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MOVING and STARTING A BUSINESS IN BALI-

HI, I live in Croatia and have a company for kids education with LEGO bricks, 3d pens etc..I am thinking of moving to Bali and starting my business there. I have 5 apartments in Croatia that I will rent for cca. 1500 Euros a month all together. Is that enough for start for 3 people(me,girlfriend and my brother) to live in Bali  since I dont want to be stressed with having to have significant income from my business but rather develop it slowly. I intend to work with international schools and kindergartens. Any advice,thoughts?Thank you

If in your shoes I’d be thinking more along the lines of “can I support my business relying on private sector education?”  If you limit yourself only to Bali, I think that will be difficult.  You’ll need the public education sector as well.  That means that you’ll need an Indonesian partner who is high up in the field of education here in Indonesia.

You will need to set up a PT size company, and the minimum investment for them is pretty significant (check on the internet).

The most difficult part for all of you is to get a work permit. Without one you can not legally work and generate income.

As Roy said, you probably will need to set up your own PT PMA.

thx for a quick reply..I work on contracts with schools here so I was hoping to be like an outside partner or. sth. like that. I dont intend to rent spaces and things along that line..so I ll be looking to have partner rather than to open a company in Indonesia..I dont know will that be possible..

happyhour :

The most difficult part for all of you is to get a work permit. Without one you can not legally work and generate income.

As Roy said, you probably will need to set up your own PT PMA.

thx for the reply...thats why I am thinking of joining with someone that is already there ...I have reed that it is possible to buy existing PT..

but more general question: Is it possible for three people to live on 1500 euros on Bali?

It's not just easy like that to buy an existing PT if at all...... Then the business license of the company must be conform with your business activity also it must have enough paid up capital stated in the company deeds to be able to apply a work permit for one foreigner (you are even 3 people)

I doubt that you 3 can live with Euro 1.500 but others like Roy may know better since he is living on Bali.

I understand what you are saying..I see some web sites offering sponsor that they provide.. So I guess the best bet would be to team up with an expat or a local that owns a company there already..Wonder if he could then employ me and get the visa that way.

As has been said, you have problems.
As a self employed person you must open a PT business, and that isn't cheap.
I think PT PMA companies require a minimum investment is Rp10 billion (Something over US$700,000 - check the exchange rate for an accurate number).

Don't know what web sites offering the service to sponsor your visa.....bear in mind that a visa is only allowing you to stay here for certain period of time but it is not allowing you to work in any form.

Teaming up with a local PT means they will have to employ you and obtain the approval from Ministry of Manpower to apply for your work permit (IMTA).

If they get it then you afterwards also get the limited stay permit (KITAS) valid according to your IMTA.

goran84 :

Wonder if he could then employ me and get the visa that way.

Probably not.
Employment requires skills that aren't available from the local workforce.

Unless you have a sack of cash to invest, your chances of working here legally are slim.

****

Not to discourage you, but opening a business in Bali is a long procedure and rather expensive. The cost of opening (officially registering etc until legally allowed to work) is around 70 million idr which is about 5000 euro+ working KITAS is around 2000usd per year per person

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The cost you mentioned are probably for paying the consultant/agent fee doing it for you from A-Z.

Still you have to put huge amount of money to have enough capital in the deeds

Kate Akatyeva :

working KITAS is around 2000usd per year per person

Only if he gets royally ripped off.
A KITAS  is a lot closer to US$100. 

This gives details

http://www.imigrasi.go.id/index.php/en/ … -term-stay

Watch out for people trying to overcharge.

Fred, official fee for a KITAS is more than USD 100 for sure.

Her price of USD 2.000 is on the very high side but people keep complaining about it (knowing official fee) but want a third party to handle it at same price or for peanuts.

So they just have to do themselves very simple.

Point is also in what period of time all is done, whether or not work permit arrangement is included or not.

How long you will have to be without your passport.....what is the service worth if you on the other side can use your precious time for other activities?

The agent who use is licensed to deal with Depnaker and Immigration or not?

There are many factors to take into consideration in my point of view

happyhour :

Fred, official fee for a KITAS is more than USD 100 for sure.
.

http://www.indonesianembassy.org.uk/con … _fees.html

happyhour :

So they just have to do themselves very simple.

No, just shop around for a reasonable deal.

happyhour :

Point is also in what period of time all is done, whether or not work permit arrangement is included or not.

The suggestion was $2K for a $100 KITAS.
Either it's a lot of money to charge or the poster is unable to explain their service well.
Doesn't really matter as both would put me off using them.

As I said before, it also depends on various other factors. Certainly you just pay the official fee if you do all by yourself, have the time and energy for doing it.

Work permit included or not is the other issue, for 6 month or probably 12 month it depends.

