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Recuirements for teaching jobs, HELP!

Hi, I'll apologise in advance, a lot of my questions have probably been asked many times in the forum, but I still hope somebody would have the time and knowledge to try to answer them. :)
I'm a 25-year old danish teacher, who are eager to move to vietnam and teach english. As I've already read several places, a bachelor-degree and a TEFL course is recuired. Along with being a native speaker.
So, my situation is a bit different. I'm a certified english and danish teacher  (bachelor degree), Had a course and finished exams in psychology and didactics, along with more than 5 months of teaching practice. I am not a native speaker, but I speak fluently and have stayed at an international school for 2 years in Uganda.
Right now I am a full-time teacher in a 7th grade in a danish school. I love it here, but a want a change of culture, environment and adventure.
So my question is:
If a save money to go to vietnam, travel a bit, look for schools and appartments:
Is it possible for me to find a job with my experience? And without a TEFL/CELTA?
How fast should I expect to find a job and appartment? - and in that case how much money should a bring to life for in the beginning?

I welcome any other advice! Thank you in advance!

I am not a teacher, but your situation sounds similar to recent threads. Search for archived teaching blog posts here.  Also look at the job classifieds for the variety of english teaching positions and employers.
You already have classroom experience. Why not, in the next two months, while you are planning your move, take a 120 hour TEFL class online? Only cost around $US200. Then you don't have to feel disadvantaged, and there will be more opportunities.
The larger language centers and international schools can be strict and selective for Celta and English-speaking country natives. But there are many smaller centers, also companies wanting to train employees, and I have heard outlying cities have a hard time attracting teachers. Tell them you are a native English speaker, northern europeans are anyway, and they probably won't notice your accent.
You can live alone for < $800 in Saigon, but allow for $1000. Network expat.com, Facebook Saigon Intl, Expats in HCMC, etc. You can find an apt in a week, maybe even a roommate arrangement. You might have to start with a part time job, or a couple, so you might not be meeting all your expenses to start.

Hi Hannah,

First of all, I think you should take time to learn and get TEFL, it's not  a big problem with such an experienced teacher like you. If you would like to work for a professional English center in Viet Nam, experience works a lot; however, as you are Danish maybe you have to prove more than Brits, Australian, American candidates. Be truthful and do not tell your recruiter you are native speaker of English in the first place because when they examine your portfolio including your passport and find out you're not, you'll very probably be disqualified.

In my opinion, 2000-2500 USD is sufficient for living in Ho Chi Minh City during the time you try to seek job unless you like to travel or enjoy yourself too much. Like Gobot said above, an initial part-time job might not be a bad idea for a start for daily expenses. On the other hand, Danish business community in HCMC is growing and would be a great help so don't worry too much.  :)

Please do not take this personally, but you will find employment because you are young, have blonde hair and likely blue eyes, and if you will pardon me, look very attractive.  The fact that you are not a native speaker is readily apparent based on this quote:  "I'm a 25-year old danish teacher, who are eager to move to vietnam and teach english. As I've already read several places, a bachelor-degree and a TEFL course is recuired. Along with being a native speaker."  It contains an incorrect verb form, failure to capitalize properly, and a sentence fragment.  I looked for "recuired" in a British dictionary thinking it may be a British spelling but could not find it.  Of course none of these things will be noticed by a Vietnamese language school hiring manager after he picks his jaw off the ground.  At the same time this manager will refuse to hire second generation Vietnamese or those who came to the US at an early age despite the fact that English is their second L1 as opposed to L2 in your case.  (Yes, you can have two L1's if you acquire them during the critical period.)  He also will not even consider an over fifty grey haired or balding retired school teacher from the US, UK, or AU.  He may consider applicants from the Philippines who have teaching degrees and perfect grammar, but only because he can pay them half as much as he will pay you.

As I said, please don't take this personally.  I'm just venting.

In a more helpful vein, you might consider getting a CELTA while still in Europe as opposed to a less expensive TEFL course.  This will validate your English ability at minimum level CEFR-1, which you likely are.  This is the baseline requirement to take the course.  The Cambridge website shows no CELTA course in Denmark.  However, you can fairly easily go to Cambridge itself or some other place in Britain to take the course, at least until they leave the EU and you will need a visa.

http://www.cambridgeenglish.org/teachin … ons/celta/

THIGV may well think he is (just?) venting, but the  'blond, blue-eyed'  bit
is a well established fact even the feminists will confirm.

Truth is (not always) hurtful...

