be prepared that anyone coming from the right won't look either, so you won't crash into them. Go down the left lane on a divided road when the traffic banks up? Check. Go on the sidewalk when others do? Check. Go the wrong way down a short one-way street if you really need to? Check. It works and everyone is tolerant about it.

The problem with some tourists is that they come from countries where road rules are absolute, rather than common sense. And more often than not, they are novice riders who haven't learned two-wheeled road sense from birth and have not had the experience that a mistake can really hurt. They come to Vietnam, buy a Honda Win in Hanoi (a crap bike made in China, but very cheap) and ride it down to Saigon, oblivious of a culture that has learned to live on two wheels.

That can set them apart, yes.

By the way, does anyone know of a reliable source of Vietnamese road rules? Most of the things I find on the internet seem to contradict one another when it comes to maximum speeds, alcohol limits, road-lane rules, right of way (ha, ha!) and just about everything else.

Are you serious, Rob..?

"By the way, does anyone know of a reliable source of Vietnamese road rules? Most of the things I find on the internet seem to contradict one another when it comes to maximum speeds, alcohol limits, road-lane rules, right of way (ha, ha!) and just about everything else..."

Oh!  ..just joking..?      Yes, they won't ignore you - just avoid you.   
There is NO road rage.  Viet people are co-operative, not competitive
and yes, much more civil-ised than Western minds.

True intelligence would want power over none but itself: the real
problem arises from being brainwashed into disbelieving it.

Agree.  Once you flick the mindset switch to theirs, life begins to make
much more sense, like Sinatra's mantra of doing it my (the right) way.
Correct; Tolerance.   Once we get over the rat-race routine we were
trained to obey, it becomes very easy to merge into more than the traffic.

But don't worry; Western values of material consumerism are now seen
to be swiftly ( and exponentially) sneaking in.   Look at all the fat kids...

Still, some of us appreciate (Viet) values and intend to enjoy them...

..while we can...     :happy:

* Intelligence is also the ability to adapt: just do it!

I have seen a few (3) foreigners who have learned how to drive in Saigon (Vietnam) and robvan has it right. So many foreigners think they can drive just like back home. You can; but will only survive by the skill of every other driver. Eventually a "superior" foreigner will have an accident. A child can operate a motorbike but can't assess the three dimensional environment. The greatest compliment I ever received was when I was told, "You drive like a Vietnamese."

"You drive like a Vietnamese"? Wow!

You'd be perfectly at home in Rome, Paris, Madrid, Jakarta, Delhi... I could go on. You'd be hopeless in New York (though the traffic there is just as slow) and especially anywhere in Australia.

..not on a motorbike, he would get there in 1/2 the time...

That's about all I miss of Australia!  (the Great Southern Suffering)
- my Norton 750 Commando.   (Sigh!)  Now that was a bike!!!   :idontagree:

robvan :

By the way, does anyone know of a reliable source of Vietnamese road rules? Most of the things I find on the internet seem to contradict one another when it comes to maximum speeds, alcohol limits, road-lane rules, right of way (ha, ha!) and just about everything else.

http://www.moj.gov.vn/vbpq/en/lists/vn% … emid=10506

try here..

Thanks, Wald0. As you say, "start here"... and spend the next day-and-a-half working one's way through opaque government circulars, decrees and resolutions. Whew!

I might actually try and do that starting tomorrow, since I'm a former bike journo and like to sink my teeth into things related to two wheels.

But why can't they just put out a simple and definitive road rules booklet???

My friend once showed me a site where they had all main rules with some nice cartoons.. Unfortunatly I have no idea what page was that :D

Yes, I remember that one and can't find it myself right now. But it was mainly 'nice' with cartoons from a third party, not a clear information page that had government approval.

We need simple communication, not lengthy government announcements of committee decisions festooned with dates and numbers. They don't mean anything to the average person.

miss those ATGATT attitude back in Canada.

Come down to my part of town near Nga Tu Vung Tau in Bien Hoa. Drive into the residential areas. Most don't wear helmet. Lots of trucks around but what good would a helmet do. Serious nosebleed.

"You'd be hopeless in New York (though the traffic there is just as slow) and especially anywhere in Australia." I'm a Canadian and drove there for about 45 years including forays to New York city, Washington DC etc. I lived for a long time in Sydney Australia and many other countries. I don't know how you can come up with the conclusion that my skill in Saigon would lessen my skill in other countries.

I do miss being able to take a leisurely drive/ride and enjoy it, here that's just not possible on country roads.

You're right, there aren't many enjoyable country roads near Saigon at least, but there are notable exceptions further afield. The High Ho Chi Minh Trail in central Vietnam is generally in good repair -- probably because it's so empty -- and offers stunning views, especially the section north of Khe Sanh. The TL702 coastal road around the peninsula between Cam Ranh and Phan Rang is brand new, deserted and quite spectacular as well. And these are just a couple I'm aware of. I'm sure other riders can share quite a few more.

I was referring more to a leisurely drive close to my local area. Somewhere within the provence.Those places you mention are more for long trips.

Yep, fully aware of that. I could have added the run from Dalat to Nha Trang once you get past Dalat's outlying townships, but again, that's not a day trip in the province. It is, however, a most enjoyable four- or five-day loop: Saigon-Dalat-Nha Trang- Phan Rang-Mui Ne-Vung Tau-Saigon. Let's hope others can suggest rides closer to home (Saigon?) and we can perhaps get together for a day ride in the dry season?

@I Do Believe: Sorry, I didn't mean to say that you'd be hopeless in NY or Aus traffic, since you obviously have lots of experience there. What I was trying to get at (clumsily so), was that driving like the average Vietnamese who grew up here is a disaster over there where rules are absolute and road rage prevails if anyone does anything unexpected.

I used to commute along Victoria St, Richmond in Melbourne, aka Little Saigon, and got to experience the full gamut on a daily basis: left-hand indicator but turning right (or no indicator at all); pottering along at 25km/h while hogging two lanes and swerving a bit; unable to park quickly and efficiently; opening car doors without looking; creeping out of a side street and turning into your lane without looking... I could go on but I'm sure you recognise the patterns.

Fortunately Melbourne is fairly tolerant (most of the time -- it seems to be getting far less so), but try doing any of the above in New York!

Yes, you are right the average Vietnamese driver would be in jail in the West for driving like they do here. The average Western driver should be in jail for the way they drive here.  In Canada we have a lot of Chinese immigrants and there is an old joke; How do you make a Chinese go blind? Put a windshield in front of him/her. Nowadays with the new generation of Chinese they drive pretty good.

The driving habit that almost all Vietnamese in Hawaii carry over is constantly switching lanes, particularly on the freeway.   This usually gains them little or nothing but they seem compelled to do it.   They do learn maybe even before getting a new license, that running red lights in a car is frowned on, if not fatal.

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