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Ludicrous New immigration rule. Can only work for 1 employer with WP!

Im getting so much conflicting information here about this, but basically you can only work at one employer, no matter how few the hours.
Ergo, most teachers will have to work illegally, quit Vietnam, all schools wont be able to legally hire anyone except massive chain schools.

I have a meeting with immigration on Friday , if they even attempt to enforce this, bye-bye vietscam, hello China again, my old friend....

Im also concerned  the deeply, deeply corrupt immigration officials in Quy Nhon are being paid to do this by the equally corrupt bosses of certain schools.

Anyone else have any news?

While enforcement may have traditionally been lax, you have just discovered what has always been the case.  Take a little time to read your work permit.  It is a permit to work for one and only one employer.  It sounds like perhaps your employer is blowing the whistle on you with immigration in Quy Nhon.  That may be a low blow but probably not illegal on their part.

Yes, but is that to say you cannot have multiple work-permits? It's very easy once you have the first one , surely?

Also, I have read tht other employrs can just put their name on the same one, whether they wish to do so is much more doubtful.

Try a little reverse psychology.

There are more ways than one to skin the cat...

An employer is not going to go through the hassle of arranging a WP for someone with limited hours. As the law stands, you must have a WP for each employer, which is a nightmare. To be honest, look for another job with more hours.

Not sure what country the OP is from, but the same applies in my mother country. Your employer is your host in this country, your tender, etc. Only stands to reason your WP would apply to just one sponsor.

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone working and living in Vietnam.

To be clear, I'm on a dn visa. They said I can only work for 1 centre that got me the approval from da Nang.

They cannot provide enough hours, nor would I want to work solely for them. Same goes for all employers here.

I wouldn't be surprised if some centres r calling in favors to put the rash of new competition out of biz, stop teachers moonlighting etc.

If I go to Saigon, go to the local labour dept here, get a work permit - I presume it is tied to same employer as dn visa?

The goal posts move so often, it's hard to keep track of it. I first came to VN on a business visa in 2008, in 2009 I applied for a work permit under another company. You really need to see a lawyer in the city you want to work, or go and see the Labour department as you mentioned before.

Thaiger :

Yes, but is that to say you cannot have multiple work-permits? It's very easy once you have the first one , surely?

Also, I have read tht other employrs can just put their name on the same one, whether they wish to do so is much more doubtful.

You really answered your own question above.  You can seek employment at other schools and hold more than one permit at a time.  I never did it as my school provided me with more hours than I wanted to work, but I have been told by a lawyer and other teachers that it is relatively inexpensive to secure a permit at a second school as the authorities do allow you to bring over the information such as your qualifications and physical from the first permit. 

If you find that potential second employers do not wish to pull a second permit for you, that may speak more to their lack of commitment to you than to their ability to do so.

Thaiger :

They cannot provide enough hours, nor would I want to work solely for them. Same goes for all employers here.

Your posts seem a little agitated to say the least.  Perhaps the potential employers can sense your attitude.  Try not to have a chip on your shoulder.

Thaiger :

If I go to Saigon, go to the local labour dept here, get a work permit - I presume it is tied to same employer as dn visa?

You don't just go to the labor department for a permit.  Look at line 6 of your permit.  It has the name of the school.  It is a permit to work at that school only and is not so much your permit for you to work as much as it is the school's permit to hire you.   If you study the process, the school is submitting the application on your behalf.  If you go to Saigon to work for another school, you will need another permit but first you must have an offer of employment.  You can seek employment on any visa, you just can't necessarily work.  I held a VEC when I was first hired and had to make a statement of self support for the period prior to my first employment.  I am not sure about this but if you find another job you may need to leave to Cambodia and reenter to activate a new dn.  Also once you have a work permit, it is usually best to obtain a work related Temporary Residency Card before your dn expires.  This is a related but separate process.

Russin  and Vecchi Lawyers

The work permit requirement applies equally to both expatriates working for the commercial presence of a foreign entity as well as expatriates working for a Vietnamese entity. A work permit is specific to an employer or Vietnamese counterparty. If an expatriate wishes to work concurrently for another employer in Vietnam, even if his current work permit is valid, he must obtain another work permit.

I've never had a work permit yet, so cant read it....

The whole process is remarkably similar to china.

I was informed if I want to work for the school that isnt the one that first got me the approval letter for the DN visa, I would have to go back to Kampuchea and do the DN again ....If i tell them....otherwise carry on with the present sponsor.....or at least say so.

The reason they met me this morning is so I cant claim I didnt know and so they can fine me 20 mill, not 1 mill.