The bits of paper actually mean little more than looking good framed on
the office wall.   Assertive self-confidence with your prior experience will
guarantee YOU will be able to choose the work YOU want.

You have the advantage.  Do not dismiss it.

Choose carefully.   Read the fine print.  Too many use noble words and
paper promises riddled with rhetoric and sophistry.   ..just saying...     :whistle:

..and there are endless options re: accom. & living costs.   NGO's are
always looking for volunteers to teach English and provide free accom.
& food for a few hours work per week.   ..and it gets better...

Google is your friend.   Research and reap the benefits.

Welcome to (your?) Utopia...      :top:

HI !   I am looking for the teacher for kids  english class  around 9-11 years.
SMS me for more information
Regards
Ms. Phi Yen

Hello Hanna!
I think is possible with your Experience ti finding Job in vietnam
if have any Issue, feel free contact with me, i will help
BR

You see that my vent was predictive and our non-native speaker is already being recruited despite her numerous spelling and grammatical errors.  It is amazing what blonde hair will do for you in the EFL business in Vietnam.

THIGV :

You see that my vent was predictive and our non-native speaker is already being recruited despite her numerous spelling and grammatical errors.  It is amazing what blonde hair will do for you in the EFL business in Vietnam.

True, and most of this comes from the parents. Schools will employ someone based on looks just to keep the parents happy, and the kids in their language centres.

I apologise for my spelling mistakes. I wrote my post in a hurry, and I guess I my own focus was on the content of the post and not the grammar. I do though understand, that it is very important how you appear through your writing.
BUT I feel the need to stand up for myself here. Yes, I am blonde and non-native speaker. But that doesn't neccessarily mean that I am unqualified for a job as a teacher. My bachelor degree has from the beginning been set to become a teacher. This means I have been through child psychology and didacties. I am educated to teach in the best possible way for students individually and as a class.

Im not saying anything. Over to you Bazz and Thigv. :)

Wrong reply! Have a nice day :)

Please understand that my main gripe is not with you but with those recruiters who will hire you ahead of a 2nd generation Vietnamese-American or Vietnamese-Australian who is a true native speaker;  who will hire you instead of a 50 year old retired teacher; who will hire you ahead of a Filipina who has the exact same qualifications that you do or will offer her $12 an hour instead.  However innocent, you are the beneficiary of their prejudices.

dear hannah,
how are you??? Where are you come from??
http://www.expat.com/en/jobs/asia/vietn … acher.html
thanks
best regard,
dung

Hi Hannah, I did a CELTA course at Apollo in District 3 last year. This is the best course if you feel disadvantaged in any way because it is the  course with the highest professional rating. They also have an impressive pass rate. On my course there were 16 people including a girl from Poland, a lady from Holland a guy from Belgium and a girl from Romania? Who was also fluent in Russian and English. They all got jobs! The lady from Holland had an English degree and got a job at a good Dutch/English school! You can be honest with Apollo. Your greatest assets are your looks, teaching experience and qualifications in a closely related area. Your assets will vary in importance depending on who is interviewing you. Being a non native speaker is a huge advantage on the CELTA course as you fully understand tenses. Native speakers find this a hurdle as we are never taught this and have to learn it for the course. I found a new fully furnished 25m2 apartment for 300 euros a month and I spend less than 4 euros a day on food. I bought a Yamaha Nouvo motorbike/scooter for less than 200 euros (google it). I've been to Vietnam on ten visits prior to my selling up and moving and have travelled extensively. I have loads more info if you want to friend me. gobot is a very wise, reliable and knowledgeable guy. Colinoscapee also has a lot of wisdom and tells it like it is and THIGV is also a straight shooter and contributes to many blogs. I don't know these guys but have learned plenty from their willingness, like mine, to help others in the same boat. Check out torfx before you leave regarding money transfer, they are an English company I found advertising on another expat site. I would concentrate on the job before travel but you could come via Siem Reap. Hopefully you'll make contact again because you need to get some books before you leave also. Tedi

A few years ago you might have been able to just drop in and find work probably but these days schools will need to see and photocopy a degree and an English teaching certificate of some kind. The degree must be from an English speaking country. That is if you want steady work. For example, AMA, an old stand by for a survival job now insists on a TEFL of some sort. The government may not be policing work permits very much but they are insisting on proper documentation.

Like anyone who comes here to work illegally you will be easy prey for any number of unscrupulous schools and individuals. Schools can fire you on a whim, refuse to pay you, pretty much anything they damn well please and you will have no legal recourse.

