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Do you agree with the survey results?

This survey comes from the responses of over 14,000 expats from all over to all over. Not just Americans abroad, but Germans in Brazil, Japanese in Canada, French in Hungary, etc.

How did Hungary do?

In the category, Working Abroad, Hungary came in 25th out of 67 countries overall. Looking closer, for Job & Career, Hungary came in 9th, Work-Life Balance 7th -- looking good so far! But on Job Security came in 46th.  For comparison:
Working Abroad - Overall
1st:     Luxembourg
2nd:   Taiwan
3rd:    Germany
25th:  Hungary
26th:  USA
65th:  Brazil
66th:  Italy
67th:  Greece

In the category, Quality of Life, Overall, Hungary comes in a respectable 20th out of 67 countries.  Looking closer, Leisure Options, Hungary came in at 17th, Personal Happiness at 13th, Travel & Transport at 11th, Health & Well-Being at 39th, and Safety & Security at 38th.
Again, looking at Quality of Life comparisons:
Overall Ratings:
1st:    Taiwan
2nd:   Austria
3rd:    Japan
20th:  Hungary
35th:  USA
65th:  Kuwait
66th:  Mozambique
67th:  Nigeria

In the category, Ease of Settling In, Overall, Hungary comes in 51st, mainly due to difficulties with language.  Feeling Welcome, Hungary is 32nd, Friendliness 46th, Finding Friends 38th, but Language comes in at 67th out of 67!
Looking at Ease of Settling In comparisons:
Overall Ratings:
1st:     Mexico
2nd:   Costa Rica
3rd:    Uganda
21st:   USA
51st:   Hungary
65th:  Denmark
66th:  Saudi Arabia
67th:  Kuwait

Referring to Finances, for Personal Finance, Hungary comes in 4th, Cost of Living, Hungary is 6th, and Housing Affordability, Hungary is 3rd.

If the reason of your move is Love, Hungary scores 7th in the category, "Most Satisfied with Relationship" -- interestingly, there is a gender split here with women much more satisfied than men respondents in Hungary.  In regards to social life / local culture in Hungary, 23% of women stated this aspect of expat life is a "piece of cake", while only 9% of men agreed.

Hungary was one of the largest movers in the survey, moving up 8 spots from 2015's survey results.

Hungary was the 21st most popular destination; and showed a very strong increase as a place to "Build Your Career" (from 52nd place to 27th).  Other big climbers in this category were Romania and India, gaining 20 and 27 positions respectively.  Hungary also saw large increases in Personal Finance and Cost of Living rankings, along with Russia and Malta.  Hungary went from 27th to 4th place!  (Malta went from 42nd to 6th place, the largest increase).  Roughly 30% of Expats in Hungary stated that they were "Completely Satisfied" with their financial situation -- an almost 20% increase over 2015.  This also split down gender lines with 77% of women expressing optimism regarding their career prospects but only 48% of men.  Interestingly, more men than women stated they have more than enough disposable household income (40% of men vs 10% of women).

The whole survey is publicly available if you'd like it (all 188 pages!). It definitely points to the fact that no one place can be all things to all people, and many areas do one or two things extremely well (Nordic countries do extremely well in family life categories, for example) but never all areas.  Overall, I think this is an interesting report showing great optimism for Hungary.

What do you think?

Wow, really do not know what to say, this is a rather long and thought provoking question.

Personal experience for me is from immigrants I know in the US.
My son's ex GF from Japan came to the US in her early 20's with a limited amount of English, she had worked at the Hiroshima museum in Japan and as a tour agent in Japan so she knew some English before coming to the US for college.
She had almost no aid from her parents, came to the US in her early 20's to go to college in Las Vegas. She worked hard at part-time jobs, had tons of room mates from everywhere and went to school full time in the IT field.
My son met her about one year into her 4 years of college.
What he liked about her was her drive.
She finished college and on her first job interview in the IT field she beat out 11 Americans for the job!
I do not know the stats here in Hu for a HU going against an outsider for the same job.
In the US as long as your "legal" you are treated just like anyone else, no difference at all.
I worked in casinos with people from just about every country on earth and no one was treated any differently because of their country of birth as a born American.
I am not 100% a flag waver by any means but honestly I think the US still is the best place for anyone who has the energy and drive to make the most of themselves from nothing.
Personally  we are only in Hungary because it is cheap,  we are old and lazy.
I know anyone with half a brain and an oz. of skill can still get a nice life in the US within a few years of entry as long as they are willing to work hard.
After my son's ex GF went home for a visit to Japan, she just out of curiosity asked about IT jobs in Japan, she was around 26 years old then. Everyone in Japan told her so was too old already to be a new employee and the only job she could get was as a cleaning lady!
If you were not on track in the IT field right out of HS then you were too late.

