Bordeaux/bordo mixture/spray for fruit trees

Ask for : Bordói por.

klsallee wrote:

Ask for : Bordói por.

Thanks.  We asked at a local place and they came up with this at an agricultural suppliers:

Bordoile

fluffy2560 wrote:

Bordoile

Yes, that is the same chemical, just in the ready mix liquid form ("por" can be translated as "powder" in Hungarian).

The pre-mixed liquid is more expensive, but easier to measure out (since it is by volume rather than by weight). And if you have only a few trees to spray, the ready mix liquid is probably the better option -- having to deal with the powder form is not worth the minor cost savings.

klsallee wrote:

...... And if you have only a few trees to spray, the ready mix liquid is probably the better option -- having to deal with the powder form is not worth the minor cost savings.

We have just 4 trees.

One of them (peach) is badly infected with fungi, unlikely to be saved.  Another one (cherry) has a kind of canker oozing sap.   I can only try to save them but it's looking pretty fatal as the canker is on the lower branches.  According to Herr Google,  infection on the main trunk is likely to be fatal.  I think if the trees come down, the branches will have to be burnt.  It's a last ditch attempt to keep them alive as they were good productive trees.

Two other trees (pear and  apple) further away do not look too bad and are not very obviously infected as far as I can see.

The bordo mix we have is liquid form 3-40 ml per 10 litres water in a bucket, then spray it on.

Cherry canker: If bacteria is the cause, then Bordeaux spray will have no effect on this bacteria. But Bordeaux may prevent secondary fungus in the damaged bark. Not much one can do directly for bacterial infection except antibiotics. But can help the tree indirectly to fight the infection by reducing stress: keeping it watered and giving it fertilizer -- might last several more years then. But also, what looks like a canker may also be insect damage. That requires different treatment -- mostly again by reducing the tree's stress load, add water and fertilizer, of apply insecticides.

Peach: If it is leaf roll fungus (leaves look swollen and red) then Bordeaux will not help those leaves now. But spraying Bordeaux (after the current rains are over) will help the new leaves that will form after these infected leaves fall off. Wet the entire tree with Bordeaux mix spray. To prevent infection next year, wet down the entire tree bark with Bordeaux after the leaves fall off in the fall. And to be really sure, again wet the entire bark with Bordeaux in the spring when the buds start to swell in the spring (but before bud break).

I think they are "dead trees walking" so to speak. 

I have no idea exactly what is wrong with the cherry tree. Just canker of some type.  My research suggests Bordeaux mix will work to a degree on a bacterial infection or it will do nothing.  It could not make it worse.   There are plenty of leaves and it's very bushy still.  The large canker is however, on the main stem.  So research says, cut the thing out as best as possible and spray.  I thought I could get most of it out using the end of my chainsaw but it would be an open wound.

The peach is in serious trouble with shell like fungus forming on the branches invasive (I suppose) to the sap and it's killing its host.  Some branches look like they are already dying with few leaves appearing and growing shoots becoming brown and dead.  It's spreading from the main stem and is likely to be fatal the way it's going downhill fast. This is last chance saloon for it. 

The weather (as if I had to tell anyone) has been atrociously damp, I've been waiting for an opportunity to spray it in drier conditions.  Maybe I'll get a window of opportunity this week.

I have not cut out a canker. Can give not direct advise. I have read the same, but I guess it will be a toss up if the surgery causes more problems then it cures. I doubt if one can get all the bacteria out, and the problem may just reoccur.

I have had to cut down sick pear, cherry and walnut. I have to cut down another walnut this year.

I used the chain saw end to grind out the cherry tree's canker.  I think I made a fairly good neat job of it.  Then I gave it a good soaking in bordeau mix.  Time will tell.