A European with an English teaching degree should be looking for work in Europe not contemplating committing  a crime in a foreign country.  What's up with that?

Surely you can do better than USD1000-1500 (illegally) a month in your own backyard (legally). That's before costs like a place to live, food, utilities, fun.

You need to think this through.

Most L2 speakers read and write much better than they speak. Hiring managers, parents and school directors are pretty experienced with native speakers. They aren't stupid. Some of them are educated in English speaking universities. Something else to think about.

You need to improve your English. CELTA is an option but I'm betting that there are cheaper routes that are just as good or better in your country. Focus on your vocabulary. Get a thesaurus (the book not a website) and read, read, read. Elevate your career expectations. You could or should aim for teaching IELTS or TOEFL classes where your experience would be invaluable for other learners. The pay is much, much better than that for the common garden variety ESL teachers who grow on trees.

VietCanada :

A European with an English teaching degree should be looking for work in Europe not contemplating committing  a crime in a foreign country.  What's up with that?

There are many reasons why people work in other countries, love is one. I moved from the UK to Austria because my wife is Austrian. I know lots of people that have moved around the world for the same reason.

Did you live and work there illegally?

I also know and have met many, many people over my ~20 years teaching in 3 different countries.

A lot of them were working illegally for various reasons.

But I'd have to say that of all the hundreds of people I've met in this job, the legal ones were the happiest overall. Is that surprising?

I must say that the work that some illegal workers put into being an illegal worker is fascinating. I spend that time basking in the glow of being legal and all the benefits that arise from it. Is that wrong?

I was sick and tired of living in countries past their use by date. The people whom Hannah would come into contact with in Denmark would be highly undesirable just as teaching the riff raff in England would be.
I have also bumped into a few people who have lamented on not going to Singapore 40 years ago. They wouldn't have wanted to! It looked worse than Cambodia! With one of the fastest growing economies globally what is wrong for once in being in the right place at the right time? She wouldn't have to work illegally, she has all of the correct paperwork apart from the CELTA, TESOL or whatever. If someone is asking for help then who are we to deter them. Where is she safer? There or here? Which country has a rosier future? Denmark or Vietnam? Danish bacon will be history by 2050 and their welfare system will collapse before then.

Tediuki :

I was sick and tired of living in countries past their use by date. The people whom Hannah would come into contact with in Denmark would be highly undesirable just as teaching the riff raff in England would be.
I have also bumped into a few people who have lamented on not going to Singapore 40 years ago. They wouldn't have wanted to! It looked worse than Cambodia! With one of the fastest growing economies globally what is wrong for once in being in the right place at the right time? She wouldn't have to work illegally, she has all of the correct paperwork apart from the CELTA, TESOL or whatever. If someone is asking for help then who are we to deter them. Where is she safer? There or here? Which country has a rosier future? Denmark or Vietnam? Danish bacon will be history by 2050 and their welfare system will collapse before then.Danish bacon will be history by 2050 and their welfare system will collapse before then.

It is not a question of whether she is better off or not.  It is a question of whether the children of Vietnam would be be better off with her or a native speaker.  Nothing in her posts suggests that she is even close to native fluency.  I suggested that she take the CELTA because it requires a minimum English proficiency to even take the course.  Here are the qualifications for CEFR -1:

    Can understand a wide range of demanding, longer clauses, and recognize implicit meaning.
    Can express ideas fluently and spontaneously without much obvious searching for expressions.
    Can use language flexibly and effectively for social, academic and professional purposes.
    Can produce clear, well-structured, detailed text on complex subjects, showing controlled use of organizational patterns, connectors and cohesive devices.

Of course we have not heard her speak but she seems to fall short on the last item.  If she does not meet these minimal qualifications, she should not be teaching English in Vietnam. 

I might add that I find two  things in your post rather disturbing.  Specifically I refer to "teaching the riff faff in England" which likely refers to Pakistanis and Middle Eastern immigrants.  Your comment that "Danish bacon will be history by 2050 and their welfare system will collapse before then." also suggests a strong anti-immigrant bias as if Muslim immigration will lead to the collapse of the Danish pork business.  These things are admittedly somewhat circumspect but I think that most can read between the lines.  I often find it curious that some who choose to live in other countries justify it by complaining of those who come to live in their own.