I'm a professional expat and I don't believe that survey at all.  I've been to Luxembourg a number of times and it's one of the most boring places I have ever visited.  The only good thing was cheap petrol.  Austria 2nd for QoL, no way, boring too.

As this is a survey, everyone is entitled to their opinion...

As far as the specific ones Fluffy mentioned -- while Luxembourg was good for your career, it was 56th for both Leisure options and Personal Happiness. That seems to agree with Fluffy's assessment.
Austria scored very high in Health and Wellness, and Transport, but was 58th for Friendliness, 31st for Personal Happiness. Again, this supports Fluffy's statement.

You can be perfectly healthy and bored. You can have many leisure options but be unable to afford them. You can have a safe place to have a family and but then you have less work-life balance.

Still seems to support this survey....

What survey is this?

I have also heard about a survey that said Hungary had one of the highest suicide rates...

Vicces1 wrote:

The whole survey is publicly available if you'd like it (all 188 pages!).

And that would be.... where?

How can anyone seriously and professionally comment without being provided the source?  ;)

And saying 14,000 people participated really means little. In fact, it leads me to consider you might be falling for some fallacious beliefs about statistics and sampling theory.  A survey of a 400 people that are a real random sample of the population being surveyed, can actually be more statistically valid and accurate than one done with thousands who are biased. Just a general comment.

But, for example, if more people that answered this survey this year in Hungary were expats sent here by multinational corporations with good abroad payment and benefit packages than last year, this can skew the results, even if that expats type were fewer of the total expat population in Hungary in general.

Without seeing the survey in question, where they should describe their methods, I can not directly comment on this survey in particular.

klsallee wrote:

In fact, it leads me to consider you might be falling for some fallacious beliefs about statistics and sampling theory.

Yes, that was my first thought.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I have also heard about a survey that said Hungary had one of the highest suicide rates...

Not a survey. Actual data:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c … icide_rate

The above site's data is from 2012, and things change of course, but given this year (2012) Hungary ranks pretty high in the world, and one of the highest in Europe.

Yes, our neighbor just did herself in a few months back. Seems the booze wasn't doing the job fast enough so she took some pills.
Too bad, really sort of sad, she was a 60 old women, a widow who for about 2 years was dating our next door neighbors youngest son who was maybe in his late 20's?!
No wonder she set herself up for heartbreak.
There was a song in the 1930's in Hungary called, Blue Sunday, I only see reference to that with songs by the Doors and Tom Petty but this was the original version.
This song was so depressing and sad that it was BANNED in HUngary because so many people were jumping on Sunday's after listening to it on the radio.
The song writer did himself in back in the 1980's...

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Yes, our neighbor just did herself in a few months back.

Sad news.

I am waiting for the survey source from the OP.

But till then I can say that Hungarian reality is often quite different from the expat bubble many expats live in. Which this survey (which I only assume, and maybe do so unfairly since I have no evidence) may represent.

Szomoru Vasarnap is the original hungarian song.

klsallee wrote:

.......But till then I can say that Hungarian reality is often quite different from the expat bubble many expats live in....

Uh-oh....it's that bubble again.....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d0/Rover_%28The_Prisoner%29.jpg

Vicces1 wrote:

As this is a survey, everyone is entitled to their opinion...

As far as the specific ones Fluffy mentioned -- while Luxembourg was good for your career, it was 56th for both Leisure options and Personal Happiness. That seems to agree with Fluffy's assessment.
Austria scored very high in Health and Wellness, and Transport, but was 58th for Friendliness, 31st for Personal Happiness. Again, this supports Fluffy's statement.

You can be perfectly healthy and bored. You can have many leisure options but be unable to afford them. You can have a safe place to have a family and but then you have less work-life balance.

Still seems to support this survey....