ThaiGV - They told me after I get my WP, I can change my DN to LB in DaNang (as u say - the employer should do all this), THEN apply for a TRC!!??

A few days earlier they told my friend he must go to Kampuchea to change a DN to LB first!!!?

I hope this all helps others trying t

They were absolutely insistent u can only work for one employer, contrary to laws I read and links/ posts from this site itself.....

Not sure if they r correct, utterly clueless, or in the pockets of some schools.  Welcome to the nam man!

Also, they have info on everyone, proppa big bro stuff. Even old retired married guys doing privates. Know the location, times, the whole shebang.

Wonder if when, HOW? They will do about it??

You made a conscious choice to move from your home at the center of modern Europe to one of the five remaining Communist states in the world.  Why are you surprised when you find that things are the way they are?   Its not a question of right or wrong.  It is one of being realistic.

Thaiger :

Also, they have info on everyone, proppa big bro stuff. Even old retired married guys doing privates. Know the location, times, the whole shebang.

Wonder if when, HOW? They will do about it??

When you live in Viet Nam, your ward police will keep a file on you as you are a foreigner. Most of the info is gained through your neighbours,who just can't resist going to the police to do their civil duty. That's why the police hardly move from their office, the info comes to them as dobbing/ gossiping is a national pastime. You will hear the term "Bà tâm" which means gossip woman, there is a very good reason as to how they get this name.

It's not only in Vietnam but many countries follow this rule. Your employer is you sponsor in such country where which they are responsible for your acts. Gulf countries follows strict rules on foreign workers. If you are not satisfied with the laws then you have many options :D

You should feel lucky that you have a job to teach in Vietnam. You are basically taking a job of another Vietnamese teacher who would have not bitch and complain about something simple as this. This is the result of having a little too much freedom without fear of consequences.

Some people clearly have reading difficulties......

Im here because there is a market for me. A local would clearly not have to undergo the work permit process like me. Duh.

Colinoscapee, Im aware of the horrendous gossiping danwei system,but I mean literally how will the bust u? kick in the doors mid-class? Do they even need any kind of proof?what if u r teaching at another place than ur own?

Thaiger :

if they even attempt to enforce this, bye-bye vietscam, hello China again, my old friend....

Im also concerned  the deeply, deeply corrupt immigration officials in Quy Nhon are being paid to do this by the equally corrupt bosses of certain schools.

Anyone else have any news?

Link

I generally offer the same advice to any guest in any country that hate the place they move to in an attempt to make cash.

The link gives details.

Thaiger :

I've never had a work permit yet, so cant read it....

You seem to be working illegally.
You also mention you have CELTA, suggesting you're teaching English, but I understand Vietnam requires you to be a native speaker in order to work legally, and your profile says you aren't.

Perhaps posters more familiar with local laws can confirm this.

1. You can have multiple work permits with different employers. In fact you have to have multiple work permits if you work for more than 1 employer. I applied second work permit for several clients in Ho Chi Minh City therefore I can tell.

2. You do not have to be a native speaker to teach English. I also applied work permit for Philippine, Singapore teachers, therefore I can tell.

3.  If you enter Vietnam with DN Visa sponsor by company A, then after that company A can convert it to LD visa for you after obtaining your work permit. Immigration department explains that because your purpose of entering did not change, prove by the same sponsor.
If you are sponsored to enter Vietnam by company A under DN Visa, but then obtaining a work permit under company B, they consider you changed your entering purpose, so that you have to exit Vietnam to apply for a LD visa sponsored by company B to comeback working in Vietnam. 

There is no legal basic for this practice. They implement it as a flexible practice for company A and its employees, to avoid going in and out the country.

I guess your case is not that you are not allowed to work for more than 1 company. That is, if you work for company A who sponsor your DN Visa, you do not have to exit Vietnam to convert it to LD visa. But if you do not want to work for company A, then just apply for a work permit under company B, then exit Vietnam to convert your current DN Visa to a LD Visa. If you do not want to work for Company A ONLY, then obtain work permit and LD Visa under Company A first, no further request. After having such LD Visa, you apply to work for another company, say Company B, then Company B will apply your second work permit. The LD Visa is issued to you personally, not to the company, so that you do not have to apply for a new visa when you have new work permit with a different company.

That just the procedure, not a prohibition.

P/s: There is no Vietnamese go to police department to gossip about their neighbors. Actually we try to avoid to be in touch with the police and authority as much as we can. Police = trouble.

An excellent summary again from Ms Van.  I fear that Mr Thaiger's problem is not that he cannot get a WP from company B, it is that B does not want to hire him.  And neither does C, D, E.  If you walk around spoiling for a fight, that is what you will find.