I went to school in England, luckily a good government school, even so, some teachers had a hard time. I've read some posts on other sites from retired and/or former teachers in England. Comments abound concerning the few spoiling it for the many, rowdy individuals, and testing the teachers limitations on the subject or their patience. I've spoken to a couple of teachers in Sai Gon who also commented on their time teaching in England as being 'testing' and the fact that the kids will pick up on any error or contradiction, although Japanese learners tend to do the same thing. I didn't infer anything about Pakistani pupils in England, you did. Tell us more. The two in my year at school were model students from well to do families who at that time believed strongly in a good education.  Denmark's government on the other hand tried placating all who flocked there with their misled liberalist, globalist, open border ideals, including the Hell's Angels, and have paid for it along with the people. It's not a slur, it's a fact. I'm a strong believer in not bringing politics into the classroom, nor the workplace. I think you are right concerning Hannah doing a CELTA however. It puts employers minds at rest and negates any concerns they may have. The enrolment process is challenging and it is money well spent. There are non native speaking teachers teaching in Vietnam legally however who can't be understood by the pupils. My girlfriend's nephew suffered one whilst attending a very expensive school from South America. Maybe schools become occasionally desperate?

I don't think you know what what you're talking about. At all. Not a single thing.

"she has all of the correct paperwork" - Not even ballpark.

First off she has not a single document required to teach EFL in any country except her own. Assuming a degree and passport from a non-English speaking country meets the requirements in VN, it still has to be notarized and certified, maybe officially translated. Certified copies? Other documents are required of course-a CBC for example, a letter, a health check, docs from the employer.


"There are non native speaking teachers teaching in Vietnam legally" - Not AFAIK.

I've met EFL teachers that don't come from an English speaking country but I've never met one with a work permit. That would be teaching legally in VN.


"apart from the CELTA, TESOL or whatever" - Not necessary.

The OP is a certified English teacher. She is likely the equivalent of a VN English teacher here. I don't think a CELTA is going to do anything for her. She is already much more advanced in teaching theory and practice than anything a CELTA offers by virtue of her Uni degree.  Unless you would argue that a one month crash course is superior to 4 to 6 years of university education and practicum. A teaching degree is a teaching certificate and a degree. Subtle eh?


"the kids will pick up on any error or contradiction" - WTF?

If one doesn't know their subject material well enough that their students are able to point out errors then I don't know what to say. Wholly incompetent comes to mind.


Whatever else you're babbling about.

Your personal opinions about Denmark are bizarre at best and totally irrelevant to this discussion. Countries past their due date? Phenomenally nonsensical garbage and equally irrelevant.

We are basically in agreement with a few exceptions.

VietCanada :

Other documents are required of course-a CBC for example, a letter, a health check, docs from the employer.

These are needed but can be obtained in the course of planning to move or after arrival.  She does have the basic document that many illegal teachers lack; the bachelor's degree.

VietCanada :

I've met EFL teachers that don't come from an English speaking country but I've never met one with a work permit. That would be teaching legally in VN.

The Filipino teachers who taught younger children at my center were excellent teachers and all had work permits.  Most of them had Masters degrees in Education and taught at international schools during the week. 

VietCanada :

I don't think a CELTA is going to do anything for her. She is already much more advanced in teaching theory and practice than anything a CELTA offers by virtue of her Uni degree.  Unless you would argue that a one month crash course is superior to 4 to 6 years of university education and practicum.

I absolutely agree that the CELTA offers little to experienced and trained teachers.  It does however have a certain cachet in Vietnam and as I said would validate her English fluency, assuming she meets the entrance requirement.  I have a BEd but I have regretted not taking the CELTA.

VietCanada :

If one doesn't know their subject material well enough that their students are able to point out errors then I don't know what to say. Wholly incompetent comes to mind.

I am reminded of an EA that I had in public school who pointed out that I consistently spell 40 as fourty rather than forty.  Fortunately I found a dictionary listing that described fourty as an archaic spelling which I said was OK since I am archaic too.  :huh:

VietCanada :

Your personal opinions about Denmark are bizarre at best and totally irrelevant to this discussion. Countries past their due date? Phenomenally nonsensical garbage and equally irrelevant.

Perhaps not entirely irrelevant as comments here and on other threads are indicative of an attitude that Western civilization is in decline but has or had a level of superiority.  Hence his opinion that the OP is qualified by virtue of coming from a European country even if it is not English speaking.

