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What concern you the most to live and do business in Vietnam?

Contrasting values are necessary for Appreciation

..or as God said to Bender, if you are doing it right, nobody notices...

Thanks Tien for asking how you can help foreigners in Vietnam.
I realise you're probably just throwing the cards on the table, as it were, for some generic responses - and hence mine may be too specific, for which I apologise in advance!  There is a company in Hanoi which has ripped off my foreigner nephew by promising reconditioned Lambrettas but actually supplying an old Vespa with no brakes or lights.  Further, they promised free shipping (to South Africa, in his case), but that didn't happen so, as well as paying an outrageous price for something quite different and vastly inferior to what was promised, he also had to pay the not inconsiderable shipping costs before he could even open the container to find he hadn't been sent what he ordered! 
So my question is, what recourse does my nephew have for compensation from this company - and/or can I do something to help him achieve that while I'm here in Vietnam?

Dear sir,

I think you can send a complaint to Consumer protection portal - ministry of industry and trade, website: vca.gov.vn . If u have all proofs of the compliant failure, i think they can help u claim the cost.

Thanks a lot.

Thanks Tien - I never knew there was such a thing, so I'll definitely do that now as we have all the correspondence, bank receipts, photos, customs declarations, etc plus the company's website which makes promises it doesn't keep (including "guaranteed money back if not satisfied").  And thanks for replying so promptly - very much appreciated!

Dear Sir,

I hope u can make it. Vietnamese people are not used to this practice, all the time, they just complain and do nothing. Maybe the procedures make them feel uncomfortable.
Best regards,

What's happening is not rants or whining as suggested.  It proves the point of what you guys are dealing with.  If the guys don't care about sweeping garbage into the gutter or people drown in flood water and other stuff (the list is lengthy), but only care about their own pocket, then why would they care about making things easier for you to do business, live and work here?

(Quote: What's happening is not rants or whining as suggested.  It proves the point of what you guys are dealing with. (Unquote)

..which proves what..?     The relativity of reality?   (aka; get real) 

  (not)  Sorry, but...   The vocal minority only reveal the emptier the vessel the louder the banging sounds even as the silent majority watch and listen.  And learn.

..or (probably?) the universe is unfolding as it should.    So (some?) of your (Western?) values will be absorbed into a culture that has already learnt from their own history.   Never-ending wars.   

     At least (try to) open the door to your mind before opening the door to theirs

Good and bad everywhere, docwood - you must have learned that by now?  And I for one can't complain about Ms Tien's honourable intent - she's already made life much easier for me and my nephew, exactly as she offered at the start of this thread...............

Precisely       :top:

Just a word of caution for friendly expats. In the news recently there was a story about a 70 year old Vietnamese lady who went to Vung Tau on holiday. Whilst she was there she met a Thai lady who was also on holiday in VT. The two ladies got on well and went for walks and coffee together.

The day before the Vietnamese lady was due to leave Vung Tau for HCMC, the Thai lady asked her if she would take a present back to HCMC for a friend. The Vn lady agreed.

At the airport, the Vn lady was arrested and her baggage searched. Police and customs found the Thai lady's "present", which was a box of scented soap, in the Vn lady suitcase.

The tablets of soap were found to contain Heroin - over 2Kg of it.

The 70 year old Vn lady was executed by shooting a few days ago.

At her trial the judge said that it was normal for the court to be a little lenient with older people, but in her case the amount of Heroin she was carrying merited an automatic death sentence.

So if a new acquaintance asks you to carry something somewhere for a friend, its safer to say no.

Moving closer to home we were in the Metro supermarket one day last month and  whilst I am normally very aware of my surroundings, on this occasion I was suffering the lingering after effects of flu so wasn't my normal 100%.

My wife alerted me to two women of about 30 years of age, who she said had been following us. I kept an eye on them and deliberately made some changes of course through the maze of shelves and a few moments later the two women showed up behind us on each occasion. I then walked the whole length of METRO back to the entrance with my trolly and turned to walk back through the maze of shelves towards the veg section (at the far other end of the supermarket) and lo and behold the two women were behind me at a discrete distance within 30 seconds.