How good is it to read a valid post..?       

Many thanks, Van who Can...                :happy:

Van  Khanh Ho , exactly right! And exactly what I'm doing.

Wish you could tell the local immigration police who are insistent that u can only have 1 work permit.!!

I know my posts online r a bit feckless but a lot of the assumptions about me r way off

P/s: There is no Vietnamese go to police department to gossip about their neighbors. Actually we try to avoid to be in touch with the police and authority as much as we can. Police = trouble.

When your neighbour is a foreigner it's a different story, trust me, the neighbours keep the ward police very well informed. Outside of the major cities the police are still functioning on the old mentality.

What happens if you get caught working without a visa at a school? Does this realistically happen?

Equally the economy of VN. that we know is a mostly cash economy because everyone knows what you are just discovering. Where you want to work for someone else for Dong, establish a fee and do so. Where you have a corrupt immigration official, or you suspect a corrupt situation, report to you own embassy. Watch your back.

colinoscapee :
Thaiger :

Also, they have info on everyone, proppa big bro stuff. Even old retired married guys doing privates. Know the location, times, the whole shebang.

Wonder if when, HOW? They will do about it??

When you live in Viet Nam, your ward police will keep a file on you as you are a foreigner. Most of the info is gained through your neighbours,who just can't resist going to the police to do their civil duty. That's why the police hardly move from their office, the info comes to them as dobbing/ gossiping is a national pastime. You will hear the term "Bà tâm" which means gossip woman, there is a very good reason as to how they get this name.

In the USA, we have something similar called"Neighborhood Watch." Note, "Neighborhood Watch" is a much less powerful than "Bà tâm" because of the large number of working wives and the fact that grandparents normally do not live in their children's household.

VanKhanh Ho :

1.

P/s: There is no Vietnamese go to police department to gossip about their neighbors. Actually we try to avoid to be in touch with the police and authority as much as we can. Police = trouble.

Sorry to disagree. But, while many Vietnamese may not want contact with the Police, it is preposterous to say that all Vietnamese avoid contact with Police. The Vietnamese are not mindless and identically thinking robots. The Vietnamese are a diverse and intellectually varied group.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/societ … olice.html

People will be allowed to record traffic violations for the first time, in an attempt to increase road safety awareness.
People can record traffic violations and inform police, social news, vietnamnet bridge, english news, Vietnam news, news Vietnam, vietnamnet news, Vietnam net news, Vietnam latest news, vn news, Vietnam breaking news
With the support of local residents, traffic offences will be detected and settled more quickly.

This is in accordance with a new government decree that takes effect in August.
Traffic police will verify the violations recorded by the people and then punish the violators.
The new decree seeks to enhance the close links between citizens and local authorities, helping people to have more say in law enforcement, an official of the Directorate for Road of Vietnam said.
Traffic police have installed surveillance cameras on some roads, but cannot monitor all violations. With the support of local residents, traffic offences will be detected and settled more quickly, the official said.
Lawyer Pham Hong Son, head of Pham Son Law Office, said this was a positive measure and would help increase people’s awareness about traffic laws and their compliance.
“The society will become better when all people share the responsibility of supervising traffic violations in particular and law violations in general as nobody wants their mistakes recorded,” Son told the Economics and Urban newspaper.
People who record a traffic offence can report the incident to local traffic offices or contact the Traffic Police Department via hotline 069.2342608 or email: tccs-c67[at]vnn.vn.
The identity of the person informing the traffic police will be kept confidential.
Under Decree 46/2016/NĐ-CP, recently issued by Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, stricter fines will be imposed for some traffic violations to ensure road and rail traffic safety.
Accordingly, the penalty for driving with blood alcohol exceeding 80mg per 100ml of blood, or 0.4mg per litre of breath, will be increased from VNĐ10 million-VNĐ15 million ($445-670) to VNĐ16 million-VNĐ18 million ($710-800).
The driving licences of those who are found with drugs in their system will be revoked for 22 to 24 months or they will be fined VNĐ16 million-VNĐ18 million if they do not have a driving licence or it has already been suspended.
The decree also introduces a new regulation under which those who steer their vehicles with their feet will incur a fine of VNĐ7 million-VNĐ8 million ($310-360).
The same penalty will apply to speeding and reckless driving.
Violators who refuse to stop their vehicles following a police order or cause road accidents will face a penalty of VNĐ18 million-VNĐ20 million (up to $880).

Everyone has a price in Vietnam and can easily be bought. Laws are written for authorities to earn extra cash. Much of these jungle laws have no merits or logic associated to them. My Benjamins will outbid Uncle HO every time wherever I go in Vietnam.

