To those who have been living in Saigon for a while now...

It's hard to answer as everyone is different. I lived in Saigon for 5 years, but the traffic and the pollution were good reasons to leave. The other thing was the attitude of the locals on the roads, it's a don't give a damn attitude. Saigon is a good place to get a feel for living in VN, but I much prefer the smaller cities.

Yep, we're all different, but we can sometimes identify with someone else's experience. I get what you say. Thanks for taking the time!

JByron wrote:

Thailand has gotten more strict towards foreigners, creating a company is difficult and expensive,...

If you were specific about the type of business you were interested in establishing that might elicit a response from someone in or trying to get started in the same.  I never tried to start a company in Vietnam, but I certainly don't recall anyone saying it was easy except perhaps on paper.

I started a business back in 2008, would I do it again, No. Constant harrassment from the police, VAT office, Tax Department and other government agencies. I also found the staff to be lazy and dishonest, not to mention all the equipment they stole from me. Some people here have  a great business, but there are very few laws to protect you, and you are at the mercy of the locals and government. About 50,000 businesses cease operation every year, there are many reasons for this, one is bad planning and not doing due diligence. Get a local as your partner, someone who you can trust, not easy to find here.

I've always felt welcome in Vietnam. the people are really nice and friendly.

panda7 wrote:

I've always felt welcome in Vietnam. the people are really nice and friendly.

Agree, the locals are great socially, but doing business and dealing with the government is a nightmare.

People's biggest mistake here is to expect the Vietnamese locals to have the same attitude as yours regardless if it's in business or whatever else. Everyone needs to assimilate into local custom and culture if they choose to live in a foreign land. This is the similar to the Hispanics living in the U.S. The majority of Hispanics do not want to learn English and won't bother assimilating into the U.S culture, thus causes hatred and prejudice from white folks (mainly). But in this case the Vietnamese don't really care what you do or think of them. They just keep on trucking. I used to complain and bitch about how different and backwards these Vietnamese were, but now I don't give a rat ass about what they do. I have become one of them. This is all good until I move back to the states in the future then I need to re-assimilate into the other world.

I have been living in Vietnam since 1999, never looked back since.. There is plenty of opportunities for the ones who know how to seize it...
Of course it's not a perfect country and has its downside like any other country, but at the end of the day, it's all good. The quality of life is good, and it's not as westernized as Thailand..
If you can't take the pollution or the peoples, the beaches or the countryside is a bus trip away.
As for business and administration, what would you expect from someone making couple hundreds dollars a month salary, sure they would make it harder on you, but you would be surprise how 50$ and some social skills can change things, and make any process go smoothly.
Laws and the country are constantly changing here, and it goes fast.

Starting a new venture and succeed is not easy (here or anywhere), if it was, everybody would be doing it.

Have a look around the site, there are a couple of recent threads in which people have been honest about their experiences in Vietnam. Some of it makes interesting reading.

I wouldn't put anyone off coming here but I would tell people to be cautious until they find their feet.

Matt what we should be telling people is that everything is so easy, that way we could wear our rose coloured glasses like some other posters. Most of my VN friends have the same gripes, it seems they just haven't assimilated yet.

Acoco wrote:

I have been living in Vietnam since 1999, never looked back since.. There is plenty of opportunities for the ones who know how to seize it...
Of course it's not a perfect country and has its downside like any other country, but at the end of the day, it's all good. The quality of life is good, and it's not as westernized as Thailand..
If you can't take the pollution or the peoples, the beaches or the countryside is a bus trip away.
As for business and administration, what would you expect from someone making couple hundreds dollars a month salary, sure they would make it harder on you, but you would be surprise how 50$ and some social skills can change things, and make any process go smoothly.
Laws and the country are constantly changing here, and it goes fast.

Starting a new venture and succeed is not easy (here or anywhere), if it was, everybody would be doing it.

So you've been living here since 1999, but register in March 2016 living Croatia,yeah right.

colinoscapee wrote:

Matt what we should be telling people is that everything is so easy, that way we could wear our rose coloured glasses like some other posters. Most of my VN friends have the same gripes, it seems they just haven't assimilated yet.