BTW, I lived in Kosovo on an aid project way back in 2002.  I lived an extremely safe and protected life with all sorts of privileges unknown to the locals.   There were so many foreigners there, the entire economy was based upon aid workers income. I seemed to know everyone. At one point I'm told, there were 20,000 aid workers in Pristina alone!   We'd drive about in aid agency cars, spending aid money all over the place, making decisions on the fly, hiring locals and carry out the work we were tasked to do.  Social life was excellent.  Security superb - armed police, private guards toting weaponry at the office.  When a bunch of NATO troops are driving their tanks down the street, you tend to feel quite OK especially since you're one part of that machinery of security and aid. 

I would therefore rate the Kosovo back then far higher than Luxembourg. I felt safer there than in Belgrade.   Even Mrs Fluffy was with me there. 

So, horses for courses.

Sorry ksallee, I've been travelling.
https://www.internations.org/expat-insider/

And the suicide rate statistic is different -- that's Hungarians doing themselves in, not foreigners living abroad.  I've heard that Finland has one of the highest rates of suicide of middle-aged men. Doesn't mean Finland is a bad place -- but obviously it has challenges.  ksallee mentioned the bubble -- it's different for everyone obviously.  Fluffy lived in an armored bubble!

The reason for the post was to get people talking, discussing what they may like or not like about Hungary in comparison to other countries. Again, no place is perfect but you get to pick and choose your poison sometimes in life.

By the way, the suicides associated with "Gloomy Sunday" / "Sad Sunday" are an urban legend according to Wiki:  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloomy_Sunday

I was hoping the survey results would lead to some reflection on the reasons you like living here as well, instead of focusing on negativity.  If I could get a 20-something when I'm 60, I don''t think I'd be doing too bad! :-)

Vicces1 wrote:

I was hoping the survey results would lead to some reflection on the reasons you like living here as well, instead of focusing on negativity.

Not negative. Simply realistic.

I still dream about changing the world as much today as I did when I was 20.

But today, after years of life experiences, I have learned that I probably won't get that dream fulfilled....  unless of course I am appointed global dictator within the next two weeks (I have not given up hope on that either).  ;)

Changing the world is a fantastic goal for any age. Being young we have benefit being too stupid know things won't work or change. As we age we get wiser and more beaten down so the success rate drops.
That said, my comment about negativity was more about an appreciation of our circumstances. We have the benefit of multiculturalism, of choosing our destination and our abode, and again, while no place in the world is perfect for all reasons, it's nice to reflect on and appreciate the positive things that brought us here and keep us here.
I'm not naive anymore, I'm not looking to change the world, but I am looking to change my life.... And that's why this old guy is here.

Vicces1 wrote:

That said, my comment about negativity was more about an appreciation of our circumstances.

Yes, I got that. I was trying.... badly it seems.... to be humorous.

After all, that is why I did my series of "What is your favorite".

Not a lot of replies on what is the favorite event or place to visit. Maybe a lot of home bodies here.  :sleep  ;)   :top:

Vicces1 wrote:

...... We have the benefit of multiculturalism, of choosing our destination and our abode, and again, while no place in the world is perfect for all reasons, it's nice to reflect on and appreciate the positive things that brought us here and keep us here......

Not trying to be a troll here but Isn't that a bit expat bubble?   The government here is determined to stop multiculturalism it seems  - I refer to the EU refugee quota referendum on 2nd October.   

In the UK, multiculturalism is  almost a dirty word now. It's becoming considered a failed experiment at creating a melting pot.  But it's now all swinging back to type.  They want to make assimilation higher priority and ensure national values replace any other competing system.  i.e. less diversity and less accommodation to different thinking.

Be interesting to see what comes out of the Visegradi meeting going on this week re: the EU.

As ksallee hass replied many times, the expat bubble is what you make it to be. Asking for there not to be a bubble is extremely unrealistic, but we do get to decide how big/strong that bubble is and when to use it to our advantage.

I must respectfully disagree with your assessment that it is multi-culturalism in its entirety that Hungary / Orban bacsi -- and most of Europe -- is fighting against. It is more of a recognition that the current refugee policy is untenable.  And there is a visceral and strong reaction to being told what to do by German fiat.  Did Merkel ask the other nations if they would like to accept refugees? No. She unilaterally made a catastrophic decision to fling open Germany's doors -- a move that is now being rejected by her own political coalition and has had consequences all over Europe, including very likely being at least one major reason for Brexit.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, most countries do not mind relocation from similar faiths and culture -- similar, not exact. The Visegrad tetrad has long historical roots. Hungary doesn't mind a Polish plumber, a Slovak electrician, a Romanian dentist (I say this because my Hungarian friend actually loves her Romanian dentist!) they do mind the forced resettlement of economic migrants (NOT refugees).