Spouse sponsored.....well you are supposed to not work instead have all the time to arrange the papers by yourself.

I said before....her price is on the very high side and you will find agents doing it at lower level.

Just make sure they are fully licensed and know what they are talking about.

Don't just look and compare the official figures with having an agent doing it for you and expext more or less same price.

happyhour :

Don't just look and compare the official figures with having an agent doing it for you and expext more or less same price.

True, but about 20 times the fee is a big mark up.
The rest of your post isn't of interest as the poster concerned stated her fee for a KITAS, mentioning other fees were payable.

Kate Akatyeva :

****

The cost of opening (officially registering etc until legally allowed to work) is around 70 million idr which is about 5000 euro+ working KITAS is around 2000usd per year per person

Before getting bogged down in pointless stuff, perhaps it should be noted the OP is unlikely to be able to do it anyway as his suggested financial position is too weak.

OK...TO SUM IT UP..ITS EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE TO OPEN A COMPANY AND THE COUNTRY ITSELF IS CORRUPTED...DEFINITELY DECIDED NOT TO INVEST THEN..THX

goran84 :

OK...TO SUM IT UP..ITS EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE TO OPEN A COMPANY AND THE COUNTRY ITSELF IS CORRUPTED...DEFINITELY DECIDED NOT TO INVEST THEN..THX

Dude, lose the caps lock, please.

Expensive ... yes. The rules are designed to bring investment that will help Indonesians, not allow foreigners an easy ticket to live here.

Corrupt, A lot less than before but the mentions are of a company that appears to be very expensive, not corruption.
Indonesia still has a corruption issue but that's getting less so every day, a great credit to this country.

Your accusation is unfair and unjustified.

I apologize for the cap locks...seem silly to have a capital of 700,000$ to open a business where the avg. salary is 500$..by that rationale you would need a 2-3 million dollar capital to invest in any EU country compared to avg. income...I think its an idiotic protective system by the government since I would employ locals...

I don't always like the rules, but they were put in place to avoid Bali and other popular destinations being over run with foreign hairdressers and surf instructors who would take work from locals.
Sadly, and you won't like this, the same applies to small private schools.
There are too many locally run ones already here, so a foreign run one would only harm the local businesses.

I dont want to open a school..I do educational workshops with LEGO, MAkey Makey, 3d doodlers etc. that enhances interest in S.T.E.M among children ...my intention was to work in school as after school activities..but since I have all the equipment needed I dont intend to invest 700k US for nth.....the only reason I had interest in moving to Bali is real estate in Croatia that I can rent and get around 1000 euros per month for them which would make life much easier in Bali

Whilst your intentions seem good, Indonesian law won't allow it as there are lots of local people with many educational ideas.

As I said, the immigration rules are designed to protect locals and their businesses, so foreigners come second.

You can't blame the Indonesian government for that - It's their job.

You or better the company will have to declare your income if RPTKA and work permit is approved.

You will not get along declaring 500 Euro as your income as a foreigner that's probably less than a local could earn doing the same.....however, now you said Euro 1.000 but before Euro 500/person

As far as I know a min salary would be about USD 1.500 which somehow is min to be taxable.

Out of curiourity, have you visit/spend time in Indonesia before?

Yeah , I have a friend in Vietnam which I visited ...my girlfriend inherited 2 apartments that she will rent so our budget increased...I am not interested in debating the right or wrong of Indonesian government...its obviously highly protective market that does not allow easy investment unless its Nike sweatshops ...my question is and I have asked again...whats the average income a person can live on on Bali (excluding rent)

Probably you also misunderstood how things work in here, what regulations are in place.

Average income for the locals one can tell but not for the foreigners it depends on the work agreement/contract you have with the sponsoring company.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/ci … rrency=EUR

It states here: Average Monthly Disposable Salary (Net After Tax)    246.78 €   

So I dont understand 1500 US as average pretax salary

I understand what you are saying...my hypothetical question is :

If I want to live in Bali and spend my time writing and swimming without being employed, what is the income needed for a normal life (cooking at home and eating local food etc..)

See it this way, a lot of locals live a village life with not much by way of comforts for less than Rp1 million per month.
Middle class locals commonly take home Rp3 to 8 million per month and manage fine. Many have cars, but always on long term credit and many own reasonable homes, but often take a very long time to pay for them.
Most of these have little social life because they have too much to pay out every month.
10 million and a motorbike instead of a car can do you very nicely if you don't hit the bars.

You just follow what info you get on the net and believe in it.

It seems to me that you just don't want to believe what others are advising instead knowing things better.

You have not even replied my question to you before so obviously you just wait until someone is telling you here something what you want to hear.

Good luck

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