Colin, maybe we should just give up and go home, after all, we are not needed as managers, trainers  and technicians - and financiers. And even if we were needed we have no right to comment on the things that affect us directly whilst living here.

To warn other expats of thieves and pick pockets is "crying and whining" according to the odd troll that passes by. And we aren't allowed to do that in case people learn the truth and are able to take steps to guard themselves against being the target of thieves.

Vietnam is a stand alone country. The aircraft they fly for their airline are all invented, designed and made in Vietnam. The ships that they build are all invented, designed and built in Vietnam; the roads they build and the bridges they construct are all products of Vietnams home grown expertise.

The new water system recently installed in Saigon was completely invented, designed and built in Vietnam. The solar water heaters that you see springing up on the roofs of Vietnams houses were invented, designed and built in Vietnam.

All the cars driving the streets of Vietnam were invented, designed and built in Vietnam, likewise the motorcycles, bicycles and trucks.

As of course is the major pollution that they have recently produced to kill fish throughout the South China Sea; the poisoning of almost the entire Mekong Delta's water reserves and the pollution of all their rivers and canals.

There are may more things that could be mentioned, but we are not allowed to mention them. Sacred cows and all that. Bloody good job that this isn't a Hindu country, eh? But..... SSsssh, not allowed to raise anything as an issue for discussion.

Vietnam is developing, but until someone said, "hey, we need a road, bridge, airliner, water supply, water heating, drugs etc etc, there was bugger all. And yes, Vietnam produces a helluva lot, but they do, increasingly, it in cooperation with international organisations - and expats.

We expats bring a lot to the table but according to an uneducated but vociferous minority, we are allowed no platform for our opinions, nor are we allowed to pass on our experiences to others.

What we have here is someone who just wants to be argumentative and difficult. A person for whom discussion is about unintellectual conflict and the use of personal polemics. Sad, but thats life. As I said in another post, don't feed the trolls.

Meanwhile, healthy discourse continues on websites like this with like-minded expats and professionals, despite the bleatings of a small sample of the supporters of national stultification, retarded development and assistance to the pilferrati at large.

colinoscapee wrote:

So you've been living here since 1999, but register in March 2016 living Croatia,yeah right.

I actually first came in 95, went back, served in the army in Croatia/Bosnia.. and came back to Nam in 1999 indefinitely, but I already told you that, didn't I ..  and for you the registration date on expat.com is supposed to prove something  ? ... Never go full retard Colin, again you are going full retard.
You should praise Vietnam, for giving loser like you another chance in life, cuz I guess you weren't fit enough for your own country...
So long looser...

Acoco wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

So you've been living here since 1999, but register in March 2016 living Croatia,yeah right.

I actually first came in 95, went back, served in the army in Croatia/Bosnia.. and came back to Nam in 1999 indefinitely, but I already told you that, didn't I ..  and for you the registration date on expat.com is supposed to prove something  ? ... Never go full retard Colin, again you are going full retard.
You should praise Vietnam, for giving loser like you another chance in life, cuz I guess you weren't fit enough for your own country...
So long looser...

Oh dear how sad. Never mind.

Just one point..... when you served in the army in Croatia/ Bosnia, was it with a penile er, sorry, penal battalion?

Matt/colinoscapee don't waste your time with this Acoco knob...he is obviously a 'Walt' (Walter Mitty)...

Mate, I know what a Walt is, I'm a member of the Arrse website.

eodmatt wrote:

Just one point..... when you served in the army in Croatia/ Bosnia, was it with a penile er, sorry, penal battalion?

IFOR/SFOR Logistic, running trucks convoy between Ploce, Mostar and Sarajevo, bringing food and supply to the troops,and humanitarian relief to the locals.
And couple of times hauled uxo, landmines and ammo  at the Mostar base for the EOD techs to blow it off.

Acoco wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

So you've been living here since 1999, but register in March 2016 living Croatia,yeah right.

I actually first came in 95, went back, served in the army in Croatia/Bosnia.. and came back to Nam in 1999 indefinitely, but I already told you that, didn't I ..  and for you the registration date on expat.com is supposed to prove something  ? ... Never go full retard Colin, again you are going full retard.
You should praise Vietnam, for giving loser like you another chance in life, cuz I guess you weren't fit enough for your own country...
So long looser...

c

Abuse from you shows your lack of debating skills, so next time try a little harder.