Orban bacsi says that he thinks Islamic values are not shared by this Christian nation. Historically, it was Hungary who bore the brunt of Turkish attacks, even losing their capital for circa 150 years (1541 - 1699).  This reaction is understandable in the historical context and I question the responsibility of Europe to take in economic migrants at all.

Anyway, I do not think multi-culturalism is dying; I do agee nationalism is growing (The National Front in France, AfD in Germany, etc.), but I think Europe wants Europe for Europeans and not simply open the border door (and their wallets) for anyone who steps foot in the country, and then because they come from another country then call it multiculturalism.

ksallee - I am a silent observer of your "What is your favorite" series... My Hungarian friends just had a good discussion, for example, on the best toltott kaposzta recipes. ;-)

Keep them coming!

Vicces1 wrote:

.....I must respectfully disagree with your assessment that it is multi-culturalism in its entirety that Hungary / Orban bacsi -- and most of Europe -- is fighting against. It is more of a recognition that the current refugee policy is untenable.  And there is a visceral and strong reaction to being told what to do by German fiat.  Did Merkel ask the other nations if they would like to accept refugees? No. She unilaterally made a catastrophic decision to fling open Germany's doors -- a move that is now being rejected by her own political coalition and has had consequences all over Europe, including very likely being at least one major reason for Brexit. ......not simply open the border door (and their wallets) for anyone who steps foot in the country, and then because they come from another country then call it multiculturalism.

Huge amount in your post so I'll just say just a few things in response.   

Merkel took a gamble to grab people (and their kids) who she could convert into Germans over the longer term.  German has a declining birthrate and has to import people to keep their economy going.  She would have (I hope) weighed up the risks of a 5th column vs net economic benefits.  Germany has many years of experience of these issues with the Turkish community there.  Turkish are somewhat integrated but not more 5th columnists than anyone else.  Hungary already has a strange mix of ethnic groups already  - Bosnians, Egyptians and of course more recently the Chinese. And lets not forget the Roma. 

My US friends tell me that the USA is not actually the melting pot  it's supposed to be but a series of cultural islands - Little Italy, Little Russia (Brighton Beach) etc.  Each to their own.  I'm obviously equating multiculturalism to melting pot here.  We've got the same in the UK but it's considered not to work now and it's creating more problems than its solving.   

BTW, calling Orban bácsi would give him too much  of a friendly flavour and legitimise him possibly.  As in all politicians (and we've covered it elsewhere), demonising the migrants (cf. not refugees) is a way of diverting attention away from other issues of the economy etc.   He's more Nagy Testvér (Big Brother) in this context.   

In any case, Hungary is obliged to do its part as far as refugees are concerned.  It's signatory to the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees which it joined in 1989 - immediately after the fall of the wall.  The stance now is utterly hypocritical considering the history here (1956). It's not as though the EU is asking Hungary to do more than its fair share.  Couple of generations and no-one will know if someone's grandparents came from Syria.

On Brexit, people voted for it because of a variety of reasons. Migration was just one point and an over-emphasised point at that. Many people voted for Brexit because the EU is considered too powerful, interfering, bureaucratic, unelected  and therefore undemocratic.   Unfortunately, no-one was asked to vote for fundamental reform which would have been a good choice.  PM Cameron had no plan because he was actually powerless to override EU decision making.  Which kind of proves the point about why Brexit won.

The world is going nuts, backwards instead of forwards.
I know many stories of my parents growing up in multi-cultural America in the 1920's onwards.
Maybe I come from a open minded liberal background but my family was always excepting of anyone from any race or culture who was a decent person.
My dad was born in Poland, learned English at age 7.
He learned at school with children of other immigrants, Italians, Germans, Russians, Poles Jewish kids all thrown in a class together and everyone learned English from a teacher who didn't know their native languages.
My dad would have dinner at homes of school mates. He was open to trying new dishes etc. having a meal with people he barely could communicate with.
My mom grew up in a Black neighborhood and most of her playmates were black children.
She was raised by her full blooded Mohawk grandmother in Conn. and in the 20's and 30's native Americans were in the same situation as black Americans, no one wanted them in their buildings or in their shops.
I still remember back in Conn. as a 3 or 4 year old. My father's best friend from his job was a black man.
This man would come to our house on Friday night to watch the fights on tv, mom would fix a meal and they would have beers and enjoy the show.
Of course they both knew better then to flaunt their friendship at work, sad how racist things were in the 50's.
Even in the early 1960's my parents had Greek friends and my sister and I both made friends with sisters our ages, two black girls.
Didn't change or take away from us to be open to different  people as long as you have a common interests.
We thought by this time people would not bring up so many hateful differences in others, like I said things are going backwards and tribal.