My wife grabbed a member of METRO staff and asked him to call security, whereupon the two women departed smartly after talking a picture of us with a mobile phone. Security could find no trace of the women after that.

Last week in the same supermarket - now not suffering the effects of flu - I became aware that a young guy, about 26 years old, wearing a scruffy grey T shirt, blue long shorts, trainers and a baseball cap with a long peak was standing too close to me in the bread section. I moved away  from him but a few minutes later he was back, ostensibly looking at products on a shelf but edging closer to me. I moved on to the cheese and butter section and a few moments later he was behind me again. I moved back to the meat section and moments later he was standing very close behind me.

So I turned and told him to keep his distance. He wouldn't look me in the eye and when my wife returned from buying cosmetic things a few seconds later and asked him in Vietnamese what he was doing, he was gone. Not running but moving fast for the exit.

Again, security couldn't find him in the store.

So this is really just a word of caution to keep your wits about you when out and about in public places.

So this is really just a word of caution to keep your wits about you when out and about in public places.

...which applies to every country in the world, of course!

Matt, whilst feeling sorry for the old woman, did you know that most drug mules between Viet Nam and Australia are Vietnamese Australians. Her story didn't add up, and of course she can't tell them where this Thai lady is now.

Also, the woman wasn't shot as they use lethal injection now and she has 15 days to appeal, not sure why it is saying she has been executed already.

linhmartin :

So this is really just a word of caution to keep your wits about you when out and about in public places.

...which applies to every country in the world, of course!

Indeed, your understanding of a most complex post is correct. It was a word of caution to keep your wits about you when out and about in public places. Which in fact is what I said in the original post.

..... which doesn't apply in the same way in those countries that have abolished the death penalty for stupidity. Over a hundred of them.

Sometimes we ex-pats forget that we don't live under the same laws in Vietnam as we do at home.

colinoscapee :

Also, the woman wasn't shot as they use lethal injection now and she has 15 days to appeal, not sure why it is saying she has been executed already.

I tasked my wife with your comment and she said "well thats what it said in t6he news report I read" Whether she was shot or received a lethal injection is a bit of a moot point since either way, she ends up dead. My wife also told me that in Vietnam you can choose the method - bullet or injection, whether or not that is accurate I don't know. She also said that after sentence is passed you can elect to have the it carried out immediately.

All of which misses the real point I was aiming to get across which was that, in Vietnam they don't f*ck about if you get caught with drugs, so don't expect to spend a couple of years in jail and then get out to write about it.

That is all.

eodmatt :
linhmartin :

So this is really just a word of caution to keep your wits about you when out and about in public places.

Sometimes we ex-pats forget that we don't live under the same laws in Vietnam as we do at home.

..or is it that the more obvious something is, the easier it is to ignore..?   

                                    ..or as Elie Wiesel said;   'When will they ever learn?'        Never

colinoscapee :

Matt, whilst feeling sorry for the old woman, did you know that most drug mules between Viet Nam and Australia are Vietnamese Australians. Her story didn't add up, and of course she can't tell them where this Thai lady is now.

I made and make no comment with regard to my feelings for the old woman. It was just a reminder that age is no barrier to the full weight of the law in Vietnam. Frankly, anyone who gets involved in illicit drug trading is a fool in my book. And of course the Thai lady - if there was one - had done her job in getting a Mule to do the dirty work for her and would hardly be likely to stick around once she had handed over the cargo.

eodmatt :
colinoscapee :

Also, the woman wasn't shot as they use lethal injection now and she has 15 days to appeal, not sure why it is saying she has been executed already.

I tasked my wife with your comment and she said "well thats what it said in t6he news report I read" Whether she was shot or received a lethal injection is a bit of a moot point since either way, she ends up dead. My wife also told me that in Vietnam you can choose the method - bullet or injection, whether or not that is accurate I don't know. She also said that after sentence is passed you can elect to have the it carried out immediately.

All of which misses the real point I was aiming to get across which was that, in Vietnam they don't f*ck about if you get caught with drugs, so don't expect to spend a couple of years in jail and then get out to write about it.