70 years old :
colinoscapee :
Thaiger :

Also, they have info on everyone, proppa big bro stuff. Even old retired married guys doing privates. Know the location, times, the whole shebang.

Wonder if when, HOW? They will do about it??

When you live in Viet Nam, your ward police will keep a file on you as you are a foreigner. Most of the info is gained through your neighbours,who just can't resist going to the police to do their civil duty. That's why the police hardly move from their office, the info comes to them as dobbing/ gossiping is a national pastime. You will hear the term "Bà tâm" which means gossip woman, there is a very good reason as to how they get this name.

In the USA, we have something similar called"Neighborhood Watch." Note, "Neighborhood Watch" is a much less powerful than "Bà tâm" because of the large number of working wives and the fact that grandparents normally do not live in their children's household.

Yes we also have neighborhood watch in Australia, but they don't contact the police when a foreigner is moving into a Vietnamese family home, as they did when my brother moved to Saigon.

Sorry Col: Truth is stranger than fiction.

I was witness to a 'SWAT' Team forcing entry to a house in inner-city Brisbane.                                         ..where 'illegal immigrants' were   (suspected of) living..?   
Turned out to be the next-door neighbour's paranoid boyfriend
(who happened to be a lawyer)  notifying 'authorities'.   
  Enquiries after the event led nowhere.

No warning.  No knock on the door.  Front door forced entry, back door was open.

And yes, they were dressed in black, boots, armoured vests, guns strapped to their thighs, (which scared the living daylights out of everyone in the house)  (and me)   ..entering simultaneously front and back, shouting, the whole (American copy?) drug-bust scenario. 

     The (former) Filipina? family had been there for almost six months and had applied for (since granted) permanent residence.   Only husband & wife, 2 small children there.

I often wonder how the children remember that day.

  What annoys me (still) is that nothing was offered in explanation, nor was there any form of apology besides the gruff 'suspected illegal immigrants'  AFTER their passports were scrutinised.   

Neighbourhood watch?   I prefer to live in Vietnam.

colinoscapee :

When your neighbour is a foreigner it's a different story, trust me, the neighbours keep the ward police very well informed. Outside of the major cities the police are still functioning on the old mentality.

colinoscapee :

Yes we also have neighborhood watch in Australia, but they don't contact the police when a foreigner is moving into a Vietnamese family home, as they did when my brother moved to Saigon.

Two good points, well worth reposting

beachrunner :

What happens if you get caught working without a visa at a school? Does this realistically happen?

Working anywhere you don't have a WP is illegal. If you're teaching at another center, both you and the center could be fined. If you're teaching in your (or someone else's) home, you will be fined.

The fine is the least that could happen. Depending on the situation, you could also face deportation. Tread carefully, now that you've gone to immigration, you cannot feign ignorance. Now that you're on their radar you should be really careful.

There was a fella not long ago on this forum that was immediately deported...and he had a family here, as I recall. Supper..and you can't come back.

Why does it surprise (anyone?)

..that 'They' (all) read these forums..?       :unsure

Best logic I've seen here. Thank you.

My sister is a teacher in VN. We are aware that competition for good jobs is so terrible that paying bribes for positions is common. So much for regulatory conversations. Coming from the western world and expecting western values/binding laws is something that hopefully will protect people here in the future. Operative word is hope. Being conducive and ready for financial growth here does not mean a light switch effect for legal justice. Anyone else care to comment? I wish I were wrong.
Mac

So that the we can have some perspective on the OP's original complaint, I looked up what is required for a non-Schengen person to obtain a work permit in Belgium. 

Work permit type B
Characteristics:
    Maximum validity period: one year
    Valid for only one employer (italics mine)
    Employer has to submit the application
For most non-EU nationals, a work permit type B is only granted for special categories of work (mostly in the context of training and posting of workers).
Special categories
highly qualified workers
    who pay social contributions
    and whose yearly gross salary in 2010 was higher than 38'665 EUR (2013)

Source:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_permit_(Belgium)

Also note that the permit is for one year while the VN work permit is for two.  In sum, the restrictions that the OP's country would place on a highly skilled worker from a non-EU country are as tight or tighter than those that Vietnam would place on the OP.  I am also a little familiar with H1B visas in the US as when I took a job, I had a person that I had to carry on my payroll already employed.  I know that the visa must be renewed annually and the cost of all fees is well over $1000 every year, more if you use a lawyer which is almost a necessity.  People do have a valid complaint in Vietnam about semi-opaque regulations and uneven administration but the basic permitting structure for foreign labor is certainly no worse than any developed country.  The term ludicrous may not be appropriate.

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