The peach is really sick. I chopped off the dead branches as they looked like they'd had it.  Some branches I could not reach.  I noticed it's also oozing in a few places.   Under the surface of the bark and in some exposed places, it's got a grey coloured sub-surface.  I think it could be the same disease as on the cherry but has a different manifestation.  I suspect it's a lost cause.  If it shows any further decline, it'll just have to come out.  Shame because it was very productive.

BTW, online advice is to burn or dispose of the infected waste to avoid transferring to other environments and cause more damage.  Disposing is difficult, burn is easier. Around here, we have restrictions on burning. Mrs Fluffy says that as it's May, it might be possible to burn garden waste on Saturdays between 9-12.  I believe this varies by area but I've not been able to find any indication of when we can do it. 

Does anyone know if there's a Hungarian country wide burning schedule?

Burning the cuttings is the best, if you can.

But many stone fruit (cherries and peach) diseases are not usually transmitted to other fruits (apple and pear). So since both your stone fruit trees are already infected there is little risk of causing more damage from waiting to burn the cuttings. Just pile them away from all the trees until you can burn. Besides, can not gather up all the saw dust to burn, which is probably the biggest source of possible infection since it can be more easily blown by the wind than a log or tree branch.

The chain saw blade used on the cherry tree and sheers used to prune the pear also have the bacteria/fungus on the blades. Those should, ideally, also be disinfected (bleach works, but I often just dip the blades of sheers in boiling water).

klsallee wrote:

Burning the cuttings is the best, if you can.....

The chain saw blade used on the cherry tree and sheers used to prune the pear also have the bacteria/fungus on the blades. Those should, ideally, also be disinfected (bleach works, but I often just dip the blades of sheers in boiling water).

Mrs Fluffy has found out during May it's Fire on Fridays between 0800 and 2100 and Scorching on Saturdays 09-12.  I'll burn it on Friday.

Good point on disinfecting the chainsaw. I usually use it to chop up wood for the fire or occasional construction so not that important for gardening. But fair point on using some bleach. I'll give it a dip. Maybe I can just also spray it with Bordeau (strangely classified as "organic"). 

If I've made a difference to the tree I'll probably know within a couple of weeks.  Feel like it's watching over a patient in an ICU.

If it has to come out, it won't be so bad other than getting the stump out. New peach trees only cost about HUF 1500 but this one is a good 10ft tall and must be 30 years old. And new ones unlikely to be productive for a couple of years.

fluffy2560 wrote:

If it has to come out, it won't be so bad other than getting the stump out.

In the USA, for that I use to rent a stump grinder. I have never, and I repeat never, been able to get one in Hungary..... 

My farmer grandfather had a more entertaining solution --- basically he would make a pipe bomb to blow the stump apart. But that would probably be frowned upon in Europe....

fluffy2560 wrote:

New peach trees only cost about HUF 1500 but this one is a good 10ft tall and must be 30 years old. And new ones unlikely to be productive for a couple of years.

The bigger you can get them the better -- fewer years wait for fruit.

Our old walnut tree I will be cutting out is rather large. The wife wants a Magnolia as a replacement and wants it to bloom soon. So I said the same: get the biggest you can find. She found one (darn it) --- 15,000 HUF. I guess I should keep my mouth shut If I do not want to open the wallet that much. 

klsallee wrote:

..In the USA, for that I use to rent a stump grinder. I have never, and I repeat never, been able to get one in Hungary..... 

My farmer grandfather had a more entertaining solution --- basically he would make a pipe bomb to blow the stump apart. But that would probably be frowned upon in Europe....

I've also looked to rent a stump grinder and not found one anywhere. 

I had to get a guy with a small digging machine in to get the thing out.  Came out in one lump after a lot of tugging.   Luckily I could get the machine into the space enough to do the work. 

I would have quite liked to blow it up for fun but it's a bit close to the house.

Thank you for a very educational discussion!

Vicces1 wrote:

Thank you for a very educational discussion!

We at the expat.com forum not only endeavor to be educational, but entertaining.

So, here is a video of a backhoe ripping out a stump:

https://vimeo.com/62689283