Colinoscappee:  First let me agree with you that Acco is more positive about Vietnam than you and others are but consider that his apparent ability to speak Vietnamese must make the experience a lot smoother for him than for you.   From your own mouth: 

colinoscapee wrote:

I think the advantage that Dannydo has over many new business owners is that he is a Vietnamese and most probably speaks the language.

I also expect that as a VK born overseas, he might see VN a bit more positively than someone who feels stuck in VN or someone who had to flee to Malaysia in a boat.  I know several boat people but they still seem to love their country of origin.  I was wondering why you and Matt were so quick to jump on him but after some looking around, I found that your problems with Acco originate in another thread but revolve around similar issues.  I know I experienced both the good and the bad and I assume you have too.

colinoscapee wrote:

So you've been living here since 1999, but register in March 2016 living Croatia,yeah right.

This point of argument seems particularly strange to me as you yourself have said that you lived in Vietnam since you registered only two years ago on 27 April 2013 but apparently

colinoscapee wrote:

I lived in Saigon for 5 years, .....

have lived in VN a lot longer.  I have noticed several times in less contentious threads that people often fail to update both their expat path and the location tag to the right of their name.  To me this means little.  Can you ping his actual IP address and location?  I am sure the site administrators can but I don't see how you could, at least not without hacking the site.

Can't we accept that different expats have different experiences?

Yes we can. And we should be able to discuss matters in a mature manner. And when asked a question we should be able to answer the question honestly. That's what expat.com is about.

If you want to have a platform to attack other people for their honesty try mumsnet.com.

And incidentally it might just be a good idea for those who oppose the truth being told to work towards making improvements in the things highlighted as being wrong. After all you can hide your head in the sand but eventually no tourists at all will come here and that would be a shame on many fronts.

It never ceases to amaze me that some of you expats think you are highly above others here in this country. You are just a guest like most others in case you have forgotten. By the way, since you guys have lived here for so long why not put some time into building the community? I haven't heard anyone from here, those who frequent this forum and comment more than others, post anything about their charitable work for the community.

eodmatt wrote:

Yes we can. And we should be able to discuss matters in a mature manner. And when asked a question we should be able to answer the question honestly. That's what expat.com is about.

I never thought you were entirely negative, in fact you frequently make positive observations.  However you would have to search pretty hard to find something positive about Vietnam in some people's postings.  And then (from another thread) there is this guy:

Jimlove wrote:

Can see Matt and Yogi in a 69 - what a couple ... or maybe same same -- whatever ...

Us that know Vietnam is an a-hole still - just spread the Word and dont let these comrad-Gays that fiddle each other daily get in the way

Thigv, as usual you just pick the things that suit you, do a search on the poster in mention and you will see that he mentions various things he dislikes about Vietnam. The problem for me was his personal attacks, again you missed this, you are very selective that's for sure. You keep posting old mate as most of your posts from what I have read are totally misinformed and not very helpful at all. Thanks for adding to the debate.

Hypothalamus wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me that some of you expats think you are highly above others here in this country. You are just a guest like most others in case you have forgotten. By the way, since you guys have lived here for so long why not put some time into building the community? I haven't heard anyone from here, those who frequent this forum and comment more than others, post anything about their charitable work for the community.

Doing charitable work isn't about coming on here like you may do and flapping your gums about it. I support a family in Saigon who are poor, do work for the nuns of charity who care for the poor, also have done work for the AIDS clinic in Go Vap and the shelters for single mothers who have been discarded by their families so as to save face. Shall I go on, there are lots more, maybe you should learn to ask before shooting your big mouth off. I don't post about it on here so I'm sorry for not acting the way you would want us to.

So Hypothalamus, could you please tell us what things you are doing to help others, seeing as you have raised this topic.

colinoscapee wrote:

The problem for me was his personal attacks, again you missed this, you are very selective that's for sure.

Going back in the sequence, the first ad hominem attack that I see is #12

colinoscapee wrote:

You keep posting old mate as most of your posts from what I have read are totally misinformed and not very helpful at all. Thanks for adding to the debate.