A few in reply...
Again, I make the point that "Merkel took a gamble" without consultation. She didn't ask other countries bound by the Dublin Accords and the Schengen Agreement if it would be OK to allow unrestricted immigration into her country.  Not to mention she didn't exactly send out a referendum to her own people. This is a European Union, not a "I'll do as I want without consulting anyone else bunch of countries".'

The idea that there is a 5th column is exactly right -- along with the patchwork quilt of the US, not the melting pot so often described. Within European cultures, those who do not integrate become disenchanted and reckless. Belgium, France, the Netherlands, the UK, and Germany alll have minority groups who do not integrate and are forever on the outside. This only creates frustration andd bad behaviors, radicalism, and further problems.  The solution is not to suddenly open your doors to uninterrupted immigration thereby exacerbating an already volatile situation.

The argument of using unrestricted economic migrants to offset decreasing populations is a farce. Populations swing from one side to the other. The US had a "Baby Boom" after WW2, and a declining population in the next generation (yes, offset by immigration, but an immigration of people with a similar culture and mindset).  The following generation increased their fecundity and the current generation is having less.
China, Korea, and Japan have aging populations and poor birth rates.  Their own populations are not screaming to import Africans, Indonesians, and others to offset this disparity. The populations will take care of themselves and do not need a "solution".  Put another way, this is a solution without a true problem. Only theoretical economists require a never-ending increasing population in order to use established economic models. New ones can be created.

In all of my writings, I have never demonized the immigrants. Individual stories of hardship and calamity are rife within many populations.  This does not obligate successful countries to take care of all the people suffering atrocities in the world. Two billion people are destitute in the world today and this number is growing.  Should Europe take them all in and become destitute itself? Losing the hard fought gains of its previous generations in the pursuit of freedom, stability, and quality of life?  My point is that there is tragedy throughout the world, everyone cannot settle in Europe. There are international organizations that need to be used to create the safe places these people need, without setting foot in Europe.  No demonizing needed.

On Brexit, I said immigration was just one of many reasons, we agree there.. And your argument that the British don't like being told what to do by Brussels only strengthens the argument that neither does Hungary or any other country.  Again, there has been very little discussion, much less agreement, on this issue, and where people have been able to have a voice, the clear answer has been that people want less immigration into Europe, not more.  People are frustrated and want their voices heard and the current hierarchy doesn't seem to be getting that message, hence the rise of more radical groups who are exploiting that sentiment.

fluffy2560 wrote:

My US friends tell me that the USA is not actually the melting pot

More like a salad. Where the sum of the parts are better together than the individual pieces alone (with a little oil and vinegar added of course).  ;)

Vicces1 wrote:

She didn't ask other countries bound by the Dublin Accords and the Schengen Agreement if it would be OK to allow unrestricted immigration into her country.  Not to mention she didn't exactly send out a referendum to her own people. This is a European Union, not a "I'll do as I want without consulting anyone else bunch of countries".'

The Hungarian government did not ask other countries in the EU if it was okay when Hungary started its investor residency program, allowing anyone with enough money to get residency in the EU and giving them Schengen travel rights. The Hungarian government did not exactly send out a referendum to its own people about this either.  ;)

Or in other words:

Given two Syrians, each of similar "culture and mindset" between them and thus of equally different "culture and mindset" to Hungarians. One Syrian with $300,000 Euro who invests in Hungarian bonds to get residency, and a Syrian who wants to get residency because he was escaping a war zone. Assume no difference, except for the money. Why is one rejected out of hand and one is accepted automatically?

Maybe it is because the convenient "culture and mindset" issue is just political?  :|

Vicces1 wrote:

Within European cultures, those who do not integrate become disenchanted and reckless.

Painting with a broad brush me thinks.

I am not really all that integrated (I like my bubbles). But neither am I disenchanted and reckless.