That is all.

She was only convicted on Thursday last week, that's a damn quick execution.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-30/a … ng/7558432

The woman was caught TWO YEARS AGO and, to quote Oz Foreign Affairs: "According to Vietnamese law, the accused can appeal the sentence so there is still some way to go before this legal process concludes."  Amen to that - que sera, sera.
But why is this particular issue being discussed on this thread, anyway?  A death sentence for drug running is certainly not what concerns me most about living and doing business in Vietnam! (see subject reminder above).  And I certainly don't need reminding that the laws in Vietnam are different to those downunder - does anyone really need that? (ok, maybe there are some who do - but I doubt that any of them will be reading this thread...).

If I was her I would've chosen for the Firing Squad Option...there is always a chance that they would miss... :|

linhmartin :

The woman was caught TWO YEARS AGO and, to quote Oz Foreign Affairs: "According to Vietnamese law, the accused can appeal the sentence so there is still some way to go before this legal process concludes."  Amen to that - que sera, sera.
But why is this particular issue being discussed on this thread, anyway?  A death sentence for drug running is certainly not what concerns me most about living and doing business in Vietnam! (see subject reminder above).  And I certainly don't need reminding that the laws in Vietnam are different to those downunder - does anyone really need that? (ok, maybe there are some who do - but I doubt that any of them will be reading this thread...).

It is a matter of general interest to people living and working in Vietnam, not all of whom read (or can read) the local news. If it doesn't concern you then fine. Jog on by.

Hmmm - so in your opinion there are people who can't read the news in Vietnam (which is, of course, promulgated in many languages including English) but they are able to read your "general interest" postings on this thread.  It's an interesting theory, to say the least...
Anyway, I must leave you to your fantasy world - I'm the dot in front of that dust cloud on your horizon.......

linhmartin :

Hmmm - so in your opinion there are people who can't read the news in Vietnam (which is, of course, promulgated in many languages including English) but they are able to read your "general interest" postings on this thread.  It's an interesting theory, to say the least...
Anyway, I must leave you to your fantasy world - I'm the dot in front of that dust cloud on your horizon.......

Yes there are people who don't read the news in Vietnam whether or not promulgated in many languages. There are people who are transient here. People who are thinking about coming here. And a lot more people than you might imagine read websites such as this, who don't bother reading the news here, whether promulgated in Vietnamese, English or your own language, Martian.

Have fun being a dot in front of a dust cloud. At least people will be able to spot the singularity which is your only synapse and which is polluting their world with dust and nonsense.

I think most travelers would read a blog before they actually read the local news. If they did they would have known about the scam artist that targets foreigners in D1 and D2. I know that before living in Viet Nam I read blogs and forums way before reading the local newspapers.

eodmatt, you're a self-opinionated narcissist - which is, of course, your choice.  But please don't be surprised to cop some flak whenever you highjack other people's threads with your inaccurate, alarmist "warnings"!
A young VN lady kindly started this thread with an offer to help foreigners living and working in Vietnam - she didn't invite you to take over with your Daily Bugle rubbish!
Go and start your own thread if you can't live without seeing your "advice" in print!

colinoscapee - I agree that travellers mostly research blogs (cf mainstream media), but the lady who started this thread was clearly appealing to expats (as does the name expat.com), who are usually people that live and work in a country other than their country of origin, ie not really the same as "travellers", and usually much more knowledgeable about day to day issues involved with living and working in the country of their choice.  Of course there's a place for (accurate) advice for expats on this site - but it's arguably not on this particular thread imo (please see comments above to the self-appointed "advice columnist").

Does a thread or conversation ever stay on topic. Not sure why you are getting so upset over this thread, anyway, to each his own. It takes more energy to be angry than it does to be happy.

Peace, Love and Moonbeams.

Handbags ready!!!! come on ladies...stop it now! ........ :D

Hey, c'mon Col.

Peace, Love & Moonbeams don't motivate.  E=motion does.