Not in this thread, but I guess the people that have pushed the like button on my posts were mistaken.  I bear no ill will.  I do ask that people be more civil. Acco was not right in that respect but he was not the only one with an argumentative tone.  He just fell into your trap.

Unlike many of you I don't live here or consider this place my home. I put at least 10 grand into this country's economy in the past few times I visited this country. That's my contribution but I'm sure it's insignificant compared to your charitable work.

Thigv, you said about accepting expats difference of opinion, I don't see that. You seem to only agree with those that you feel some connection with. If you call my post about his registration abuse, you are one very sensitive guy.

The whole point of my pointing out his registration was that it says he is French and living in Crotia, on another thread he is Vietnamese/German living in Viet Nam since 1999. Therefore something didn't add up, maybe you missed that or chose to ignore it as usual.

colinoscapee wrote:

The whole point of my pointing out his registration was that it says he is French and living in Crotia, on another thread he is Vietnamese/German living in Viet Nam since 1999. Therefore something didn't add up, maybe you missed that or chose to ignore it as usual.

Well one thing is for sure, he/she/it is just an argumentative troll. I will henceforth ignore it.

Actually to give credit where it's due, he did give some good advice on some other threads.

See Thigv, I do acknowledge when someone actually posts a decent comment. Make sure you keep getting those likes, it must be like being on a high and getting pats on the back.

Hypothalamus wrote:

It never ceases to amaze me that some of you expats think you are highly above others here in this country. You are just a guest like most others in case you have forgotten. By the way, since you guys have lived here for so long why not put some time into building the community? I haven't heard anyone from here, those who frequent this forum and comment more than others, post anything about their charitable work for the community.

It never ceases to amaze me that people can draw such an opinion/conclusion out of thin air and on the basis of nothing. Let me remind you that those of us who do put something into building the community don't blow our own trumpets about it. We do what we do quietly and for the good of others. It would be very gratifying if people like you would get off your high horse and stop displaying your feelings of inferiority and do something to help those of us who are actualy doing things to help build the community.

Now, just to get the thread back on its rails: Questions were asked of the expats on here about their feelings and findings about the county, they having lived here. Some of the comments made by expats were explicit.

It would be more helpful to the debate as a whole if those comments and the reasons that they were made were discussed honestly along with peoples suggestions for improvements. Instead of people who can't accept the simple truth making abusive and deliberately abrasive comments.

colinoscapee wrote:

Actually to give credit where it's due, he did give some good advice on some other threads.

See Thigv, I do acknowledge when someone actually posts a decent comment. Make sure you keep getting those likes, it must be like being on a high and getting pats on the back.

Well alright then I will just ignore his balderdash.

Hypothalamus wrote:

Unlike many of you I don't live here or consider this place my home. I put at least 10 grand into this country's economy in the past few times I visited this country. That's my contribution but I'm sure it's insignificant compared to your charitable work.

10 grand???? Thats a lot of hookers! 

Vietnamese hookers just don't do it for me. Back to the original topic. My experience is things are always changing for the better. Lots of opportunities to make money here. You just need to spend money to make more money. That's the mantra at least in my case. Sometimes it seems unethical to do business with some individuals or companies that don't see the world the way you do but it's Vietnam. Sadly, I don't find it attractive enough to live here longer than a few months.

You sound just like my wife, who is totally business minded. Not to say that is wrong.

To be honest if it wasn't for my wife and her family I wouldn't live in Vietnam either. I quite like it here, but I also like it the ambience of other countries - the Solomon Islands for one.

Thailand is quite attractive to me and not because of the Thai ladies, but because north eastern Thailand is a very nice place to be based. Laos is not too bad but having lived there for a year already, I doubt that I could live there full time.

I might move over to Poland for a while, but my wife might find the winter climate too harsh. She fancies going to Germany and, having lived there for a number of years and speaking the language, we might well end up there at some stage.

Having owned a small business here I would be very hesitant to try again. What I found was locals way 100% , my way zero. It's not an easy enviroment, but some people have done quiet well here,not too many.

Speaking of charities, there is a sticky on one of the Vietnamese news websites asking for people's experience with doing charity work here. Many of the comments are negative due to the corrption from police and officals.