Vicces1 wrote:

The US had a "Baby Boom" after WW2, and a declining population in the next generation (yes, offset by immigration, but an immigration of people with a similar culture and mindset).

Immigration by people after WWII to those with a "similar culture and mindset" was due to the National Origins Formula and the McCarran Walter Immigration Act. Which, by the way, excluded immigrants from Hungary.

Hungarian immigration only occurred to the USA by a special congressional exception to take in refuges from the failed 1958 uprising. Even with a strict quota system, the USA still showed some heart, ethics, and morality when it mattered.

Vicces1 wrote:

Hungary .... do mind the forced resettlement of economic migrants (NOT refugees).

I agree. Hungary should have the right to reject such. But, many of the current refugees are valid war refuges. Claiming otherwise is just repeating political propaganda.

Vicces1 wrote:

The following generation increased their fecundity

Because the highest birth rates in the USA are today mostly from non-European ethnic groups which immigrated to the USA after passage of the Hart-Celler Act.   ;)


Vicces1 wrote:

China, Korea, and Japan have aging populations and poor birth rates.  Their own populations are not screaming to import Africans, Indonesians, and others to offset this disparity.

China's birth rate was a consquence of the one child law.
And Japan last year relaxed immigration rules to try to entice immigrants; so maybe not "screaming" for immigrants, at least admitting they need immigrants.


Vicces1 wrote:

The populations will take care of themselves and do not need a "solution".  Put another way, this is a solution without a true problem. Only theoretical economists require a never-ending increasing population in order to use established economic models. New ones can be created.

If one has a declining population, then breeding your way out of it takes decades. In the mean time, and for years, the tax revenue stays low, and the labor force lacks workers. Which means companies may not want to invest in the country since acquiring workers would be too difficult. It also has the effect of raising worker wages (which is great for the workers of course), but then the companies are then also less interested in entering, but even worse, those that are here may not see economic benefit for remaining in the country if wages increase too much. So there are real economic consequences that have been actually played out in this way in different places around the world. So not just "theories".

Meanwhile, taking a realistic view and encouraging at least a stable work force, via immigration or short term work programs, is sound economics. As already said, doing exactly this is what brought Germany from being the old sick man of Europe a few decades ago to the economic powerhouse of the continent.

Vicces1 wrote:

In all of my writings, I have never demonized the immigrants.

True, "demonized" would be too harsh a word, but then there was this comment:

Vicces1 wrote:

Belgium, France, the Netherlands, the UK, and Germany alll have minority groups who do not integrate and are forever on the outside. This only creates frustration andd bad behaviors, radicalism, and further problems.  The solution is not to suddenly open your doors to uninterrupted immigration thereby exacerbating an already volatile situation.



In other words, as I read it, you did not say "some people in a minority group", but you seemed ( :/ ) to imply that everyone in the minority group as being unable to integrate. Again, if I read that correctly, painting with a broad brush me thinks.  ;)  Of course, correct me if I am wrong.

Vicces1 wrote:

Individual stories of hardship and calamity are rife within many populations.  This does not obligate successful countries to take care of all the people suffering atrocities in the world. Two billion people are destitute in the world today and this number is growing.  Should Europe take them all in and become destitute itself? Losing the hard fought gains of its previous generations in the pursuit of freedom, stability, and quality of life?  My point is that there is tragedy throughout the world, everyone cannot settle in Europe.

No one is saying "everyone" needs to settle in Europe. Implying so is obfuscating the discussion by exaggeration.

But of those who specifically ask for help, yes, their case should be considered and reviewed. Maybe it will be rejected after review, but it at least should be properly reviewed. Just as Hungary agreed to do when it agreed to the UN Convention on Refugees, as fluffy2560 already pointed out.

Vicces1 wrote:

On Brexit, I said immigration was just one of many reasons, we agree there..... the clear answer has been that people want less immigration into Europe, not more.

From: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/world … ?ref=world

Mr. Johnson, reflecting concern among campaigners from the “Leave” camp that Mrs. May would water down their victory by negotiating a less-than-full break from Brussels, laid down four red lines: control over immigration from European Union countries....


So the Brexit supports wanted less immigration FROM Europe (i.e. from Poland, Hungary, etc.) not so much about immigration INTO Europe.  :cool:

Vicces1 wrote:

....

In all of my writings, I have never demonized the immigrants......  No demonizing needed.