I notice that the OP has not responded lately and that her last reply was dismissive of criticism of her qualifications.  Perhaps she is already teaching in Vietnam.   :(

Don't blow a fuse unless you live near a cardiac clinic. It's only a forum.
Hannah comes from Denmark which is as relevant as someone leaving South Africa. That's why I mentioned it.
I know a guy with a degree in filmography who did a Celta in order to work here legally. He has a work permit. Obviously he did his medical and had his photocopies splattered with red ink etc.!
The lovely Dutch lady did the Celta course and she had a masters degree in English!
Countries past their use by date?
South Africa, where I had to carry a Taurus .357 magnum. The country was good when they needed me but it started going down the pan before I escaped. 
Australia, where industry has closed down and affordability has gone through the roof (but I made half a million on my house that I designed and project managed). I also lost 425,000 frequent flyer points when Ansett Airlines became insolvent!
I'm not going to mention Spain.
As for teachers that are pulled up by pupils, Japanese students, or my mother. Australia has just realised that 65% of it's teachers don't have a degree in the subject that they teach. I think that's generally the norm in the west and all teachers have to start somewhere.
I think this topic has run its course. Maybe someone in Phu My Hung needs help with a perfectly designed western kitchen, or is it chicken?

THIGV :

We are basically in agreement with a few exceptions.

VietCanada :

Other documents are required of course-a CBC for example, a letter, a health check, docs from the employer.

These are needed but can be obtained in the course of planning to move or after arrival.  She does have the basic document that many illegal teachers lack; the bachelor's degree.

No.
This not the same as the the poster claiming she had all the necessary documents required.

VietCanada :

I've met EFL teachers that don't come from an English speaking country but I've never met one with a work permit. That would be teaching legally in VN.

The Filipino teachers who taught younger children at my center were excellent teachers and all had work permits.  Most of them had Masters degrees in Education and taught at international schools during the week. 

No.
In order to get a work permit the employer has to satisfy the government that a local could not do the job, hence a foreign employee is required. An applicant with a teaching certificate willing to work for 6,000,000 dong a month who doesn't speak English a s a first language would be pretty easy to find in Vietnam versus an applicant with a teaching certificate who doesn't speak English or Vietnamese as a first language and expects 40,000,000 to 50,000,000 a month. Is this too subtle?
I can see specialized degrees such as masters in education, childhood education maybe. But this is not what the OP has. 

VietCanada :

I don't think a CELTA is going to do anything for her. She is already much more advanced in teaching theory and practice than anything a CELTA offers by virtue of her Uni degree.  Unless you would argue that a one month crash course is superior to 4 to 6 years of university education and practicum.

I absolutely agree that the CELTA offers little to experienced and trained teachers.  It does however have a certain cachet in Vietnam and as I said would validate her English fluency, assuming she meets the entrance requirement.  I have a BEd but I have regretted not taking the CELTA.

No.
I have rarely seen a job requiring a certificate to teach adults granted by Cambridge as opposed to a certificate to teach EFL granted by any number of reputable institutions. You do not need CELTA to teach in Asia. You do not need anything other than a bachelors degree in any subject. This is perfectly understandable since having a degree above the level one is teaching is standard practice in education around the world for as long as teaching has been a thing. 2000 years give or take?
Having said that, schools or language institutes are free to ask for whatever qualifications they like. There is no reality that all educational institutes would require a niche degree like a CELTA.


VietCanada :

If one doesn't know their subject material well enough that their students are able to point out errors then I don't know what to say. Wholly incompetent comes to mind.

I am reminded of an EA that I had in public school who pointed out that I consistently spell 40 as fourty rather than forty.  Fortunately I found a dictionary listing that described fourty as an archaic spelling which I said was OK since I am archaic too.  :huh:

No.
Spelling? This is not what the poster alluded too at all. Try grammar.

VietCanada :

Your personal opinions about Denmark are bizarre at best and totally irrelevant to this discussion. Countries past their due date? Phenomenally nonsensical garbage and equally irrelevant.

Perhaps not entirely irrelevant as comments here and on other threads are indicative of an attitude that Western civilization is in decline but has or had a level of superiority.  Hence his opinion that the OP is qualified by virtue of coming from a European country even if it is not English speaking.

No.
This is irrelevant, racist BS. The poster clearly has an attitude problem with respect to Europe. Please do not enable fake news on this site.

I notice that the OP has not responded lately and that her last reply was dismissive of criticism of her qualifications.  Perhaps she is already teaching in Vietnam.   :(

Maybe?
Perhaps she knows the difference between BS and honest advice and decided to pursue her career in the appropriate environment. Maybe all the fake news BS caused her to look for more serious, realistic advice elsewhere.

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