Hence the need for the fun factor.    (We) off-topic Turkeys 'just do it'

Sure, the pearls of Wisdom are rare but the Alpha males make up for it
in entertainment value.
   
  Although the original (Latin) meaning of 'sin' was to 'miss the point'.

..lotsa sinners here...

Apologies to all (except the know-it-all, of course). The ridiculous way he jumped in and highjacked this thread with his version of War and Peace (and the dangers of shopping at Metro...) got right up my nose.   And I don't like being insulted and/or called a "martian" by someone who thinks he's God's answer to google!

So now that the air has been cleared can we all get back on topic please.

Damn Stumpy!  I just bought some popcorn and waiting for the next lot of posts.

stumpy :

So now that the air has been cleared can we all get back on topic please.

That's the way Mr Stumpy,  about time for a bit of decorum on the forum. 😀

Now that we're back on topic Yogi can add his two dong worth.   You've got to be careful with a Vietnamese guys interpretation of " reconditioned" motor cycle.     To them that means you can virtually send anything that resembles a mode of transport with two wheels.

Yogi recalls recently ordering a reconditioned Vespa and all they sent me was a couple of rusty brake hubs and a few lights bulbs........

Christ knows what happened to the rest of it.

Grrrrrrrr

When the feathers were flying...

I remember thinking,  'where are you when we need you'  Yogi..?

..but now?  The fun has gone.

And Yogi has such a long history (his story) of being dudded in so many ways..?

Sorry mate.    Your glow has gone.   Could Boo Boo be Snarky..?

..sometimes..?

..but seriously, the Viet. people have received such a bad wrap from Westerners here I intend to test their integrity...    by travelling by train, my motorbike and me (to an undisclosed destination)                             ..lest Big Brother.Com or even the CIA are watching...   

(Forgive my paranoia.   It comes in very handy when others intend harm...)

And (if?) when I return I will give an accurate report on the state of the nation.

No less.

#6  :mad:   :/   :sosad:    :dumbom: Had coffee with a mate this morning and he seemed prefixed on the number of aboriginals in Armahole ( Armadale) he made an interesting point, in that it's the way Europeans talk about them that causes them (generalisation) to behave the way they do, as second class citizens (see https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=we … WkLmxUdjK, " they think we're bad". I'd like to go back in time to see if things were same same or different pre colon-isation ( :) )

Hi again Ms Tien
For the sake of anyone else who may be trying to lodge a legal complaint, I'd just like to say "Thanks" once again for putting me onto the Department of Industry and Trade, Consumer Protection portal  website: vca.gov.vn
I tried to lodge a complaint on behalf of my nephew in South Africa but the "verification code" kept failing so I gave up and emailed them instead.  That was six days ago and I was beginning to give up hope when I received a phone call today from an English-speaking Vietnamese lawyer calling from the department to apologise for the verification code failing due to "website maintenance" - but she assured me that it's now working again, hence the phone call.  The lawyer also confirmed that although the site accepts input from people in Vietnam only, they can (as in my case) file on behalf of others, especially close family.
And it gets better - my wife and I are considering legal action against a 5-star condo hotel in Nha Trang because they want to change our contract to allow them to pay our interest upto three months late every year without penalty - which we believe is unreasonable (and would obviously cost us a lot of money if they were allowed to proceed).  The consumer protection portal lawyer said they can't act on our behalf in that particular matter because although my wife and I are "consumers" - the purchase of a condo hotel room is for commercial gain and hence not their department.  However, she did give me some very good advice on how to proceed - so thanks again, Ms Tien, you've certainly helped my wife and I, and possibly even our relatives in South Africa!

Dear Sir,

I am glad to hear good news from you. I hope your problems will be solved soon.
Best regards,
Tien

linhmartin :

..again, Ms Tien...
..did give me some very good advice on how to proceed - so thanks again, Ms Tien, you've certainly helped my wife and I, and possibly even our relatives in South Africa!

Yet another successful resolution!

We (the silent majority) wish to thank you too, Ms Tien.

You have our vote!!                :top:

Hey Marky, when your a Jet, your a Jet.....

HAHAHA...this is hilarious!

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