On Brexit, I said immigration was just one of many reasons, we agree there.. And your argument that the British don't like being told what to do by Brussels only strengthens the argument that neither does Hungary or any other country. ...

Small reply....

Never said you demonised the migrants and if I gave that impression, I shouldn't have done.  Sorry.  I meant to say Orban is demonising for his own ends - i.e. forthcoming referendum.

Speaking of which, Hungary can have a referendum on EU membership as well.   Now I just said that,  I suddenly wondered if Orban's strategy will be to use a winning result (for him) of the 2nd October referendum as a springboard to launch another referendum on HU's membership of the EU? Is there mood for HUexit hereabouts?  I don't think there is here because HU receives bucket loads of money from  Brussels. He might be even a 5th columnist looking for re-engagement with Putinland.

klsallee wrote:
fluffy2560 wrote:

My US friends tell me that the USA is not actually the melting pot

More like a salad. Where the sum of the parts are better together than the individual pieces alone (with a little oil and vinegar added of course).  ;)

Ah, to make it consistent it needs a good shake too.  Once all the pieces are equally coated, then the main flavour dominates with some nuances of the  differing ingredients.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Ah, to make it consistent it needs a good shake too.

Bad me. I stir both my salads and my Vodka Martinis.....  :(

You keep mentioning an ex pat bubble
I don't see it as a bubble necessarily.  I am an incomer so I believe that I would live my life differently than a local person.  I have met Hungarians who are depressed and miserable but there are depressed and miserable people everywhere.
Even in England i choose who I hang out with and my own interests..
So no bubble just a different way of life.

anns wrote:

You keep mentioning an ex pat bubble

A bubble is just a way of measuring how much you interact with the local society and culture in which you live. Many people in their own countries live in a bubble as well. The expat bubble might be measured by (not an inclusive list):

- Do you speak the local language?
- Do you interact in social events that do not include other expats?
- Are your co-workers mostly/exclusively local nationals?
- Do you keep current with social, political and economic issues in your adopted country?

If you said "No" to any of the above, like it or not, you might live in a bit of an expat bubble.

But, and this is a very important "but", there is nothing wrong with living in a bubble. It is just what you make of it. ;)

anns wrote:

You keep mentioning an ex pat bubble
I don't see it as a bubble necessarily.  I am an incomer so I believe that I would live my life differently than a local person.  ....

I think this "bubble" refers to those who come to HU on a company package, with expat schools, private medical care, associate with only their workmates and intend to stay only 2-3 years.  Therefore they tend to live in a different reality  to the rest of us who are in for the longer term (own houses/property, run own business, local partners, kids in local schools,  higher cultural assimilation etc).

Well in that case I will keep bubbling along.  I am just here to chill and enjoy.

anns wrote:

.... I am just here to chill ....

As of this morning, it's chill indeed.  Heavens seem to have opened.

Well I hope it is raining ☔ on my country garden and I also hope this isn't the end of summer.
Unless I had a good work package as detailed above,  I would not have come to Hungary to work.  Also it is  a difficult place to start a business because of the tax situation.  But it is as good as anywhere for families and retired people.

Vicces1 wrote:

Sorry ksallee, I've been travelling.
https://www.internations.org/expat-insider/

Finally had time to review this survey.

It is a web survey, not a statistically valid sample. So, not really that useful in general. And it seems to be a survey of internations.org members (or those that knew of this site), which is also a subsample of expats (I for example, did not even know this site existed until now, so was outside of their survey).

I concentrated on and looked mostly at the financial topics (it is what I do), and those tended to show also a bias for expats as employees. While the report stated it divided the data into the type of expat (student versus foreign assignee), the data presented did not seem to give this data per country (comment caveat: but I did not do a 100% detailed review of the results). It would have been more informative if this report has provided more data about respondents in each country as to their type of expat status so people within each class could relate their particular economic status with those of the respondents in each country so future expats could directly relate to this survey. Without such a more direct link, I find the report very lacking overall.

In other words, without more fine grain data about the respondents, this report may be misleading. For example, for a potential expat student to rely on this report if most of the respondents in a country were professional assignees (i.e. those in a different economic class than the student), it might spell disaster. And for that reason, and others, I can not endorse this report.

I like the fact that it sparked your curiosity and added to the conversation.
:D

Another article....Food for thought....
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201609 … for-expats

Very interesting article.  Never ever thought of going there.

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